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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:12 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 191):
Why would an Iranian want to bomb down a Malaysian airliner?


Or a Chinese one, for the sake of argument.

It really seems to me that one or more countries does have more information, whether it be radio transmissions or radar data, and has decided not to share it yet for some reason. Given the number of competing territorial claims between Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand, China and also the US interest in the region, I find it hard to believe that the airplane truly "disappeared without a trace". There must be all sorts of surveillance going on all the time.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:18 pm

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/how-c...n-jet-disappear-ocean-its-not-hard

Azharuddin said the search includes northern parts of the Malacca Strait, on the opposite side of the Malay Peninsula and far west of the plane's last known location. Azharuddin would not explain why crews were searching there, saying, "There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't."
 
Ideekay
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:21 pm

Quoting Redsand187 (Reply 197):
While anything is possible at this point, I don't think it is likely. One thing is for sure is that the plane isn't where the evidence we have shows it should be.

Thats exactly what I mean, what if this a false path? Im really thinking that the plane is not in that area where they are currently searching..
 
aftgaffe
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:24 pm

The WSJ is reporting that the latest debris sighting (the sighting by airliners flying off the east coast of Vietnam) is not from MH 370. http://stream.wsj.com/story/malaysia...75558/?cb=logged0.9067711639218032
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:26 pm

Quoting ideekay (Reply 202):
Thats exactly what I mean, what if this a false path? Im really thinking that the plane is not in that area where they are currently searching..

well its not on the surface where they're looking. it wither means everything is staying on the seafloor, or it is somewhere else. since there is no large debris field, the FBI investigator of TWA 800 has concluded there was no mid-air disintegration or explosion.

[Edited 2014-03-10 13:26:46]
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lnglive1011yyz
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:26 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 201):
Azharuddin said the search includes northern parts of the Malacca Strait, on the opposite side of the Malay Peninsula and far west of the plane's last known location. Azharuddin would not explain why crews were searching there, saying, "There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't."

That certainly is a huge development but not surprising.

Back-channel communications happen without the media / us av-enthusiasts knowing sometimes...

It could be a context thing - he might just be indicating that he has no reason as to why it's occurring...?

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FoxBravo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:27 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 201):
Azharuddin would not explain why crews were searching there, saying, "There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't."

Exactly. I strongly suspect that there is some radar or other data, which hasn't been fully divulged for one reason or another, indicating that the aircraft turned and continued to fly in that direction. Otherwise it would be pretty random to start a search so far from the last known location of the aircraft.
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aftgaffe
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:29 pm

Quoting ElectricZ (Reply 198):
I've scanned through many of these threads but haven't seen it discussed... What are the ocean currents like near/around the last point of contact? It's relatively very shallow water. It seems unlikely that the debris could have drifted that far on its own based on the sighting near HCM City, but could the ocean currents/tides/prevailing winds explain the difference? Or is the debris field actually just a floating garbage field?

I saw this on twitter about the currents, for whatever that's worth: https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/443068603424702464/photo/1
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:38 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...sia-airlines-idUSBREA291D520140310

Just caught this - No Automated Messages from Missing Boeing Jet : Sources

1011yyz
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aircatalonia
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:41 pm

Can anyone confirm this information?

- 5 bags or more removed from the hold
- Off chocks: 16:41
- STD: 16:35

Doesn't this sound unusually fast? I mean:

- Find which bag belongs to which container
- Offload containers
- Find bags and take them out
- Load containers again

And only 6 minutes late?
 
mark2fly1034
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:43 pm

Ok so lets say there was a total loss of electrical power which would explain why ACARS,CPDCL,COMMs,Trasponder... etc was off, and they also had hypoxia, if the plane was trimmed correctly the plane would just fly on its own till fuel ran out but that is saying it flew in a straight line and it should of come back into radar. but if it was in a bank like FR shows of a heading of 24-40 now it could fly circles or be flown way off course and explain why they have not found it.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:45 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 201):
Azharuddin would not explain why crews were searching there, saying, "There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't."

