Quoting ben175 (Reply 145): Spirit of Australia? Pfft. I think they're handing that title over to Virgin!

Is the Spirit of Australia endorsing a company with a majority foreign ownership? I honestly don't know as I'm not from your neck of the woods.

What the hell is going on? Back in 2005 Qantas was one of the most profitable airlines and it was doing sooooooooooooooooooooooo well. What has been going on?

Bring Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson back. What's up with Peter Gregg now?

Quoting EK413 (Reply 144): I agree NZ is a very lean well run operation is because they operate aircraft & crew with ground handling, engineering, catering outsourced?

NZ has it's ground handling in-house in New Zealand but outsources it overseas like most airlines do. They have their own engineering department (ANZES) who also do design work for aircraft interiors. They also do mx for airlines like VA and HA. Some of their engine mx has been moved off-shore in a power-by-the-hour arrangement.
They did get rid of their catering several years ago. Catering is the sort of thing that doesn't need to be in-house so long as quality control is in place. Even the likes of LH have made their catering a separate company (LSG) without the legacy costs associated with being integrated into an airline.

I don't think it has been mentioned in any of the previous public presentations, however Qantas has confirmed it will suspend its Sydney - Mount Hotham services operated with QantasLink Dash-8s due to commercial performance. I can't seem to see any availability for these flights for the upcoming ski season, so it seems the 2013 season was the last.

Also confirmed is that the new lounge in Brisbane will be at the Domestic Terminal.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 151): Bring Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson back

WTF. This problem started on their watch. AJ is the poor muppet who is having to deal with it all. The issues QF faces did NOT start on his watch.
Would be the same as blaming AJ for QF not purchasing the 777......

Just got an email from QFF:
"Today Qantas announced a range of measures to take $2 billion in costs out of the business over three years, including through deferring and selling aircraft, and significant job reductions.

I have received many questions both directly and through social media and wanted to reach out to you personally as a valued member.

These are tough but necessary measures to ensure a strong future for Qantas and our nearly 10 million Qantas Frequent Flyer members."..... and more justification of actions and what QFF will be doing this year to help me...

Quoting sydscott (Reply 142): 4. Jetstar International. The decline in Jetstar International is worrying and needs to be addressed pronto. Jetstar International should be a growth engine for the group not in decline already!

Hopefully the 787s will assist there, but the competition is fierce between the regional LCCs and JQi prices are often not that competitive with Scoot and AirAsiaX. I've noticed that Japan fares, where flying with those two others would be a truly painful experience from the East Coast, have risen substantially and are often comparable to QF/JA mainline, if not sometimes more expensive.

ABC's 7.30 had an interview with Alan Joyce (not up yet). A few problems giving straight answers, especially about government demands and keeping jobs local in return for a debt guarantee. I found it a bit rich interviewing John Sharp, deputy CEO of REX about keeping things in Australia, considering their ownership structure.

Quoting timtam (Reply 149): Exactly. Perth cannot expect Qantas to keep flying international routes out of Perth if they dont fly the airline. Perth has no rights to Qantas International flights.

.....but if your schedule is rubbish and your competitors do it better then it is no surprise the customers avoid you.

SQ and CX are now the defacto international airlines of PER and ADL. They can't believe their luck.

Can someone please wake me up when Qantas proposes something that it wasn't already going to do?

All this looks awfully premeditated to me.

But "more of the same." Yeah, that's going to work.......

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 131): As for Jetstar MEL-NRT only a matter of time before it goes...

Its only a fresh route... I hope JQ all the best with it.

Quoting sydscott (Reply 135): I'd say they will make that permanent while HK can continue to be operated by the A380 5 days a week and the A330 twice a week.

Would that cause any issues around product inconsistencies? It just seems strange to operate a 4 class vehicle 5 times a week, and a 2 class the other 2. I would think a route like HKG would at least require a daily premium economy offering. Not too sure about a daily First class though.  

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 141): QF have to show measurable improvement over the next 12 months. They can't keep going to the market saying "Give us more time". They are running seriously low on goodwill.

Well said! Completely agree...

I was not expecting PER-SIN to go. With the 767s going to be retired by 2015, will Honolulu go A333 or will QF give that over to JQ?
With the 787's being defered, will QF have enough aircraft to cover the rest of the 767's being retired?

