KELPkid
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:23 am

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 22):
I'm sure this will be lost in the post after post of people. Heck, maybe someone already shared.

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571

The aircraft had major damage history. Might be a good place to start a investigation.

That is really not very major damage...of course, a poorly executed repair (like Japan Airlines 123) can change the game, though. I hope that the accident is not related to post-incident repairs 
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PHX787
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:24 am

This is so sad. I'm getting multiple reports quoting the Vietnamese navy apparently finding the crashed plane.
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Thenoflyzone
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:25 am

Two China Airlines aircraft just did 360 turns over South China sea, just east of Da Nang, Vietnam, where the aircraft might have gone down.

Maybe picking up ELT signals?

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL862/2d9162c

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL782/2d9126b

Edit: Scratch that, looks like deliberate turns assigned by ATC to establish non radar spacing over South China Sea.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:31:09]
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holzmann
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:25 am

So what is the status of this AC pitot tubes being heated? These had not been installed on AF447.
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LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:25 am

The earlier report of an ELT was 120 miles SW of cape Ca Mau.

That is a rough match for 153 miles south of Phu Quoc, I think.
 
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BoeingVista
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:26 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 94):
It flew into a storm that caused high altitude pitot tube icing, which was the start of the incident. Doesn't seem like that would be a factor here.

It flew into an area of icing, it never reached the storm.
BV
 
laxboeingman
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:26 am

http://my.news.yahoo.com/malaysian-a...-flight-live-report-050312770.html

AFP via Yahoo - timeline of events.

"05:13 GMT - Never appeared - A Vietnam government statement on its official website quoting a ministry of defence official says the plane was meant to transfer to Ho Chi Minh City air traffic control at 1722 GMT but never appeared.

The statement goes on to say that Vietnam's Ministry of Defence has launched rescue efforts to find the plane, working in coordination with Malaysian and Chinese officials."

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:28:37]
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hivue
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:27 am

Quoting holzmann (Reply 103):
So what is the status of this AC pitot tubes being heated?

All commercial aircraft pitot tubes are heated.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
kaitak
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:28 am

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 97):
Do you think the plane would be sticking out or is there probable cause to think it - God forbid - sunk? If they latter, do you think it could be spotted?

If it crashed into the sea, it would have disintegrated on impact (if it was still in one piece, which of course we don't know); debris and bodies would be floating on the surface, but the main parts of the fuselage would have sunk.

It is broad daylight now and if - as reported - the weather is calm - search aircraft would have found wreckage by now.
 
damirc
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:30 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 102):
Two China Airlines aircraft just did 360 turns over South China sea, where the aircraft might have gone down.

Maybe picking up ELT signals?

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL862/2d9162c

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL782/2d9126b

Add TG610 to the list of looping planes:

http://www.flightradar24.com/TG610/2d914b4

D.
 
LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:30 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 102):
Two China Airlines aircraft just did 360 turns over South China sea, just east of Da Nang, Vietnam, where the aircraft might have gone down.

Doesn't appear to be anywhere near the reported crash area.
 
laxboeingman
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:32 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 108):
It is broad daylight now and if - as reported - the weather is calm - search aircraft would have found wreckage by now.

Thank you, good to know.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 108):
If it crashed into the sea, it would have disintegrated on impac

How do we know that to be the case?
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turjo101
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:32 am

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL834/2d91525

another one is in process of doing another loop.
 
airplanedaj
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:32 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 102):

Two China Airlines aircraft just did 360 turns over South China sea, where the aircraft might have gone down.

Maybe picking up ELT signals?

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL862/2d9162c

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL782/2d9126b

Thenoflyzone

Unfortunately, these planes are on the wrong side of Vietnam to be circling over the crash site, which is about 120-150 miles off the SW coast of Vietnam.
 
Stackhouse007
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:32 am

All 3 of these posted links to planes circling are in completely different places and the TG610 circling was over land..
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PITrules
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:32 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 77):
But it's then their job, (the media) to qualify what they report. It's certainly not our job.

I agree - when it comes to reporting facts. But before the facts roll in it is natural to bring in experts for their opinion. That's what CNN did by bringing in Greg Feith and James Kallstrom, and that's fine even though neither one of those guys know any 'facts' about the topic at hand at the time any more than we do.

It is great when members post weather charts, technical data about the B-777, draw comparisons to past accidents, etc etc. but when people state things like "My cousin Willie is a pilot so it must have been pilot error" or "Perhaps North Korea shot it down" I think it lowers the standard of this forum. Just MHO.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:36:40]
FLYi
 
turjo101
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:33 am

There maybe something we don't know...Otherwise why are all these aircrafts doing loops?
 
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Finn350
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:34 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 104):
The earlier report of an ELT was 120 miles SW of cape Ca Mau.That is a rough match for 153 miles south of Phu Quoc, I think.

If the news report is accurate, the crash location was established from a miltary radar.

