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Miami
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AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:19 pm

Yet another AA wing clip. This one at DFW. The incident happened around 8:30 a.m. at Gate D40.

According to American Airlines spokesman Matt Miller, the flight was inbound from Leone, Mexico. As it was being towed to the gate, the jet’s left wing struck a concrete pillar that supports the terminal.

No injuries have been reported.

Source: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/03/03/a...irlines-jet-clips-concrete-pillar/



-Miami   
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
gregarious119
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:27 pm

And we didn't have a wing walker, why?
 
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KPDX
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:31 pm

Was this one of the newer A319s?
 
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Miami
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:42 pm

Quoting KPDX (Reply 2):
Was this one of the newer A319s?

Yes it was. AA flight 2445
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
Marquis
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:53 pm

Quoting KPDX (Reply 2):
Was this one of the newer A319s?

Aircraft involved in the accident is N9013A (MSN 5827 | Del.: 2013-11-05).

[Edited 2014-03-03 13:57:24]
Riding the radials...
 
ckfred
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:14 pm

This is where the connector from Terminal B meets Terminal D. So, behind the plane are gates B1, B2, and B3.

Quoting gregarious119 (Reply 1):
And we didn't have a wing walker, why?

With the new "parking" system that doesn't require a marshall, does AA use wing walkers for inbound aircraft that are parking at a gate? I know a few mainline pilots based out of ORD who like the parking system, since they don't have to wait for a ground crew to park (really great for an early arrival or during a shift change), but they are concerned about hitting something, since they generally can't see the wingtips from the cockpit.
 
eastern747
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:03 am

Why no wing walkers? Management doesn't want to pay for the people, or the labor hired is so cheap, (they would make more at Mc Donalds, and don't give a crap). So go ahead......keep busting up your fleet.
 
AA737-823
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:34 am

Quoting gregarious119 (Reply 1):

And we didn't have a wing walker, why?

For those who aren't aware, a lot of airlines have done away with wing walkers, or reduced them to one per airplane.
Because it's cheaper to repair the airplanes than it is to pay wing walkers.
 
TUSAA
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:10 am

This flight was being towed into gate D40 and there should have been wing walkers on both wings.
 
rampbro
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:20 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
For those who aren't aware, a lot of airlines have done away with wing walkers, or reduced them to one per airplane. Because it's cheaper to repair the airplanes than it is to pay wing walkers.

Even in a very large airport with opportunities for economy of scale, I would think that the airlines will find that to be a bad decision in the long run. They would have to get one hell of a screaming deal from the insurers to swing it.

That said, in 90% of the movements I observe, wing-walkers are either absent or ineffective aka not paying attention. Having witnessed a collision incident involving very bad wing-walking, it makes me nervous to see lazy, inattentive rampers barely holding their wands upright.
 
Q
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:24 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):

           

Not true! Why cheaper? Cost more money to repair and out of service one plane ground for a few days or a week losing a million of dollar a day! They pay to each workers worth a $25K a year or you loss a million of dollars which you prefer do to it?

 

Q
 
nomorerjs
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:27 am

Flights into D40 get towed into the gate. I flew DFW to YYZ last week and watched an MD80 (going to OMA) and my 319 towed in (with wing walkers). Someone wasn't paying attention.
 
Cactus739
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:33 am

How close to that pillar do they normally get?
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
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Horstroad
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:44 am

I have never seen a single wing walker at my home base (except for when we tow aircraft into hangars). You shouldn't hit anything if you stayed on the yellow line.
 
Okie
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:17 am

Quoting horstroad (Reply 13):
I have never seen a single wing walker at my home base (except for when we tow aircraft into hangars). You shouldn't hit anything if you stayed on the yellow line.

A relative frequent visitor to DFW, I have never noticed D40 being used. Not saying it is not, just that I have never noticed but remembering that corner looked pretty tight.
Which lead me to do the old Google satellite view. There are 2 lines on the ramp for D40, so I guess it has to do with aircraft size and NLG to MLG distance for the turn. In any case it is going to be a damn tight fit for a mainline aircraft. Makes you wonder if the lines were correct for a 319 to make the turn without clipping the winglet.

I suspect the tug drivers head for cover when push back time comes, looks even more challenging for pushback.

Okie
 
Beechtobus
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:53 am

I'm glad the author of the article got the spelling of Leon almost right.
 
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antoniemey
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:16 am

Quoting rampbro (Reply 9):
That said, in 90% of the movements I observe, wing-walkers are either absent or ineffective aka not paying attention. Having witnessed a collision incident involving very bad wing-walking, it makes me nervous to see lazy, inattentive rampers barely holding their wands upright.

