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spacecadet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:40 pm

Quoting s5daw (Reply 173):
No no, look closer... it's probably aileron / flap actuator or sth. similar.

With a jagged edge like that? I'm talking about the big piece of jagged metal hanging down at the top of the photo on avherald, right in the middle. There's no way that's an aileron, but there's also no way that's in the water. It's a weird looking photo.

Edit: Just saw the pic of the Twin Otter - still doesn't seem like a match to me.

[Edited 2014-03-10 07:47:24]
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vfw614
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:41 pm

Quoting westjet_737 (Reply 195):
I'm not sure about how exactly it works in the EU, but neither itinerary to be used by the stolen passport holders passed through any of the issuing countries.

They did. The "country" in question is the Schengen area. A border control in AMS is as good as a border control in Austrian or Italy because once past immigration in AMS, the passport holder can travel to Austria or Italy without further border controls as all countries in question belong to the Schengen zone. Pretty much like entering the USA in Florida and travelling from there across state borders to California or Texas.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:42 pm

Quoting holzmann (Reply 205):
So if no small debris is found, what are the chances it landed intact on the water ( Miracle on Hudson) and then sank as a whole? Slim to none but that could explain the lack of debris.

Surely we would have spotted an intact 777 in ~50 meters of water by now...
 
JimJupiter
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:42 pm

Is it already time for the "authorities are hiding something" speculations? They can't even check the passports properly (rhetorical exaggeration, I know), but keep a scandalous secret with dozens or hundreds of people in the know? Sounds very likely.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:44 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 187):
OR are passports not scanned, and folks just waived in with a ‘welcome home’?

I can confirm that this is the case. 9 out of 10 times arriving in Germany or NL on a German or NL passport the immigration officer will just look at the passport for a second or 2, hand back the passport and waive you through. There is no scanning or passport most of the time. I doubt an Austrian passport would receive different treatment. Perhaps Italian arriving in Amsterdam would arise more suspicion but not necessarily.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:45 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 206):
There's no indication that ACARS was active on 9M-MRO

Actually there have been "indications" but no confirmation.
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Rotate
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:45 pm

Quoting na (Reply 198):
I mean, this plane cant disappear without sending out its regular automatic messages. These messages are known to the authorities.

Nope, that wrong. This feature of automated messages ACARS is not on all airlines, it cost money. MH doesn't have that.
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sejtam
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:47 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 208):
With a jagged edge like that? I'm talking about the big piece of jagged metal hanging down at the top of the photo on avherald, right in the middle. There's no way that's an aileron, but there's also no way that's in the water. It's a weird looking photo.

It looks like that is something hanging under that wing , maybe a hardpoint where a spare fuel tank (or in some case weapons) would be hung?

You can see the trailing edge of the wing at about 5/8th of the top edge of the picture and it looks like wing (dipped in a bank) extends about 1.8th into the picture.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:47 pm

Quoting na (Reply 198):

I wonder wether the Malaysian authorities already know what happened and are hiding it. I mean, this plane cant disappear without sending out its regular automatic messages. These messages are known to the authorities.

On the contrary, ADS-B messages are easily stopped by turning off the transponder. The transponder appears to have stopped working (whether intentionally or not, we don't know). That's where the trace seems to stop. As far as we know there were no ACARS messages so nothing there either.

- Why would the authorities hide what happened?
- How would they hide something given the international involvement?
- If they did manage to hide something, how would they expect to keep it hidden?

While yet another possibility, a government coverup seems unlikely.

Quoting holzmann (Reply 205):
Could we please quit mentioning TWA800? Everyone knows the report is bogus. Watch the documentary.

"Everyone knows" and a documentary vs. an official report. Barring stronger evidence, I'll stick with the official report for now.

[Edited 2014-03-10 07:52:39]
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:49 pm

Quoting na (Reply 198):
this plane cant disappear without sending out its regular automatic messages.
Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 206):
There's no indication that ACARS was active on 9M-MRO, iirc. It's an optional service.

