N353SK
Posts: 1013
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:08 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:55 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 34):
I don't think 100% is right, UA does cancel a large portion of EV flights in weather situations and offers no service substitution.

In the last SKYW Inc. Shareholder call they admitted that in most of ExpressJet's CPAs United does not pay ExpressJet for weather cancellations, so this likely adds incentive to cancel.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 43):
The E175's are all assigned to Skywest flying. I don't think Skywest will pump in additional assets into the horrible EV operation.

Skywest Inc. has 100 firm and 100 options for current generation E175 aircraft as well as 100 firm and 100 options for E175 -E2 aircraft. The first 40 of these are assigned to Skywest airlines, leaving at least 160 waiting to be contracted. It would be nice if your vitriol was at least factually accurate.
 
NW747-400
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 4:42 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:01 pm

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 47):
Why did EV management agree to the contracts and hours terms that they couldn't fulfill? It's two parties that enter into an agreement. If EV signs on the dotted line then the inability to complete the contract terms is all on them. As far as I know UA has met their side of the agreement. It is EV that is not complying and in what you say is a loss making agreement. Wouldn't they know it was loss making at the outset if they know their own cost?

Yes of course they knew it was loss making. The details of CPA's are mostly confidential between the two parties, but I'd bet the terms of the UA/EV CPA were signed under threat of UA pulling the feed and going somewhere else, in which case SkyWest decided to sign on the dotted line and try to reduce costs at EV rather than lose 200+ airplanes worth of revenue. After all, UA does own all of EV's ERJ fleet. Even if UA went somewhere else, they would demand a loss making CPA, just like the CHQ EMB flying.

Sorry, but I still lay blame to UA management. They force their contractors into loss making contracts all to save a dime. They don't care much about the operational reliability of a regional as long as it is cheap.

Same thing with ground handling contracts. DL brings in new ground handling companies every few years and resets every employee's wages and benefits. Imagine working at a station for 15 years and going back to minimum wage every time the station is up for bid because a new company comes in to do it cheaper. Absolutely criminal. It doesn't matter if the previous company could do it better or that it would be near perfect under mainline. Its all about the dollar and putting a couple of extra bucks in the shareholders pockets at the expense of the operation and employees' well being.
 
inaforeignsky
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:00 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:55 pm

I'm a First Officer on the ERJ-145 at ExpressJet and I would have to say that, yes, it is imploding. It's gotten so bad over the past six months that I'm leaving to another regional in May. Life there has become unbearable.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:27 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 41):
I'm not sure how those negotiations go, but it would seem to me that it would be the legacy making a proposal to the regional and not the other way around......the legacy knows what it wants, routewise and schedulewise and asks the regional if they can do it. Wouldn't that make more sense?

I believe the mainline carrier puts out a request for bids on certain routes and schedules, and then it's up to the regionals to present their proposals for how they'll do it and how much it will cost. However it's done, the onus is still on the mainline carrier to make an honest assessment of whether the regional can follow through on what it says it can do.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 47):
Why did EV management agree to the contracts and hours terms that they couldn't fulfill?

Because otherwise they wouldn't get the contract and might be forced to downsize or go out of business. It's tough to blame a company for trying to stay in business.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 47):
It's two parties that enter into an agreement. If EV signs on the dotted line then the inability to complete the contract terms is all on them.

How can it be only EV's fault if it's two parties that enter into an agreement. EV has a duty to be realistic about what they can provide, but UA also has a duty to check to make sure that EV is being realistic. After all, it's not EV's passengers that get screwed if EV can't deliver, it's UA's. If UA didn't do their homework and just looked at the bottom line, they share just as much responsibility as EV does.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Murf
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2000 11:47 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:15 am

I read an article about how AA/US gave 10 of their top management a $79 million pat on the back and then a week later asked their Eagle/Envoy pilot group to take a pay cut...I'm not an expert when it comes to accounting but if you had to ask the pilot group for concessions, then maybe your bonus was just a little too big

This is corporate America's way of doing business...whether it be your computer tech support or in this case Regional flying, maximizing profit by lowering/cutting costs...doing more with less to keep shareholders happy is the name of the game

Management is too focused on themselves and the now of the business and not the future...their bonuses will keep coming but at the expense of their employees, their customers and in this case the quality of the Regional product too...anything after that will be the next group of managements problem

Because of this I'll speculate that since OO is profitable, EV will shrink and more flying will move to OO

Murf
 
sldispatcher
Topic Author
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:20 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 53):
If UA didn't do their homework and just looked at the bottom line, they share just as much responsibility as EV does.

