rampbro
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Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:26 pm

A note has been found on a WS a/c in YYJ with a very disgusting and ignorant message directed towards the female pilot of the flight: Link

It pains me to think that this idiot is walking around the same island as me.
 
tonystan
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:31 pm

No different to coming into airliners.net and having debate where people say cabin crew should be all pretty, in mini skirts and practically under age!!!!

Ignorance is everywhere!
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ROSWELL41
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:35 pm

Slow news day in Canada? If I were the captain, I wouldn't have even dignified that with a response. Since she did, it shows it actually bothers her.

People will think what they want, don't waste time on such ignorance.
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:59 pm

Signed, Rob Ford

I kid, I kid.
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
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LOWS
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:07 pm

Sigh.

I'll never forget the day I was in the SBahn (suburban train) near the control room door and the "gentleman" across from me said "oh, it's a woman train driver. I hope we don't get lost on the way to XXX."
 
airjamaica
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:17 pm

Quoting rampbro (Thread starter):
A note has been found on a WS a/c in YYJ with a very disgusting and ignorant message directed towards the female pilot of the flight: Link

It pains me to think that this idiot is walking around the same island as me.
Quoting tonystan (Reply 1):
Ignorance is everywhere!

I cant believe in this day and age there are still persons having issues with female flight deck crews. Over the years I have flown with many female pilots/captains on JM ( when they were around ), AA and B6. As a matter of fact most of my flights have female crew ( s ) up front.

What's the big deal ? It's not as if they are put through a less rigorous training than their male counterparts. Yes some jobs are ( and will always be ) more male dominated, but if a female is competent enough and have aspirations to persue a career in a male dominated job, why should she short change herself and surpress her ambitions ?

When I was in Air Traffic Control, there were many female controllers there as well, and like it or not, some of them were far more effecient and sharper than their male collegues.

Personally I have alot of respect and adoration for women who make their mark in traditionally male dominated professions, especially where aviation is concerned. Kudos to them.

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 2):
If I were the captain, I wouldn't have even dignified that with a response. Since she did, it shows it actually bothers her.

People will think what they want, don't waste time on such ignorance.

Agree 100%. Ducks quack. Eagles soar.
airjamaica
 
LH707330
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:23 am

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 2):
Slow news day in Canada? If I were the captain, I wouldn't have even dignified that with a response. Since she did, it shows it actually bothers her.

I would have, I imagine it's difficult to deal with these sorts of micro-aggressions on a regular basis, and I'm likewise bothered on her behalf that this nonsense still occurs. Much better to highlight and criticize bad behavior rather than let it go unchecked.
 
WNCrew
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:31 am

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 6):
I would have, I imagine it's difficult to deal with these sorts of micro-aggressions on a regular basis, and I'm likewise bothered on her behalf that this nonsense still occurs. Much better to highlight and criticize bad behavior rather than let it go unchecked.

AGREED! Easy to say when you're a white-heterosexual-male and you'll continue to walk around in the world with the support OF said World with no question of your existence. I say, STAND UP to $hit like this, especially when you're the smaller voice. People just prefer it when you're quiet, because they don't want to hear it, only it's been conveniently disguised as "being the bigger person"... I call BS on that.

[Edited 2014-03-04 19:31:43]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Beatyair
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:06 am

Really? How stupid!! Did the note also say that there should be no male flight attendants as well? Thought thoughs days where behind us.
 
opethfan
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:26 am

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 2):

That's what WS themselves said.

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 6):

I would fully support WS, if this asshole ever tries to book a flight with them again, just printing out a piece of paper that says "Walk, you ignorant, hate filled prick."
 
infinit
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:27 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 7):
AGREED! Easy to say when you're a white-heterosexual-male and you'll continue to walk around in the world with the support OF said World with no question of your existence. I say, STAND UP to $hit like this, especially when you're the smaller voice. People just prefer it when you're quiet, because they don't want to hear it, only it's been conveniently disguised as "being the bigger person"... I call BS on that.

Same sentiments. I would do just that. Most captains recruited around the world still tend to be male by far. Such prejudice from some consumers won't change much people meet more female captains.. airlines really should look into how they can improve the male-centric base of their technical crew. I wonder if a study has ever been done on this.. perhaps there is a fundamental bias to hire males right from the recruitment and selection process?
 
aviatorcraig
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:53 am

In 2014, really?  

