MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6

MesaFlyGuy · Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:36 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 191):

Honestly, it's 1 number off. These people don't live and breath the topics they report on. They are just that; reporters. They convey information to a broad audience. She was probably reading from a teleprompter, anyway, so blame the guy or gal programming the teleprompter. Six and 7 are right next to each other on a keyboard (well, not if you use the num pad). Easy mistake to make.

I feel like, if you're going to get on CNN and do this reporting, you should know about the things on which you are to report. Even if it is one number off. Sorry, that's just my opinion.

stuyyz · Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:37 pm

Another crazy conjecture - what's the heading/bearing from the plane's last known location to Mecca? Is it 333 degrees, the last reported heading? Is there any logic to the notion that if a hypothetical terrorist took control of the plane, turned it towards Mecca, turned off all comms, and then ditched it. I know, crazy, .... just another thought.

CyberEntomology · Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:37 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 186):
Do you realize how tiny a 777 is compared to the Gulf of Thailand?

Horizontally, tiny. Vertically, not tiny. Still well within the realm of being easy to locate with a decent ASW crew.

cjg225 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:37 pm

Quoting cuban8 (Reply 198):

I don't see any reason for anyone to turn off the transponder regardless of the intention being suicide or hi-jack.

If you don't want to be found, then yes you would.

Admittedly, I think it's more likely a hijacker would turn off the transponder, but a hijacking in this case would have had to have happened so quickly that the crew couldn't get off a call first, which I find somewhat unlikely.

rwy04lga · Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:38 pm

Quoting Tod (Reply 96):
777 doors cannot be opened in flight and disconnecting them from aircraft would take hours and tools.

Or a passing jetway.

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 182):
One lying on the bottom should get picked up by a P-3's submarine detection gear with very little difficulty.

The MAD's on P-3s detect 'Magnetic Anomalies'. Airliners are mostly aluminum, and not magnetic. Is there enough steel on an airliner the size of a 777 to trigger a response from the MAD?

flyingturtle · Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:42 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 193):
But shouldn't the emergency locator beacon help narrrow it down? That is the most puzzling aspect. Why aren't any distress signals being picked up?

If the ELB/ELT is under water, it won't help much. Sea water behaves like a Faraday cage for most radio frequencies.

Under water, the FDR uses an acoustic pinger. In the search for AF447, several submarines have looked for the signal.

David

747megatop · Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:42 pm

Identities of some of the passengers -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...a-Airlines-says-plane-missing.html

CyberEntomology · Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:43 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 204):
The MAD's on P-3s detect 'Magnetic Anomalies'. Airliners are mostly aluminum, and not magnetic. Is there enough steel on an airliner the size of a 777 to trigger a response from the MAD?

the MADs on a P3 are insanely sensitive and are able to detect some of the subs the Soviets built out of titanium and other non-ferrous materials.

MADs are also used for prospecting all sorts of metals, so they're ridiculously sensitive.

cjg225 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:44 pm

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 202):
Horizontally, tiny. Vertically, not tiny. Still well within the realm of being easy to locate with a decent ASW crew.

Again, how clear is the water? Did the tail break off, robbing the aircraft of over half of the height of which you speak? Furthermore, even if the tail is intact, it's a thin, vertical object. The top of the fuselage would be comparatively much deeper.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 204):

The MAD's on P-3s detect 'Magnetic Anomalies'. Airliners are mostly aluminum, and not magnetic. Is there enough steel on an airliner the size of a 777 to trigger a response from the MAD?

After having read some responses yesterday, I admit that could be an issue. Still, there might be some pieces large enough to get a small hit, like the landing gear. I don't know if the tool can be entirely ruled out.

CPDC10-30 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:47 pm

Quoting stuyyz (Reply 201):

Another crazy conjecture - what's the heading/bearing from the plane's last known location to Mecca?

From the last known location of MH370, it would be a heading of about 291 degrees, give or take a few.