If the ELTs (Emergency Locator Transmitters) had been activated, they would have known immediately the crash location. The ELTs transmit GPS position of the crash as part of their signal. Apparently the same as with the AF447, the plane crashed into the sea with such a force that there was no time for the ELTs to activate.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:47:24]
 
Thenoflyzone
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:34 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 110):

Doesn't appear to be anywhere near the reported crash area.

Reports on CBC here in Canada was that the crash site might be on the East coast of Vietnam, in the South China Sea, which concurs with a 2+ hour flight time from KUL.

But as i edited above, i now believe the 360 turns are ATC related to establish non radar spacing over the Ocean.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
laxboeingman
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:34 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 110):
Doesn't appear to be anywhere near the reported crash area.

Is the thought it crashed South-Southewest of Vietnam or South-Southeast of Vietnam?
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turjo101
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:35 am

Actually is there even any point to doing these loops...would they be able to see anything from 33-37000 ft up?
 
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reffado
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:37 am

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 121):

In clear skies, you can see odd colored points (floating debris) in the ocean.
 
timpdx
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:38 am

Just tuned into this story, so sorry to hear about the apparent loss of so many souls. RIP. At cruise altitude with no crew communication? Different than AF447 IMO, since landfall is so close and any distress coms should have been heard and the the flightradar shows some flights in proximity that could have heard a distress call. Any chance it was undetected damage from the wing strike leading to catastrophic failure and no radio call? Sea is is not deep in that area unlike AF447 so hope investigators get the data and voice recorders. Apparently first "mass casualty" fatal 777 accident...hope I am wrong.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:42:16]
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JBirdAV8r
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:38 am

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 121):
Actually is there even any point to doing these loops...would they be able to see anything from 33-37000 ft up?

While it might be hard to detect debris specifically, a fuel sheen might be visible.

And it's better than nothing.

My prayers and thoughts are with everyone touched.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
AustinAllison
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:39 am

The reason they are looping is to search for wreckage in different spots. Cover more area, ya know.
 
TwoFourLeft
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:40 am

I am very confused. News is saying that it was south of the Vietnamese coast. So what is with the other planes circling over the South China Sea? Not sure they are related.
 
adityashankar
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:41 am

Hey guys,

It's bad news....

http://www.airlinereporter.com/2014/...sia-airlines-flight-mh370-missing/

Quote of the headline: "UPDATED: Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, a Boeing 777-200ER has crashed near Vietnam"
Spreading the Joy of Flight
 
laxboeingman
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:42 am

Quoting TwoFourLeft (Reply 126):
I am very confused. News is saying that it was south of the Vietnamese coast. So what is with the other planes circling over the South China Sea? Not sure they are related.

Now three planes near one another flying east in South China Sea. I am not sure why they were looping in that area based on discussions earlier in the thread.

http://www.flightradar24.com/CPA766/2d90d64
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LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:43 am

So far the reports seem to have it near Tho Chu island in the Gulf of Thailand, but nothing has been confirmed.

One would think if it had crossed over Vietnam, we would know that from radar and other reports.
 
laxboeingman
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:43 am

"05:25 GMT - Airline CEO's statement -
Malaysian Airlines is running a statement given by Group CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya on its Facebook site, in which he expresses his sadness and confirms Flight MH370 "lost contact with Subang Air Traffic Control at 2.40am, today."
He adds there has been "speculation" the plan had landed at Nanming, in China. "We are working to verify the authenticity of the report and others."
The statement also gives a breakdown of the 239 passengers and crew – comprising 227 passengers (including 2 infants), 12 crew members."

http://my.news.yahoo.com/malaysian-a...-flight-live-report-050312770.html
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turjo101
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:44 am

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 124):

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 121):
Actually is there even any point to doing these loops...would they be able to see anything from 33-37000 ft up?

While it might be hard to detect debris specifically, a fuel sheen might be visible.

And it's better than nothing.

If this is so...they should also get planes over the Gulf of Thailand doing loops...
CX634 is approaching the area of last contact
as are AK1035
 
Airvan00
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:44 am

Quoting TwoFourLeft (Reply 126):

They are not related. As mentioned above aircraft need to loose time when transitting from a radar type environment to a procedural type enviorment.
 
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airportugal310
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:44 am

Reply 119 probably eludes best as to why they were circling...establish spacing
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
ZKOJH
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:45 am

just reading the press release from Malaysian airlines -

''The flight was piloted by Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, a Malaysian aged 53. He has a total flying hours of 18,365hours. He joined Malaysia Airlines in 1981. First officer, Fariq Ab.Hamid, a Malaysian, is aged 27. He has a total flying hours of 2,763 hours. He joined Malaysia Airlines in 2007.''

starts to ring bells of SFO again...

My wife's company has a group on board and is waiting at the airport.   what a shocking week for China.

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/dark-site.html
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hivue
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:45 am

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 128):
Quoting TwoFourLeft (Reply 126):I am very confused. News is saying that it was south of the Vietnamese coast. So what is with the other planes circling over the South China Sea? Not sure they are related.
Now three planes near one another flying east in South China Sea. I am not sure why they were looping in that area based on discussions earlier in the thread.