At first I thought this was just the work of a religious nut-job, but that wouldn't explain his comments about safety. Fortunately though, the more enlightened Canadian authorities will have issued the captain with her licence based on her training and flying ability!
707 727 Caravelle Comet Concorde Dash-7 DC-9 DC-10 One-Eleven Trident Tristar Tu-134 VC-10 Viscount plus boring stuff!
 
opethfan
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:10 am

Quoting infinit (Reply 10):
Same sentiments. I would do just that. Most captains recruited around the world still tend to be male by far. Such prejudice from some consumers won't change much people meet more female captains.. airlines really should look into how they can improve the male-centric base of their technical crew. I wonder if a study has ever been done on this.. perhaps there is a fundamental bias to hire males right from the recruitment and selection process?

Some variation could simply be due to the nature of the job. I don't want to make excuses or sound insensitive, but some jobs do lend themselves to one gender more than the other. And I'm saying that as someone who considers themselves to be a pretty die-hard feminist. Just because everyone should have the same rights and resources to pursue a certain skill set or career, doesn't mean that the split will be 50/50. Be that because of nature / nurture, glass ceilings, workforce biases or anything else.

The bottom of the article does state that WS Encore (the feeder airline) has a much larger percentage of female pilots. Maybe that's because of scheduling / environment differences, the newer culture of the airline or perhaps because there's an influx of young female pilots entering the field on the smaller, presumably lower-paying fleet before moving up to mainline.

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 11):
At first I thought this was just the work of a religious nut-job, but that wouldn't explain his comments about safety. Fortunately though, the more enlightened Canadian authorities will have issued the captain with her licence based on her training and flying ability!

There was a Bible verse written on the napkin...
 
art
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:52 am

If the passenger wishes society to be as it was some 2,000 years ago in the Middle East, he is entitled to his wish. Let him travel as he would have then - with an all-male cart driving crew, none of whom would have undergone hundreds of hours of training before being responsible for the safety of their passengers.
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:01 am

It is now spreading all over the world!

That's a pretty shocked!
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tommy1808
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:25 am

Quoting LOWS (Reply 4):
I'll never forget the day I was in the SBahn (suburban train) near the control room door and the "gentleman" across from me said "oh, it's a woman train driver. I hope we don't get lost on the way to XXX."

I would assume that comment was made as a "honest" joke, unless he had sweat pouring all over because he was scared of the woman driver killing him and everyone on board. Like non of us has laughed at blond jokes..... i do, i tell them, yet i hired blonde female engineers.... oh, and i am blonde myself.

I would sure hope that this idiot made a joke in really bad taste, i usually do notice who is in the cockpit during boarding or even from the gate. I´d figure a persona really thinking like the note implies would try to check that before boarding the plane and run when he sees a woman.

Its weird how this is newsworthy and not just shrugged of as the dumb stupid comment it is. All this is going to accomplish is to motivate other idiots with lack of common sense and/or far of mainstream sense of humor making such comments due to the attention this gets. But denying the holocaust is protected by freedom of speech...... PC is cancer, keeping people from acting normal with each other. Making fun of each other is part of normal behavior, and so it is normal that some people will actually end-up overstepping lines and hurting feelings.

best regards
Thomas
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
bennett123
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:43 am

A pretty dumb comment.

However, if all dumb people were locked up the prisons would be full, and Parliament/Congress would be empty  

Having read Proverbs 31, the picture is of a strong capable and independent woman. In fact, even 100 years ago, these views would have been extremely liberal.

"Her husband puts his confidence in her and he will never be poor" v11

"She looks at land and buys it, and with money she has earned she plants a vineyard" v16

So she is assessing and buying property based on her own judgement. The money she uses to build that business is from her earnings.

"She knows the value of everything she makes, and works late into the night". v17

"She makes clothes and belts, and sells them to merchants" v24

So she not only makes goods but also sells them directly to merchants.

"She is strong and respected and afraid of the future" v25

"She speaks with a gentle wisdom" v26

"Give her credit for all that she does. She deserves the respect of everyone" v31.

Perhaps this guy should read his Bible MORE.

The picture painted by Proverbs is of a woman who is "a safe pair of hands".
 