Finn350 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:50 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 176):
The same way said ethnic Chinese managed to get in the KUL-PEK plane using said passport? If it's possible in KUL, it's possible in AMS. If you claim it's not possible in AMS, then it shouldn't have been possible in KUL either.

I am not sure if I get your point, but certainly even a most cursory comparison between an ethnic Chinese and a passport photograph of a Caucausian would reveal something foul is going on.

Quoting KFAY (Reply 177):
I don't wish to make any accusations or impugn anyone's character, but as long as we are speculating about possible causes I believe the possibility of a suicide by one of the pilots has to be considered. A very tough possibility to think of, but it would make sense-one pilot exits to use the restroom, the second pilot locks the door and pushes the nose down. Would explain the lack of distress call, and if the aircraft hit the water nose-down at a high rate of speed, it could also explain the lack of debris thus far.

Certainly possible that a suicidal crewmember first turns off the transponder and then nose dives, but why bother with the turning off the transponder?

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 187):
After AF-447 and now MH-370 is there any plans by the manufacturers to introduce technology to have aircrafts automatically transmit short text messages on a continous basis (let's say every minute) that contain location, altitude and speed to the Airline's base? In this modern age with so much technology available a plane should not just go missing.

ADS-B is technology that is used essentially for this purpose and this plane was equipped with the technology. It is very baffling that the plane has not been located despite this technology.

Quoting cuban8 (Reply 198):
I think most evidences so far points into the direction of an in-flight explosion of some kind (not necessarily caused by an unlawful act). I do agree with earlier posters that the lack of debris found so far points against this assumption; but the fact that the ELT hasn't sent any transmissions in addition to losing the aircraft from the radar in a very short period of time indicates to me that something happened in flight and very fast.I don't see any reason for anyone to turn off the transponder regardless of the intention being suicide or hi-jack.I don't see the airplane breaking up for any kind of weather condition(s).I don't see any "common" malfunction(s) which would not give the pilots enough time to send a distress call.

cjg225 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:53 pm

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 207):
the MADs on a P3 are insanely sensitive and are able to detect some of the subs the Soviets built out of titanium and other non-ferrous materials.

MADs are also used for prospecting all sorts of metals, so they're ridiculously sensitive.

I don't believe they're detecting the hulls themselves. They're detecting the the ferro-metallic objects inside of the subs, especially those objects that change the magnetic field around them, like running electric generators. A 777 won't have a huge amount of ferro-metallic metal on it, but it does have some.

Furthermore, part of the discussion yesterday was also that the MAD arrays on P-3Cs have a very limited field of effectiveness. The small amount of ferro-metallic metal we're talking about could make use of a MAD array seriously limited.

You'll notice that the P-8 Poseidon, our newest fixed-wing ASW aircraft, does not even carry a MAD array, given its effectiveness, or lackthereof.

[Edited 2014-03-09 11:54:33]

billreid · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:00 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 103):
We cannot be held responsible for what less than clever people "deduce" from our speculation.

So if your speculation creates false expectations, and hope for the family of a missing person then thats wonderful? I am ashamed of your position. Your entertainment is more important than the sanctity of the missing and their families. There is a time to speculate and a time not too. Now is the time to hold to facts rather than wildly speculate.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 103):
It is human nature. These speculators are not, as a rule, evil.

For me definition of "Evil" is a failure to have empathy for fellow human beings.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 118):
Exactly !!! No one is forced with a gun pointing to the head to check this threads.... and I'm absoultelly sure the families of the passengers don't have the intention to read this threads right now.

Would you bet your life on this statement? It is ridiculously based on your unfounded assumptions. You have no idea who is watching these threads including which authorities. For example, beyond the media, would it be possible for a perpetrator to monitor what is being said? Would it be possible that the authorities to be monitoring sites like this to see who is blogging?