I only get to push small planes and I don't trust my wingwalkers half the time. Inattentive wingwalker + pushback driver not familiar with towing that aircraft type into that spot = busted wingtip.

Alternately, attentive wingwalker with the driver not looking at him/her could get the same net result.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
mark2fly1034
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:28 am

Quoting horstroad (Reply 13):

The yellow line only guarantees one thing... that you are on the line.
 
flyXJT
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:58 am

Quoting Q (Reply 10):

Q,

It's not as easy as paying just one guy $25,000 a year to alleviate these accidents. There are many factors that are included in weighing the risk vs reward game many airlines pay. Even an $11.00 an hour employee will cost a company over $40,000 a year once you include things such as benefits. In addition they have to staff that additional head for multiple gates every day of the year so now you could be talking upwards of 50 people depending on the size of the operation. That in itself exceeds $2 million.

Now imagine that in every hub and mainline city they fly into and you are talking big money. Even if you bend two or three planes a year it pays off, and that would be a bad year.

I remember Comair did a study back in the day about using belt loaders on the CRJs and their potential damage vs. Paying out OJIs from employees' back injuries. They ended up choosing OJIs over damage. It's always a numbers game and the guys running the numbers have vast resources to figure out the true costs of damage vs whatever variable they want.
 
bristolflyer
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:35 pm

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
No injuries have been reported.

Really? Wow, with damage that devastating to both plane and building I would have expected dozens of injuries.

 
Fortune favours the brave
 
AADFWFlyer
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:20 pm

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 19):

Not with a plane moving that slow while taxiing, and passengers seat-belted in - not probability or likelihood of many injuries (to none) at all.

And for the use of D40 - AA uses this gate quite often - as have seen A391's, B737s and MD80's there.
Plane inspected and most likely back in service very shortly, pending any repairs to the wingtip.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:31 pm

Quoting Beechtobus (Reply 15):
I'm glad the author of the article got the spelling of Leon almost right.

At least they didn't even try to spell "Guanajuato."  
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Tdan
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:50 pm

I've been waiting for this to happen at D40. It's really really tight and requires all hands on deck from the ground crew. I'd expect it to become an RJ gate when AE fully relocates from the lower D's
We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
 
IAHflyer97
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:53 pm

OneWorld has just had an atrocious week of plane incidences! Geez
A man is only as big as the amount of strings on his guitar.
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:13 pm

Maybe some sort of electronic system could be installed that would warn pilots if the wing get's too close to an obstacle. It could also transmit a signal to the tug by radio so that an alarm would sound and they could stop and check before continuing if anything gets within 2 metres of a wing. I don't think it would be expensive to install and certify, most cars have similar systems for parking these days.
 
Maverick623
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:22 pm

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 21):
At least they didn't even try to spell "Guanajuato."

C'mon, everybody's heard of that Navy base in Cuba.

 
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
FoxBravo
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:26 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 25):

LOL
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
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ramprat74
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:29 pm

It's a pretty tight gate.

http://binged.it/1fFatVw
 
aaway
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:32 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 25):
Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 26):

  +2. Reminds me of the AA press conference announcing the HKG and (DFW-) PVG service. The mayor of Fort Worth referring to Shanghai as "Shangapore".
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
Okie
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:48 am

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 27):
It's a pretty tight gate

One thing on D40 there will not be any powerbacks.
The linked picture shows an MD-80 being snaked out by a tug of what appears to have been docked at D39.

Okie
 
Q
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:04 am

Probably they prohibit A319 gate position from now on.

Q
 
nomorerjs
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:20 am

Plane had like 48 people onboard. If this is the normal load, why was this upgauged? RJ seems like a better fit, but may be part of the AA strategy of packing flights at ORD on RJs while DFW get's flights to Mexico and Canada with 40 people on mainline while ORD-PHL/ATL/etc. get RJs. No love for ORD on AA (not to mention UA).
 
bristolflyer
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:10 pm

Quoting AADFWFlyer (Reply 20):
Not with a plane moving that slow while taxiing, and passengers seat-belted in - not probability or likelihood of many injuries (to none) at all.

I think your sarcasm detector may need servicing.
Fortune favours the brave
 
realsim
Posts: 520
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RE: AA Clips Concrete Pillar At DFW

Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:38 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 27):
It's a pretty tight gate.

It's even tighter now, because with the construction of the B-D FIS connector, the building was widened. Check here:

http://goo.gl/maps/pZL2w

This gate should really be an RJ only gate...

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