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Groover158
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:04 am

It really should come as no surprise that there are actually people on this planet who think this way. Do we honestly think that the entire world respects women? Sadly, the answer is no, and even sadder that as long as we inhabit this planet there will always be misogynistic you-know-whats like the one who is featured in the OP article.
 
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CrimsonNL
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:37 am

It's just another example of a sad, ignorant man, who is afraid of women who are more intelligent then him. Unfortunately there are still many of those men around..

Martijn
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tommy1808
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:59 am

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 18):
Unfortunately there are still many of those men around..

There are also plenty of women thinking like that. I know a guy that works as a pre-school teacher and you quite frequently has to deal with mothers that more or less think that a guy deciding to work with children has to be a borderline child-molester. Living in the 19th century is not a "male-only" Problem...

Best regards
Thomas

P.S. maybe a moderator should move this threat into "non-aviation"?
....the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero
 
cfischaleck
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:12 am

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 18):
Unfortunately there are still many of those men around..

Yes, there are. I can remember a thread here not long ago in which a forum user explained how female (pilots) are inferior to men because of some pretty bulls*** argumentation ...  
 
transaeroyyz
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:26 pm

ttp://archives.californiaaviation.org/pilot/msg00014.html

Interesting read .....

[Edited 2014-03-05 04:38:01]
 
smittyone
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:39 pm

Quoting transaeroyyz (Reply 21):


ttp://archives.californiaaviation.org/pilot/msg00014.html

Interesting read I must say,...

Indeed...suggests that women do a better job of applying the old maxim: "A superior pilot uses his [her] superior judgment to avoid situations that would require the use of his [her] superior skills.

Which, when you think about it is what you want in a commercial aviation context...maybe flying fighter jets would be a different story. I'll take a little less hand/eye coordination every time over flying through CBs, pushing an unstabilized approach etc.

[Edited 2014-03-05 04:49:18]
 
LTC8K6
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:58 pm

I think the story actually reflects some good news.

Such a note and attitude is clearly abnormal now, and females running the flight deck are clearly normal now. The story illustrates that times have indeed changed.

Had this person voiced that opinion where the passengers could hear it, rather than writing a note, they would have gotten an ear full, and probably been run off the airplane.
 
smittyone
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 23):
Had this person voiced that opinion where the passengers could hear it, rather than writing a note, they would have gotten an ear full, and probably been run off the airplane.

I suppose that would have required rather more 'testicular fortitude' than this fellow could muster.
 
Boeing744
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:19 pm

Being from Victoria originally, it wouldn't surprise me at all that this old fool is from there. Plenty of old men there who think the woman's proper place is in the kitchen.

Personally I am glad the pilot posted the image. I think a lot of support against the attitude would encourage more women to pursue careers in aviation.

I remember being at Orly this past summer and seeing an all-female Jetairfly 737-800 crew (Capt, FO and all FAs) boarding their flight to Algeria. It struck me as remarkable at the time based on male-female pilot demographics, but it would certainly be nice if it no longer was something to remark upon!
 
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b727fa
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:19 pm

I'm curious how the note leaver got access to the flight deck to leave the note on the chart clip.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
LH707330
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:24 pm

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 9):
I would fully support WS, if this asshole ever tries to book a flight with them again, just printing out a piece of paper that says "Walk, you ignorant, hate filled prick."

I think at that stage, humor might be the best remedy. Something like "Warning, the flight crew may be female. We advise you drive instead."

Quoting infinit (Reply 10):
I wonder if a study has ever been done on this.. perhaps there is a fundamental bias to hire males right from the recruitment and selection process?
Quoting Opethfan (Reply 12):
Just because everyone should have the same rights and resources to pursue a certain skill set or career, doesn't mean that the split will be 50/50. Be that because of nature / nurture, glass ceilings, workforce biases or anything else.
Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 19):
There are also plenty of women thinking like that. I know a guy that works as a pre-school teacher and you quite frequently has to deal with mothers that more or less think that a guy deciding to work with children has to be a borderline child-molester. Living in the 19th century is not a "male-only" Problem.