According to Mandala499 in an earlier thread, this aircraft was not SATCOM equipped.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:52 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 209):
They did. The "country" in question is the Schengen area. A border control in AMS is as good as a border control in Austrian or Italy because once past immigration in AMS, the passport holder can travel to Austria or Italy without further border controls as all countries in question belong to the Schengen zone. Pretty much like entering the USA in Florida and travelling from there across state borders to California or Texas.

Thank you! I think I read something wrong from the original post as I was unsure of the meaning of "home country." I was under the false impression that there was a difference between an "Italian passport" and an "EU passport." I guess I have to travel more!
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:53 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 218):
According to Mandala499 in an earlier thread, this aircraft was not SATCOM equipped.

I think maybe it was tristarsteve who indicated later that it was. The antenna were an old style and not situated in a dome on top of the fuselage.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:53 pm

Quoting holzmann (Reply 205):
So if no small debris is found, what are the chances it landed intact on the water ( Miracle on Hudson) and then sank as a whole? Slim to none but that could explain the lack of debris.

Even AF447 had debris, although it is believed that it hit the water intact, most famously the tail fin.

Quoting marosbts (Reply 197):
The fact that they are searching west/south of the peninsula looks to me like them saying that their national air defense is so bad that you can fly with a large airliner through the country and remain undetected. Not something the generals would like to admit.

It adds to the mystery. Earlier it was reported that Mayalsian military radar observed the plane changing direction as if to return to land, although I can't recall if that piece of data was debunked like some others. However, if it did, then how did the Malaysians then totally lose it? If it did change direction then the newly reported debris field would seem to be in completely the wrong place too.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 210):
Surely we would have spotted an intact 777 in ~50 meters of water by now...

You would think so from flying overhead? If the SAR teams are in the right area, and unless the water is not at all clear there.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:54 pm

Quoting westjet_737 (Reply 219):

Thank you! I think I read something wrong from the original post as I was unsure of the meaning of "home country." I was under the false impression that there was a difference between an "Italian passport" and an "EU passport." I guess I have to travel more!

There is a difference in that the passports are issued by different countries. AFAIK "EU passport" is not a legal term. It means that the passport is issued by an EU country.

Having said that, within the Schengen Zone there are no border controls, so which one of those passports you hold is somewhat academic.

[Edited 2014-03-10 08:04:36]
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:57 pm

Quoting sejtam (Reply 216):
It looks like that is something hanging under that wing , maybe a hardpoint where a spare fuel tank (or in some case weapons) would be hung?

You can see the trailing edge of the wing at about 5/8th of the top edge of the picture and it looks like wing (dipped in a bank) extends about 1.8th into the picture.

Most likely this is the plane from which the pic was taken:

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na
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:57 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 206):
There's no indication that ACARS was active on 9M-MRO, iirc. It's an optional service.

If so, this event should lead to making it mandatory.

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 211):
the 777 has an exemplary safety record but it is by no means invincible and believe it or not, it is within the realms of possibility for something to go wrong with it.

Right. With so many Triple Sevens flying chances are that on one of them one time something just went awfully wrong. I have read that in the past MAS had problems with above average corrosion on its planes (the two 744s that were sold to QF for example).
To talk about statistics, serious accidents with modern planes are so rare that a single event like MH370 can turn a statistic around, the 777 now being lower down than the A340 or 744. With accidents thankfully being so rare though it means nothing unless something is found. With the exception of the MD-11 I think any plane (at least from A and B) which entered the market since the late 80s is the same in terms of safety.
 
spacecadet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:58 pm

Quoting holzmann (Reply 205):
hat are the chances it landed intact on the water ( Miracle on Hudson) and then sank as a whole? Slim to none but that could explain the lack of debris.

But then you'd have to explain how there aren't a bunch of people on rafts in the water. They'd still have found something. If it landed intact on the water, people would still be alive and at least some of them would be conscious enough to do something. If it hit the water hard enough to kill everybody, parts would break off and you'd see floating debris. Either way, there'd be something on the water.

I think the chances of it making an intact water landing are extremely low - I think that's probably the *least* likely of any scenario. At least with the theory of a landing on land you could envision a hijacking scenario, where the passengers were under hijacker control and that's why we haven't heard anything from them. But a water landing, there's no scenario I could think of where that would make any sense given the lack of anything at all being found. Hijackers aren't going to take over a plane and demand it be landed safely on the water. So people would be on rafts or other floatation devices.

The most likely scenario to me is that it hit the water in such a way that it's *mostly* intact, but too hard for anyone to get out, and the little bit of floating debris there is just hasn't been found yet and is now scattered all over the place.

[Edited 2014-03-10 08:01:10]
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LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:02 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 220):

I think maybe it was tristarsteve who indicated later that it was. The antenna were an old style and not situated in a dome on top of the fuselage.

Did he mean it had VHF ACARS and not the SATCOM ACARS?

Even so, I think it's an optional service.

VHF also might not work very well in that area.
 
greenair727
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:02 pm

Quote:
I can confirm that this is the case. 9 out of 10 times arriving in Germany or NL on a German or NL passport the immigration officer will just look at the passport for a second or 2, hand back the passport and waive you through. There is no scanning or passport most of the time. I doubt an Austrian passport would receive different treatment. Perhaps Italian arriving in Amsterdam would arise more suspicion but not necessarily.

Okay, thanks for clarification. Such a system does nothing to catch stolen passports (and those carrying them) or to protect the land from people entering illegally planning to do something horrible.
 
PanHAM
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:03 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 187):
IF it is standard procedure these days to scan each entering passport AND the home (issuing) countries would have immediately known that the document being scanned was stolen, then

They would have had to clear Immigration at AMS. It is likely that the Dutch officer in that case would have discovered that the passports are cancelled.

From the reports we have now, the tickets have been bought by a trafficker who organised the trip for illegal Aliens. Even if the Dutch officer had not noted anything, they would have declared themselves and asked for asylum. The whole purpose for such ventures.

Rules out the terrorism suspiciion, at least for these 2 passengers.
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vfw614
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:06 pm

Quoting CityhopperNL (Reply 213):
I can confirm that this is the case. 9 out of 10 times arriving in Germany or NL on a German or NL passport the immigration officer will just look at the passport for a second or 2, hand back the passport and waive you through. There is no scanning or passport most of the time. I doubt an Austrian passport would receive different treatment. Perhaps Italian arriving in Amsterdam would arise more suspicion but not necessarily.

Someone said earlier that for flights into Schengen, the passenger list is transmitted from the airport of departure. So if there is a reason for suspicion, I guess you are not able to sneak past border controls.

Happens quite often that people for which a search warrant has been issued are arrested upon arrival from outside Schengen (at least here in Germany). Certainly has nothing to do with bad luck, but with the authorities already awaiting that person.

[Edited 2014-03-10 08:11:58]
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:07 pm

Quoting na (Reply 224):
If so, this event should lead to making it mandatory.

A previous post referred to an article in "The Guardian" where the author says that these days airliners should be constantly transmitting select data going to the FDR. It shouldn't be difficult to do. The article was interesting but the author doesn't seem to have heard of ACARS.

[Edited 2014-03-10 08:11:34]

[Edited 2014-03-10 08:14:24]
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:09 pm

Quoting na (Reply 224):
To talk about statistics, serious accidents with modern planes are so rare that a single event like MH370 can turn a statistic around, the 777 now being lower down than the A340 or 744.

That's exactly why "safest airliner" statistics (and I use the term loosely) are rather meaningless. The 777 did not suddenly become much less safe to fly and the 340 and 744 aren't less safe than the 777 by any meaningful metric.

Too few events to be statistically significant, and accidents are not identical. AF447 made the 330s "statistics" much worse but you can hardly blame the poor airplane for pilots who do the wrong thing.
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hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:09 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 226):
Did he mean it had VHF ACARS and not the SATCOM ACARS?

The way I understood the context of the post he was talking about SatCom. However, I have no desire to go hunting back through previous parts to this thread trying to find it.  
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sejtam
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:10 pm

It is entirely possible that the two pax traveled with more than one passport. One European one to use in Asia (where that would be less likely to be checked thoroughly) and then using something else in Europe..