Agreed! I'm tired of legacy carriers getting off scott free from troubles at Express carriers.

Quoting murf (Reply 54):
I read an article about how AA/US gave 10 of their top management a $79 million pat on the back and then a week later asked their Eagle/Envoy pilot group to take a pay cut...I'm

That sort of stuff disgusts me..and I'm very much a conservative capitalist type guy. Any sort of mediation board should look at that and simply tell the carrier management "forget it" on any cuts.

The marketplace tends to work these things out. If 50 seaters are doomed to the desert, then you know the legacy carrier can just sit back and bide their time.
 
Grisee08
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:20 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:16 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 6):
Why UAX and United do NOT work together? Or even why the UAX carriers do not assist each other more I cannot say.

quite simply put, it is not united's job to maintain the express aircraft. I heard a story that one express pilot requested that a United maintenance tech clean the windscreen, so the maintenance tech got a rag and spray bottle and handed it to the pilot, and said "not my bird." I dont know if the story is true, but figured it was worth bringing up. No I will not name names or locations.
You're Losing The Game!
 
mcdu
Posts: 1507
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:50 pm

Quoting Grisee08 (Reply 56):
quite simply put, it is not united's job to maintain the express aircraft. I heard a story that one express pilot requested that a United maintenance tech clean the windscreen, so the maintenance tech got a rag and spray bottle and handed it to the pilot, and said "not my bird." I dont know if the story is true, but figured it was worth bringing up. No I will not name names or locations.

UA mechanics are not in the window cleaning business. I call foul. Would a UAX mechanic be expected to go clean a UA airplane? One thing I have definitely noticed is the amount of perceived slights by UAX employees are often because they are new to the industry and often don't understand processes and jobs assignments. When you have no experience you have little knowledge and you see them form opinions based on poor understanding.

UAX carriers don't work for UA. They work for a carrier that is responsible for maintaining their own fleet. If they aren't willing to provide those services they need to shutdown.
 
sldispatcher
Topic Author
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:12 pm

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 57):
UAX carriers don't work for UA. They work for a carrier that is responsible for maintaining their own fleet. If they aren't willing to provide those services they need to shutdown.

I probably won't see it anytime soon, but it would be nice to bring all aircraft and operations back under the mainline banner.

Just yesterday I did another random check of several UAX operations in the area and around via IAH related spokes. Multiple delays/crew issues.

It is just sad more than anything. They were the pinnacle of regional operators along with Skywest at one time.
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5019
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:52 pm

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 57):
One thing I have definitely noticed is the amount of perceived slights by UAX employees are often because they are new to the industry and often don't understand processes and jobs assignments. When you have no experience you have little knowledge and you see them form opinions based on poor understanding.

Not to bust your bubble there, but UA hires people with zero industry experience as well, who can end up just as mis-informed.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 57):
UAX carriers don't work for UA.

Actually, yes, they do per contract.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 57):
They work for a carrier that is responsible for maintaining their own fleet. If they aren't willing to provide those services they need to shutdown.

Different stations have different policies, so whoever cleans the windows is entirely dependent on who is working at a particular airport.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1507
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:28 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 59):
Actually, yes, they do per contract.

What do their pay checks say? Skywest corp work for UA via contract. The Skywest employees work for Skywest.