I think it starts very early in life, little girls are given dolls and boys are given legos. Girls are told how good they look, buys how smart they are. Continue this for 20 years and it's no surprise you see this distribution. Having workplace discrimination rules and equality laws are band-aids, IMHO. There are still well-entrenched gender roles that we need to leave in the past and treat people similarly from an early age. For those of you with kids, please make sure they all play with engineering toys.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 15):
Its weird how this is newsworthy and not just shrugged of as the dumb stupid comment it is. All this is going to accomplish is to motivate other idiots with lack of common sense and/or far of mainstream sense of humor making such comments due to the attention this gets. But denying the holocaust is protected by freedom of speech...... PC is cancer, keeping people from acting normal with each other. Making fun of each other is part of normal behavior, and so it is normal that some people will actually end-up overstepping lines and hurting feelings.

On balance, I think calling out the bad behavior is a net improvement relative to letting it go unchecked. If we assume that most people are somewhat malleable and follow examples of others, criticizing outright bigotry will calibrate the senses of humor of the masses to be more sensitive to social issues. This plays directly into your point about free speech. If bigots and peddlers of misinformation (e.g. Holocaust deniers) are criticized by fact-based arguments, then (ideally) people will side with the most reasonable account and the loonies will fall out of favor.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 19):
P.S. maybe a moderator should move this threat into "non-aviation"?

  
 
Boeing744
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:05 pm

Quoting B727FA (Reply 26):

I'm curious how the note leaver got access to the flight deck to leave the note on the chart clip.

Just because the photo was taken there doesn't mean it was left there by the passenger.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:38 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 23):

Such a note and attitude is clearly abnormal now, and females running the flight deck are clearly normal now. The story illustrates that times have indeed changed.

The attitude is outdated, but is it really normal now?

The article says

"The airline goes on to say it has 1,118 male pilots and 58 female pilots, and that WestJet Encore has 96 male pilots and 10 female pilots."

Not a great ratio. More like a token force.
 
smittyone
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 27):
There are still well-entrenched gender roles that we need to leave in the past and treat people similarly from an early age. For those of you with kids, please make sure they all play with engineering toys.

Funny you say that, but my daughter has been into 'girly' stuff like playing "house" from the earliest age. Inexplicably so.

I've gotten her interested in other things since then - and she is a rock star in math and science - but it was striking how focused she was on that stuff from the very beginning in spite of my trying to slip airplane paraphrenalia into her crib and play area LOL.
 
bennett123
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:39 pm

I am fully convinced that giving girls Lego is going to make more want to be Engineers.

Surely, at the end of the day, we need to encourage children to follow the course that they want.
 
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b727fa
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:42 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 28):

Quoting B727FA (Reply 26):

I'm curious how the note leaver got access to the flight deck to leave the note on the chart clip.

Just because the photo was taken there doesn't mean it was left there by the passenger.

Noted. And I thought about that, too.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
BWI5OH
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:53 pm

Maybe y'all just don't notice it, but it happens A LOT more than you realize. To tell the truth, I've heard women on board comment very poorly about the women pilots up front. When I asked why one woman felt the way she did, the answer was quite startling. She said she feels women can not handle a stressful situation without letting emotions get in the way of making a good decision. Poor parental upbringing? I don't know. Personal experience with other women? Don't know that either, but I know men like that as well.

It will ALWAYS be a fact of life that there are those who believe there are gender specific jobs.
"It's all fun and games until the cops show up"
 
SouthernDC9
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:58 pm

Honestly, at this point, when I see something like this I tend to assume it's fake. We've seen no shortage of proof (the server in NJ being a very recent example, there are many) that people, for whatever reason, love to play the victim (and/or to be in the spotlight) and will go to extraordinary lengths to do so. This particular note reads like an example of how people think sexist bigots would write, rather than anything an actual person would put into words.

[Edited 2014-03-05 14:05:21]
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winstonlegthigh
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:59 pm

Eh, it shouldn't surprise anyone that there are people walking around among us with a backasswards way of thinking, and I hate to say it, but they are entitled to their opinion- however archaic it may be.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 28):
Just because the photo was taken there doesn't mean it was left there by the passenger.

Sad, but true. People are willing to stoop pretty low in order to advance their cause, and with social media being what it is now, this problem seems exacerbated. I'm reminded of the lesbian waitress in New Jersey that falsely accused a couple of not tipping her, and then decided to slander them on top of that by penning a note on the receipt on their behalf citing the reason for the imaginary no tip was because they disagreed with her lifestyle. Pity donations started flowing her way, and she selflessly pledged to donate the funds to Wounded Warriors (a charity). Eventually, the slandered couple produced a credit card statement which exposed the poor waitress as a fraud. The charity didn't get a dime from her either.

