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ComeAndGo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:11 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 134):
One scenario: One of the pilots needs to use the bathroom and when he exits or enters the flight deck, hijacker(s) forces his/her way into the cockpit before the other pilot can react.

Right ! And then . . . and then fly the plane down to treetop level, so it's off radar, Then they fly the plane to Yemen and park it on some runway somewhere in the desert. It will be used in future terror attacks.

Why do you think nobody can find the plane? And why are they looking everywhere? That's because it vanished. That's right, it's in Yemen.
 
AADC10
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:12 pm

This may have been covered earlier but the search function works as well as ever. I noticed in the articles I have read about MH370 (not that I have read a huge number of them) that a cabin air leak causing the pilots to pass out was never mentioned as a possibility. Is that not possible in a 772? I am sure that there are lots of alarms in that situation.

Of course, if they passed out, the plane was probably on autopilot and would have continued on over land and would have been spotted, unless they got confused due to the lack of oxygen and switched it off, turned some odd direction and nosedived into the water.
 
Ideekay
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:12 pm

I have the feeling that something is totally wrong here.
It must be a very good planned mission. If 19 phones were ringing, why can't nobody locate them? I mean that should be no problem in todays world..
And as someone mentioned, the phones wouldn't ring if they were unterwater, could it be that they maybe flew the plane to a private airfield owned by the "terrorists" maybe?
 
CptHaddock
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:13 pm

Strange moment to join the Anet community, after so many years of lurking.

Saw the picture of a field debris spotted off the eastern coast of Vietnam, far away from where it was expected. Far away from the last know position.

Something's ringing in my head: HYPOXIA.

Plane unresponsive 40 mn after take off, when it reaches its cruise altitude. Flight crew doesn't answer vietnamese ATC calls. Assistance is requested from another plane, the captain says he established contact, but hears only mumbling voices. I remember the amazing record of that Kalitta flight incident available on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IqWal_EmBg

Of course, you could say the plane would have just been flying at FL350 until there was no more fuel. But what if the crew realizes there's something wrong, disengages autopilot, tries to regain control… lacks lucidity… plane flying erratically… until it hits the ocean in an unexpected place.

Another part of me thinks building this scenario is useless. Thinking about the comment made yesterday by a dutch member about decency. Sure, there's nothing wrong about searching an answer, and I'm not blaming anybody. As long it doesn't turn into entertainment, excitement. This is a terrible drama, not a detective game.

I'm confident we'll learn about the cause of this drama. Just a question of time and method. Starting from evidences and not theories.
 
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pvjin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:16 pm

Quoting ideekay (Reply 152):
And as someone mentioned, the phones wouldn't ring if they were unterwater, could it be that they maybe flew the plane to a private airfield owned by the "terrorists" maybe?

A phone of an AF447 pax did appear to ring although it was actually on bottom of the Atlantic. So that proves nothing, just because it appears to ring to the caller doesn't really mean it actually does...

// Somehow I managed to double post, bad internet connection atm...

[Edited 2014-03-10 12:18:42]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:16 pm

Quoting AT (Reply 135):
One relatively easy precaution for the future is to absolutely require two crew members in the cockpit at all times. If one has to leave to use the facilities or rest, a flight attendant (or another pilot, in the case of longer haul flights with more than a 2 crew complement) must first come in

Actually that's already done in many places. The problem it is intended to solve is with locked cockpit doors that cannot be opened from outside what happens if the one pilot on the flight deck becomes incapacitated.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:18 pm

Quoting CptHaddock (Reply 153):
Something's ringing in my head

Hypoxia will cause that.   Oh, and welcome to anet!

[Edited 2014-03-10 12:19:06]
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:19 pm

Quoting CptHaddock (Reply 153):

They'd have to shut off the transponder, other comms like ACARS, and also hide from primary radars.
 
liquidair
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:20 pm

The fact that the authorities have identified one of the two fake passport passengers must mean they were known to the authorities.

That definitely points towards criminal activity. But which one specifically?
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JimJupiter
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:20 pm

Quoting CptHaddock (Reply 153):
Assistance is requested from another plane, the captain says he established contact, but hears only mumbling voices.