Re: search area:
While the newly found debris field holds hope, I am somewhat concerned that there is no official word on searching the countryside of southern Thailand/northern Malaysia. I am flabbergasted that they search the Straits of Malaccabut seem to have spent no thought on a crash somewhere in less accessible area (where a debris field of a direct impact would be contained, not float around/spread etc)... From looking at the maps the southern Thai part is much less inhabited than northern Malaysia (which I know from personal experience has some rather sparsely populated areas, esp where it is mountainous....)
 
AT
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:15 pm

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 194):
Two reasons. Transponders can misbehave and sometimes need to be power-cycled as a diagnostic step during flight. Second, circuit breakers. Any part of the electrical system needs to be able to be disconnected due to a number of reasons.

Third - and I know I said two - aircraft are not built with the assumption that flight crew will attempt to down the aircraft. While this has happened, there are valid reasons for cutting electrical power to the transponder and that is good enough.

I wonder could the transponders be powered separately by their own independent systems so that they are not vulnerable to the problems above?

And a related question, had the transponder been on, would we have been able to better locate the final position of the aircraft?
 
redflyer
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:17 pm

Quoting redadeco (Reply 24):
Why terrorism as a 1st reason? I personally dismiss this theory. All the speculations on terrorism are centred on Uyghur muslims living in XinJiang province who currently have issues with the central Chinese government; however, why the h**k would they target the flag carrier of a Muslim country with presumably passengers sharing the same faith as them.

I would've considered terrorism as a possible route to explore if this was an Air China flight, for instance.

Terrorism on this flight because 2/3 of the passengers were Chinese. As for the Muslims who happened to have perished along with the Chinese if this were a terrorist act, well, unfortunately Muslims have killed more Muslims than non-Muslims in their fight against infidels and their government sponsors.

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 43):
An aircraft can just not disappear, even if it is blown into pieces on 35000 ft altitude. There are too many items which floats in an aircraft. Once they will be able to find the crashsite, the picture will be clearer.

This is true, and would be even more plausible if the aircraft exploded in mid-air. My bet is that the airplane was taken in a nose dive into the ocean and impacted the water relatively intact. This would mitigate the amount of the debris field that would float in the water at the point where the flight ended.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 82):
1. Hijacking, so a voluntary shutoff of the transponder and then flying the aircraft (outside of PSR coverage) to an unknown (impact) location over the ocean.

I think a terrorist hijacking or pilot suicide are probably the most plausible explanations based on what is out there so far (and, yes, it's pure speculation on my part). But I don't think anyone would have made much effort to "fly" the plane once they took control of the cockpit.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 97):
Just remembered the USAF F-16 which crashed over Adriatic sea. The debris was found the next day IIRC and it took 3 days to find the pilot's body (he died during ejection). Adriatic sea is much smaller than gulf of thailand.

Not to mention that military flights are followed far more closely by their own military than civilian flights are. I'm sure the F-16's point of impact was known pretty quickly, and it was just a matter of time before any remnants of it were picked up. Also, an F-16's footprint, intact or after a crash, would be far smaller than a 777.

Quoting cbrboy (Reply 122):
If correct, this information seems to end the terrorism theory involving the two people on stolen EU passports. They were earlier booked to the same destinations on QR and EY by the 'Iranian man' but the reservations lapsed when they weren't paid for.

Why does it end the terrorism theory? All it does is imply that the Iranian middleman might be completely innocent. It doesn't mean the two people who purchased the tickets from him didn't have nefarious motivations. They may simply have not procured the cash necessary for the purchase the first time around.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 136):
I am thinking that the stolen passports are red herrings. Why would a terrorist need a stolen passport?

Because if they travel using their own true identities it might raise a red flag? Especially if their names are on some government's watch list.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:17 pm

Quoting Rotate (Reply 215):
Nope, that wrong. This feature of automated messages ACARS is not on all airlines, it cost money. MH doesn't have that.

I wouldn't call operating 15 A330's, 6 A380's, 63 737's, 13 (presumably 12 now) 777's as"MH not having that..".

They may have opted for not using it strictly to SAVE money..

Huge difference between 'having no money" and "saving money".