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 152): NZ has it's ground handling in-house in New Zealand but outsources it overseas like most airlines do. They have their own engineering department (ANZES) who also do design work for aircraft interiors. They also do mx for airlines like VA and HA. Some of their engine mx has been moved off-shore in a power-by-the-hour arrangement. They did get rid of their catering several years ago. Catering is the sort of thing that doesn't need to be in-house so long as quality control is in place. Even the likes of LH have made their catering a separate company (LSG) without the legacy costs associated with being integrated into an airline.

One of the proposals to save the Avalon Maintenance facilities prior to closer announcement was to provide maintenance for foreign carriers. Another one worth noting is the fact LH LSG catering Group has become a global cater established throughout the world. Would be interesting to know how profitable LSG is as a separate identity.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 151): Bring Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson back. What's up with Peter Gregg now?

Who are you kidding? Geoff Dixon & Margaret Jackson departure was a blessing in the sky and they departed laughing all the way to the bank. No thanks! Had GD done the right thing when he was managing QF probably the carrier wouldn't be in the mess it's in today! Does this company ring any bells "Texas Pacific Group" . Qantas wouldn't exist today if the buyout B#llSh*t went ahead.

Quoting qfflyer (Reply 154): WTF. This problem started on their watch. AJ is the poor muppet who is having to deal with it all. The issues QF faces did NOT start on his watch. Would be the same as blaming AJ for QF not purchasing the 777...

     

EK413

I know Qantas are facing issues with over capacity, competitors and costs etc etc... but out of interest, how damaging is the messages from Qantas HQ in recent years about their own sustainability? I feel like they do create a lot of doubt about their own future. Yes, they have valid points, but how much noise is too much noise? Doesn't this play a role in their performance?...

I also really think they need a "proper hardcore" PR team to really smash out some positive messages about both QF and JQ. I reckon Ryanairguru would ace that role!!?   #fightingspirit


Also,

Totally off topic, but going to ask it anyway... With the 767's heading out next year, do you guys think Qantas will switch the 330's to HNL, or ditch HNL all together on QF metal?

Quoting EK413 (Reply 147): take it you selected QF due to convenience of baggage being checked in from PER to HNL? Hopefully you'll continue to fly QF, and I know PER-SIN route being dropped is a kick in the guts

No, usually we fly JQ in StarClass (to avoid the ludacris $9,000 return fares QF pump out on the route in July) but I managed to score a companion fare this time so we went with QF.

Quoting timtam (Reply 149): Exactly. Perth cannot expect Qantas to keep flying international routes out of Perth if they dont fly the airline. Perth has no rights to Qantas International flights.

Who says nobody flies the route? I've heard it does very well.

The reason nobody flies Qantas out of WA anymore is because their reputation is pretty much equal to a lump of sh*t, to put it bluntly. The media is HARSH on the company over here - and they have every right to be. QF used to offer direct routes to SIN, HKG, DPS, CGK and NRT only 5 or so years ago. We now have NOTHING. The general opinion on Qantas in Perth is that they've lost the plot.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 157): .....but if your schedule is rubbish and your competitors do it better then it is no surprise the customers avoid you. SQ and CX are now the defacto international airlines of PER and ADL. They can't believe their luck.

Exactly. Oh well, SQ and CX are far superior anyway. Hopefully this leads to an increase in frequency by other airlines. As someone mentioned, it would be good to see EK re-route on of the DXB services via SIN so QF atleast has a codeshare on the route.

Which brings me to another question - what happens to the codeshares on QF 77? I believe 9W, MU, JL, BA and AY codeshare on this flight.

[Edited 2014-02-27 03:11:07]

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 160): will Honolulu go A333 or will QF give that over to JQ?

It was lost in the midst of things; but it will be operated by an A330.. A332 is what I'd expect.

Quoting Airniugini (Reply 162): Totally off topic, but going to ask it anyway... With the 767's heading out next year, do you guys think Qantas will switch the 330's to HNL, or ditch HNL all together on QF metal?

I highly doubt it! The B763 fleet will be retired by Q3 FY2015. QF will eventually upgauge the route to A330 equipment. (A330-300's have made an appearance on the route during peak periods.)