I don't doubt that in this case it's genuine, but since it seems that the pilot took it in stride, I guess it's one of those things that you shake your head and move on.
Never has gravity been so uplifting.
 
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rikkus67
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:08 pm

Quoting B727FA (Reply 32):
Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 28):

Quoting B727FA (Reply 26):

I'm curious how the note leaver got access to the flight deck to leave the note on the chart clip.

Just because the photo was taken there doesn't mean it was left there by the passenger.

Noted. And I thought about that, too.

I believe it was left in the actual seat the Passenger was riding on.

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 29):
"The airline goes on to say it has 1,118 male pilots and 58 female pilots, and that WestJet Encore has 96 male pilots and 10 female pilots."

Not a great ratio. More like a token force.

Not a great ratio, agreed. But more a subject of who has qualified to fly, and MUCH less as a token gesture.
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Natflyer
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:18 pm

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 12):
Some variation could simply be due to the nature of the job. I don't want to make excuses or sound insensitive, but some jobs do lend themselves to one gender more than the other. And I'm saying that as someone who considers themselves to be a pretty die-hard feminist. Just because everyone should have the same rights and resources to pursue a certain skill set or career, doesn't mean that the split will be 50/50. Be that because of nature / nurture, glass ceilings, workforce biases or anything else.

Good point. At my carrier female pilots are around 10% of the pilots group. Interestingly about 75% of them are part-timers, working 50-75% of the time. Thats something that hardly existed before they joined the group. But at the end of the day, most of them are also mothers and with our 24hr short-medium haul ops they may find full time work hard with family life.
 
LH707330
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:00 pm

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 34):
Honestly, at this point, when I see something like this I tend to assume it's fake.
Quoting winstonlegthigh (Reply 35):
Sad, but true. People are willing to stoop pretty low in order to advance their cause

I would normally be inclined to agree, but I reckon the captain would get seriously disciplined in this case if they made this up and it came out as such, but we'll see.

It appears to have gotten more coverage though (not A-grade outlets per se), which, if it's a true story, is good to spread the concern over such bigotry:
http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/05/westje...cy-stunned-by-sexist-note-4423978/
http://shine.yahoo.com/westjet-passe...te-for-female-pilot-161057500.html

Quoting smittyone (Reply 30):
Funny you say that, but my daughter has been into 'girly' stuff like playing "house" from the earliest age. Inexplicably so.

I've gotten her interested in other things since then - and she is a rock star in math and science - but it was striking how focused she was on that stuff from the very beginning in spite of my trying to slip airplane paraphrenalia into her crib and play area LOL.

Maybe it's backfiring because as a parent you're uncool  
Quoting smittyone (Reply 30):
I am fully convinced that giving girls Lego is going to make more want to be Engineers.

Surely, at the end of the day, we need to encourage children to follow the course that they want.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not in that first section. Regarding course, my point was to highlight the importance of presenting them with numerous courses and not trying to steer them down gender-normed ones.
 
smittyone
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RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:15 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 38):
Maybe it's backfiring because as a parent you're uncool  

True.

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 38):
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not in that first section. Regarding course, my point was to highlight the importance of presenting them with numerous courses and not trying to steer them down gender-normed ones.

Contrary to what the forum software says, this wasn't my quote! For the record though I do agree, we have to be careful not to send the wrong message. I read or saw on the idiot box that girls' perception of their efficacy at math was formed by what they are told and it becomes a self-fulfilling deal.
 
rampbro
Topic Author
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:00 am

RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:37 pm

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 34):

You know what happens way more than bigotry hoaxes? Bigotry.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1941
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:55 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 27):
I think it starts very early in life, little girls are given dolls and boys are given legos. Girls are told how good they look, buys how smart they are. Continue this for 20 years and it's no surprise you see this distribution. Having workplace discrimination rules and equality laws are band-aids, IMHO. There are still well-entrenched gender roles that we need to leave in the past and treat people similarly from an early age. For those of you with kids, please make sure they all play with engineering toys.

True, have noticed this too. Many roles are implied as gender-specific right from young age by the clever "marketing" by toys companies. Notice that toy cars, trucks, airplanes are mainly marketed towards boys, while kitchen sets, tea sets, baby dolls, baby strollers etc are marketed to only girls.