I would think at this point in the game, with so much at stake for EVERYONE (The Government's involved, the airline, the passengers' and their families, Boeing, Rolls, etc) that Boeing would have likely released SOME kind of a press-release indicating if ACARS was installed and operating on the plane, especially if it would have given any clue (even a small one) as to where to look.

There may be a lot of back-channel discussions happening that we aren't privileged to know as well though.

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sejtam
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:19 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 223):
Most likely this is the plane from which the pic was taken:

Nice find. Based on the wing-strut, I'd agree.

However, if this particular Twin-Otter that took this pic also had floats, it poses the question why they did not land to take samples for immediate investigation.

Or maybe they did, and that picture is actually from the previous debris field that was ruled out.....
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:21 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 230):
A previous post referred to an article in "The Guardian" where the author says that these days airliners should be constantly transmitting select data going to the FDR. It shouldn't be difficult to do. The article was interesting but the author doesn't seem to have heard of ACARS.

Apart from a seemingly general lack of knowledge on the subject matter, the author of the article is under the mistaken impression that DFDR and CVR have a role in search and rescue. They do not. The recorders are there for the investigators to find out what happened in order to make aviation safer.

Would constant transmission save lives? Doubtful, and it would be in very special cases. Thus not economically defensible with current technology. If you're going to spend money investing in aviation safety, there are other things to spend it on that would have more effect on safety. Better anti-incursion systems for many airport runways comes to mind just to name one thing.

If the recorders are not found immediately, this merely delays an investigation. It does not doom people to death. If you're at the stage where you really really need the recorders to figure out what happened, everyone on board is probably dead anyway.

Quoting AT (Reply 234):
I wonder could the transponders be powered separately by their own independent systems so that they are not vulnerable to the problems above?

Being able to power down transponders is not a problem. Transponders sometimes malfunction and need to be power cycled. Furthermore, you want the ability to power ANY electrical component down with absolute surety. It's a necessary safety feature.

You won't find any smart pilots who want to fly without being able to turn off something that may be endangering the aircraft by staying on. What if you have a short and electrical arcing without being able to kill the circuit?

Quoting AT (Reply 234):
And a related question, had the transponder been on, would we have been able to better locate the final position of the aircraft?

Most probably yes. And of course this relates back to "should the transponder be shut-offable". Since the two are somewhat mutually exclusive, it is safer to be able to shut it off and accept the occasional problem like this than to force it on and have the risk of a potentially uncontrollable electrical problem.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
mutu
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:21 pm

Quoting Toni_ (Reply 108):
I don't know in what way Malaysia’s civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman addressed the press, so I hold my initial judgment, but nevertheless I find it a bit unappropriate to crack jokes in a press conference, while loved ones are waiting for answers.

Having listened to the press conference, the speaker was actually pressed hard by the audience to explain what he meant by "non asian appearance". The laughter was unfortunate but came about because he clearly had an image of Balotelli in his head to answer the question but couldnt name the player initially - fumbled around with Bartorelli and a couple of other attempts before someone helped him out

Laughter still unfortunate but a bit of context demonstrates it was not ill intended.

On the subject of the stolen passport pax, I suspect this will turn out to be coincidental and not related (I dont rule anything out yet of course) but it does raise important lessons regardless. I know there have been threads on this board criticising UK airports for rescreening transfer passengers (yes its inconvenient) but the UK authorities have always felt there is a security benefit in doing so, and perhaps one lesson is to have more standard screening practices across the globe - I understand the lost/stolen passport databse held by Interpol is largely used by USA UK Australia, so actually perhaps we dont know who is truly sitting next to us. Worth thinking about.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:22 pm

Flightglobal just posted the following image:

Quote:
MH370 hunt in perspective. Red areas are search zones. Yellow circle is search area for #AF447 on the same scale.

http://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/443038630328549377/photo/1/large
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:24 pm

Civil Aviation Department (CAD) of Hong Kong SAR said it had received a report from a Cathay Pacific Hong Kong-Kuala Lumpur bound flight that a large amount of debris was spotted off the coast of Vung Tau, some 500km away from the current search area. Vietnam authorities has been notified.