EK413

IMHO QF are suffering from similar issues to former State run companies around the globe, they have under invested in the mid to long term past, they suffer from middle management bloat and legacy staff contracts and pensions that drag their costs sky high.

Its a painful re-construction that has been done a thousand times over, just QR are not only hit by the FSRC cost increase, but the recent arrival of domestic competition and the mass increase in SE Asian capacity.

The 5000 cuts will hopefully be middle management saving much of the front line staff, while cutting average staff costs and maintaining capabilities.
The re-tooling by getting rid of the 2 generation old aircraft (734s, 744s and 767s) should produce a rapid decrease in CASM although there will be an associated ASM decrease, this will increase yield and load factors, while also allowing the decrease in the associated maintenance costs for the ageing fleet.

Deferrals of the new generation aircraft, allows them to avoid the costly cancellation penalties and await credit rating approvals before securing finance to cover the purchase of the 787 and A380 options that hey are going to need to replace the already 1 gen old aircraft they will then be operating.

from what I see here from a business strategy point of view there seems to be not a lot wrong with what the current board are doing, so I see no reason to call for their heads.

the process would be quicker if the QSA restrictions were lifted to allow them to raise capital from equity sales to large foreign investment funds. Also the unions won't be helping too much.

Enviable   

Quoting a36001 (Reply 96):

Add the ALAE's Steve Purvinas to that, seriously a total embarrassment & yes a really great way to protect jobs - Not!

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 100):

Oh i don't know, I will be keeping my travel plans firmly with QF, they serve my travel needs best. Plus have many ex AN people at QF that I know and I'm happy to support them when I fly.

BZF

They never said anything about the 767 freighters will they stay or will they to get retired?

Quoting ben175 (Reply 163): QF used to offer direct routes to SIN, HKG, DPS, CGK and NRT only 5 or so years ago. We now have NOTHING. The general opinion on Qantas in Perth is that they've lost the plot.

Qantas has slowly been giving away Perth to the competition over the last couple of years. I didnt think QF would give away Perth-Singapore. A city on its own like Perth is you would think would have so much potental for QF as an international gateway for the Western part of Australia.

I can see any new EBA stripping out any extra superannuation benefits QF employees get above the standard 9% the rest of us (mostly) get.

Isn't it interesting that corporates like the Flight Centre Group are growing and expanding and one of the airlines they sell is going backwards. Possibly good job opportunities for QF employees who take a package / forced redundancy right there.

I noted on the QF media release the retiming of MEL-DXB-LHR-DXB-MEL will result in a frame being freed up and they mention they'll look for opportunities to place it elsewhere. Ride 'em cowboy Texas (DFW) or more HKG?

Quoting ben175 (Reply 163): QF used to offer direct routes to SIN, HKG, DPS, CGK and NRT only 5 or so years ago.

Yes QF also used to serve MEX and THR. Times change, competitors change, and with that the landscape changes. Routes from PER have not been profitable and so they have gradually gone. Did you want QF to keep serving these unprofitable routes just to make the people of WA happy?

Quoting United Airline (Reply 151): Qantas was one of the most profitable airlines and it was doing sooooooooooooooooooooooo well. What has been going on? Bring Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson back.

The thing that has been going on my friend is that Geoff Dixon wasted all those golden post-AN years of high profits and lots of cash without doing any of the heavy-lifting that was required to bring QF's long term cost base down. He and his team are the main culprits for all of QF's current faults.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 168): A city on its own like Perth is you would think would have so much potental for QF as an international gateway

Trouble is, Flyingsottsman, is that although Western Australia has about 30% of the Australian land area, its population isn't much over 2M. people - under 10% of the national figure. Perth is a super place to visit, but in tourism terms, once you're away from the coast, most of the rest of the place is 'near-desert.'

None of us can 'have it both ways.' We can't, on the face of it, demand that Qantas 'returns to profit ASAP,' while at the same time requiring it to fly numerous 2,500-plus-mile half-full trips to and from Perth?

Quoting tayser (Reply 169): I noted on the QF media release the retiming of MEL-DXB-LHR-DXB-MEL will result in a frame being freed up and they mention they'll look for opportunities to place it elsewhere. Ride 'em cowboy Texas (DFW) or more HKG?

