Highest And Lowest Yielding US Domestic Routes

DeltaXNA · Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:57 am

What are they? I would assume the highest yielding would be JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO. Maybe even LGA-ORD, LAX-ORD

B747forever · Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:11 am

Quoting DeltaXNA (Thread starter):
I would assume the highest yielding would be JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO. Maybe even LGA-ORD, LAX-ORD

With so much competition, and long flights I doubt that these routes are real money maker for carriers.

rfields5421 · Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:30 pm

I think flights like

SFO-LAX
DAL-HOU
LGA-DCA

would have a higher yield

[email protected] · Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:39 pm

Look for markets that have high average fares and short distances because these will have higher yields, given yield is distance-based. This doesn't mean that they will be profitable, and that low-yielding markets are not profitable.

raddek · Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:24 pm

Oh boy. The lowest? It would have to be leisure destinations like LAX-LAS or PHX-LAS. Just routes in general that go to LAS that are short to medium haul flights probably don't have much of a yield on a per flight basis.

NASBWI · Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:42 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 1):
With so much competition, and long flights I doubt that these routes are real money maker for carriers.

One might be surprised. There may be a lot of competition, but there's also a huge (premium) market to support it. If the route (specifically, JFK-LAX/SFO) didn't perform so well, I doubt most of the competing airlines would invest in upgrading their products to serve them (think AA and their A321T, B6's upcoming Mint, VX, DL's offerings, etc). Customers on those routes are demanding better service, and are showing that they're willing to pay more for it. When it comes to other transcons, your argument may hold more water (JFK-LGB/SEA/BUR/OAK for example).

PHX787 · Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:51 pm

Quoting raddek (Reply 4):
Oh boy. The lowest? It would have to be leisure destinations like LAX-LAS or PHX-LAS. Just routes in general that go to LAS that are short to medium haul flights probably don't have much of a yield on a per flight basis.

I have a feeling once Interstate 11 is finished between PHX and LAS, that route will go away, both by WN and US.

deltairlines · Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:41 pm

In general, short flights tend to have much higher yields than longer flights. A PHX-LAS flight might have 30 cent yields, while 10 cents might be common on JFk-LAX.

The big difference is the CASM side of the coin. The shorter the flight, the more CASM is going to be, especially since the fuel-intensive (departure) part of the flight is a much larger percentage. Also, yield is specific to the passengers on board, you might have a 20% load factor with amazing yield, but your RASM is going to likely be atrocious.

Thus, a PHX-LAS flight might have a CASM of 29 cents, and JFK-LAX might have 8 cents. Very different picture then just comparing yields.

On a real short route on an RJ, you might have $1 yields but the flight is still hemorraging cash.

yellowtail · Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:55 pm

Quoting raddek (Reply 4):
LAX-LAS

Actually the yields on this are quite good. As someone else mentioned though the RASM might be horrible.

LAXintl · Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:20 pm

Some of you guys have a real poor understanding of how yield works.

A short route like LAX-LAS is much HIGHER yielding than a LAX-JFK transcon.
Specifically per the DOT Q3 fare report, LA-LAS yield on Southwest Airlines was almost $0.57, versus LAX-JFK United Airlines at $0.14

The highest yielding routes in the US are short hauls, and the Northeast US tends to have the greatest such concentration.

flymia · Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:28 pm

MIA-TLH fares always seem to be skyhigh for a fairly short RJ flight. I don't know if it is good yields or just low demand but flights into smaller cities from MIA always seem to have fairly high fares. I think this is true for many hubs. But with MIA-TLH and other states which their capitals are not their largest cities I feel like those flights may have good yields due to government contracts and a good amount of business traffic.

point2point · Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:31 pm

Quoting raddek (Reply 4):
Oh boy. The lowest?

I would think that any longer routes involving DEN and 4 or 5 carriers on such could be among the lowest yielding routes.....

raddek · Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:39 pm

Yeah. LAS in general usually has the worst yields in the country due to the high demand for the absolute cheapest tickets expected by the consumer to there. MCO probably has good yields on some routes and crap yields on others.
I never would have thought that LAX-LAS would have good yields, but I learn something new every day.

brilondon · Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:34 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
I have a feeling once Interstate 11 is finished between PHX and LAS, that route will go away, both by WN and US.

