MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

LH648 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 104):
Also, daily beast has a good article about how we still use 1960s technology (black boxes) when newer technology exists.

There's simply not enough satcom capacity in the world if ALL airliners will transmit ALL the data back to HQs.

KarelXWB · Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:52 pm

Quoting lh648 (Reply 99):
And IIRC, the first part found was an vertical stabilizer, which is composite on A330 and can float, while 777 have aluminum one.

Correct.

Aside from the vertical stabilizer, most of the debris were small parts of the airplane but one of the galley's was found intact as well.

[Edited 2014-03-08 11:55:19]

ZKCIF · Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting dtfg (Reply 72):
I copied this pic from a Chinese news website who reported the case. Anyone reads Russian confirm it?

This sounds curious. According to the text You copypasted, the lucky Russian guy had been checked in ('zaregistrirovan'/зарегистирован) yet he could not board the plane as his passport was stolen. This message actually makes strange sense in Russian for me as the only way I could read it is that 'the person checked in, then lost his passport, then could not fly) yet by mistake he got into the manifest. If I read this correctly, then this is irrelevant to the disaster as the guy was just left behind because of the lost passport and his seat was left empty. then some god has further plans for him.

RobertS975 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:57 pm

Shallow water in the probable crash area will be a blessing for the investigators when compared to the challenges presented by AF447. Wreckage and as well as the CVR and the flight recorder should be easily recovered.

B2443 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:59 pm

Quoting lh648 (Reply 77):
Those passports are on western names. It will be highly suspicious for Chinese person to use them.

not to be racial....it won't be if they were held by the Caucasian looking Uighurs Chinese.

doug_or · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:05 pm

Quoting cfischaleck (Reply 107):
And also, if the communication loss was 2hrs into the flight, the crash site in this chart is about a further 20 - 30 minutes flight time from the position where reported communication loss occurred.

Communication was lost around 40 minutes into flight. Aircraft was reported missing 2 hours after departure. (as per reports in previous 3 threads).

KELPkid · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:08 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 29):
from Bayesian statistics.Here, with water depths of 50 to 80 meters, a sonar wouldn't be that helpful. Would they sweep the ocean using P-3 Orion aircraft using magnetic anomaly detectors?

That might work if there are significant parts with ferrous metals (e.g. landing gear struts, etc.) The vast majority of the aircraft structure, however, is devoid of ferrous metals. Aluminum is not magnetic, and I don't think aircraft grade alloys add much, if any, iron to the mix

Yirina77 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:11 pm

Quoting dtfg (Reply 72):
I copied this pic from a Chinese news website who reported the case. Anyone reads Russian confirm it?

I´m able to understand Russian. There is written, that there was no Russian citizen onboard of malaysian plane, because passport of Russian passenger on the passenger manifest was stolen.

KarelXWB · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:12 pm

Do we know if some family members received a SMS or call from the passengers before the plane went down?

surfpunk · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:16 pm

I've never had any luck getting phone or SMS to work at altitude. Might just be crappy AT&T in the US.

s5daw · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:16 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 116):
Do we know if some family members received a SMS or call from the passengers before the plane went down?

I thought mobile phones didn't work over open seas?

SOBHI51 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:17 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 116):
Do we know if some family members received a SMS or call from the passengers before the plane went down?

The plane was not equipped with WIFI
As for phone calls, at 35000 feet over the water don't think they will be a signal.

Mike89406 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:17 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 111):

It's almost daylight there.

Toiyabe · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:18 pm

I am somewhat certain a MAD array as fitted to the P-3C will not be very helpful in this instance, as there is not enough ferrous material on the aircraft to be detected with certainty.

Or, at least that's what the ASW specialist/former Orion commander just told me.

SEPilot · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:18 pm

Quoting s5daw (Reply 87):
If 777 had a non-catastrophic event... e.g. something like AF447, would it be expected to receive similar messages?

Apparently you have to subscribe to the service to get the messages; since we have not heard anything about them my suspicion is that MH did not. AF did.

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 89):
6. Terror group IMHO would have taken pride and claim by now

There is no universal terrorist handbook. Some do, some don't. Al Queda did not, nor did the Libyans who brought down PA103.

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 93):
If the oil slick does belong to MH370, doesn't it seem too large to remain from an explosive event?

It depends on the nature of the explosive event. If the plane disintegrated at altitude there would be little to no slick, as the fuel would vaporize before reaching the sea. If in fact the emergency message is real then the plane likely descended to low altitude before disintegrating, and it could have spread the fuel over a considerable distance. But it is hard to say just how the fuel would disperse without knowing how the plane met its end. If it plunged into the sea more or less intact it does seem that it is unlikely that it would spread this much.

VC10er · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:21 pm

God bless all those souls lost.

I am so sad and upset, I couldn't even log-in until now.

If this turns out to be the work of evil, sign me up.

aaexecplat · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:22 pm

How about lithium battery fire in the cargo hold? That could cause disintegration.

EIDL · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:22 pm

Quoting lh648 (Reply 98):
Passports have photographs. And modern passports have photographs printed on them, not glued, so I don't think it's easy to replace the photo.

Still some valid EU passports with pasted photos around - not for much longer though. Believe it was 2005 that Ireland stopped issuing them, at least I know my 2006 passport is printed (but no chip).

flylku · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:23 pm

Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 110):
If I read this correctly, then this is irrelevant to the disaster as the guy was just left behind because of the lost passport and his seat was left empty. then some god has further plans for him.

I wonder if his bags made the flight....

LH648 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:30 pm

Quoting flylku (Reply 126):

I don't think this story is true as Russian embassy in Malaysia have confirmed Russian citizen onboard.

flyingturtle · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:33 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 101):

This is a very recent screenshot (8:07 PM GMT) of the area.

Just my curiousness:

1. Why didn't today's MH370 take the route flown by CPA659 (and many other flights)? Your nice summary shows the great circle route KUL - PEK.

2. Why are there no planes on the great circle route? Problems with Cambodian ATC, or their fees? Lack of ADS-B receivers? Avoiding the MH370 search operations?

David

acabgd · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:36 pm

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 124):
How about lithium battery fire in the cargo hold? That could cause disintegration.

Plenty of time for the crew to request for a divert to another, closer field in order to land asap. No call - no battery fire.

Flightsimboy · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:39 pm

A very sad day firstly as MH is my favourite carrier, and the MH 777 holds a special place as I flew it on the EWR-DXB-KUL v.v flights back in the early 2000s. The jet was lovingly called the "Super Rangers".

airportugal310 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:39 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 128):

To speculate on your first question, MAS370 was heading northbound and the flight you point out, CPA659 is heading southbound. I'm sure the tracks are offset from one another, leading to the differences

vfw614 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:50 pm

Quoting Yirina77 (Reply 115):

Since when are checked-in, but non-boarded passengers included on the manifest?

Tod · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:58 pm

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 124):

On the 777, like most modern commercial aircraft the cargo smoke detection system would have alerted the crew long before anything catastrophic could have happened.

7BOEING7 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:00 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 119):
The plane was not equipped with WIFI
As for phone calls, at 35000 feet over the water don't think they will be a signal.

However it could have been SATCOM equipped in which case as long as they can "see" the satellite they can make phone calls. Many 777's are equipped with SATCOM -- not sure about MAS.

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 130):
A very sad day firstly as MH is my favourite carrier, and the MH 777 holds a special place as I flew it on the EWR-DXB-KUL v.v flights back in the early 2000s. The jet was lovingly called the "Super Rangers".

Super Ranger was the name given to their first 777 9M-MRA for the round the world flight Seattle -- Kuala Lumpur -- Seattle in April of '97.

danvs · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:04 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 128):
1. Why didn't today's MH370 take the route flown by CPA659 (and many other flights)? Your nice summary shows the great circle route KUL - PEK.

CPA659 seems to be flying on airway L642, which is a one-way airway. Planes flying northeast should take L637 or M765 (to the west) or M771 (to the east).

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 128):
2. Why are there no planes on the great circle route? Problems with Cambodian ATC, or their fees? Lack of ADS-B receivers? Avoiding the MH370 search operations?

Planes fly in airways (usually), which do not necessarily match the great circle route (definitely not in Chinese airspace).

[Edited 2014-03-08 13:07:02]

[Edited 2014-03-08 13:08:52]

huxrules · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:07 pm

About the oil slick- in the photo I have seen on CNN there is a clear algal bloom BUT it also looks like there is a light oil sheen to the right to the photo. Could be a reflection in the window but thats what a oil sheen looks like offshore.

doug_or · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:12 pm

Would one expect to find debris and an oil sheen at the same place or have there been cases where they occurred in separate locations?

fanofjets · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:14 pm

So horrible! My thoughts are with the victims and their families.

Flightsimboy · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:15 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 134):
Super Ranger was the name given to their first 777 9M-MRA for the round the world flight Seattle -- Kuala Lumpur -- Seattle in April of '97.

Thanks for the info. Though I do recall their advertisements refer to them as Super Rangers.

flyenthu · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:15 pm

I just find it difficult to imagine either scenarios in the modern flying era: 1) mechanical malfunction (be it aircraft issue or due to crew caused), or 2) human cause like foul play. Given that it seems that the plane literally fell out of the sky, it makes it hard to imagine that the cabin crew didn't even get any time to issue any distress. Which leads to the second option, and it is also difficult to imagine with all the security we have now in any major airport, that security could be breached this significantly. Just astounded and puzzled! Don't know what to think.

TreeHillRavens · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:17 pm

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 83):

Why are Malaysians so concerned with ethnicity? The 12 crew were all Malaysians. Period.

The original question came from the previous thread from another poster who was saying there seemed to be 3 Chinese crew on this flight and I was merely answering him there were 5, not 3 and i also told him all the crew was Malaysian.

We are all proud Malaysian but at the same time we are not forgetting our roots. Just like some American would proudly tell other people they are American of German/Scottish descent and so on. So please do not make this into an issue when it isn't one to begin with.

[Edited 2014-03-08 13:20:35]

456 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:30 pm

Regarding the 'oil' trail - It has been found for some 10hrs or so by the rescue teams. I think that if it was something of evidence of the plane it had been investigated already imho. No news had been given regarding the oil slick, so I can hardly believe it has something to do with MAS730.

Besides. It looks like enourmously to that bacterial thingie posted earlier by a marine bioligist.

[Edited 2014-03-08 13:35:48]

UA787DEN · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:35 pm

My biggest question is - DEBRIS? That's whats most boggling to me. I understand that AF447's debris took a while to locate, but due to the conditions and locations involved, shouldn't this debris be easier to find?

AS737MAX · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:37 pm

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 150):

Agreed, seems like there is nothing being found, but locating should be easier than finding AF447.

456 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:37 pm

BTW - besides AF447, are there more examples of planes which were missing for some period of time?
Like Air India (bomb explosion) near Ireland, or Swissair near Halifax?
Or were those planes all located quickly?

[Edited 2014-03-08 13:38:57]

UA787DEN · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:41 pm

Anyone have any info on the currents around there? Could the surface debris be floating away from the crash site? If that is the case..perhaps the searchers are close to the crash site (and location of larger pieces), but the easily surface debris is elsewhere.

Goodbye · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:43 pm

For me I guess the most odd thing about it is that no trace of the aircraft has been found. It's a fairly busy area, they had all day to find some sort of wreckage, yet nothing has been found. It really is surprising.

pilotaydin · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:45 pm

Well it will take a while to find we dont know which direction they flew for the last few minutes

DALFA · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:45 pm

Quoting 456 (Reply 151):

MS990 that crashed off the coast of Nantucket, but it didn't take that long to find the crash site.

zippyjet · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:47 pm

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 147):

May have been asked before; is that stretch of water where the slick was found smooth or choppy?
We all send hearfelt prayers to the families of the passengers and flight crew.

UA787DEN · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:50 pm

Quoting Goodbye (Reply 141):
For me I guess the most odd thing about it is that no trace of the aircraft has been found. It's a fairly busy area, they had all day to find some sort of wreckage, yet nothing has been found. It really is surprising.

Exactly.
Does anyone have info as to what areas have already been searched/current search patterns?

L1011 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:51 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 75):
Both of those people with false passports were booked through code share of a China Southern, maybe they believed they were going to fly on a Chinese airline, which would give a motive if this indeed was a result of a terrorist attack.

Sometimes you don't know what airline you will be flying on ahead of time. A couple of weeks ago I was booked on MH 9141 from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore, an A330. There was no mention on my reservation that it would be flown by a different airline. I tried to check in on line so I could select my seat. That didn't work, so I waited in the MH check-in line for 30 minutes, only to be told that my flight was on SilkAir. An A330 on SilkAir? I didn't think they had any. So I checked in with SilkAir, got my boarding pass with seat 49A, and went to gate C2 to wait for my SilkAir A330. Instead, a Singapore Airlines A330 pulled into the gate. That was my flight. I had no idea that I wasn't flying with Malaysia Airlines. So what happened in the quoted text could be possible.

Bob Bradley

apfpilot · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:52 pm

Quoting 456 (Reply 146):
Swissair near Halifax?

With Swissair they found where the aircraft went down pretty quickly it was much closer to shore and they had a distress call to go off of for location. They had the FDR and CVR within a couple of days. With AI there was a ship on site within 2 hours of the crash.

Thunderboltdrgn · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:53 pm

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 147):
Anyone have any info on the currents around there?

This is a pdf with some info about it; http://blog.buu.ac.th/file/anukul/GoT_2D_Circulate.pdf

some other info:
http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1650129
http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/Pub161bk%20south%20china%20sea.pdf
http://www.emecs.or.jp/guidebook/eng/pdf/08thailand.pdf
http://www.terrapub.co.jp/journals/JO/pdf/5704/57040461.pdf

However I don't have enough knowledge to draw any conclusions from it.

[Edited 2014-03-08 13:56:48]

SInGAPORE_AIR · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:53 pm

There is a report that the 'Russian' passenger in fact was not on board and had his passport stolen.

mercure1 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:53 pm

Today's flight plan. I suspect the missing MAS370 was on the same path.

DCT PIBOS R208 IKUKO M076F290 R208 IGARI M765 BITOD N0480F330 L637 TSN N0490F350 W1 BMT W12 PCA G221 BUNTA N0480F350 A1 IKELA N0480F350 P901 IDOSI N0480F390 DCT CH DCT BEKOL K0890S1160 A461 YIN K0890S1190 A461

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS370/history/20140308/1635Z/WMKK/ZBAA

:45 enroute time places it near BITOD
http://skyvector.com/?ll=7.255675732...04.1174316305807&chart=301&zoom=10

jetblueguy22 · Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:54 pm

Hi Everyone,

The Moderator Crew understands this is a hot topic and there are many theories floating around. But please refrain from saying anything that may start battles. If you think it will stir the pot, it probably will.

Regards,
Pat

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