Hong Kong is more likely, with the need for two planes for DFW its doubtful the earlier LHR departure would free up enough A380 capacity.

Who will grab the 8 earlier A380 production slots now that QF will defer?

Obviously QF can't compete with the three SQ flights PER/SIN that include 2 X 330 and 1X 772.
SQ also fly 3 X 330 BNE/SIN which must hurt QF as well. Whichever SQ BNE flight I choose, it is always full.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 173): Hong Kong is more likely, with the need for two planes for DFW its doubtful the earlier LHR departure would free up enough A380 capacity.

from the schedule QF9/10 spends 18hrs 5mins on the ground at LHR if it is retimed to minimum turn round, we are looking at about 16 hrs of schedule time minus 2 turn-arounds give you 12hrs flying time which is not enough to do SIN and back from MEL

From memory the A380s were deferred already to 2 (was it this year) and the final batch around 2020
does this now mean that only the next 2 deliveries are deferred to be in line with the 2020 batch or that the entire remaining order has been pushed back even further?

There is no way Qantas can every match EK's costs to London unless some major changes were to happen. Flight Crew would have to be paid less and what they got was tax free. Qantas receives the tax benefits that EK gets. All the other benefits of endless Terminal and Airport improvements not paid via an AIF. When you own up and downstream companies that also benefit, you can spread profits around. If each one can afford to charge "market prices" but be at the very bottom of the market, those numbers add up considerably.

One thing that must be doing OK, is the 747 freighter flying.

Just announced they extended leases on pair of Atlas 744F.

Atlas Air and Qantas Extend ACMI Relationship
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/atlas-...-qantas-extend-acmi-131800172.html

=

Quoting trent1000 (Reply 174): Obviously QF can't compete with the three SQ flights PER/SIN that include 2 X 330 and 1X 772. SQ also fly 3 X 330 BNE/SIN which must hurt QF as well. Whichever SQ BNE flight I choose, it is always full.

SQ is 4 daily. Scoot is 5 weekly. Tiger is 12 weekly. Just massacres QF on every segment of the market.

Disappointed, 'ouch', but not surpurising given Australia is 'end of the road' on kangeroo route with very little feed both ends. IMHO, there are few things Qantas Int needs to do:

SCL-Can be move eariler so it could connect with most inbound Asian flights, this is one area few competitors had do well Asia-S.America, by transfer from Asia, it might boost load and profitability (though return leg would be more difficult to move eariler).

Start second frequency to HKG/SIN from SYD, last time I want to fly with them from HKG to NZ and back the return journey I have to fly at 6:30 from AKL, which means either very expensive non public transport to the airport or I slept in the airport for the night, with VS now gone, are there any more room for the second flight, one of the place that can feed the network, is New Zealand (and maybe Pacific Islands)

Jetstar MEL/SIN needs to be timed better, currently, you run the flight two hours from each other, if the JQ flight were instead depart from MEL midnight and arrive early morning in Singapore, in time to feed the morning JQ departures from SIN, it would help to feed both side, the 330 then could do longhaul like NRT (link another Jetstar base) or Beijing like it does now.

The cut to 744 fleet are wise, with some changing with groundtime in DFW SYD-JNB-SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD could be done with three aircrafts, leaving you with 2 for BNE/LAX 2 for QF107/108 1 for SCL (with room for daily SCL)

I don't see the need for 2 388 to HKG, most likely the released A380 could be used for another flight (maybe MEL-LAX few days a week) they need to think about more points in Asia once profitability is achieved and use MH to feed

They need 789 to save them $ ASAP, despite they might need better credit rating to do so.

Domestic, it should be frequency and yield before everything else, J* is your bottom feeder, though not much comment beyond (I have only been here once)

It is sad to see it did so well a decade ago with massive operation in SIN (Third biggest operator) from points in Aus to many points around Asia and now being hammered by low cost carriers.

Jetstar, the long haul needs to be better known, currently, it is little known outside Aus and Sin, and stop thinking about HK, the local system are there to protect local carriers and Airport (to control the influx of seats, yield and free it from any real competition) Sin is different as it is more of a governmental policy to improve access to increase tourism from the region, Hong Kong lives on and addicted to mainland visitors (esp day trippers). Just my thought.