Quoting threepoint (Reply 137):
Sadly, many contributors here do tend to speculate far too much. Armed with a shred more than average knowledge about aviation, many of the wild-arsed guesses can display a veneer of credibility that can confuse the casual reader. We all understand that journalists with less than robust fact-checking prowess tend to troll sites such as this one in order to glean tidbits of information to add to a story. All too often, this info - based on speculative nonsense from people in their bedrooms around the world - appears in various media reports, serving only to further muddy an already murky situation.

We visit this site for accurate information (and to look at pretty pictures). If we want gossip and uneducated opinion, there are plenty of sources to which we can turn. It's fine to ask questions and pose theories here - and have them scrutinized by one's peers. But when we assert speculation (framing one's guesses as fact) while an investigation is in its infancy, we rapidly lose our personal credibility and that of this website. I find it unhelpful when a longtime member dismisses a call for responsibility by another contributor, and makes an aggressive challenge, as if this site were his own. I'll repeat what 'billreid' alluded to: we don't want to read any speculation. It might also mean that this thread would still be in Part 1...

Right on! We need to let the experts do what they do. If one has constructive input instead of "close my eyes and guess" then bring it forward. I am looking for the links for facts, and what is available but I have to scan over the useless white-noise written by those who simple don't know better.

Quoting threepoint (Reply 137):
An outstanding example of deflection and ability to point blame any direction but towards oneself! If one wants to speculate, perhaps they could create or contribute to an aviation site that has less integrity.

Beautifully said. I from time to time will fire up an A vs. B argument. I will argue about flight benefits. But speculation in a case like this may show a lack of empathy, I have ideas about what may have happened but I probably am 99.99999% wrong so I keep them out from the blog.

UALWN · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 178):
Common sense suggests that it is way more likely to be detected when using a stolen Schengen passport registered as such if you pass the Schengen border (AMS) than if you pass the Malaysian border (KUL).

I don't see why. See below.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 210):
I am not sure if I get your point, but certainly even a most cursory comparison between an ethnic Chinese and a passport photograph of a Caucausian would reveal something foul is going on.

Exactly. Both at AMS and at KUL.

flyingturtle · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 204):
The MAD's on P-3s detect 'Magnetic Anomalies'. Airliners are mostly aluminum, and not magnetic. Is there enough steel on an airliner the size of a 777 to trigger a response from the MAD?

In archeology, MADs can even detect ancient footpaths if the soil contains some iron. Foothpaths have a more compacted ground.

I wouldn't be astonished if the MAD could detect the wreckage. But any wreckage they find will be from ships... so they'll be chasing a lot of red herrings.

Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 194):
And we have biometric passport since 1998. No joke.

David

SuseJ772 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:06 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 117):
I disagree. The weather was very different and the airline has not reported receiving a slew of malfunction reports from the plane.

As usual, Starloinblue is right here. The only thing this shares with AF447 is that it was over open water and it is missing. Every other piece of evidence so far indicates a very different situation.

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 155):
Everyone is assuming that the plane crashed at whatever moment contact was lost, and so that's the place where they are looking - where the plane was 40m-1h30m into its flight.

I have thought the same thing. I know in theory someone would have heard the plane crash on land. But if it crashed in a remote area and didn't burn (for whatever reason), then it could be in a jungle somewhere.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 156):
That's true. I've entered the EU multiple times without a stamp and I am definitely not the only one.

Not getting a stamp is different than not having it checked.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 157):
I never get stamped when entering the EU. That does not mean that my passport does not get scanned.

Exactly.

DBCooper · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:07 pm

So does anyone know if this aircraft had been delivered or modified with the post-TW 800 fuel tank inerting system?

Apologies if this has been discussed previously...

-DBC

romeobravo · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:08 pm

as a suggestion would it be possible to have a short bullet point summary in the op of these part x threads.

sometimes you go away for a day an there's another 1000 posts on the subject when you get back.

QANTAS077 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:08 pm

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 182):
Hell, the tail on that thing is 60 feet tall. This is not a small airplane by any stretch.

I'd think it's more a matter of the condition of the plane upon impact, was it intact for the most part, or was it in parts...thus creating a wide search area.

it's there, it's just a matter of where.

marosbts · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:12 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 213):

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 178):
Common sense suggests that it is way more likely to be detected when using a stolen Schengen passport registered as such if you pass the Schengen border (AMS) than if you pass the Malaysian border (KUL).

I don't see why. See below.

If you board a flight which crosses the Schengen border, your passport details are sent for validation via a message no later than at the time of the departure of the fight. This is true for all outbound and inbound flights. So if you board a flight bound from PEK to AMS, they will pretty well know that you have a stolen passport and will happily await you in AMS upon arrival with handcuffs and a lot of questions. I dont think Malaysia has such requirement nor such a system as the EU in place.

SEPilot · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:18 pm

Quoting na (Reply 21):

If terrorists would have blown the 777 up at flight level then there would be many loose parts, mostly small, floating over a relatively vast area. That no traces have been found in two days does more look like it went down at high speed largely in one piece, taking "everything" underwater in the event.

Only if it disintegrated at altitude. It could have been crippled and descended intact slowly, and broken up at low altitude.

345tas · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:19 pm

Why on Earth are the Malaysians searching in the Straits of Malacca? According to the New Straits Times (can SE Asia English papers think of more original titles?), they already have 4 boats there and are sending another four. "If there is indication of the flight's location there, we will also deploy our aircrafts there," the head of the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency is quoted as saying. Apparently they're searching there due to the indications the plane might have headed back toward KUL. I think I also heard the acting Transport Minister on CNN earlier today saying the Indonesians are helping in the Straits, too.

It seems fairly unlikely the 772 could have flown undetected right across the Malaysian peninsula, only to crash into the Straits of Malacca. Perhaps not the best use of resources.

I've been following the threads closely and I don't think this has been mentioned: that the Italian dude claims his passport was stolen by someone who was at least claiming to be Italian himself (his husband, no less...). From the Guardian, quoting Thai media:

"Mr Maraldi said he arrived on Phuket on March 1 and was planning to leave on March 15. On a holiday last year, he said, he lost his passport in a deal that went wrong at a Patong motorcycle rent shop.

The woman who ran the shop told Mr Maraldi that she had given his passport to an Italian man who ‘'said Mr Maraldi was his husband.’ "

Re the possibility of the two being spies, it is certainly one possibility. As someone pointed out the place should be crawling with Mossad, given the large Lebanese and Iranian communities in KL. But it would be poor tradecraft for them to leave the country together and not separately. The circuitous routing into Europe does fit Mossad MO, however.
MISSING MH370: MMEA deployed four vessels to Straits of Malacca - Latest - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...-of-malacca-1.504613#ixzz2vUiFv4dh

sassiciai · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:24 pm

Once again, noting the rate at which this thread is growing, I will quickly interject

All this childish speculation about what might have happened and how it might have been possible and .......

I am for one reading this for NEWS about this incident, conscious that there people closer to the accident than me may be following this as a focal point for news originating anywhere.

How about trying to improve the quality of posts in regard to the thread topic. Open speculative threads "How might a plane at FL350 crash in the dark" or "stolen passports and their impact on aircraft crashes"

Edited for spelling

[Edited 2014-03-09 12:27:57]

flyingturtle · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:25 pm

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 215):
As usual, Starloinblue is right here. The only thing this shares with AF447 is that it was over open water and it is missing. Every other piece of evidence so far indicates a very different situation.

+ it was night, like in AF447
+ no distress call
+ the accident happened during cruise

We have next to zero evidence here. In my opinion, the lack of large (and floating) debris points to a high-speed impact. But a repetition of AF447 can't be ruled out at the moment, and I really hope this isn't the case.

It would be the supreme irony - everybody has heard how AF447 happened, and some of us still remember the cries against Airbus, its design and its flight envelope protections back in 2009...

David

LTC8K6 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:29 pm

Being only ~41 minutes after takeoff is very unlike AF447.

DALFA · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:30 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 223):
But a repetition of AF447 can't be ruled out at the moment, and I really hope this isn't the case.

As far as I know the weather in this case was ´perfect´ opposed to the mess that AF447 was flying into and which triggered a chain of events that eventually led to the crash.

D L X · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:33 pm

Is there anything at all preventing those who want to speculate from speculating? No. And it's not immoral to do so.

Is there anything at all preventing those who want to get news on this event from getting news? No. And it's not immoral to do so.

I really don't understand the name-calling about those who wish to speculate about what happened in the absence of news. I could have sworn this was an aviation enthusiast website. If not SPECULATION _AND_ NEWS, what is this site even for? Why is speculation only allowed by government authorities and engineers but not aviation enthusiasts?

Speculate away. I wouldn't be surprised if someone on here discovers the actual cause before the news or maybe even the investigators do. It won't be the first time.

ah414211 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:35 pm

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 222):
I am for one reading this for NEWS about this incident, conscious that there people closer to the accident than me may be following this as a focal point for news originating anywhere.

Might I suggest that if you're seeking NEWS perhaps you should stick to NEWS sites? This is NOT a news site, and the information here is often less than reliable, and speculative at best....

flyenthu · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:36 pm

If we "entertain" the idea of a mid air explosion over an ocean, the only incident that comes to my mind is AI 182 over the Atlantic. In that case, was the debris scattered over a large area? How long did it take for them to find the wreckage?

evomutant · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:37 pm

There is speculation, and then there is the wild fantasy that would make Hollywood blush.

Some people also seem to get rather too much enjoyment out of discussing how 200+ met their death, as if it some kind of soap opera plot we are discussing over the water cooler.

EVAAIRBR076 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:38 pm

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 222):

I don't get why people have to bring this up all the time. Everytime there is a crash we all speculate of what might have happenend, whats wrong with that? thats were a forum is for, to discuss things. People dont have to read it if u dont want, gosh what a whining sometimes form people. It went the same with previous crashes and the asiana crash, there were 8 or 9 parts of if with mostly people speculating and discuss of what might have happenend cause there wasnt much info, same this time, i think thats normal. Let people have their own theory of what might have happenend, nothing wrong with that. Expecially cause there isnt much info and we all still wait till they find something.

Planesmart · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:39 pm

Quoting 345tas (Reply 221):
Re the possibility of the two being spies, it is certainly one possibility. As someone pointed out the place should be crawling with Mossad, given the large Lebanese and Iranian communities in KL. But it would be poor tradecraft for them to leave the country together and not separately. The circuitous routing into Europe does fit Mossad MO, however.

In such a case, I think Mossad would have logged with Interpol that they (or another friendly country) had recovered the passports a few days or weeks before they were used, so no longer flagged.

flyingturtle · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:39 pm

Quoting DALFA (Reply 225):
As far as I know the weather in this case was ´perfect´ opposed to the mess that AF447 was flying into and which triggered a chain of events that eventually led to the crash.

According to the BEA report, AF447 only encountered light turbulence until the accident. And the weather itself had nothing to do with the clogging of the pitot tubes. A breakdown of CRM can happen on any flight - but on the other side, the captain of MH370 was very experienced with 18'000 hours.

David

David L · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:42 pm

So, as with most discussions about aviation accidents, we have "speculation" about a terrorist bomb, terrorist hijack, pilot hijack, pilot suicide, deliberate attack (e.g. by China), a drop to tree-top level to land in a secret far-away place (e.g. North Korea), a meteor strike and probably a few I've missed. And all these speculations are valid because there's no evidence to disprove them?

Meanwhile, a bunch of n00bs are waiting for any helpful information before trying to work out what happened.

Is that a reasonable summary?

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 223):
It would be the supreme irony - everybody has heard how AF447 happened, and some of us still remember the cries against Airbus, its design and its flight envelope protections back in 2009...

I was refraining from commenting on how differently this discussion is focused in comparison. Moving on...

ksbd · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:42 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 226):

Preach on! Just to add to some speculation, has anybody seriously considered extraterrestrial involvement yet?

pilotaydin · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:43 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 232):

Flying hours is a mis leading item.... TK 1951 had a captain someone i knew he had 17,000 hours.....

sassiciai · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:43 pm

Quoting ah414211 (Reply 227):
Might I suggest that if you're seeking NEWS perhaps you should stick to NEWS sites? This is NOT a news site, and the information here is often less than reliable, and speculative at best....

LOL!

If I follow BBC, I have one news source. If 10,000 a,netters each follows their own source, and tehn post NEWS on a.net, guess where my chance of NEWS is higher!

I enjoy speculation, and this site is full of such threads. What might happen with this engine? With this stretch? with 2 more wheels? etc etc ? When we are in a thread about an unexplained disappearance of an aircraft with 239 SOB, with the potential for friends and relatives looking here for, er, NEWS, then I do believe that some of the speculation is actually disrespectful, and ill-thought-out! Here in this thread currently we are speculating on the lives of 239 people!

Viscount724 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:44 pm

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 228):
If we "entertain" the idea of a mid air explosion over an ocean, the only incident that comes to my mind is AI 182 over the Atlantic. In that case, was the debris scattered over a large area? How long did it take for them to find the wreckage?

It was found almost immediately. Wreckage and floating bodies were first discovered by a passing ship. By the end of the first day they'd already recovered at least 120 bodies.
http://www.nytimes.com/1985/06/24/wo...-suspected-as-cause.html?ref=india

SCQ83 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:45 pm

Quoting 345tas (Reply 221):
MISSING MH370: MMEA deployed four vessels to Straits of Malacca - Latest - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...-of-malacca-1.504613#ixzz2vUiFv4dh

That is truly unbelievable... so does it mean the plane could be anywhere from Indonesia to Viet Nam?

D L X · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:46 pm

Quoting evomutant (Reply 229):
There is speculation, and then there is the wild fantasy that would make Hollywood blush.

So what?

You came here to learn, right? Speculating is how people learn.

The big difference between speculating on an aviation enthusiast website such as this and irresponsible speculation by the news is that on this website, we have actual pilots, engineers, and other knowledgable people actively responding to the various theories people come up with. Speculating here does not lead to misinforming the masses as does the media. In fact, it's quite the contrary. Speculating here increases the knowledge base of all that come here because you get to talk to these knowledgable people and learn from people who know.

Thunderboltdrgn · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:46 pm

Quoting marosbts (Reply 219):
If you board a flight which crosses the Schengen border, your passport details are sent for validation via a message no later than at the time of the departure of the fight. This is true for all outbound and inbound flights. So if you board a flight bound from PEK to AMS, they will pretty well know that you have a stolen passport and will happily await you in AMS upon arrival with handcuffs and a lot of questions. I dont think Malaysia has such requirement nor such a system as the EU in place.

In one of the articles already linked (I think it the one from LA Times), it specifically said that
it wasn't schengen who had the information but a database at Interpol where any country that
was connected to it could look up info about passports that have been reported lost/stolen.

From what was written in the article Malaysia and Malaysia Airways are able to do such
controls but somehow the two passengers on this flight made it on-board anyway.

DALFA · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 236):
Here in this thread currently we are speculating on the lives of 239 people!

I think you´re overreacting. No one is speculating on the lives of 239 people. This community is full of aviation enthusiasts that all wonder how a fantastic aircraft like the 777, an aircraft with an incredible safety record, can just disappear for over 30 hours.

SpaceshipDC10 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting ksbd (Reply 234):
has anybody seriously considered extraterrestrial involvement yet?

The only reference to extraterrestrial I can remember in these threads since the aircraft went missing was through a film on reply #58 of this thread.

flyingturtle · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting planesmart (Reply 231):
In such a case, I think Mossad would have logged with Interpol that they (or another friendly country) had recovered the passports a few days or weeks before they were used, so no longer flagged.

A passport once flagged (because of lost or theft) cannot be used anymore. If I lose my passport (or my ID card) and notify the police about the loss - there's no way I can use the passport again if I just misplaced it in my apartment, and found it after coming back from the police...

Although a new passport costs $$$ (about 160 US$), this is also meant to protect the passport holder. You never know what somebody did with your ID.

There's something much easier: Back in 1998, in Switzerland, a Mossad agent was tasked to spy on a Swiss citizen with Lebanese descent. He entered Switzerland with an Israeli passport, issued by Israel, but... a wrong identity.

David

Planesmart · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:51 pm

There is an overhead in terms of cost and IT capacity to use Interpol's database of Stolen and Lost Travel Documents, so many countries don't, or only use it at the start of the financial year, or when they are quiet. Some contribute to it, but don't use the information.

As a frequent traveller, it should be mandatory for all countries to publish the % of outgoing international passengers details that are checked. Then travellers can make more informed decisions on which countries to visit and avoid.

[Edited 2014-03-09 12:55:05]

LH648 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 178):
Common sense suggests that it is way more likely to be detected when using a stolen Schengen passport registered as such if you pass the Schengen border (AMS) than if you pass the Malaysian border (KUL).

You can buy a ticket, cross the border and board with one passport and enter the country with another.

May be those two guys were wanted by Malaysia and they used stolen passports to leave the country?

345tas · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:54 pm

Quoting planesmart (Reply 231):
In such a case, I think Mossad would have logged with Interpol that they (or another friendly country) had recovered the passports a few days or weeks before they were used, so no longer flagged.

Possibly, I can't say I'm an expert. Although Israel's use of other countries' passports, even friendly ones, is a sensitive topic. Although I would say by now that they would have let it be known to the US and/or to the media by a leak that the two 'Europeans' were theirs, thus ruling them out of the investigation.

I was just watching tonight's MH370 on FR24... what an eerie feeling it would be passing over the spot of last contact if you were on that flight..

trex8 · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:54 pm

Does anyone know if the 777 has had more "flight control anomalies" since the MH 124 incident in 2005?

If the Malaysian and Singaporean air defense systems had no track on this flight. Its a poor state of affairs they have especially for the Singaporeans who have spent so much in the last decade or two!! Or do they only think their threat comes from the south???

747megatop · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:54 pm

This is weird, i took the last know latitude and longitude from http://flightaware.com/live/flight/M.../20140307/1635Z/WMKK/ZBAA/tracklog at 35000 feet and plugged it into google maps and this is what i get -

https://www.google.com/maps/place/4%C2%B042'26.3%22N+102%C2%B031'40.1%22E/@4.1373719,103.143206,8z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

The last known position per google maps at that latitude and longitude is over land (in Malaysia to be specific, North East of KUL). Can someone please explain this? Doesn't seem to make sense; unless of course FlightAware is inaccurate.

David L · Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 238):
Quoting 345tas (Reply 221):MISSING MH370: MMEA deployed four vessels to Straits of Malacca - Latest - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...-of-malacca-1.504613#ixzz2vUiFv4dh

That is truly unbelievable... so does it mean the plane could be anywhere from Indonesia to Viet Nam?

Perhaps "just in case" and the resources are available. It would be a different matter if they'd moved the resources away from the Gulf of Thailand in order to search the Malacca Straits.

Quoting ksbd (Reply 234):
Just to add to some speculation, has anybody seriously considered extraterrestrial involvement yet?

To be fair to this discussion, that's something that's usually brought up much earlier.

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