   Hmm... that's different to what was said earlier.   
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:45 pm

Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 209):

Perhaps the bags were never loaded?
 
art
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:45 pm

Regarding the 2 suspects using stolen being responsible for bringing the aircraft down theory, why travel on a stolen passport which might be detected at passport control?
 
JimJupiter
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:46 pm

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 208):

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...sia-airlines-idUSBREA291D520140310

Just caught this - No Automated Messages from Missing Boeing Jet : Sources
Quote:
The Boeing 777-200ER is equipped with a maintenance computer capable of talking to the ground automatically through short messages known as ACARS.

"There were no signals from ACARS from the time the aircraft disappeared," a source involved in the investigations said.

So, this an indication that the aircraft should be more or less in the area of its last reported position, right?

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 201):
Azharuddin would not explain why crews were searching there, saying, "There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't.

Which roughly translates to: We still have no idea.
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rcair1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:46 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 179):
sounds possible that the pilots were drifting in and out of consciousness.

This would not cause the a/c to stop sending transponder signals.

Quoting anstar (Reply 182):
I think most airlines have procedures in place to have communications with the flight crew at regular intervals to prevent this sort of thing happening again.

Irrelevant - the a/c would not stop sending transponder signals.

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 189):
phones would be ringing from their family members calling them

The ringing phones theory is a distraction. The cellular network can return several rings to the "caller" for a phone that is off or not in contact.

You do NOT need to ring a cellular phone to identify if it is on the network. They 'check in' with the network regularly.

So - if passengers cell phones were on and in contact with the network - we would know and we would have a tower location.

----
Hypoxia theories - unless you think a hypoxic crew would turn off the transponder(s) (unlikely) - then hypoxia of the crew would NOT cause loss of the transponder signals.

Again - we know very little.
We do know
- The a/c is missing. We don't even know if it crashed, ditches or landed. All we know is it would have run out of fuel long ago.
- We can surmise that, because the transponders went off line that one off 2 things happened
- They were turned off
- They failed due to a failure of the transponders or the a/c systems that power them.

---
One definition:
Many may not know what "Secondary Radar" really means.

There are 2 types of radar returns possible.
- Primary. This is the 'traditional' type of military detection radar and what stealth a/c are intended to defeat. A radio signal is sent from the transmitter, some part of the signal reflects back from an aircraft and is picked up by a receiver (co-located or near the transmitter). The return is the "primary return." The system uses time of flight information to identify a distance and direction.
Note: All primary radar can tell you is "the a/c is on this bearing (including both a horizontal and vertical component) and is this far away."
Add multiple returns over time and you can measure and changes in bearing and distance.
Add multiple transmitter/receiver pairs and you can start to triangulate better data.
Back in the "day" primary radar was used for ATC in local areas - to day it is rarely used.
For primary radar to be effective over a distance, it takes a lot of power - smokin' amount of power. The Aegis system can run up to 6 Megawatts. Do not stand in front of it - you will be cooked....

- Secondary: Secondary radar does not depend on the primary return - it depends on the fact that when the aircraft 'sees" the interrogating beam - it responds (transmits) with a signal from the transponder. Depending on what class transponder, more information will be sent. The most basic ones will return the assigned transponder code. The most sophisticated will return GPS location, flight information, etc.
Note: If the transponder fails or is turned off - secondary radar is ineffective.
Basically, it is sending out a directional signal that says "tell me about yourself" and the airplane returns with "here I am."
If the transponder fails to respond - secondary systems 'may' display a primary return - but 'may' is key.

Essentially - secondary radar is not radar in the sense of the term "RAdio Detection And Ranging". It is more like a 'directional radio conversation".

---
For MH370, secondary or transponder signals were lost. This is what "loosing contact with the a/c..." means. If there were no primary radar systems looking at it - then it would simply "disappear". Note - I believe modern ATC systems will continue to show a predicted track and information for a time - I don't know how long (minutes or seconds I would expect). This prevents the a/c from appearing and disappearing all the time due to momentary signal loss.

So - fro MH370 - either the transponders failed, or were turned off.
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flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:47 pm

Quoting indcwby (Reply 188):
And reports that an Iranian purchasing both tickets doesn't set off any bells?

Expats sometimes have strange jobs. I know a Swissman in Spain who makes a living selling mobile phone contracts.

As an Iranian, he might have good contacts to the Persian/Arabian region, and so this travel agency sells tickets often through him, and he might get some kickbacks.

And as it has been mentioned before, being a regular customer for a travel agency wouldn't help if you're up to terrorism or hijacking.


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LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:48 pm

Quoting Mark2fly1034 (Reply 210):

That's a lot of failure. 2 engine gens, 2 backup gens, APU, battery, RAT.
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:52 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 217):
That's a lot of failure. 2 engine gens, 2 backup gens, APU, battery, RAT.

or a fire in the EE bay?
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anstar
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:52 pm

So given the Malaysians are now searching in West Malaysia and say the plane may have turned around... what are the possibilities the planes did start to turn due to say a hijacking and that it was shot down by a government and said governments arent sharing the information? Ok here I go on conspiracy theories!
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:52 pm

Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 209):

Could simply have been 5 connecting bags where there was some doubt if the pax would make the connection,
and therefore were held back until the last minute.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:53 pm

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 218):

Most likely wouldn't be sudden.
 
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lugie
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:54 pm

Quoting art (Reply 213):
Regarding the 2 suspects using stolen being responsible for bringing the aircraft down theory, why travel on a stolen passport which might be detected at passport control?

Maybe because they were already brought into connection with terrorist activities beforehand and their names are on no-fly lists so the chance to get aboard with their actual names is close to zero while there obviously is a chance of booking flights and boarding an airplane with stolen passports.
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indcwby
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:55 pm

Quoting virgin744 (Reply 196):
Apparently he had been there previously and was known to the travel agent. Seems peculiar that someone would become known to the travel agent if they'd planned to commit criminal acts no?

Well, based on media reports... (http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/10/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-mystery-passengers/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

"On Monday, Thai police said the tickets had been purchased by an Iranian man for two friends he said wanted to go home to Europe."

"Malaysia's civil aviation chief, Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, revealed Monday that authorities have reviewed security footage of the men passing through Kuala Lumpur's airport, and they are not "Asian looking men." At least one of them appeared to be black, Rahman said."

So two friends traveling with stolen documents. Is the Iranian on this as accomplice because he knew of those passports being stolen. I'll agree that it could be mere coincidence. But this is a situation that could be anything.

"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains – however improbable – must be the truth."
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klebert
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:56 pm

If these questions have been answered before my apologies, but this thread is simply too large to go through all of it, I scanned only the last couple of hours and was unable to find an answer...
a) is it truly possible for cockpit personnel (pilot or otherwise) to turn off all outgoing communication originating from the aircraft... transponder, etc. but thinking especially of the AF447 automated transmissions directly to AF Paris hq.
b) how low would have an aircraft to sink and fly in a controlled manner in order to avoid ATC radar (I do not think it is possible to avoid chance encounters with other radar or visuals)

I agree that there is most certainly a difference between what is known publicly and what is known to authorities. Unfortunately, putting 2+2 together as far as a terrorism use case is concerned (Iran vs. China, Malaysia and no public announcement... sorry, that does not add up at all), as well as a mid-air explosion en-route without a debris field nearby - personally I am more and more drawn to a comparison with MS990 and the Silk Air 185 incidents. Both of which were solved by finding wreckage and recorders (especially MS990)... hence my questions... could a person in the cockpit fly a 777 aircraft somewhere out to sea undetected in the hope to avoid discovery of black boxes (which the cockpit cannot disable)?
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:00 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 221):
Most likely wouldn't be sudden.

I was thinking that a fire in the EE bay might be the answer.

It is below the cockpit, it could incapacitate the pilots with fumes, distract the pilots with firefighting. you would have pilots sitting on the literal hot seat,

finally, you have some amount of oxygen passing through that area to feed the fire, there are ignition sources, and fires have occurred in that area before- on a 777.
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gatechae
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:01 pm

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 190):
If the fuselage remained intact after impact with the sea, it would leave very little debris.

If the plane did in fact crash into the gulf of Thailand at a high rate of speed, wouldn't the relatively narrow depth (average depth at 80m, with a 777 length being 64m) cause it to break up upon impact with the sea floor (allowing debris to float to the surface)?
 
damirc
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:01 pm

Guys the phones ringing was explained before, and can confirm since I occasionally have to deal with SIP trunks and the like ^^.

The ringing tone is not generated by the phone but by the network. In most cases it is spoofed after a certain timeout (so the user has some aural feedback a connection is being made), and after another timeout this ringing turns into whatever action is returned by the carrier (voicemail, out of range message etc.) in case a connection can not be made.

D.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting klebert (Reply 224):
could a person in the cockpit fly a 777 aircraft somewhere out to sea undetected in the hope to avoid discovery of black boxes (which the cockpit cannot disable)?

If it was a suicide mission, why would you care? If you are going to kill yourself and take everyone with you, there is no point in hiding the fact.
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flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:03 pm

Quoting indcwby (Reply 223):
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains – however improbable – must be the truth."

But you're pretty near-sighted for such a bold statement.

Isn't it possible that the Iranian knew that the passports were stolen, but that he also knew that stolen passports are not a rare event in that region? For example, Malaysians, Indians, Indonesians and Filipinos need a second (stolen) passport in case theirs get taken away while working in the United Arab Emirates.

As a extortion method used by employers, their passports are regularly taken away.

So why should he connect his "customers" with any type of criminality, apart from using "false" documents?


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deltacto
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:07 pm

Quoting indcwby (Reply 223):

"Malaysia's civil aviation chief, Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, revealed Monday that authorities have reviewed security footage of the men passing through Kuala Lumpur's airport, and they are not "Asian looking men.

I have read all the threads, but I may have missed a few posts, so I apologize if this has been discussed;

How can someone determine which passenger is which from watching the surveillance videos?
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:07 pm

Quoting gatechae (Reply 226):
If the plane did in fact crash into the gulf of Thailand at a high rate of speed, wouldn't the relatively narrow depth (average depth at 80m, with a 777 length being 64m) cause it to break up upon impact with the sea floor (allowing debris to float to the surface)?

not if the airplane crashed at a shallow angle- like a ditching angle. If no one was at the controls and the CG stayed consistent, then the airplane would fly, (up, down or level) at an airspeed around the cruise airspeed (IAS). so it could glide down and not crash at a high rate of speed.
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rcair1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting klebert (Reply 224):
a) is it truly possible for cockpit personnel (pilot or otherwise) to turn off all outgoing communication originating from the aircraft... transponder, etc. but thinking especially of the AF447 automated transmissions directly to AF Paris hq.

Yes. The crew can turn off everything - and must be able to isolate any electrical component for fire protection reasons.

Quoting klebert (Reply 224):
b) how low would have an aircraft to sink and fly in a controlled manner in order to avoid ATC radar (I do not think it is possible to avoid chance encounters with other radar or visuals)

Remember - most ATC is secondary radar and has very little primary return capability. That said - it would take some real planning, good understanding of where radar installations are and good navigation to maximize the possibilities of avoiding it.

However, as you said - that does not apply for primary radar systems - primarily military - that may be operating.

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 214):
So, this an indication that the aircraft should be more or less in the area of its last reported position, right?

No - just that whatever took out the transponders and other comm also took out the ACARS.
One can imagine - and it is just imagination right now - two scenarios.
- Purposeful disabling of comms and diversion (read hijacking)
- Catastrophic electrical failure failure that took out all comms, but left the a/c flying followed by attempts by the crew to fly to a safe place to land. In the blind, at night, with no navs perhaps?

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 201):
"There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't."

This sounds like secret military radar running that caught something. The existence and detail of it may not be revealed, but the 'data', as in the flight track may be.
rcair1
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 225):
I was thinking that a fire in the EE bay might be the answer.

It might be, but it would have to have been quick to blaze up.

They disappear after only about 40 minutes with no apparent deviations or altitude changes until the very last minute.

They reach cruise apparently uneventfully as well.

What is burning down there that doesn't show up in a malfunction or a warning at all?
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:10 pm

Quoting gatechae (Reply 226):
If the plane did in fact crash into the gulf of Thailand at a high rate of speed, wouldn't the relatively narrow depth (average depth at 80m, with a 777 length being 64m) cause it to break up upon impact with the sea floor (allowing debris to float to the surface)?

I've used that example time and time again since MH370 disappeared, however when SR 111 hit the sea near Halifax in a 20 degrees nose down attitude and 110 degrees bank, where the depth is roughly 55m, the aircraft literally exploded as it came at a speed of about 300 knots. Investigators determined that to turn a whole airliner and everything on board into what they found the force must have been of at least 350g. The majority of the debris were found on the sea floor in a not so large area.

[Edited 2014-03-10 14:11:07]
 
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Spacepope
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:10 pm

Quoting gatechae (Reply 226):
If the plane did in fact crash into the gulf of Thailand at a high rate of speed, wouldn't the relatively narrow depth (average depth at 80m, with a 777 length being 64m) cause it to break up upon impact with the sea floor (allowing debris to float to the surface)?

It is doubtful the plane would have reached the sea floor with the initial impact, no matter what angle it hit the surface.
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JimJupiter
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:11 pm

Quoting deltacto (Reply 230):
How can someone determine which passenger is which from watching the surveillance videos?

They might take footage from the boarding procedure, then substract all the properly identified passengers (with the help of families etc.)?
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flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:11 pm

Quoting deltacto (Reply 230):
How can someone determine which passenger is which from watching the surveillance videos?

1. The government probably has all passport photos on file.
2. Next of kin can provide photographs.


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krje1980
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:12 pm

I have been lurking at these forums for many years, but do not post much. However, I thought I'd give my input as to what I think might have happened with MH370.

Like many others here, I think the whole "stolen passports" issue is a red herring, and I do not believe that this was an act of terrorism/hijacking.

What is interesting to me, though, is the fact that no distress call was sent from the cockpit, and no radars picked up the plane once it disappeared (which is why I also strongly doubt that hypoxia occurred). This is a strong indication, as countless people have pointed out in these threads, that whatever happened must have happened very fast. But if the plane exploded mid-air, then it is extremely strange that no debris has been found as of yet.

Could it therefore be possible that a very sudden mechanical failure/catastrophic event happened that knocked the pilots unconscious pretty much immediately (hence why no distress call)? Then perhaps the plane plummeted down and hit the ocean in such a way that massive disintegration occurred (as in SR111)? This could also explain why it has been difficult to locate debris.

I think this is more plausible than many of the other far-out scenarios suggested. "Plausible" admittedly being a relative term in this discussion.
 
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BaconButty
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:42 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:13 pm

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 214):
Which roughly translates to: We still have no idea.

No it doesn't. They are clearly working on two hypothesis. The first is that the aircraft started descending at the last known position, and they've now extended that search. The second is that the aircraft headed back the way it came to the Malacca Strait then north west. What prompts them to consider this is presumably what they can't tell us. I can only assume it's either intelligence or military led.


[Edited 2014-03-10 14:15:39]
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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pvjin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:14 pm

If whatever happened was indeed bad enough to disable ACARS I really wonder if FDR / CVR would have stayed operational... Can those be manually switched off on a 777? I remember how in case of Silk Air 185 they were switched off before the pilot sent the aircraft into a dive, at least based on official explanation.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
345tas
Posts: 183
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:14 pm

"Things I can tell you and things I can't tell you".

Judging by the events of the past few days, I'd guess there are things they can't tell us because they have no idea what's going on, as opposed to knowing stuff that can't be disclosed.

Quoting isn't working for me but thanks a lot to the guy who explained very well about the diff between primary and secondary radar.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:15 pm

Quoting klebert (Reply 224):
in the hope to avoid discovery of black boxes (which the cockpit cannot disable)

I believe the CVR (and possibly FDR) can be shut off by pulling a breaker on the flight deck. This has been used as support for suicide theories in the past.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
A320FlyGuy
Posts: 280
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:16 pm

Quoting CptHaddock (Reply 153):
Something's ringing in my head: HYPOXIA.

I was thinking the same thing...but that begs the question...shouldn't an ACARS message have been generated? When an aircraft like the 777 needs a pressurization system to sustain the lives of it's passengers, any hypoxia situation should have sent out an ACARS warning. At the very least,an EICAS message in the cockpit would have alerted the crew to any sort of pressurization falure.