Quoting Mir (Reply 53):
Because otherwise they wouldn't get the contract and might be forced to downsize or go out of business. It's tough to blame a company for trying to stay in business

Seems very irresponsible to unberbid a contract that guarantees a corporate loss. The Skywest BOD should be outraged at such actions. I suppose it is par for the course for carriers that don't have a understanding of the industry. No wonder their own employees are so far removed from reality.
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5019
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 60):
What do their pay checks say?

I would assume that if a check were actually written to SkyWest, it would say 'United' on it.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 60):
Skywest corp work for UA via contract.

That's what I just said.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 60):
The Skywest employees work for Skywest.

Yet, if they are working a United station/flight, they are still working for United. United's policies and obligations don't change if the vendor does.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 60):
I suppose it is par for the course for carriers that don't have a understanding of the industry.

They have a perfectly good understanding of the industry, but they are working within the constraints of what they are given. The BOD would know full well what's going on because they run businesses in other sectors and are more in tune to the cyclic nature of business than most anyone here. For them to demand closing Expressjet because of a 'money losing' bid without taking into consideration alternatives, repercussions, and future possibilities would be highly irresponsible.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
JA
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:02 am

How many pilots are assigned to each base for ERJ operations?

CLE
DEN
EWR
IAD
IAH
MCI
ORD
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:48 am

Quoting durangomac (Reply 49):
Then she was probably selecting trips with that because that wasn't the norm until FAR 117.

I doubt if she would deliberately bid those type of trips as it keep her away from the family. She bid "standups" just for that reason.

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 61):
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 60):The Skywest employees work for Skywest.
Yet, if they are working a United station/flight, they are still working for United. United's policies and obligations don't change if the vendor does.

When my daughter was working in SLC as a F/A for SkyWest, she worked both DL and UA flights, but I'm sure she was employed by SkyWest. When she first started, she was having trouble remembering which carrier she was working on a particular flight and which boarding announcement to make. I told her to stick her head out the door and see what the livery looked like.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
mcdu
Posts: 1507
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:56 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 63):
When my daughter was working in SLC as a F/A for SkyWest, she worked both DL and UA flights, but I'm sure she was employed by SkyWest. When she first started, she was having trouble remembering which carrier she was working on a particular flight and which boarding announcement to make. I told her to stick her head out the door and see what the livery looked like.

With the rare exception of merger faux pas I don't think mainline employees ever wonder who they are flying for on a particular flight. Your post solidifies the argument that Skywest employees certainly don't work for the mainline carrier. They work for Skywest with contracted terms to meet the needs of the mainline carrier. Just because DL or UA tell the express carrier the requirements to fulfill the contract ; ie what announcements and policies of the mainline carrier are to be applied. It certainly doesn't mean they work for the mainline carrier. Skywest employees don't work for the mainline carrier anymore than the contract lav service or cabin cleaners do at certain stations.
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5019
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:24 am

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 64):
Your post solidifies the argument that Skywest employees certainly don't work for the mainline carrier. They work for Skywest with contracted terms to meet the needs of the mainline carrier. Just because DL or UA tell the express carrier the requirements to fulfill the contract ; ie what announcements and policies of the mainline carrier are to be applied. It certainly doesn't mean they work for the mainline carrier. Skywest employees don't work for the mainline carrier anymore than the contract lav service or cabin cleaners do at certain stations.

I never said that the employees of an express carrier actually worked for the mainline (aside from following policies.) You, on the other hand, stated that the carriers don't work for mainline, which I noted per contract was not true. If you call EZ Plumbing, the plumber himself might not be working for you, but that plumbing company certainly is, per contract.

Here is the full quote to note that you were talking about a carrier, and not an individual employee. Maybe that wasn't your intention, but that's how it reads.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 57):
UAX carriers don't work for UA. They work for a carrier that is responsible for maintaining their own fleet. If they aren't willing to provide those services they need to shutdown
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:33 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:04 pm

Quoting azstar (Reply 12):
Skywest, which owns Expressjet is not much better. I live in a city which is both a crew and maintenance base. There have been several days where every single UA departure, 22 of them, were OVER an hour late. Some 2,3,4 hours. One day I was waiting to board an Expressjet flight. The captain told the gate agent they needed an "air start" which is an external unit that blows hot air into the engine. For OO aircraft it's done by Skywest maintenance. However, when UA operations called OO maintenance they said they would not come to the aircraft unless they got a "work order" from Expressjet. The captain didn't even know it was required. They would not do the air start and worry about the work order later. Eventually, there was a ramp crew member who knew how to do it, and the flight eventually was able to leave. However, if the ramper didn't help, the flight would have been cancelled, or delayed longer. Really unacceptable IMO.