In this day and age when both men and women take care of kids, why should even toys like babies, doll strollers etc be marketed only in pink for girls? Similarly, aren't there many male chefs? Why should kitchen sets etc be only for girls? And don't women drive (or in this particular instance fly)? Why should cars, trucks, planes be limited to boys? One look at the road constructions in summer, and you can see women operating the big bull dozers etc , and they drive buses and trains.

So why this discrimination? Mainly, stereotypes are enforced right from young age, and then people wonder why grown-ups have these preconceived notions on gender specific roles?  
 
argonaught
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:56 pm

RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:00 am

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 16):
Perhaps this guy should read his Bible MORE.

This is completely off topic, but it's not uncommon for _____________ (insert the name of the scripture)-thumpers to have only tangential and superficial knowledge of the very book they are promoting.

I also disagree with the lady pilot's decision to publish this note. Being an accomplished professional, she should know better than to stoop to a bickering contest with everyone who has something dumb to say.

"Do not argue with fools - they will drag you to their level and beat you with experience".
 
opethfan
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:35 am

RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am

Convenient tweet is convenient: https://twitter.com/WestJet/status/441363757697368064

[Edited 2014-03-05 16:08:10]
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2625
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:32 am

Quoting art (Reply 13):
If the passenger wishes society to be as it was some 2,000 years ago in the Middle East,

Er, why the ME? Society was pretty much like this even in Europe till the first half of the 20th century......
 
opethfan
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:35 am

RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:41 am

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 44):

Because the Bible is set in the Middle East.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:33 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 29):
The attitude is outdated, but is it really normal now?

The article says

"The airline goes on to say it has 1,118 male pilots and 58 female pilots, and that WestJet Encore has 96 male pilots and 10 female pilots."

Not a great ratio. More like a token force.

Normal in the sense that the pilot community doesn't think anything of it. It is, of course, still a very male-dominated profession, but it's not because the profession is trying to keep them out (which they once were, as is true with many professions).

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Western727
Posts: 1721
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:02 am

I, too, find this incident sad, being the product of a feminist mother who raised me while single after my parents divorced when I was seven. I sought a woman who believes in a 50-50 marriage as a result. Still, I am a sexist nonetheless (as we all are); U.S. society continues to condition us to be, unfortunately.

I recall one late evening I was eager to get back home from a business trip on a NW DC-9 flying MSP-FSD. We'd been delayed in MSP due to thunderstorms in the FSD area, and after we took off the FA informed me (because she knew I was deaf and couldn't hear the flight crew's announcements) that we'd wait for a window to land, and if one did not open up in due time we'd divert.

Finally, a window opened, and we went in. The approach & final were both bumpy, and I was understandably expecting a rough landing. Lo and behold, the PF nailed the landing and it was very smooth, even as a strong crosswind landing. I visualized a tall, seasoned captain, slender with white hair and a mustache. This was before 9/11 when the cockpit door opened up right after landing (ah, those were the days) and since I was in window seat 1D I couldn't see the deck until I deplaned. Well, guess what I saw?

Two pilots running through the shut-down checklist...and they were both...ahem...women. Great lesson, and my mom loved the story. Ever since, I've made a point to peer into the flight deck when I remember to, but in my many flights since, I've not yet seen two women there, but when I finally do I will make a point to relate the above story if feasible.  

EDIT: clarity.

[Edited 2014-03-05 19:07:42]
Jack @ AUS
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:46 am

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 34):
Honestly, at this point, when I see something like this I tend to assume it's fake.

I'm with you. To me, I had the gut feeling that this whole thing is a PR exercise driven by the airline. A bit of a conspiracy theory I know, but it's not unheard of. The below birthday invite scandal kind of falls into the same category:

http://www.ibtimes.com/gay-dads-birt...adio-hosts-apologize-prank-1555861

I work with a lot of PR firms in my role and the pilots response just gives me that kind of vibe.
 
Boeing744
Posts: 1760
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:27 pm

RE: Sexist Note Directed Towards Pilot On WS

Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:14 am

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 36):

I believe it was left in the actual seat the Passenger was riding on.

This is what I meant to suggest. My comment wasn't intended to suggest it was fake - only that the passenger needn't have entered the cockpit as a previous poster suggested.

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