That report has already been proven wrong, iirc.
One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:21 pm

Quoting ideekay (Reply 152):
And as someone mentioned, the phones wouldn't ring if they were unterwater, could it be that they maybe flew the plane to a private airfield owned by the "terrorists" maybe?

If this is terrorism they're doing a horrible job of it.

Terrorism isn't just done for amusement. It's done to terrify people into complying with a demand. Perhaps they want Israel to self-destruct and go away, or the US to release an AQ terrorist or whatever. The point is that terrorism is done for attention and to accomplish a goal.

So if this is terrorism, then they really need to work on the PR arm of it. At least claim responsibility.

If that plane flew below 1,000 ft to a friendly airfield and they are holding all the passengers hostage, then why have there been no demands yet?
-Doc Lightning-

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djm18
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:21 pm

CNN has a story on the tickets purchased for the passengers with stolen passports. Clearly the link to Iran is interesting and may or may not be relevant. Can someone determine if Class V for this flight is economy, business or first class. It would be interesting to learn where these passangers were seated.

Again, I realize this may be a complete dead end but there is little else at present...

CNN Story

"Tickets linked to stolen passports for missing Malaysia flight were purchased by Iranian man, authorities say."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/10/world/...ry-passengers/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
 
michi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:23 pm

The debris field spotted by another aircraft is rather interesting (see avherald).

None of the speculative theories on this board would be an explanation how the MH370 might have ended up there (in case it is the aircrafts debris).

I doubt that the aircraft was destroyed / crashed close to the last known position (explosion, disintegration). It would be an "easy" find. Lots of debris close to a known position.

It is getting more difficult, the further the airplane flew after the last contact. Heading changes, range, remaining aircraft capabilities after failures are all not known.

History tells us, that aircraft crashes are far from being simple. It takes more that one failure to be catastrophic. All the speculation done so far regarding MH370 by the media and other people might be way to simple compared to reality.

But it is not easy to think more complex in order to come to an rational conclusion. An iterative approach might be helpful. All those maps available with search patterns look random to me. Meaning they have no clue what they are doing. But it might just look so, because the level of information is not the same (for sure).

Starting a search at the last known position is a good starting point for the search. But why don't they search along the planned routing or the general direction of the flight?

Therefore I believe that it might be a good idea to take a closer look to the debris found close to Vung Tau.
 
Ideekay
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 161):
If that plane flew below 1,000 ft to a friendly airfield and they are holding all the passengers hostage, then why have there been no demands yet?

Well thats true, still hoping that they would be at some friendly airfield..
 
rcair1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:25 pm

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 88):
could the inexperienced FO inadvertently flicked a switch that led to the plane losing control in which he was unable to recover?

Very unlikely. There is no single 'switch' you can click on a 777 that will render it unflyable

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 92):
That's why I said it's not clear from the reports I've seen if they're ringing and then going to voicemail, or ringing and then getting a message that the call can't be completed. In the latter case, it may be one network trying to connect to another, which then can't locate the phones. That would probably happen if they had already transited onto another network at the time of the accident.
Quoting spacecadet (Reply 92):
I suppose it could be that only one tower's got them, which would mean a large radius to search and maybe not much help beyond what they already know
Quoting na (Reply 94):
I think the mobilphone issue is a myth. makes no sense at all to me.

I think all the discussion about mobile phones is a red herring (meaning a false lead).
Some points:
- The ring sound is not generated at the phone, but by the system. It can be ringing while the system is looking for the phone. Several rings before the diversion to VM is not an indicator of a cell phone talking to a tower.
- If a phone was connected to the network you do not need to ring it - the phone would be registered with the network.
- If a phone was connected to the network, it would be trivial and quick to find the tower it is connected to. This would give a very solid search radius. I'm quite sure that this would have been done.
- Even if a phone is registering only intermittently, the system would have a record.
- Any cell phone that is in a weak area will go to a high power mode - and the battery would be dead by now.

Quoting btfarrwm (Reply 99):
What about using the GPS receivers in these phones to try and locate the wreckage?