What city are you talking about? Maintenance does not do airstarts.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 3805
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:41 pm

Quoting CWAFlyer (Reply 66):

Exactly. Air starts are normally always done by the ramp agents. It's a core competency.

I can see maintenance wanting to create a work order to do one. If someone wants a mechanic to come do something they are not required to do, they should be charged for it.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
azstar
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 5:25 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:01 pm

Fact. In TUS, air starts are all done by Skywest maintenance. They are NOT done by the ramp agents.
 
BDL757
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:49 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:19 pm

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 35):
Interesting that EV's Delta side doesn't seem to have the same problems for us.

No, they suck on the DL side too! We have the same issues with broken planes, missing/no show crews, and nobody answering the phone at home (EV OCC).
 
175erj
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:25 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:41 pm

ExpressJet is an operational nightmare. The end. This is not the fault of SkyWest, INC, or United. It solely lies on the employees who are charged with running the operation day in and day out. Maintenance, Flight Ops, Dispatch, etc. ExpressJet lost in excess of 50 million dollars last year and the investors are becoming very tired of this type of performance and I believe SkyWest Inc is poised to make a move to put an end to the losses and abysmal performance. There is absolutely no re-fleeting plan for ExpressJet and none of the planes currently on order are slated to make their way to ExpressJet as of today. The employees of ExpressJet like to play the blame game and blame SkyWest for purposely setting them up to fail and doing nothing to assist, but that's simply not the case.

SkyWest is in far better shape then ExpressJet and are consistently the top performer for the 5 major partners they fly for. AA, AS, DL, UA, US.
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:33 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:41 pm

Whose ground equipment is it? Did UA take their stuff out when MQ took over?

Quoting azstar (Reply 68):
Fact. In TUS, air starts are all done by Skywest maintenance. They are NOT done by the ramp agents.

Is this just since MQ took over the ground handling? Or before that?
 
175erj
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:25 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:45 pm

Quoting CWAFlyer (Reply 71):

It depends. In some stations OO mx will perform an airstart and in others the ramp will do it.

As far as OO not performing work on a EV plane, its true. Not without a work order. Its two separate certificates thus they can not freely work on each others planes. Different procedures, policies, mx practices, manuals, etc. This a work order is required to be completed, much like contract maintenance. Even for an airstart. You don't just go out and start playing with another operators airplanes.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1890
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:48 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 70):
ExpressJet is an operational nightmare. The end. This is not the fault of SkyWest, INC, or United. It solely lies on the employees who are charged with running the operation day in and day out. Maintenance, Flight Ops, Dispatch, etc. ExpressJet lost in excess of 50 million dollars last year and the investors are becoming very tired of this type of performance and I believe SkyWest Inc is poised to make a move to put an end to the losses and abysmal performance. There is absolutely no re-fleeting plan for ExpressJet and none of the planes currently on order are slated to make their way to ExpressJet as of today. The employees of ExpressJet like to play the blame game and blame SkyWest for purposely setting them up to fail and doing nothing to assist, but that's simply not the case.

From the comments that I've heard from the ExpressJet employees, they're losing dozens of employees every week. I just spoke with an ERJ Captain who said that they're losing pilots to the majors and the company isn't replacing them; he was unsure if they weren't able to or are just not trying to replace them.

I'm in fairly regular contact with several EV employees and they all say that the situation is untenable. But they also say that they don't know what's going to happen.