I don't think that will be the case. If I were connecting through PHX to go to LAS, I would fly rather than drive a rental. Unless there is a huge O & D base in PHX, I assume I would not be alone.

AWACSooner · Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:13 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
I have a feeling once Interstate 11 is finished between PHX and LAS, that route will go away, both by WN and US.

So, that gives WN and US/AA at least 20 more years...

deltairlines · Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:15 pm

Quoting raddek (Reply 12):

Again, yield isn't RASM. the individual stage length can drive yields up significantly. Shorter flight means smaller denominator which means higher yield, but that doesn't equate to RASM which is the metric that at the end of the day matters.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 13):

Agreed. It would still be a four hour drive or so on the new freeway. For a business type traveler, there's no way that'd be acceptable.

rwsea · Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:50 pm

Highest yielding are probably those routes that are dominant with one or two carriers and have short stage-lengths. Think of examples like DL's flights from MSP to the mountain states, business routes from fortress hubs like DTW and CLT, etc. The transcon and NY-Florida routes might seem sexier but they have lots of competition and yields are quite a bit lower.

roseflyer · Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:38 pm

I have a feeling that it is going to be a very obscure route like Anchorage or Fairbanks - Prudhoe Bay for the oil traffic. While the demand is limited to oil workers, the fares are extremely high. The lowest fares on the route are typically $600 for an hour long flight. With little advanced purchase, it is over $1000.

Of course Alaska Airlines doesn't have much competition and makes a fortune off freight and passengers to the remote Alaska markets. However, operating costs are also extremely high. They have to tanker in all the fuel for the return trip, diversion and cancellation rates are high due to weather, and costs to staff anything in Alaska are extreme. Even with that, the yields are there.

SEAtown · Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:47 pm

SEA-PDX and SEA-GEG are two in the northwest. While they may not be THE highest in the nation fares are often $200+ for a rt ticket on flights which are 25 minutes and 40 minutes respectively. SEA-GEG is also very cargo heavy.

I would have to imagine the lowest are G4 flights from the upper midwest to LAS/IWA or their flights to Hawaii.

gdg9 · Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting raddek (Reply 4):
Just routes in general that go to LAS that are short to medium haul flights probably don't have much of a yield on a per flight basis.

I recall being told once that US dropped their DFW-LAS service as they were making about $20 per flight after everything. The thinking goes it wasn't worth the effort, they could deploy the aircraft elsewhere and leave LAS for WN from DAL or others. I'm not sure if that $20 figure was accurate, but US has not operated DFW-LAS in a few years now I think.

brilondon · Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:44 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 17):
I have a feeling that it is going to be a very obscure route like Anchorage or Fairbanks - Prudhoe Bay for the oil traffic. While the demand is limited to oil workers, the fares are extremely high. The lowest fares on the route are typically $600 for an hour long flight. With little advanced purchase, it is over $1000.

Of course Alaska Airlines doesn't have much competition and makes a fortune off freight and passengers to the remote Alaska markets. However, operating costs are also extremely high. They have to tanker in all the fuel for the return trip, diversion and cancellation rates are high due to weather, and costs to staff anything in Alaska are extreme. Even with that, the yields are there.

Are there subsidies involved on these routes from the State or Feds due to the importance of these industries to the economic benefits that these industries provide?

yellowtail · Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:54 pm

Something like ATL-CHA (120 miles) has very high yields ….probably about a $1 a mile…the CASM and the RASM are another story…..however, clearly the profit must be there or DL would not be serving it as frequently as they do.

Other routes in the same category that come to mind…IAH-AUS, DEN-COS, ORD-DTW, MIA-TPA

penguins · Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:43 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
have a feeling once Interstate 11 is finished between PHX and LAS, that route will go away, both by WN and US.

I am sorry but a route between two of the largest population centers is not just going away. It isn't all O&D, you know.

EricR · Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:58 am

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 21):

Something like ATL-CHA (120 miles) has very high yields %u2026.probably about a $1 a mile%u2026the CASM and the RASM are another story%u2026..however, clearly the profit must be there or DL would not be serving it as frequently as they do.

Perhaps, but then again, you have to ask yourself the question how many people are flying that route. Almost all of the traffic will be connections (and thus a different yield). Therefore, the airline is not really benefiting from the high yield. The same will apply for DEN-COS and IAH-AUS.