You have to connect to the phone for this - unlike generating a ring. If they had a phone connected, they would already have a good idea of location - without GPS.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 102):

After nearly 72 hours,

- Any cell phone that is in a weak area will go to a high power mode - and the battery would be dead by now.
rcair1
 
mandala499
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:25 pm

Quoting jasondn (Reply 132):
It seems that the field of vision is limited to a haziness / foggy conditions.

Typical for tropical shallow waters.

Been chased by the media again today... and just as I was reading part 8, it was closed, by the time I run through interviews etc and reading part 9... it was closed already.   Oh well...

Anyway...
Cellphones can ring but no one picked up.
Sorry, harsh reality... Cellphones & water = dead. Cellphones & severe crashes = dead. Yet, in the Adam Air crash, where we now know the plane went into the sea... the ringing tone can occur several days after. In the Sukhoi crash hitting a mountain, phones that were destroyed in the crash, was still "connecting" with the tone... Both, despite the fact that after the crash the phones were outside cell coverage. Go and figure.

Some international media asked me if passport control at KUL was lax and insecure... WTH? Am in Indonesia and no expert on KUL security. *facepalm* But the media jumping at this is sickening. This is directed at keeping the frenzy going when the authorities have nothing or much to say about the 2 fake passports... then they can feed it with allegations of a cover up.

Several asked me what could happen... they seem to be fed up of listening to "this must be an explosion"... I just said that no matter how advanced the plane is... it's not perfect... remember, we are still dependent on the crew. If they had a simple problem and ended up task saturated in troubleshooting, you have an AF447 or a KI574 scenario...

Plane turned before disappearing doesn't mean it's going back to land. Again, I lost count the number of media I had to state this to. AF447, the plane turned during it's fatal descent. Same with KI574... Plus, the airway they were at had a turn... not enough details.

"We didn't see any debris so it must be an explosion"... well, it has to be one heck of an explosion beyond TWA800 or PA103 for the plane to be blown to little pieces.

Then we go to... "why can't we stream the blackboxes... we already have high speed satcom"... OK... you tell me how it's going to talk to the satellite when it's upside down... and you tell me how long would it re-lock to the satellite if it goes upright again... And yeah, streaming costs money. Periodic automatic sending of data costs money. The less sexy solution of having rapid position data transmissions during an upset, is largely ignored. Oh well... I guess "in the name of safety" can be a huge money sucker these days... (just look at how many SMS courses there are designed for idiots, made by big names).

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 51):
If the point where the heading seems to have changed to 40deg is IGARI, then that may not be much of a lead as it seems it took a turn towards 037deg in the previous days:

Back on more serious tone...
Simple explanation... Off route to IGARI is simply a direct to IGARI from the departures bypassing waypoints PIBOS and anything else on airway R208 until IGARI. This is by ATC clearance only... otherwise, follow the routes... Then why in previous days it goes to 37deg from IGARI and not that night? Again, ATC giving a shortcut... from IGARI direct to TSN VOR or BMT VOR... this bypasses the 40deg leg to BITOD along M765 and then anything else along L637 (until TSN) and/or W1 (until BMT)... but then the flight may have been filed that night for M765 until DAGAG before heading north...
Now, if the filed route is the same, then we can speculate that ATC in Saigon couldn't establish adequate communications with MH370 to give it the shortcut... (as it does save a few miles)...
If they filed for M765 until DAGAG, well, this doesn't tell much.

So much for this "turn"...

Am off for some much needed rest...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:26 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 161):
Terrorism isn't just done for amusement. It's done to terrify people into complying with a demand.

Or it could be they want to drive anetters crazy (they're doing a pretty good job of that).
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
huxrules
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:26 pm

Anyone know what make and model of ELT Boeing puts into their 777? Being that we just had one catch fire in a 787 I wonder if MH has inspected theirs. Is the ELT antennas anywhere near the radio antennas on a 777? Imagine an inflight fire that disables the ELT and then does a number on the radios. The plane tries to turn back and then ends up in the water far off course. Just another of the many many hypothesis.
 