I was surprised to learn that the "enhanced" ACARS reporting that some aircraft have wasn't specified for this 777....I would have thought that a long range aircraft would have the more detailed ACARS reporting capability as standard...but I guess everything has a price tag and Malaysian decided against this.
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indcwby
Posts: 332
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:16 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 229):
But you're pretty near-sighted for such a bold statement.

But in a situation like this, and if it is determined that terrorism is the result of this case, then he could/would easily become a scapegoat for providing a way on board the flight. Again, key word is if those stolen passports played a role at all.
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aircatalonia
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:16 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 220):
Could simply have been 5 connecting bags where there was some doubt if the pax would make the connection,
and therefore were held back until the last minute.

The fact that they are being investigated suggests to me that there isn't a straightforward explanation.
 
802flyguy
Posts: 267
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:17 pm

Patrick Smith on what is known so far: http://www.askthepilot.com/malaysia-airlines-flight-370/
 
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flylku
Posts: 597
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:18 pm

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 53):

Primary radar, in theory, should show the location and path of a flying object regardless of whether it has a transponder--it's simply radio waves that bounce off a target and return. It just takes a bit more analysis.

Indeed. I was flying a Tri-Pacer (fabric and steel tubing, single engine) in 2000 over West Virginia when the transponder failed. We turned it off and asked Washington Center for flight following on the primary radar return and they were able to track us. I have to believe that even after an in flight breakup (if there was one) that the pieces of the wreckage would be significantly more reflective than our little fabric and steel tube airplane.
...are we there yet?
 
flyboy_se
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:20 pm

Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 209):
Can anyone confirm this information?

- 5 bags or more removed from the hold
- Off chocks: 16:41
- STD: 16:35

Doesn't this sound unusually fast? I mean:

- Find which bag belongs to which container
- Offload containers
- Find bags and take them out
- Load containers again

And only 6 minutes late?

Depending on the airline, gate noshow passengers should not cause a delay. I know all airlines have their own procedures. At my airline, -20 minutes before STD the dispatcher starts looking on the baggage reconsiliation system where the bags are loaded. -10 minutes before STD gate is closed for those passengers and bags are offloaded. If you know the location it is fairly quick. The loadsheet is printed, and cabin doors are closed. Once the bags are offloaded the hold is closed and aircraft can push.
I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
 
StarAC17
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:21 pm

Quoting Mark2fly1034 (Reply 210):
Ok so lets say there was a total loss of electrical power which would explain why ACARS,CPDCL,COMMs,Trasponder... etc was off, and they also had hypoxia, if the plane was trimmed correctly the plane would just fly on its own till fuel ran out but that is saying it flew in a straight line and it should of come back into radar. but if it was in a bank like FR shows of a heading of 24-40 now it could fly circles or be flown way off course and explain why they have not found it.

It would be seen on radar going in circles I presume.

In the Helios crash in 2005 the passengers and crew were incapacitated but fighter jets were scrambled to meet the plane.

Quoting klebert (Reply 224):
a) is it truly possible for cockpit personnel (pilot or otherwise) to turn off all outgoing communication originating from the aircraft... transponder, etc. but thinking especially of the AF447 automated transmissions directly to AF Paris hq.

From Reply 208, no ACARS messages were sent.

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 208):
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...sia-airlines-idUSBREA291D520140310

Just caught this - No Automated Messages from Missing Boeing Jet : Sources

1011yyz
Quoting klebert (Reply 224):
b) how low would have an aircraft to sink and fly in a controlled manner in order to avoid ATC radar (I do not think it is possible to avoid chance encounters with other radar or visuals)

From some of the posts I have seen the plane would have to fly under 1000ft. If they had turned off all lights on the plane at night any boat or ship on the sea nearby would hear it but it interesting to note at that exact time of the loss of radar there was no moonlight so a ship would not be able to see anything easily.

This is the day and night world map for the time of the crash and the moon is directly overhead where the white dot is.

http://www.timeanddate.com/scripts/sunmap.php?iso=20140307T1640
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