Is OO just going to let EV wither on the vine? If I held OO stock, I'd be very unhappy.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5019
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 73):
Is OO just going to let EV wither on the vine? If I held OO stock, I'd be very unhappy.

Based on comments from the latest earnings report, I think the biggest investors would actually prefer that to happen.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:33 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:46 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 72):
It depends. In some stations OO mx will perform an airstart and in others the ramp will do it.

I asked specifically about TUS as this used to be a UA handled station until recently. Whose GPU and huffer was UA using previously? And what other SkyWest mx bases are the mechanics doing airstarts opposed to the ramp or borrowing from another handler? My guess in TUS is that MQ did not include air starts or the ground equipment to do them when they bid on the ground handling, which would explain OO mx doing it in TUS.
 
175erj
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:25 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:55 pm

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 73):

It's common knowledge that United wants to park 50 seaters and ExpressJet is operating most these contracts at a loss so I expect some mutual agreement for United to allow ExpressJet out of some contracts to park planes and renegotiate terms to keep some of the lift... also, SkyWest will probably pick up the flying on the 175.
 
N353SK
Posts: 1013
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:08 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:01 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 70):
This is not the fault of SkyWest, INC, or United. It solely lies on the employees who are charged with running the operation day in and day out. Maintenance, Flight Ops, Dispatch, etc.

In the latest Skywest Inc. Shareholder conference call, Brad Rich admitted that E145 contracts with United do not allow compensation for weather cancellations. How is this massive loss of revenue the fault of the day in and day out employees?
 
175erj
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:25 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:19 pm

Quoting N353SK (Reply 77):

Wasn't referring to the loss of revenue but the absolutely abysmal operational performance.
 
azstar
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 5:25 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:42 pm

Quoting CWAFlyer (Reply 75):
I asked specifically about TUS as this used to be a UA handled station until recently. Whose GPU and huffer was UA using previously? And what other SkyWest mx bases are the mechanics doing airstarts opposed to the ramp or borrowing from another handler? My guess in TUS is that MQ did not include air starts or the ground equipment to do them when they bid on the ground handling, which would explain OO mx doing it in TUS.

On three occasions over the past year or two the aircraft needed an air start while I was waiting to board and the agent told me that we had to wait for the mechanics to come over from their hangar because they were the only ones authorized to do it .I don't know when UA changed over to a contractor, but I think it was Nov or Dec 2013, so these situations were definitely before then.
 
ual777
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:43 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 70):

That's just not true. The problem is the rates UA is paying are too low. This has been stated over and over again. Add in large ORD and EWR ops that have been crushed by weather lately and this is what you get.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
N353SK
Posts: 1013
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:08 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:51 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 78):
Wasn't referring to the loss of revenue but the absolutely abysmal operational performance.

Ok, then please enlighten us as to what Skywest employees do on a day to day basis that other airlines don't that makes them so profitable.
 
sldispatcher
Topic Author
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:40 pm

What hasn't been stated in this thread but is a compounding problem with ExpressJet was the outsourcing of the ground handling/gate agent services that I recall occurred about the same time the downward spiral began.

That has not helped the situation at all. I have seen many try as hard as they could, but then others are epic fails with poor attitudes.

One of my biggest irritants is the lack of updating estimated flight times on the Express side. If it weren't for the United app/site allowing one to trace back where the plane is coming from, I wouldn't be aware of delays until AFTER the scheduled arrival if I depended on posted info. One of the biggest irritants I have is when a crew comes in late for a RON. "They", the company, KNOWS that the crew will be late out the next AM.. BUT it is not updated until nearly departure time...AND no one has been given the option to reschedule/rebook until it is too late.

I would like to know who is responsible for updating the flight time info. United? Express contractor? The station? Dispatch?
 
175erj
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:25 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:52 pm

Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 82):

It's ExpressJet...and that's exactly what I am talking about. Their operations people are completely falling behind, thus the company and airline is falling behind. Im talking about the same company that cancels flights but fails to notify the stations or crews and they only find out when the plane is boarded and the captain tries to run his numbers and he can't. The people are NOT to blame for the financial losses, but they are to blame for the performance.

Quoting ual777 (Reply 80):

It is true. Are you blaming the poor contracts on the poor operational performance? No. The employees have control over the performance. Scheduling, Dispatch, Crews. If they aren't stepping up to the plate and doing their part to at least run the airline halfway decent then there is nobody to blame but themselves.

Quoting N353SK (Reply 81):

Their jobs. It's as simple as that. You can't blame poor performance on poor contracts. You blame it on poor attitudes of those working for ExpressJet and them not performing to the standards they should be.

[Edited 2014-03-09 15:53:01]
 
ual777
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:52 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 83):

The rates have caused a bunch of management decisions that have hurt operational performance. The crews themselves are just flat out beat due to staffing shortages. Again a large amount of the operational numbers come from large EWR and ORD ops. Again the contracts are at "below market rates" and that is driving most of the losses.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
175erj
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:25 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:37 am

Quoting ual777 (Reply 84):

Never disputed the bad contracts.

But SkyWest also operates in areas prone to delays. SFO, ORD, DEN ...

You can make all the excuses you want. Fact is, ExpressJet is imploding and there are many factors. The pilots want to complain about concessions, but when they aren't making money nobody is going to offer them a raise. The only hope here and I think its coming, is United wanting to expedite the parking of 50 seaters and SKW Inc will happily oblige.

[Edited 2014-03-09 17:40:12]

Additionally, performance across the board is lacking everywhere due to these contract outstations who simply don't care enough to try to turn the plane on-time or provide good customer service. They don't get benefits on these airlines they handle, they get paid peanuts, they simply just dont care.


[Edited 2014-03-09 17:41:36]
 
sldispatcher
Topic Author
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:49 am

Quoting 175erj (Reply 83):
If they aren't stepping up to the plate and doing their part to at least run the airline halfway decent then there is nobody to blame but themselves.
Quoting 175erj (Reply 83):
You blame it on poor attitudes of those working for ExpressJet and them not performing to the standards they should be
Quoting 175erj (Reply 85):
The only hope here and I think its coming, is United wanting to expedite the parking of 50 seaters and SKW Inc will happily oblige.

Can't disagree with any of those statements. Much like the ASE thing being discussed elsewhere, a person still has an obligation to do the job they have been employed to do. If they don't like it, go elsewhere with an appropriate notice.
 
User avatar
northwestEWR
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:45 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:19 am

I don't think it's fair to blame the ground staff at outstations (at least not all of them)--I work for one of them (for "peanuts" but flight benefits) and our entire station BUSTS A to operate smoothly but performance issues at the regionals and delay prone airports (ORD/DEN/EWR) cause constant problems. If I can't turn an aircraft in 24 minutes, it's not because we aren't trying and don't care, it's because I have 10 people left at the podium that just got rebooked from a delayed/cancelled TSA/XJT flight. We aren't going to make a situation worse by leaving them behind.

[Edited 2014-03-09 19:19:55]
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
175erj
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:25 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:27 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 87):

Agreed. It's not all of them, but it is a majority of them....but it does make things worse. It delays the entire line of flying downline. It's just the nature of the beast.
 
ABQopsHP
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 10:47 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:37 am