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lugie
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:30 pm

Quoting IAHWorldFlyer (Reply 136):
I've read most of these posts, but not all, so pardon if this has been asked already---

Could it be possible for there to be an onboard fire like on SwissAir 111 that rendered electrical and communications systems moot, yet the plane glided some distance before crashing, a la Air TransAt that glided on no engines for over an hour to the Azores?
Which makes me wonder if the plane is somewhere on a mountainside in Cambodia or western Vietnam?

I don't know...

of course pretty much NOTHING can be 100% excluded currently, however I doubt it was a fire.

Why? because in that case it would have had to be an extremely sudden blaze that exstinguished all electric supply on the aircraft without any warning signs beforehand.

I guess there should have been some kind of burning smell/fumes/smoke in the cabin or the flight deck before a possible fire would have destroyed anything and since AC 919 and SR 111 ANY sign of a potential fire prompts a pilot to make his/her way to the nearest airfield asap.
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solarflyer22
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:33 pm

Quoting huxrules (Reply 168):
Anyone know what make and model of ELT Boeing puts into their 777? Being that we just had one catch fire in a 787 I wonder if MH has inspected theirs. Is the ELT antennas anywhere near the radio antennas on a 777? Imagine an inflight fire that disables the ELT and then does a number on the radios.

That's what I was wondering. What is the battery life on the ELT? I thought it was only 30 days.
 
rcair1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:34 pm

Quoting CptHaddock (Reply 153):
Plane unresponsive 40 mn after take off, when it reaches its cruise altitude

The aircraft would not become hypoxic, just the people. So you'd still see secondary radar, return, etc.

Quoting huxrules (Reply 168):
Anyone know what make and model of ELT Boeing puts into their 777

We know it includes Honeywell since Boeing asked operators of 777's to inspect them after the 787 fire in the UK. However, that does not mean it is only Honey well.

The interesting point is that Boeing asked them to inspect or remove the Honeywell ELT. I recall a discussion about if a modern airliner needs an ELT after that - and apparently not all have them.
I assume that if the 777 in question had no ELT - we'd know that.
rcair1
 
KELPkid
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:38 pm

Quoting danj555 (Reply 84):
additional article with more info. check highlighted text.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0

Ok, not claiming to know everything. or even have read the entire article. just wanted the forum to have this.

Anyone know why AvHerald is down? Is it from us a.nutters, or are they getting a DDOS attack?
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
billreid
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:41 pm

phone ringing makes sense.

If you call a phone the network searches for the phone and it rings. Usually the caller hears two rings before the receiver hears the ringing.
In the case of a lost or unpowered phone the netwerk will be unable to locate the phone and it will continue to search the globe for it.

To test this theory. Remove your simcard from your phone. Turn it on with out the card. then turn it off again without re-installing the simcard. Then try to call the phone from another phone. I believe it will continue to ring in a search mode for a simcard that it can't find.

Someone please test and respond to this blog. This may dispel the phone theory.
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e195
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:42 pm

another theory
Could they have Hypoxia, (hellas air years ago..?) and when realised accidentally knocked off communications (is that possible at all?), then in turn and in confusion instead of trying to turn back to find landfall to land, instead find themselves further out to sea, then they passed away and the aircraft eventually ran out of fuel and ditched?

What is radar coverage like for the suspected debris field spotted by the new HKG crew recently?

E195
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456
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:43 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 172):

It's working here (Netherlands) at the moment.
 
Burkhard
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:43 pm

Is the following impossible.?

A fire in the cockpit destroyed communication Equipment. Pilots tried to turn back and got unconscious or killed by the fire. The aircraft with engines running continued quite a while - which could be fof hours....
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:44 pm

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 57):
4) Suicidal pilot: one of the pilots first turning off the transponder and ACARS, then flying and crashing the plane into the sea. Does not explain how the other pilot is incapacitated.

Well, Ethiopian 702 proved how that's easily done, and that was less than a month ago.. - wait until the other crew member leaves the cockpit for a restroom break, and then lock them out. Now, how easy is that?