Source: http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/articl...sing-passenger-plane-families-grow

YLWbased
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redadeco
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:26 pm

Quoting redflyer (Reply 235):
Terrorism on this flight because 2/3 of the passengers were Chinese. As for the Muslims who happened to have perished along with the Chinese if this were a terrorist act, well, unfortunately Muslims have killed more Muslims than non-Muslims in their fight against infidels and their government sponsors.

You're assuming then that the suspects who bought their tickets one day before departure know exactly where does each passenger on MH370 come from?
Seriously…

Terrorism IMO has to be ruled out given the details we have about how the suspects planned their trip through that agency in Pattaya.
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:27 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 240):
Flightglobal just posted the following image:

Am I to assume that "E" box to the West is the Malacca Straight? If so, WHY would they be looking there?

That's WELL West of where they were last reported...

1011yyz
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:27 pm

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 241):
Civil Aviation Department (CAD) of Hong Kong SAR said it had received a report from a Cathay Pacific Hong Kong-Kuala Lumpur bound flight that a large amount of debris was spotted off the coast of Vung Tau, some 500km away from the current search area. Vietnam authorities has been notified.

Source: http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/articl...-grow

And that's about the fifth time this has been mentioned in this thread...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
IADCA
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:28 pm

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 236):
I wouldn't call operating 15 A330's, 6 A380's, 63 737's, 13 (presumably 12 now) 777's as"MH not having that..".

They may have opted for not using it strictly to SAVE money..

Huge difference between 'having no money" and "saving money".

I would think at this point in the game, with so much at stake for EVERYONE (The Government's involved, the airline, the passengers' and their families, Boeing, Rolls, etc) that Boeing would have likely released SOME kind of a press-release indicating if ACARS was installed and operating on the plane, especially if it would have given any clue (even a small one) as to where to look.

There may be a lot of back-channel discussions happening that we aren't privileged to know as well though.

1011yyz

If you read his post with "that" referring to "ACARS" and not "money," it makes a lot more sense. Given that () and the fact that Rotate doesn't seem to write in totally perfect English, I read it that way.
 
giopan1975
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:30 pm

AF447 had hit water flat and in one piece and biggest part found floating was part of tail fin....it took them about 4 min to fall from cruise, no distress call made partly because they were not fully aware of the seriousness of situation until very late into 4 minute descent...any crash pattern is at play and there is some probability that nothing will ever be found floating and as clock ticks...

Story with stolen passports and connection to terrorism are all bullshit, they are fueling stolen passports story because they have nothing else to say...bomb scenario may be at play but not necessary in connection to stolen passports as people try to cheat authorities every day with false id down there every day...

What is deeply dissapointing to the aviation enthusiast is that 2014 and super dooper aviation technology cannot locate the point of a huge aircraft crash even in seconds after comm loss has been established....the myth of high tech aviation and technology is vanishing and left disgraced
 
sejtam
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:30 pm

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 243):
Am I to assume that "E" box to the West is the Malacca Straight? If so, WHY would they be looking there?

The Malacca Strait is actually areas A-D. E is more the South Andaman Sea.

They search(ed) there because there was suspicion that the plane turned back at some point .

Areas A-D are very busy with shipping, so any crash would likely have been noticed. Less so in area E...

In this I see that the landmass of Peninsular Malaysia was apparently included, but it's still lacking southern Thailand etc.
 
Flightsimboy
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 17):
My blood ran cold when I heard the news and would have done no matter what the aircraft type was. The way this thread is going, is that people seem to think this is far more awful than anything that has happened before because it involves the 777.

Human lives have been lost and it doesn't matter one iota to the families of those involved what the aircraft type was, nor should it matter to us.

The fact of the matter is that a plane went down and we need to know why it happened and how it could have happen. Questions that should answered irrespectively. Yes, it is unlikely it was a mechanical failure but believe it or not the 777 like any other aircraft type is not invincible. No aircraft is.

Well said!
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hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 236):
that Boeing would have likely released SOME kind of a press-release indicating if ACARS was installed and operating on the plane

I think that would be MH's responsibility. I believe ACARS data is proprietary.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
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pvjin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:40 pm

I wonder if it just ended up in some remote forests of Malaysia / Thailand or possibly even Vietnam, that would explain lack of floating debris.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
na
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:41 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 212):
According to Mandala499 in an earlier thread, this aircraft was not SATCOM equipped.

From Flightglobal: "Flightglobal asked Malaysia Airlines about signals from the 777’s Aircraft Communications and Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS), but the carrier declined to comment citing “pending investigations” by Malaysia’s Department of Civil Aviation."

So it had ACARS apparently. At least MAS would have said it hadnt if it hadnt, dont you think. The comment by the airline points to that there are messages which are being investigated. I wonder why it should take days to do so.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 243):
I believe ACARS data is proprietary.

My limited knowledge on ACARS says that all transmissions are basically... public. Especially when transmitted over VHF. But some airlines do encrypt their ACARS messages, because they contain business secrets (e.g. fuel burn numbers).


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
sejtam
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting na (Reply 245):
From Flightglobal: "Flightglobal asked Malaysia Airlines about signals from the 777’s Aircraft Communications and Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS), but the carrier declined to comment citing “pending investigations” by Malaysia’s Department of Civil Aviation."

So it had ACARS apparently.

That's quite a leap you made. Maybe they declined comment to not have to explain the lack of ACARS at this point/to the many distressed folks...
 
na
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:48 pm

Quoting sejtam (Reply 247):
That's quite a leap you made. Maybe they declined comment to not have to explain the lack of ACARS at this point/to the many distressed folks...

While I agree with the latter being possible I would expect flightglobal to know wether the plane had such device or not.
 
bjorn14
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:51 pm

To greenair:
If it is an illegal immigration scam then likely they would destroy their documents on the plane and gotten off and claimed asylum. AMS has 2 seperate areas Schengen and non-Schengen. I don't ever remember my passport being scanned @ AMS entering from non-Schengen just stamped.
It would be possible to continue on to their destinations undetected unless an agent spots that this passport had been altered. My question is why Denmark? The Danes have virtually locked down the country for new immigrants.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
indcwby
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:54 pm

So, here at work, one ex-military guy brought up the idea of the plane being hijacked and landing in a remote location of a nearby country.

Laos or Cambodia?

But can a commercial liner go off the grid without being detected? (No ADS-B, transponder, etc)
A319, A320, A330, A340, B717, B727, B737, B747, B757, B767, B777, CRJ7, DC10, MD88, MD11, E145, E175
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rcair1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:55 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 73):
If the plane had exploded at high altitude there would be massive amounts of debris floating--there is none which makes me think it went down relatively intact

Agreed. Right now - we know virtually nothing, but the fact that we have not found debris or witnesses and that advanced technology has indicated large high altitude explosions were not detected, I'm leaning toward some sort of crash of a relatively intact airplane.
This leads me to speculate one of the following may be possible (not an exclusive list of course and not in any order of priority.) And please remember - there is NO evidence of any of these.
- Hijacking in which a/c was diverted to some other place and crashed en-route or there.
- Failure that damaged a/c but did not make it unflyable - followed by pilots trying to get somewhere to put it down. (note, either comms out or more likely too busy). This could be either mech or terrorism related.
- Failure that did make the aircraft unflyable, but such that a crash followed a rapid decent, but intact.

Essentially it would be either CFIT or intact rapid descent/crash.

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 230):
that Boeing would have likely released SOME kind of a press-release indicating if ACARS was installed and operating on the plane

Very likely they cannot do that without permission from the contracting company. They may be asking for that permission or not.

Quoting redadeco (Reply 236):
You're assuming then that the suspects who bought their tickets

And that they are suspects in a crime (related to the crash). We don't even know if there is a crime.

As time goes on and we find nothing, I'm leaning more and more toward the a/c continued for quite some distance before crashing. We may not know where to look.
rcair1
 
stuyyz
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:55 pm

Quoting redadeco (Reply 236):
Terrorism IMO has to be ruled out given the details we have about how the suspects planned their trip through that agency in Pattaya.

Why ruled out? It likely rules out Terrorism by these two passengers, yes, but what about all the other passengers?

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