Kev

Quoting B-HOP (Reply 180):

QF do run 2 services to Singapore.
SIN has been flagged as one one of one of the issues for international with overcapacity on the route.

So QF domestic is less profitable than before, but profitable nonetheless. Meanwhile QF international is increasingly unprofitable.

So all the fuss against Virgin and its ownership structure, the 65% domestic strategy and the supposed capacity war that a competitor was "unfairly" foisting upon the market, all to justify public assumption of QF liabilities, is in fact a nonsense.

The laziest of strategies - relying on an unusually profitable domestic operation to subsidise ever-increasing losses at the international division, and assuming this will be ongoing thus negating the need to actually address the losses on international - has been exposed for all the world to see. The great QF hissyfit of 2013 was because a domestic competitor threatened this lazy balance in the QF group - naughty little upstart.

And the CEO remains in his chair. And the Board back him. And the stock tumbles further. Fortunately, it seems, Abbott has grown a spine.

Hi All,

Firstly for all those wishing Qantas employees luck, thank you.

Secondly, from internal memos to staff and comments from Senior Managers, this is not the end of it. Within staff meetings by Senior Managers, it was stated that the route structure will be 'continually' reviewed specifically under performing routes and changes actioned accordingly...from reading and hearing this, we have not seen the last of route cuts.

Also, at the conclusion of the announcement yesterday, management told us that all jobs will now be looked at and a further assessment of what cuts were to be made within each division will be advised shortly...just more beating round the bush...however the following was released..

Closure of Cairns Flight Attendant base (highest customer advocacy for domestic - very sad)
A reduction in airport staff in all ports - number to be finalised
Catering - currently assessing operational efficiency of PER/SYD/MEL and redundancies will be announced later
Office based and support based Cabin Crew teams - Expressions of VR's are sought.

Keep your head held high teams...

Qantas was making a lot of money and was expanding fast when Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson were there. Now it's in a mess. What did they do?

How many mainline aircraft they have now?

Doubt they will run into a full year loss.

There are some absurd posts in this thread.

I'm not going to name names, but the staff are going to "blow off their other foot" or in some way wreck the company if they exercise their legal rights to take action, while the management were acting with "courage" when they locked their staff and their customers out.

Personally, I think that cool heads are required on both sides, and indeed the only way that Qantas is going to survive is if both "sides" stop seeing themselves as adversaries and instead wake up and realise that they need to work together to get out of this mess.

But if either "side" sees potential victory in teaching the other "side" a lesson they need to be getting ready for a lot of time spent at Centrelink in the future.

There are numerous troubling details hidden in yesterday's news.

There is now so little left that if Qantas International is still leaking red ink it can only mean one (or more) of four things:

1) The Emirates partnership to Europe does not deliver profits, and/or
2) Operating the 74E to/from Dallas with weight restrictions is losing large amounts of money, and/or
3) Operating the A380 to LAX is unprofitable because of the inflexible need for huge volumes, and/or
4) Asia has become a disaster now that Singapore and Hong Kong no longer connect to Europe.

There are multiple other problems emerging too. These include:

Four years ago QF and SQ each had two daily PER-SIN flights. Soon the ratio will change from 2:2 to 0:4.

The demand is clearly there, and last I looked Perth and WA were affluent and cashed-up. Yet Qantas is pulling out having allowed Jetstar to cannibalise what was previously a viable Qantas route.

There is a danger of the same outcome with Honolulu: the retirement of the 767 may end up being used a pretext to move all HNL services to Jetstar, even though Qantas confessed yesterday that Jetstar long-haul is unprofitable.

There were two significant flip-flops, neither of which Joyce owned up to.

Firstly, the 65% line is clearly being surrendered, yet he failed to acknowledge this directly or to express any regret or remorse. Very poor.

Secondly, the 767-300 and 747-400 fleets which have only just been refurbished at huge expense are now to be retired. Again, not a mea culpa in sight.

Lastly, if you zoom right out from the details there is a problem as big as a house which will only get worse.

Qantas International is described as making huge losses. High costs are vaguely blamed, with an implication that the staff are spoiled and entitled.

But the two things which really stick out about Qantas' long-haul fleet compared with their competitors are:

1) No modern efficient long-haul aircraft smaller than the A380
2) No capacity to downgauge long-haul flights at times of reduced demand.