I realize the point of the post was to identify the highest yielding routes, but some high yielding routes bring little to the bottom line if most of the butts in the seats are connecting traffic.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):

I have a feeling once Interstate 11 is finished between PHX and LAS, that route will go away, both by WN and US.

There is a lot of O&D traffic between PHX-SAN/LAX even though I-8 and I-10 exist. The combination of connecting traffic, business travelers who don't want to waste 9 hours round trip driving, and weekend getaway travelers who would rather spend more time in the casinos than on the road will still fill flights between PHX and LAS.

BD338 · Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 14):

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
I have a feeling once Interstate 11 is finished between PHX and LAS, that route will go away, both by WN and US.

So, that gives WN and US/AA at least 20 more years...

..and the rest. This year marks the 30th anniversary of the plan to build the South Mountain Freeway around SW Phoenix. Still no sign of that happening. Interstate 11 is a project destined never to be built, US93 is a near defacto Freeway for almost the entire distance from Wickenburg to Vegas these days (a couple of notable areas that are exceptions). I-11 doesn't even have AASHTO or FHWA involvement yet so it is someway from even starting the process.

back to the original question. Someone above posted Alaska flights as good candidates for best yield, either there or some other short haul flight from a hub to an airport with only one carrier. DL charges some good money on SLC to a lot of Intermountain areas ($0.30/mile+ for non-refundable Y)

I remember watching a show on CNBC (I think) that followed AA for a week, one flight they profiled was JFK-LAX, at the end they revealed the revenue and profit for the one specific flight, it was something like a $100 profit. Now, this was way before bankruptcy etc. so times have changed. But I don't think it is the high yielding cash cow some believe it to be.

AirStairs · Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:51 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 23):

There is a lot of O&D traffic between PHX-SAN/LAX even though I-8 and I-10 exist. The combination of connecting traffic, business travelers who don't want to waste 9 hours round trip driving, and weekend getaway travelers who would rather spend more time in the casinos than on the road will still fill flights between PHX and LAS.

Not to mention the fact that LAX-LAS is offered by American (all mainline), Delta (mainline/RJ mix), United (mainline/ExPlus mix), Southwest (from BUR, ONT, and SNA also), Spirit, Virgin America and the "premium-only" Boutique Air service all ply the route despite the relatively short 4 hour drive and even the new competition from Uber for premium dollars.

Obviously the legacies are getting a fair amount of connecting pax but I would venture to guess that they do alright on O&D. In my experience as an LA twentysomething, the people who drive to Vegas aren't gonna be convinced to fly, and the people who fly are not about to change that habit.

It isn't just about distance, but the characteristics of the city pair IMO.

Maybe not so much in the last few years, but I bet MSP-FAR type services used to be a gold mine for PMNW - lack of choice also does a yield good.

BigGSFO · Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:44 am

I thought I read somewhere that some of the intra-Alaskan routes are very high yielding. Maybe someone can corroborate this.

PHX787 · Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:51 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 26):
I thought I read somewhere that some of the intra-Alaskan routes are very high yielding. Maybe someone can corroborate this.

I can't verify obviously but it's a pretty good assumption that there are good yields for these routes because for some cities, air service is the only viable option into and out of town.

travaz · Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:06 am

Quoting BD338 (Reply 24):
..and the rest. This year marks the 30th anniversary of the plan to build the South Mountain Freeway around SW Phoenix. Still no sign of that happening. Interstate 11 is a project destined never to be built, US93 is a near defacto Freeway for almost the entire distance from Wickenburg to Vegas these days (a couple of notable areas that are exceptions). I-11 doesn't even have AASHTO or FHWA involvement yet so it is someway from even starting the process.