Quoting ideekay (Reply 152):
And as someone mentioned, the phones wouldn't ring if they were unterwater, could it be that they maybe flew the plane to a private airfield owned by the "terrorists" maybe?

If the plane was hijacked, flown down to below radar detection altitudes, and landed at a private runway, don't you think the 'terrorists' would ask the passengers to turn off and hand over their phone to keep their detection hidden? I mean, it would seem silly to think that they would let everyone keep their phones.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
ejl
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:44 pm

Hi...

For what it is worth...Landsat8 (en earth orbiting satellite) took pictures of more or less the flight path of MH-370. The pictures were taken on 8 March 2014 at around 10h00 local time. There are three images from this time available in a line stretching from Kota Bharu (Malaysia) to Thochu Island (Vietnam). It may be of use to experts. The pixels are a bit coarse (30m x 30m with 15m x 15m black and white) but if there was a debris field or hydrocarbon slick, it may detect it. Each 'picture' is 168km x 168km.

I've been searching the scenes, actually, as it is what I do for a living...but I am not a specialist at over-water remote sensing. I would imagine someone already thought of this?

will try to make a little graphic of the image footprints so you can see where they are.

ejl

first post...by the way.
 
davs5032
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:45 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 150):
Right ! And then . . . and then fly the plane down to treetop level, so it's off radar, Then they fly the plane to Yemen and park it on some runway somewhere in the desert. It will be used in future terror attacks.

Why do you think nobody can find the plane? And why are they looking everywhere? That's because it vanished. That's right, it's in Yemen.

The idea that the culprit turned off all transponders to disappear from secondary radar and descended to a low altitude to fly thousands of miles away just doesn't seem realistic for me at all. Too many things would prevent this from happening without being discovered. Would flying at a low altitude really prevent any detection from primary radars? At some point, they would have had to fly over land and population to get to where you theorize...why wouldn't any primary radars have detected such movement? How wouldn't many inhabitants (if flying low over land) or ships (if over sea) have seen such activity and reported to authorities by now? Also, wouldn't flying at a low altitude allow the pax themselves to receive cell phone reception and alert someone?
 
SKAirbus
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:46 pm

The ATC mumbling sounds like it could bear a clue... sounds possible that the pilots were drifting in and out of consciousness.

That could be caused by a million things.... including an airborne/chemical attack (remember you can bring 100ml of liquids into the plane... depressurisation, a fire etc etc.
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virgin744
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:47 pm

Quoting ejl (Reply 177):

Thanks for that info. And welcome aboard!
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:48 pm

Quoting michi (Reply 163):

CNN has a story on the tickets purchased for the passengers with stolen passports. Clearly the link to Iran is interesting and may or may not be relevant. Can someone determine if Class V for this flight is economy, business or first class. It would be interesting to learn where these passangers were seated.

The airfare was a shade over $600.00. Which class do you think that would put one in?
 
anstar
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:49 pm

Quoting E195 (Reply 173):

another theory
Could they have Hypoxia, (hellas air years ago..?)

I think most airlines have procedures in place to have communications with the flight crew at regular intervals to prevent this sort of thing happening again.

So lets move to conspiracy theories...

What are the chances of a Hijack and the plane was shot down or hit by a missile and its currently being kept quiet (and we may never know what happened)....
 
n729pa
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 63):
As much as I think it unlikely, dont forget the precedent of the JAL B747


But the aircraft still had radio contact and was able to send out a distress signal.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 16):
I have difficulties to imagine an event happening at cruising altitude that could crush a whole airliner into very small parts. The SR MD-11 was, but it happened when it hit the water with tremendous forces.



I have to confess I thought of both SR111 and AF447, and MS990.

Personally I don't think the 2 individuals with the stolen passports had anything to do with this.

Whilst on first hearing the news terrorism first came to mind, I don't think that is the case, IMO. Terrorism is normally done to highlight a cause, so far no one has come forward or admitted to this incident, that is not to say it isn't so, as not every time does the party involved come forward straight away. For example had Richard Reid (the shoe bomber) succeeded it would have taken a few days to find out about his background, and unless he left a note/recording specifically saying "I'm going to ........" , it could have been difficult to identify the bomber amongst a list of names unless there was something to link him/them to an attack.


Going back to the situation with SR111, some years back I read that it had hit the water and "telescoped" in on itself, causing the plane to compact and break up into much smaller pieces than usual. I won't go into graphic detail about the casualities. But I assume this would also create a very tiny debris field.

AF447 happened around the same time of day, but as I understand the weather was not a factor this time. But there doesn't appear to be any suggestion this flight lost height to the point where it disappeared and hit the water. Although AF447 was in a bit of a black spot between continents, MH370 wasn't so I assume had she been descending through error or disorientation in the dark, this would have been visble on the radar.

Which brings me to MS990.

Could MH370 have been brought down deliberately by one of the crew? In which case it could have impacted with the sea at high speed similar to SR111, and leaving a small debris field which is why they can't find it. Where as a plane exploding at 35,000 ft would leave a large debris field over an area spread by the jetstream and sea currents alike.


What we know is that the 777 is a very strong, reliable and safe aeroplane. I far as I know (and heard), Malaysia Airlines are a well respected and sound operator, so IMHO, this is why I feel there is something deliberate behind this.

We are all just speculating at this time, because no one does really know yet, so this is purely just my thoughts on the matter.


I do hate the way the media stick camera's into the faces of people arriving at the airport or help centres, when they are clearly so distressed. Regardless of what the cause is, my thoughts are with the families and friends of those on board. May they find peace.
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting DJM18 (Reply 162):
CNN has a story on the tickets purchased for the passengers with stolen passports. Clearly the link to Iran is interesting and may or may not be relevant. Can someone determine if Class V for this flight is economy, business or first class. It would be interesting to learn where these passangers were seated.

It's discounted economy. At least two bulkheads between the pax and the cockpit.
 
Ideekay
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:54 pm

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 176):
If the plane was hijacked, flown down to below radar detection altitudes, and landed at a private runway, don't you think the 'terrorists' would ask the passengers to turn off and hand over their phone to keep their detection hidden? I mean, it would seem silly to think that they would let everyone keep their phones.

I don't say that people are still keeping the phones, maybe the terrorists collected the phones and let them on, but don't ask me for what reason.
 
s5daw
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:54 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 151):
I noticed in the articles I have read about MH370 (not that I have read a huge number of them) that a cabin air leak causing the pilots to pass out was never mentioned as a possibility.

Does not explain lose of secondary radar...

There's no point really in trying to figure what caused the disappearance before we get to know the outcome...
 
David L
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 179):
The ATC mumbling sounds like it could bear a clue

Except that story was debunked yesterday.
 
indcwby
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting n729pa (Reply 183):
Personally I don't think the 2 individuals with the stolen passports had anything to do with this.

And reports that an Iranian purchasing both tickets doesn't set off any bells?
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lnglive1011yyz
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting ideekay (Reply 185):
I don't say that people are still keeping the phones, maybe the terrorists collected the phones and let them on, but don't ask me for what reason.

I'm just saying - why go to such lengths to hide your plane, and then expose yourself via the cellular networks. All those phones would be ringing from their family members calling them, and then the investigators would be able to pinpoint EXACTLY where the plane is.

Just saying it's highly improbable - I'm just one aviation enthusiast trying to debunk and suggest things like you are.. lol

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CALTECH
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:00 pm

Quoting n729pa (Reply 183):
Could MH370 have been brought down deliberately by one of the crew? In which case it could have impacted with the sea at high speed similar to SR111, and leaving a small debris field which is why they can't find it. Where as a plane exploding at 35,000 ft would leave a large debris field over an area spread by the jetstream and sea currents alike.

If the fuselage remained intact after impact with the sea, it would leave very little debris. Which it is kinda sounding like. If the fuselage came apart at altitude, there should be debris spread everywhere. The turn back supposedly seen on radar, could have been piloted, but without a call first telling air traffic control and or the home base that they were returning, doesn't seem likely. The turn seen on radar could have been the beginning of the final plunge or flight into the sea and uncontrolled.
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pvjin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:00 pm

Quoting indcwby (Reply 188):
And reports that an Iranian purchasing both tickets doesn't set off any bells?