Forget the A330 until it can fly SYD-DXB or SYD-LAX and until it has a Premium Economy cabin: it has nothing whatsoever to do with this matter.

Ultimately, what Qantas International needs is the 787-8, 787-9 or 777-300ER, yesterday.

But all that they did was cancel some 787-8s and make no commitment whatsoever to the 787-9 or 777 for Qantas.

As such, we saw nothing more than a very, very slight rearrangement of the deckchairs on the Titanic.

Because clearly an all-A380/74E long-haul flight is just fine and dandy so long as you sack enough of your staff.

Somebody please tell EK/SQ/CX and everyone else so that they can enjoy the same bright future.

[Edited 2014-02-27 21:15:31]

Quoting United Airline (Reply 184): Qantas was making a lot of money and was expanding fast when Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson were there. Now it's in a mess. What did they do?

In fairness to Joyce, he's had to cope with the enormous expansion of the 'ME3' concept, plus expansion of a lot more airlines in the region. And we mustn't forget that the vast majority of the other airlines in the region are much more than 50% owned (and therefore financed) by governments. And the 'E3' in particular have what the army used to call a 'commanding position.'

Personally I think that the best solution would be for the Australian government to follow the ME3's lead and 'recapitalise' Qantas; preferably by taking an equity stake in it (below 50%, of course); and also probably subsidising some of the key routes where Qantas are suffering unfair competition from airlines that are already very substantially government-backed.

It seems to me that QF has lost sight of the QF brand and has been focusing way too much on Jetstar, while cannibalizing the QF brand and operations. What if they could spin-off Jetstar and focus solely on the QF brand (similar to how Ford dissolved it's "Premier Automotive Group" and sold Aston-Martin, Jaguar/Land Rover and Volvo, focused almost solely on the Ford brand and is now more successful)?

The difference is that Aston Martin, Land Rover and Jaguar really didn't compete with Ford espcially in the US market. A JQ which is not controlled by QF will kill QF faster than you can say Harakiri.

At least Fukuoka will go great guns for Jetstar.

Not as if Hawaiian just cancelled it today, just as Air NZ did some years ago......

Quoting koruman (Reply 189):

Isn't this served from SIN via BKK? So a completely different market to both NZ and HA... doesn't matter though, its QF/JQ so its wrong.

Quoting koruman (Reply 189): At least Fukuoka will go great guns for Jetstar.

How so? QF pulled out of FUK in the mid 90s (763 CNS/FUK), then some time later Australian Airlines replicated the route also utiising a 763 and lasted only a few years. I doubt if these days market conditions mean there is now a sustainable demand from Aus to FUK, FUK to Aus on Jetstar.

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 188): The difference is that Aston Martin, Land Rover and Jaguar really didn't compete with Ford espcially in the US market. A JQ which is not controlled by QF will kill QF faster than you can say Harakiri.

How about a different angle, re-integrate JQ into mainline (yes , I know.. the Unions), call it QF Light (for a few years before full re-integration) and try save a well respected & valuable brand, instead of canibalizing yourself! It´s been done before & successfully, Anyone remember ´Song by Delta....'??
And I would be sure a bunch of the mainline guys would agree to a 10-15% paycut, rather than follow the path of Ansett (where a lot of them actually came from and well know the pain..) ! Suddenly QF would have Access to 787´s that are already on the books and with all their Advantages .........but I guess I better stop dreaming, but surely even the unions must be seeing the writing on the wall here

[Edited 2014-02-28 01:23:24]

[Edited 2014-02-28 01:25:25]

Quoting trent1000 (Reply 191): How so? QF pulled out of FUK in the mid 90s (763 CNS/FUK), then some time later Australian Airlines replicated the route also utiising a 763 and lasted only a few years. I doubt if these days market conditions mean there is now a sustainable demand from Aus to FUK, FUK to Aus on Jetstar.

Probably isn't great demand between Oz and FUK, but the route is done by 3K and is SIN-BKK-FUK, so really is not meant for the Australia market, but rather the SIN/BKK market. Not to say that will make it successful, because I really don't understand the market, but Koruman's blatant QF bashing by saying it will fail because NZ and HA pulled out is pointless as they were serving completely different markets from JQ/3K.