See thenoflyzone's post 119 above.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:45 am

The various reports are quite confusing...
 
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reffado
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:51 am

 
LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:53 am

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 118):
The ELTs transmit GPS position of the crash as part of their signal

I recall during research on the 787 ELT incident, that not all ELTs transmit GPS info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergen...cator_Transmitter#Beacon_Operation
 
laxboeingman
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:53 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 135):
See thenoflyzone's post 119 above.

I saw, thanks.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 134):
''The flight was piloted by Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, a Malaysian aged 53. He has a total flying hours of 18,365hours. He joined Malaysia Airlines in 1981. First officer, Fariq Ab.Hamid, a Malaysian, is aged 27. He has a total flying hours of 2,763 hours. He joined Malaysia Airlines in 2007.''

I was waiting to find out that information. I was wondering if the captain did not have a lot of experience, but this proves the opposite. Even though the first officer was young, he was still with the airline for seven years.

If the captain was not paying attention or if he was on his rest period, I can see why you may bring up SFO. If the captain, however, was paying attention or fully awake in the cockpit, I am not sure if this was pilot error because he certainly was experienced.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 134):
starts to ring bells of SFO again...

I know where you could get that idea from, but this is different because it was at cursing altitude and not during landing, which is a more dangerous state of flight. SFO had to do with speed and I am not sure we have anything to indicate that is the case here. At the same time, though, we have nothing to indicate speed was not a factor.
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FlyingSicilian
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:54 am

Quoting Reffado (Reply 137):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370

Christ, you guys are fast.

Someone posted pictures of the flight manifest with all names on Facebook over an hour ago...

Thoughts and prayers to all involved in this. Still hopeing for a miracle but thinking the worst sadly.
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laxboeingman
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:55 am

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 139):
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 134):
starts to ring bells of SFO again...

I know where you could get that idea from, but this is different because it was at cursing altitude and not during landing, which is a more dangerous state of flight. SFO had to do with speed and I am not sure we have anything to indicate that is the case here. At the same time, though, we have nothing to indicate speed was not a factor.

And...call this speculation, which it is, but I find it very hard to believe it was caused by an error in speed in which it suddenly fell out of the sky because it was not going fast enough.
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TwoFourLeft
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:57 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 134):
starts to ring bells of SFO again...

WAAAAAAAAY too early to be making statements like that. We have absolutely no idea what took place that led to this accident.
 
Airvan00
Posts: 236
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:58 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 138):

Newer ELB's (406 MHz ) transmitt location information. I would expect that all airworthiness authorities now require that the latest style of beacons are fitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_radiobeacon

[Edited 2014-03-07 22:01:47]
 
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Finn350
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:59 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 138):
I recall during research on the 787 ELT incident, that not all ELTs transmit GPS info.

No, but I am pretty confident that the 777 ELTs are GPS-capable.
 
 
Chaostheory
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:00 am

Quoting holzmann (Reply 103):
So what is the status of this AC pitot tubes being heated? These had not been installed on AF447.

The B777 has three heated pitots: left, centre and right. The primary flight display is not affected by a single pitot probe heat failure.
 
KFlyer
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:01 am

Do we have really clarified the location where the a/c went missing? As per FR24 data, this would be around 40 mins from KUL, likely somewhere near waypoint IGARI. But multiple news reports indicate this was two hours away from KUL.
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laxboeingman
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:07 am

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...200-had-uneventful-history-396793/

Here is a link to a story about the e/q and its history.
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sq452
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:09 am

Quoting timpdx (Reply 123):
Apparently first "mass casualty" fatal 777 accident...hope I am wrong.

Yes you would be correct in saying that this would be the first "mass casualty" incident for this aircraft.

The only other 777 incident with fatalities was the Asiana crash in SFO last summer (3 fatalities).

This plane has a truly remarkable safety record when you think about it; it has been in service for 20 or so years and only suffered 3 hull losses before this incident, and only 3 fatalities associated with any incidents before today. Something must have gone terribly wrong enroute and we can all only speculate at this point.

It has been pointed out that this particular aircraft in question for MH was involved in a collision in PVG a couple years back where its wing clipped the tail of an MU A340-600. I don't believe that that would be something that would factor into this incident with MH370 unless it was structural fatigue from the repairs that just built up over a period of time. I would find that hard to believe given the plane would probably have gone through a rigorous inspection between now and today. I wouldn't rule it out completely though.

The parallel I drew with AF447 was that this flight just 'vanished' mid-flight; we of course won't know the reasons for MH370 disappearing for some time I'd imagine (search and rescue, recovery and investigation will all take time), but the question I have is has there been any instances where the Pitot heating system failed on Boeing aircraft and in particular the 777?
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
tonytifao
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2

Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:13 am

How is the location of the crash identified? Beacon data or actual visual sing of debris?

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