This is correct. If i want to go to Vegas from my home in PHX I am going to fly. Its 5 hours by car. PHX has one of the best security entrances I have seen in many an airport. You can still do the dash and fly in PHX less than 30 min curb to gate with carryon. There are 4 different ways to access terminal 4 gates. Also I will often nab a FC seat for about 120 or a wn seat for 60 to 80 . Let the party begin early!! I would guess the the vast majority of PHX LAS is O&D on a Friday night.

joeman · Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:07 am

Quoting DeltaXNA (Thread starter):
I would assume the highest yielding would be JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO

Check out the following thread:

McAdoo: AA Loses $70 Million On JFK-LAX Route (by EricR Dec 3 2013 in Civil Aviation)

So much for all that endless O&D, premium travelers and yield theories a.netters love to argue and assume is automatic with any major route from the largest U.S. airports such as JFK, LAX, ORD, etc....

tyler81190 · Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:13 am

Quoting BD338 (Reply 24):
I remember watching a show on CNBC (I think) that followed AA for a week, one flight they profiled was JFK-LAX, at the end they revealed the revenue and profit for the one specific flight, it was something like a $100 profit. Now, this was way before bankruptcy etc. so times have changed. But I don't think it is the high yielding cash cow some believe it to be.

I remember watching this exact show!! And yes, it was kind of shocking that they were that close to the edge on profit. But A route like that does not have to be profitable, they are simply completing the network, and offering flights that have good connections, on both ends.

I remember Peter Greenberg on that show saying that if one of the passengers had missed the flight, or a few people had not checked bags that they would have lost money. I am sure it is somewhat better now, but probably not much. AA is not alone with that route, and I would be willing to bet that UA and DL are in the same boat with the profitability on that route, especially since neither are carrying wide-body cargo loads. (AA was)

planespotting · Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:43 pm

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 25):
Maybe not so much in the last few years, but I bet MSP-FAR type services used to be a gold mine for PMNW - lack of choice also does a yield good.

Along the same lines, I'm sure DSM-ORD used to be a lot higher yielding for the legacy airlines. Prior to Southwest's entry, roundtrip fares to Chicago on United or AA were about $800 or more. Pretty much eliminated most of the O&D traffic from that route. Now that Southwest flies it, fares are half as expensive. Although AA has recently made a better go of it, upgrading 7x ERJ to 4x CR7 and 2x ERJ.

[Edited 2014-03-03 13:40:45]

threeifbyair · Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:09 pm

DEN-ASE is #1 for the 2013 Q3 DOT report.

Top 10 O&D markets by yield ($/mile):

1. DEN-ASE $3.06
2. ORD-MKE $2.26
3. ORD-MSN $2.25
4. LAX-SAN $2.21
5. ORD-GRR $2.18
6. SFO-MOD $2.18
7. ORD-AZO $2.14
8. LAX-SBA $2.12
9. ORD-LAN $2.03
10. DTW-CMH $2.03

The longest route in the top 10 is only 179 miles. The highest PDEW is 36 for LAX-SAN - these routes mostly serve connections.

The highest yield route with at least 100 PDEW is ORD-CVG at $1.25.

MountainFlyer · Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:18 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if MSP-DEN is near the top of the lowest yielding routes.

It is covered by five different airlines, two of them ULCC (DL, WN, UA, F9, and NK). Add in the three-way hub bloodbath in DEN and it makes for some very low yields.

[Edited 2014-03-03 13:21:33]

threeifbyair · Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:44 pm

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 33):
I wouldn't be surprised if MSP-DEN is near the top of the lowest yielding routes.

Since I've got the data in front of me, LAS-PHL is the lowest yielding major market at $0.094/mile.

DEN-MSP is actually $0.218 because the distance is not that large (680 miles). DEN-Los Angeles (all airports) is $0.20.

In general, transcons have yields in the low-mid teens.

point2point · Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:37 pm

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 32):
1. DEN-ASE $3.06

That's rather an irony here in that since DEN is among the lower yielding airports in the U.S., it has the top yielding route.

I guess moreso that this shows the wealth and command of ASE..... and I would imagine the other nonstops from ASE (which are LAX, SFO, DFW, IAH and ORD that I can remember offhand) even though they have much longer stage-length than DEN-ASE, that these would also be among the routes with the highest yields.

Also, is there an easy public source for this info?

aztrainer · Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:40 pm

Quoting travaz (Reply 28):
This is correct. If i want to go to Vegas from my home in PHX I am going to fly. Its 5 hours by car. PHX has one of the best security entrances I have seen in many an airport. You can still do the dash and fly in PHX less than 30 min curb to gate with carryon. There are 4 different ways to access terminal 4 gates. Also I will often nab a FC seat for about 120 or a wn seat for 60 to 80 . Let the party begin early!! I would guess the the vast majority of PHX LAS is O&D on a Friday night.