After leaving US on medical. I went to work for Expressjet for 5 yrs from 07-12.When CO cut the reins back in 07 and the company was on its own you could see that maybe things were not right. At first we all thought the merger with ASA was to be a good thing. All these big people from ATL came to talk to us, but we never got any real clear answers. That was my tip off that it was not going to go well, having been down a couple of mergers myself. Not long after the merger I was working the gate and looking for the status of an a/c, where was it, and when was it coming from IAH. Because of the merger, and CO/UA not letting us use their computer system anymore for a/c tracking it had become havoc. When I called ATL it rang who knows how many times before this fella answered and said I had called the CRJ desk. I told him I dont even have that number, Im looking for ERJ. He forwards me, only for it to go in full circle back to CRJ. So I made an announcement and told everyone what I knew. We would all be lost together, and I started rebooking, only to have the plane call inrange 15 mins later. No one had bother to enter times either into ACARS or the computers. In 2012 UA decided EV no longer had the ground contract and outsouorced the outsource stations. I was laid off. And to be honest, I was glad. I was tired of coming to work and having TSA and WN employees say to me every day "you look tired". That told me enough was enough. I now have a friend of mine who has been Capt for EV commuting from CRP for years, who is throwing in the towel, and getting a job elsewhere. Its sad when a career Capt has to quit, because he cant get through to Crew scheduling, MX, Dispatch or even the desks that assign hotels, when they are at the airport and no hotel has a spot for them. So in my assessment? Yes EV is in free fall. What a sad story.
JD CRP
ABQ ops, Cactus 202 requesting you order 5 Green Chile Chicken stew for us to p/u on arrival. ;)
 
ual777
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:00 am

Quoting 175erj (Reply 85):

They aren't excuses, I'm just telling you what it is. I have a feeling you work for OO and that's fine. The EV pilots were not looking for raises, just something close to what they had and a future. When management handed them that draconian contract with no concrete future, what are they supposed to do? SFO can be bad I'll admit but DEN pales to ORD and especially EWR where EV has over half the ERJ operation based. Then there is the whole OO bid when EV had the rates reset on the ERJ but that's another can of worms.

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 89):

I believe I know said captain and he is a great guy. EV has a fantastic pilot group and it's a shame to see them all heading for the door.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
ggflyboy
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:10 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:13 am

Slightly off topic... except maybe for the lack of customer service/integration with mainline issues discussed above.

I've been asking United customer service to identify the rows with the extra oxygen mask on ExpressJet's 145's... they don't seem to know. Seatguru still has the old row numbering...

Anyone here have the scoop?
 
bhmdiversion
Posts: 278
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:41 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:58 pm

This is my opinion only... I am not speaking for or on behalf of ExpressJet.

Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 82):It's ExpressJet...and that's exactly what I am talking about. Their operations people are completely falling behind, thus the company and airline is falling behind. Im talking about the same company that cancels flights but fails to notify the stations or crews and they only find out when the plane is boarded and the captain tries to run his numbers and he can't. The people are NOT to blame for the financial losses, but they are to blame for the performance.

If this is going to become the blame game, then ask the pilots who "accidently" missed their deadhead to IAH from 3 hours prior, then call scheduling and tell them they are still in OKC needing a hotel room? Also, ask the FA's who refused a trip because they weren't "notified" properly by a phone call or Crew Tracker in the Hub - do we need to hold their hand as well? Once again, how is this the fault of the Dispatcher in OCC?

Outstations are notified by OCC - however, if its an Eagle/DGS/GAT or split UA Mainline/Eagle operation such as DSM/ICT/etc. - these stations don't pick the phone up, nor talk to each other because they will say "thats the other side... cal them". Once again, if the want to go back and use Y messages or email for everything, I'm sure the OCC would have NO problems doing that for them.

Quoting ual777 (Reply 80):It is true. Are you blaming the poor contracts on the poor operational performance? No. The employees have control over the performance. Scheduling, Dispatch, Crews. If they aren't stepping up to the plate and doing their part to at least run the airline halfway decent then there is nobody to blame but themselves.

Hang on there cowboy... Dispatchers are doing their part. It's not the Dispatchers fault if scheduling doesn't have the staff to pick up when the pilot calls allegedly for an extension time? Unfortunately, that's not their responsibility.

Quoting N353SK (Reply 81):Their jobs. It's as simple as that. You can't blame poor performance on poor contracts. You blame it on poor attitudes of those working for ExpressJet and them not performing to the standards they should be.[Edited 2014-03-09 15:53:01]

This is what Legacy ExpressJet from IAH did to themselves. Their management signed the contracts with UA and with CO. They were losing money hand over fist; however, this is now a SkyWest problem? These contracts should be amended, to actual do-able rates with UA, then also IMHO take the crew bases in CLE/MCI/IAD and close them. Reallocate these crews to EWR/IAH/ORD along with take the EP's and 37 seaters to the desert and actually make a working operation with available spare crews and aircraft.