Why would an Iranian want to bomb down a Malaysian airliner?

I don't think it should be any more alarming than an American buying those tickets.
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LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:01 pm

Quoting indcwby (Reply 188):

And reports that an Iranian purchasing both tickets doesn't set off any bells?

No, he is apparently well known to the ticket agent and commonly brokers tickets for a cut. He's a sort of salesman.

[Edited 2014-03-10 13:02:27]
 
marosbts
Posts: 126
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting indcwby (Reply 188):

Quoting n729pa (Reply 183):
Personally I don't think the 2 individuals with the stolen passports had anything to do with this.

And reports that an Iranian purchasing both tickets doesn't set off any bells?

You know not every single Iranian citizen is a terrorist? It may not have anything to do with the crash and those 2 persons are just immigrants trying to get to the EU. Do you know how many persons with forged / stolen passports were on board of the Air India Express 737 which crashed on landing? 10! Yet none of them had anything to do with terrorism.

I am sure this will be investigated, but you should not jump the gun and scream terrorists anytime an aircraft falls off the skies.
 
fraapproach
Posts: 52
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:05 pm

With respect to the ringing cellphones: Wouldn't it be possible to make a pretty precise location of the phones by the location of the cellphone towers the call is routed through?

Just one other idea to mention: If the plane was last located around IGARI based on its remaining range which should be ~ 2500 and 3000 miles it could be anywhere between the west coast of India, the Australian west coast near Perth or east of the Philipines. If we take into account it could have gone anywhere unnoticed from the last known position at IGARI, then a serious expansion of the search area needs to be made. Can we discount a dissapearance over land at all?
 
vnangia
Posts: 75
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting indcwby (Reply 188):
And reports that an Iranian purchasing both tickets doesn't set off any bells?

Not ... really, no. I mean I know the US government/media narrative is that Iran is just chockful of terrorists, but that's not exactly true. Besides, for all we know, a slightly sketchy agency in Pattaya is trying to deflect blame. By all accounts, sans seating chart, but given the fare code, it was a discounted economy ticket, so they have to rush a couple of bulkheads worth of airplane to get to the cockpit, all before the tech crew sees them coming and shutting the door. Possible, but improbable.
 
virgin744
Posts: 825
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 1999 5:51 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:08 pm

Quoting indcwby (Reply 188):
And reports that an Iranian purchasing both tickets doesn't set off any bells?

Apparently he had been there previously and was known to the travel agent. Seems peculiar that someone would become known to the travel agent if they'd planned to commit criminal acts no?
 
Redsand187
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:47 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:09 pm

Quoting ideekay (Reply 185):

I would find it hard to believe that they would have been able to collect every device on the plane. Surely one person would have forgotten a device or purposely withheld it.

While anything is possible at this point, I don't think it is likely. One thing is for sure is that the plane isn't where the evidence we have shows it should be.

I know some private jets carry handheld radios for emergencies where they lose radio contact. Does an airliner? I find it hard to believe the plane would have made a gentle landing from 35000ft with no attempts of contact or witnesses somewhere.
 
ElectricZ
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:52 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:11 pm

I've scanned through many of these threads but haven't seen it discussed... What are the ocean currents like near/around the last point of contact? It's relatively very shallow water. It seems unlikely that the debris could have drifted that far on its own based on the sighting near HCM City, but could the ocean currents/tides/prevailing winds explain the difference? Or is the debris field actually just a floating garbage field?
 
poolkeeper
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:29 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:12 pm

Quoting fraapproach (Reply 194):

That a phone is ringing does not mean that the call is routed through. The ring signal is generated by the network and not the phone.
If a mobile phone is one then you can estimate its position with an accuracy of a few km in the worst case, you don't need to make any calls.
In the reported case I understand that the calls are made from China which means that the recipients have been roaming in Malaysia. Very common that you can get a ring signal during the paging process, everything is about how the network is configured with timeouts etc.

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