And I would second that as I fly to SAN, SNA and LAS over the drive. One accident on any of the roads and you are stuck with on other option than a big backtrack.

United787 · Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:43 pm

I am flying ORD-ASE tomorrow and the fares always seem to be in the $700 range. I am using miles this time but it is worth it because I can have the lodge pick me up at the airport (no car rental) and be on the slopes within an hour. The alternative is fly to EGE and rent a car or take a shuttle. Not too much savings and time suck. OR fly into DEN and drive 4+ hours ... probably save money but waste a full day round trip.

a380787 · Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:47 pm

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 34):
Since I've got the data in front of me, LAS-PHL is the lowest yielding major market at $0.094/mile.

It was great while the fare war lasted ... i've taken advantage of $87 one-way fares LAS-EWR-ZFV, which comes out to 3.9cpm ignoring the rail portion.

Flighty · Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:10 pm

The highest yield routes (in revenue per SEAT MILE, not raw dollars) are pretty much all RJ flights to cities like (just for example) DSM and BHM. Good, healthy RJ routes on legacy price scales. This is DL or UA's bread and butter.

The glamor routes like JFK-PEK and JFK-PHX let's say, are actually among the lowest yielding and potentially most unprofitable. They have a long distance, many crew hours, lots of potentially empty seats (the denominator of RASM).

Small seat count and short distance, your yield (cents per mile) will be huge, in a legacy business fare market.

[Edited 2014-03-03 15:17:55]

mcg · Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:00 am

I'll take SLC-MSO for high yield. Always more than $400 and it's less than an hour in the air.

EricR · Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:07 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 39):

The glamor routes like JFK-PEK and JFK-PHX let's say

Interesting choice of glamor routes. I guess glamor is in the eyes of the beholder, but is JFK-PHX a glamor route?

RamblinMan · Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:04 am

Quoting DeltaXNA (Thread starter):
Maybe even LGA-ORD

I seriously doubt any route with NK competition is anywhere close to the top of the high-yield list. Last time I flew that I paid $128 roundtrip. On the DL shuttle, no less. I think it's less of a bloodbath these days but still competitive.

threeifbyair · Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:08 am

Quoting mcg (Reply 40):
I'll take SLC-MSO for high yield. Always more than $400 and it's less than an hour in the air.

$0.76/mile for 2013Q3. Definitely among the higher yielding routes in the US.

Quoting point2point (Reply 35):
Also, is there an easy public source for this info?

I use the "Table 6" data from this website:

http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-p...stic-airline-fares-consumer-report

Play with it in Excel a little bit and you have a treasure trove of data. There are some limitations (no data for Alaska and Hawaii, no granular airport data for multi-airport markets, and some odd quirks to DOT's presentation of the data) but it is pretty useful overall.

point2point · Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:23 am

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 43):
I use the "Table 6" data from this website:

http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-p...stic-airline-fares-consumer-report

Play with it in Excel a little bit and you have a treasure trove of data. There are some limitations (no data for Alaska and Hawaii, no granular airport data for multi-airport markets, and some odd quirks to DOT's presentation of the data) but it is pretty useful overall.

Okay, thanks, and I know the site well.... and yes, that's the thing, it is big and it is a lot of data manipulation on a spreadsheet to get info.... I though maybe an already published had this info already done.......

Anyways, if you got DEN-ASE as the highest, and all the rest, you did well with that massive info there presented.

[Edited 2014-03-03 20:54:40]

BCEaglesCO757 · Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:45 am

You mean all of the business travel done in the northeast and no one has mentioned

BOS-PHL
BOS-DCA/IAD
BOS-LGA/EWR/JFK
BOS-ORD

EWR/JFK/LGA-BOS
EWR/JFK/LGA -DCA/IAD
EWR/JFK/LGA-ORD
EWR/JFK/LGA-PHL

DCA/IAD- Anywhere along the northeast corridor.

Reading or skimming through this thread I'm surprised not any citypairs in the NE.

I take it Amtrack has that sown up just that well eh ?

BCEaglesCO757 · Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:51 am

I'm going to throw in IAH-ANC.

Some oil traffic on that flight.

And not too shabby on the cargo regardless of equipment used.

[Edited 2014-03-05 00:53:09]

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net