Most (not all) of the issues are self inflicted gunshot wounds to the foot. Don't make Dispatch cause of all the issues - they are doing their part, and doing it rather well.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1890
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:10 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 92):
Don't make Dispatch cause of all the issues - they are doing their part, and doing it rather well.

Don't you think that the other employee groups feel the same way? That is, they're doing their jobs, but there's a shortfall somewhere else?

You wrote a long post blaming the people - "but they are to blame for the performance" for example - but then exempt your own group. Interesting, to say the least.

It seems that the "what" of the problems is well known. If they want to solve the problems, then ExpressJet needs to identify the "why."

And yes, it's very much SkyWest's problem now. That is, the parent is responsible for the child.

[Edited 2014-03-10 07:22:50]
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
C767P
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:11 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:30 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 92):
This is what Legacy ExpressJet from IAH did to themselves. Their management signed the contracts with UA and with CO. They were losing money hand over fist; however, this is now a SkyWest problem?

OO did know about the contracts before the purchase!
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:33 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:47 pm

Quoting azstar (Reply 79):
On three occasions over the past year or two the aircraft needed an air start while I was waiting to board and the agent told me that we had to wait for the mechanics to come over from their hangar because they were the only ones authorized to do it .I don't know when UA changed over to a contractor, but I think it was Nov or Dec 2013, so these situations were definitely before then.

From what I have been able to determine, mx in TUS started doing them when UA lost the ground handling contract to MQ in December. If they were happening before the change over, it sounds similar to UA in SLC not using their air start on SkyWest airplanes. They will call SkyWest Ops and have a SkyWest ramp employee do them
 
BC77008
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:48 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:37 am

Quoting ggflyboy (Reply 91):
Slightly off topic... except maybe for the lack of customer service/integration with mainline issues discussed above.

I've been asking United customer service to identify the rows with the extra oxygen mask on ExpressJet's 145's... they don't seem to know. Seatguru still has the old row numbering...

Anyone here have the scoop?

Rows 3CD/7CD/11CD/21CD/24ACD
MY favorite airline and hub is bigger and/or better than YOUR favorite airline and hub!
 
ggflyboy
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:10 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:49 am

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 96):
Rows 3CD/7CD/11CD/21CD/24ACD

Thanks!
 
N908AW
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:05 pm

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:01 am

Quoting ggflyboy (Reply 91):
Slightly off topic... except maybe for the lack of customer service/integration with mainline issues discussed above.

I've been asking United customer service to identify the rows with the extra oxygen mask on ExpressJet's 145's... they don't seem to know. Seatguru still has the old row numbering...

Anyone here have the scoop?

If you're traveling with an infant or something, then they will have to reseat you at the gate if you aren't already in an extra mask row. I guess they don't do a very good job of organizing that information online but pretty much any gate agent knows where they are.
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
ThePinnacleKid
Posts: 529
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:47 am

RE: Is ExpressJet Imploding From Within?

Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:09 am

Quoting C767P (Reply 94):
OO did know about the contracts before the purchase!

ADDITIONALLY... SkyWest, Inc. negotiated a NEW contract with CO/UA for L-XJT FOR the purchase of XJT. The contract XJT does with UA is the one negotiated when OO purchased L-XE.... So yeah, that underperforming loss making contract.. that's OO's.

Oh, and to the operational issues... funny thing is.. the ONLY part of L-XJT that changed post purchase by OO and merger into EV... oh, XE got EV/OO mgmt. and OCC.... most the L-XJT OCC people all could see the writing on the wall and as IAH was shut down... they went to CO/UA as oppose to move to ATL. (Funny part, it's not really EV mgmt. the CEO isn't a CEO... he's a COO... and he's SkyWest, INC...)

The new ExpressJet and SkyWest are one in the same... with two different operations people at the helm.. but the upper management are all Inc.
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos