• 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
 
User avatar
Dalavia
Posts: 451
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:08 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:14 am

I hope this doesn't get lost as I suspect thread 5 will have to be started soon, but in the mire of rumours some points seem to have emerged and not be questioned:

The Italian passenger was not on the flight (but someone else using his passport was on the flight). The man's passport had been stolen recently in Thailand.

Similarly, the Austrian passenger was not on the flight (but someone else using his passport was on the flight). The man's passport had been stolen about two years ago, also in Thailand.

The flight was a code share with CZ, but China Southern had sold only seven of the tickets on the flight. Two of those tickets were for the people carrying the stolen Italian and Austrian passports.

This seems too coincidental to be insignificant.

I wonder whether surveillance video can be used to identify the two people using the fake passports.

I also wonder whether the families of the other five CZ passengers will be interviewed.

[Edited to correct a missing capital letter]

[Edited 2014-03-08 19:17:32]
 
hivue
Posts: 2003
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:26 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:22 am

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 252):
some points seem to have emerged and not be questioned:

I think they haven't been questioned because they appear to be accurate. Whether they have anything at all to do with the aircraft going missing remains speculation.

[Edited 2014-03-08 19:25:38]
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4552
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:24 am

Based on the following routing: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/M...0/history/20140308/1635Z/WMKK/ZBAA

Here is the likely planned flight track:


Here is the zoomed in area of interest w/ a probabilistic navlog, showing the fix BITOD w/ an estimated time over fix @ 42min into the flight.
mercure f-wtcc
 
Skydrol
Posts: 1053
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:01 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:27 am

Quoting vietcolin (Reply 250):
So far all fisher men in the region have well informed to participate in to SAR. Until now, no any fisher man report any thing about MH370, they saw nothing...from mid night yesterday until now..

This is a very interesting point... how could it be with so many boats in the area, nobody reported seeing anything?



LD4
∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19563
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:34 am

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 255):
Quoting vietcolin (Reply 250):
So far all fisher men in the region have well informed to participate in to SAR. Until now, no any fisher man report any thing about MH370, they saw nothing...from mid night yesterday until now..

This is a very interesting point... how could it be with so many boats in the area, nobody reported seeing anything?

"Many boats" doesn't mean a carpet of them. It was the middle of the night. While fishing boats often operate at night, the sea is a big place and an airliners is not very large relatively speaking. Unless there was an explosion with a flash, neither a breakup at altitude nor an intact plunge would have been particularly visible or audible unless an observer was close by and looking in the right direction.

[Edited 2014-03-08 19:34:53]

[Edited 2014-03-08 19:35:34]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
User avatar
Miami
Posts: 6087
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:38 am

If this indeed was a hijacking. Do you think the hijackers flew farther away from where people think it may have crashed?
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:39 am

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 236):

Not sure if this is already up, but I just saw this:

http://www.nst.com.my/nation/general...3%2F7.502513%2F7.576448%2F7.576448


This looks like pure speculation. Unless that flight can surrender its black box over to authorities and those pilots submit for questioning and all this is confirmed openly to the media, it's all speculation.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
aerocabin
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:33 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:40 am

Just watched on CNN and read online that apparently four passengers are being investigated:

Missing Malaysia Airlines plane: Malaysia probing two more passengers on missing flight MH370: Source

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...ia-probing-two-more-passengers-mis

aerocabin
 
WingedMigrator
Posts: 1771
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:45 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:40 am

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 255):
how could it be with so many boats in the area, nobody reported seeing anything?

It was the dead of night, and the moon had just set. Pitch black conditions.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14495
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:43 am

The use of stolen passports by at least 2 possible passengers on this flight is very disturbing. I expect an intense investigation by Malaysian government officials along with Interpol, US-FBI, PRC, and others to figure out they got on the flight with them. The users may not be terrorists, more likely spies or shady business persons or criminals. I would assume the airport ID checkpoints would have digital video recorders to figure out likely users of these passports and how they got past security.

Some other thoughts of an aircraft related failure that could have caused sudden disaster:

Failure of a cargo door latch or hinge. We do have at least 2 major crashes and 1 near disaster (UA 747) caused by such door failures. At such altitudes, it could have caused massive decompression failures, or just tore the a/c apart. Although rare, it is a possibility.

Failure of an engine mount (ie AA DC-10 at ORD many years ago)

A massive electrical failure or a fire - ie: SR 111 - or related, a serious autopilot software or component failure. In the such cases, the pilots were going to concentrate on flying and shut down communications to the ground to deal with their problem. Sadly it could have been too little too late. While there should be backups, cascading failures could have made it impossible to recover in time.

It could be something as innocent as a pilot bumping accidently an autopilot function switch and failure of the PIC or FO to react in time before in an uncontrolled situation.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:43 am

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 252):

As an Austrian and Italian citizen you need a Visa to travel to China, which makes these fake travelers even more significant. They had to apply in person at a Chinese Embassy or Consulate. Either they somehow managed to pull off the identity scam, or the Visa was fake and they never intended to arrive.
 
atnight
Posts: 537
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:06 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:43 am

I have a question, does anyone have a list or information on which large commercial aircraft has the best record on safety? I always thought the B777 had the best record, but since I've seen several news reports stating that the B777 is one of the safest, it made me wonder which aircraft has the title as the best record on safety.
B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19563
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:43 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 257):
If this indeed was a hijacking. Do you think the hijackers flew farther away from where people think it may have crashed?

It is possible but even if they turned off the transponder primary radar could still have tracked the flight. Unless they went all Hollywood and flew very low.

A 777 is kinda conspicuous though, so where would they have landed? Unless they crashed in some remote region of ocean or land of course.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
mandala499
Posts: 6592
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:45 am

I usually avoid the first 24hrs of an accident from posting in a.net... I guess that policy still does do me well.

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 160):
Crew composition is crucial!

Think simple 777 crew with highly inexperienced fo plus an abnormal situation, doesn't take much to cause chaos in a cockpit no need for bombs terror and structural failures a simple fault is enough...

This is what people miss... It's counter-intuitive to see and accept this, but yet, this happens more often than we're willing to accept.

Quoting 456 (Reply 138):
BTW - besides AF447, are there more examples of planes which were missing for some period of time?

Indeed.. with simpler reasons that's so simple it's baffling (to the extent that some people refuse to believe it... basic human fallacy).

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 163):
This Malaysian crash is just so mind boggling. As others have mentioned, no distress calls which would indicate it was catastrophic or atleast something going on to where pilots had no time to key the mic.
Quoting B747forever (Reply 193):
I have a hard time believing that pilots wont try to communicate their emergency.

It isn't that mind boggling on the aspect of "disappearing". We had AF447, KI574, etc etc...

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 164):
Where is the ACARS transmissions.?

If the airplane isn't fitted with a warning/failure transmission through ACARS, we won't see any ACARS.
If sent, MH and other airlines can always opt for the warning/failure transmission to be sent through Satcom and not VHF, meaning we won't hear about it unless someone leaked the info out (as per the AF447 case).

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 211):
I would imagine that if they know something was very wrong they would communicate it if they could.

As in the case of AF447... they didn't... by the time they did... they were swamped with their own problems.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 95):
Q/A session:

This is jumping the gun. The omission of the possibility of no contact with none of those "catastrophic failure", does open the door for misleading the reader. The first 2 points in that link, is misleading... makes people think there's a conspiracy...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
Braniff747SP
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:56 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:46 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 262):
even more significant.

This is key. Had they been traveling to nations that did not require visas for their passports, there would be a good possibility that they were traveling on forged papers without malicious--rather, violent--intent.

The fact that they would need a visa makes this interesting. However, shouldn't MH have checked all their passengers' visas before letting them board?
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 14392
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:46 am

Quoting aerocabin (Reply 259):

There have been early rumours that China wants to make sure there is no connection with the recent attack in Kunming. Nothing but another rumour.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
asetiadi
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 5:05 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:50 am

Can somebody tell me what was the weather in that area where the plane missing? Heavy Turbulence maybe?

I am not so sure about hijacking. if it's indeed hijacking then the pilot will have all the time in the world to send message or at least tell us something before it went down. I don't even think a hijacker can enter a cockpit.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19563
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:52 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 262):
As an Austrian and Italian citizen you need a Visa to travel to China, which makes these fake travelers even more significant. They had to apply in person at a Chinese Embassy or Consulate. Either they somehow managed to pull off the identity scam, or the Visa was fake and they never intended to arrive.

Austrians and Italians, among others, can enter China through Beijing and a few other cities on visa-free transit status for 72 hours.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Cerecl
Posts: 588
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:22 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:57 am

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 252):
I also wonder whether the families of the other five CZ passengers will be interviewed.

I don't see how this is going to add anything. MH370 is a codeshare flight with CZ. There is nothing abnormal with booking via CZ.
Fokker-100 SAAB 340 Q400 E190 717 737 738 763ER 787-8 772 77E 773 77W 747-400 747-400ER A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A346 A359 A380
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19563
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:59 am

Quoting atnight (Reply 263):
I have a question, does anyone have a list or information on which large commercial aircraft has the best record on safety? I always thought the B777 had the best record, but since I've seen several news reports stating that the B777 is one of the safest, it made me wonder which aircraft has the title as the best record on safety.

Lots of stats here http://aviation-safety.net/statistics/ but "safest airliner" stats per se do not have much value except for crap headlines. All airliners built in the last few decades are very safe as designed and built. The variables that make flights more or less safe are mainly to do with crew, operational procedures, maintenance and so forth. To give an extreme example, I'd trust a BA or CX crew with a DC-3 more than I'd trust an couple of newbie pilots with a 777. It's not the plane itself that makes things safe.

Two other problems with the statistics:
1. There are so few accidents that it does not add up to a statistically significant number. Thus you can't draw many valid conclusions except to say that commercial aviation as a whole is very safe.
2. Accidents are very far from identical, so lumping them together per airliner does not make a lot of sense.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 268):
Can somebody tell me what was the weather in that area where the plane missing? Heavy Turbulence maybe?

All I've read seems to have said the weather was fine. It is not storm season.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 268):
I am not so sure about hijacking. if it's indeed hijacking then the pilot will have all the time in the world to send message or at least tell us something before it went down. I don't even think a hijacker can enter a cockpit.

There are many possibilities. For example, and of course this is just blue-sky spitballing, what if one of the crew was the hijacker?

[Edited 2014-03-08 20:00:46]

[Edited 2014-03-08 20:01:38]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
specks159
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:59 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:59 am

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 268):

It was posted somewhere in one of the earlier threads, but weather in the area was clear at the time the flight lost contact. I don't believe there was mention of turbulence from other aircraft in the area either.
 
danvs
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:34 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:00 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 262):
As an Austrian and Italian citizen you need a Visa to travel to China,
Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 266):
This is key. Had they been traveling to nations that did not require visas for their passports, there would be a good possibility that they were traveling on forged papers without malicious--rather, violent--intent. The fact that they would need a visa makes this interesting. However, shouldn't MH have checked all their passengers' visas before letting them board?

FYI, it has been posted that Italians and Austrians (besides some other nationalities) do not need visas to enter China if they're in transit.
It's possible that they were using PEK as a connection point to somewhere else, and not as a final destination.
 
CyberEntomology
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:55 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:02 am

"In case of a water landing, your seat cushion may be used as a flotation device". If MAS370 had disintegrated in midair or on impact, it would seem the Gulf of Thailand would be littered with seat cushions. So what happened to that plane? ATC says radar logs showed a rapid descent, which suggests the plane was at least mostly intact (or in large chunks). So did they shut off all transponders and radios, dive down below radar coverage, dump enough fuel to make a bit of a slick on the water and make for parts unknown, over the South China Sea?

No ELT, No wreckage, and they can't find any trace of a plane in water that is shallower than both the wingspan and fuselage length of a 777. Any decent ASW aircraft would have been able to pick up a 777-sized chunk of metal.

But how/where does one land and hide a 777 without someone knowing?

The whole thing is very bizarre.
 
PacNWjet
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2000 1:18 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:03 am

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 266):
However, shouldn't MH have checked all their passengers' visas before letting them board?

There is always the possibility that if the passengers had nefarious intent they could have had accomplices working on the inside at MH. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy; just answering a question.
 
vr-hkg
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 7:32 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:07 am

Tweet from the acting Transport Minister for Malaysia's communications team, 21 minutes ago:

https://twitter.com/H2OComms/status/442506703288815616

"There is a possibility that airplane did an air turnback. DCA, TUDM will verify exactly - will reveal details at 1pm PC"
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19563
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:08 am

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 274):
"In case of a water landing, your seat cushion may be used as a flotation device". If MAS370 had disintegrated in midair or on impact, it would seem the Gulf of Thailand would be littered with seat cushions. So what happened to that plane? ATC says radar logs showed a rapid descent, which suggests the plane was at least mostly intact (or in large chunks). So did they shut off all transponders and radios, dive down below radar coverage, dump enough fuel to make a bit of a slick on the water and make for parts unknown, over the South China Sea?

No ELT, No wreckage, and they can't find any trace of a plane in water that is shallower than both the wingspan and fuselage length of a 777. Any decent ASW aircraft would have been able to pick up a 777-sized chunk of metal.

But how/where does one land and hide a 777 without someone knowing?

The whole thing is very bizarre.

It may just be that the sea is large and a plane is comparatively small, but you are right that we're not talking half the Atlantic.

Your diversion scenario brings up memories of Tintin's Flight 714 to Sydney, which as you might recall was even set in the region. But in that case, where is the secret island base? It does seem rather "out there" as theories go but at this point anything is possible I suppose.



[Edited 2014-03-08 20:14:27]

[Edited 2014-03-08 20:34:02]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
hivue
Posts: 2003
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:26 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:08 am

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 274):
in water that is shallower than both the wingspan and fuselage length of a 777

What makes you think that?
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:10 am

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 266):
However, shouldn't MH have checked all their passengers' visas before letting them board?

Do airlines actually verify Visas? I have no idea. I always assumed once the agent confirms the stamp in your Passport it's a go.

Of course there is a chance both Passports had a Chinese Visa when they were stolen, but somehow I think that's very unlikely and these guys never intended to arrive in Beijing. What are the chances a flight having more than 1 traveler with a fake identity on board?
 
PilotRecruit
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:36 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:10 am

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 268):
Can somebody tell me what was the weather in that area where the plane missing? Heavy Turbulence maybe?

The weather around here has been pretty much spectacular for the last month or so. There definitely wouldn't have been any thunderstorms and I would be doubtful of any turbulence.

I know that the ocean is big and planes are small, but if you saw the number of fishing boats and oil rigs down there off the coast of Malaysia/Thailand, it would be hard to believe anything could get by unnoticed.
"Whether you think you can or you can't, either way you're right." Henry Ford
 
USAIRWAYS321
Posts: 1724
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 4:31 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:10 am

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 274):
"In case of a water landing, your seat cushion may be used as a flotation device". If MAS370 had disintegrated in midair or on impact, it would seem the Gulf of Thailand would be littered with seat cushions.

Not if passengers are strapped in on top of those seat cushions.
 
CyberEntomology
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:55 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:12 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 278):

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 274):
in water that is shallower than both the wingspan and fuselage length of a 777

What makes you think that?

Most of the Gulf of Thailand is 150-200' deep.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2366
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:12 am

The latest news are that there now seems like there were 4 people with false identities on board the aircraft. I can link to an article in Norwegian.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10145901
 
vr-hkg
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 7:32 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:13 am

New Straits Times just tweeted that *four* passengers believed to be flying on stolen passports are now being investigated:

"Intelligence agencies,counter terrorism units are assisting authorities on 4 passengers said to be using stolen passports"

https://twitter.com/NST_Online/status/442511390150914048
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19563
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:13 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 279):
Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 266):
However, shouldn't MH have checked all their passengers' visas before letting them board?

Do airlines actually verify Visas? I have no idea. I always assumed once the agent confirms the stamp in your Passport it's a go.

They do. If a person does not have valid documentation on arrival, the airline has to pay to fly that person back.

Of course, the agent can also miss this detail and let a person through. And in any case Austrians and Italians do not always need visas for the PRC.

Quoting PilotRecruit (Reply 280):
know that the ocean is big and planes are small, but if you saw the number of fishing boats and oil rigs down there off the coast of Malaysia/Thailand, it would be hard to believe anything could get by unnoticed.

Fair point.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
PilotRecruit
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:36 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:13 am

Quoting vr-hkg (Reply 276):
Tweet from the acting Transport Minister for Malaysia's communications team, 21 minutes ago:

https://twitter.com/H2OComms/status/442506703288815616

"There is a possibility that airplane did an air turnback. DCA, TUDM will verify exactly - will reveal details at 1pm PC"

And not a single passenger on the plane got in contact with anyone?? Sounds like a ridiculous tweet to me.
"Whether you think you can or you can't, either way you're right." Henry Ford
 
flyenthu
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:37 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:13 am

There's a timeline of events from the reliable Strait Times (bottom of page in link below). Can someone explain the 1:22am and 2:41 am points to me?

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...-missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-2

At 1:22am the plane did not appear on Ho Chi Minh ATC- if I read this correctly, the plane did not report this ATC and transfer itself. Yet, at 2:41am the plane lost contact with Subang ATC, which is Malaysian. So, what happened between 1:22 and 2:41am? Why is the 1:22 am point important because the plane would have been on Subang ATC, no?

Am I missing something? Thanks and sorry if this has been posted already.
 
CyberEntomology
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:55 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:14 am

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 281):
Not if passengers are strapped in on top of those seat cushions.

According to the FlightAware track log, they had just reached cruising altitude and leveled off, In good weather. Pretty good chance that more than a few were unbelted.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19563
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:16 am

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 287):
There's a timeline of events from the reliable Strait Times (bottom of page in link below). Can someone explain the 1:22am and 2:41 am points to me?

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...-missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-2

At 1:22am the plane did not appear on Ho Chi Minh ATC- if I read this correctly, the plane did not report this ATC and transfer itself. Yet, at 2:41am the plane lost contact with Subang ATC, which is Malaysian. So, what happened between 1:22 and 2:41am? Why is the 1:22 am point important because the plane would have been on Subang ATC, no?

Am I missing something? Thanks and sorry if this has been posted already.

I saw the same. I think this can be explained by the one hour time difference between Malaysia and Vietnam. 1:22am in Vietnam is 2:22am in Malaysia.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:16 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 269):
Austrians and Italians, among others, can enter China through Beijing and a few other cities on visa-free transit status for 72 hours

You just buy a ticket and go? No bureaucracy?
 
CyberEntomology
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:55 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:16 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 277):
Your diversion scenario brings up memories of Tintin's Flight 714 to Sydney. But in that case, where is the secret island base? It does seem rather "out there" as theories go but at this point anything is possible I suppose.

Hah, hadn't even thought of that, but yeah. North Korea?

Either that or they're on the same island as Oceanic 815.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:16 am

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 274):
"In case of a water landing, your seat cushion may be used as a flotation device". If MAS370 had disintegrated in midair or on impact, it would seem the Gulf of Thailand would be littered with seat cushions.

The seat cushions don't have to be floatable if the aircraft has life vests. Any aircraft that crosses oceans is going to have the vests. So it is no sure thing that there would be seat cushions floating around.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
SEA
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:21 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:18 am

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 291):
Either that or they're on the same island as Oceanic 815.

Oahu???  
 
vr-hkg
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 7:32 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:19 am

Quoting PilotRecruit (Reply 286):
And not a single passenger on the plane got in contact with anyone?? Sounds like a ridiculous tweet to me.

I'm not judging the veracity of the tweet, just pointing it out. It's from an official source, and suggests there will be a press conference in about 45 minutes.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19563
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:19 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 290):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 269):
Austrians and Italians, among others, can enter China through Beijing and a few other cities on visa-free transit status for 72 hours

You just buy a ticket and go? No bureaucracy?

Well, not much bureaucracy. It's a new rule since 2013.
- You must register with police within 24 hours.
- Stay in China has to be less than 72 hours.
- You have to have a ticket for the flight exiting China.
- Destination and origin cannot be the same.
- It can only be one of six airports.
- You must leave from the same airport as arrival.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
CyberEntomology
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:55 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:20 am

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 287):
At 1:22am the plane did not appear on Ho Chi Minh ATC- if I read this correctly, the plane did not report this ATC and transfer itself. Yet, at 2:41am the plane lost contact with Subang ATC, which is Malaysian. So, what happened between 1:22 and 2:41am? Why is the 1:22 am point important because the plane would have been on Subang ATC, no?

So they would have signed off with Subang ATC, and disappeared before checking in with Ho Chi Minh? Curiouser and Curiouser.
 
SEA
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:21 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:22 am

Quoting PilotRecruit (Reply 286):
And not a single passenger on the plane got in contact with anyone?? Sounds like a ridiculous tweet to me.

How would they (a passenger) have been able to contact anyone over the sea?
 
KFlyer
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:05 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:24 am

Starlionblue, I think this was all led by a mistake from the MH PR team (and we cannot blame them, for they must have been under so much pressure). The plane only flew under contact for 40 mins it seems. It was from 1241 to 0122 or so. The point and time when it vanishes from FR24 actually seems to be the point at which it happened. This fits with all the locations and rest of story.
The latest press release from MH corrects this.
The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
 
Braniff747SP
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:56 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:26 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 279):
Do airlines actually verify Visas? I have no idea. I always assumed once the agent confirms the stamp in your Passport it's a go.

Of course there is a chance both Passports had a Chinese Visa when they were stolen, but somehow I think that's very unlikely and these guys never intended to arrive in Beijing. What are the chances a flight having more than 1 traveler with a fake identity on board?

They do, as they would need to need to fly them back on their own dime if they are denied.
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3676
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:26 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 261):
The users may not be terrorists, more likely spies or shady business persons or criminals. I would assume the airport ID checkpoints would have digital video recorders to figure out likely users of these passports and how they got past security.

Do we know if they checked any Luggage?

If they did then perhaps they could examine any luggage screening that occurred.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 262):
As an Austrian and Italian citizen you need a Visa to travel to China, which makes these fake travelers even more significant. They had to apply in person at a Chinese Embassy or Consulate. Either they somehow managed to pull off the identity scam, or the Visa was fake and they never intended to arrive.

It has been mentioned but if you have a return or onward for certain cities in China and have a certain passport (IIRC EU is included) you can stay for 72 hours without a visa and PEK is one of them.

I have actually flown YYZ-PVG-SYD and didn't need a visa for China but do have a stamp for China in my passport. The immigration officer at PVG looked at my onward ticket and admitted me.

I would think this information is at least known that either Chinese visas were issued on these fake passports or that they had return or onward tickets to another destination. I reckon that the authorities and the airlines know the answers to those question and are investigating it now.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
wisborg
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:09 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:29 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 290):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 269):
Austrians and Italians, among others, can enter China through Beijing and a few other cities on visa-free transit status for 72 hours

You just buy a ticket and go? No bureaucracy?

I went from Sydney to Europe via Guangzhou in June 2012, and yes I just bought the ticket, in Guangzhou walked through the transfer "immigration" and into the departure terminal.

I haven't actually tried to make a stopover, so can't tell how that works.
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos