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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:04 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 50):
now how about the co-pilot?
Son of a bigwig in government, and seems to have a history of breaking the rules.

He was 27 with less than 3000 hours.
 
aftgaffe
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:05 pm

Two thoughts to add to the mix.

Hypoxia alone would not explain the loss of the transponder and ACARS but maybe a fire or electrical issue could both cause the electronics to fail and cause depressurization, thereby resulting in a ghost plane with incapacitated pilots.

Even so, however, the primary radar information being shared with the public indicates that the plane went down before it ran out of fuel (i.e., unlike Helios 552). What could cause that?

Perhaps:

1) the fire or electrical issue eventually overcome the plane's ability to fly
2) the plane was flying on auto prior to the incapacitation of the pilots but auto subsequently disengaged (because of an electrical issue, severe turbulence, etc.)
3) the plane was not on auto prior to the incapacitation of the pilots but was properly trimmed and so stable flight occurred until it didn't, again without fuel starvation.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:05 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 37):
no information is better than incorrect information.

Right. But if they have no good information they should be unambiguously saying so.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 37):
their primary mission is not to sate the general publics appetite for information.

The issue isn't with keeping the general public happy. It's with the survivors of the presumed victims. The Malay authorities need to respond authoritatively to all these rumors about the plane maybe going here or maybe going there. If they're just rumors the authorities need to say that publically.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:08 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 53):
He was 27 with less than 3000 hours.

And new to the 777.
 
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zeke
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:10 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 20):
Single engine drift-down is not a given value. It depends on the type of aircraft and most particularly on the weight. Methinks zeke looked at an actual table to get his value.

I did not look any value up, a heavy 772 will drift down to around FL180, a light one to FL320. I do not know the weight at the time, so I cannot provide any more detail.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
michi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:11 pm

I forgot to add, that a misunderstanding or a bad translation might have been at work when translating the military spokesperson.

So flying at 3000ft in a controlled manner suggests foul play by someone. And it looks controlled to me! Transponder off, turns, descent, stabilization after descent. Maybe a climb even, because the grid altitudes overhead Malaysia are higher than 3000ft between Kotha Baru and Kedah.
Flying at 3000ft not to be detected by radar sounds like a plan to fly somewhere, not to crash or commit suicide.

Still, where is the plane?

And I am not thinking in terms of future movie stuff!


edit: spelling, additional explanation

[Edited 2014-03-11 08:12:17]

[Edited 2014-03-11 08:21:13]
 
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neutrino
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:11 pm

The hunt for flight MH370
Day 4 update:

TUESDAY, MARCH 11

-- Chinese state media report that Beijing is deploying as many as 10 satellites in the hope of finding the jet.

-- The search area now includes land on the Malaysian peninsula itself, the waters off its west coast, and an area to the north of Indonesia's Sumatra island -- all far removed from the flight's scheduled route.

-- Vietnam asks fishing boats off its southern coast -- where the flight dropped off radar -- for help in the effort, but says it now holds "little hope of a positive outcome".

-- Interpol names the two men travelling on stolen passports as Iranians Delavar Seyed Mohammad Reza, aged 29, and Pouri Nour Mohammadi, 18. Malaysian officials say they believe the pair are illegal immigrants and that people-smuggling is the likeliest explanation for the identity fraud.

-- Malaysian police say they are focusing on theories including a hijacking, sabotage or psychological problems among passengers or crew, but stress there is still no evidence to support any scenario.

-- Interpol says the pair's identities suggest the plane's disappearance is not likely to have been caused by a terrorist attack.

- AFP/al


Read the full timeline here:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...timeline-the-hunt-for/1029108.html
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
klebert
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:12 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 50):
The pilot had a good reputation... now how about the co-pilot?Son of a bigwig in government, and seems to have a history of breaking the rules.


Could you please source the information on the co-pilot? I have not read that anywhere.
 
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zeke
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:12 pm

Quoting michi (Reply 48):
I am checking minimum altitudes for malaysia right now.

No need, you would hit terrain at 3000'.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:14 pm

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 54):
Even so, however, the primary radar information being shared with the public indicates that the plane went down before it ran out of fuel

They just lost it from radar. Might have just gone out of range of the station.

If they saw it go down on the military radar, the search area would not be so large, imo.

Curiously, we had very early reports from Chinese radar that said it made a steep descent, but I don't recall if a location was given.

"On Mar 8th 2014 aviation sources in China reported that radar data suggest a steep and sudden descent of the aircraft, during which the track of the aircraft changed from 024 degrees to 333 degrees."
 
richierich
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:15 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 49):
The pilot had a good reputation... now how about the co-pilot?
Son of a bigwig in government, and seems to have a history of breaking the rules.
Could we have another AF447 or MS990 or both here?

Interesting - (and I apologize if this was discussed in the previous 3000+ posts, I didnt read all of them!) - the FO was mentioned on CNN last night as he was the FO when Richard Quest and his team flew MH a year or so ago. To paraphrase Quest, he said it was eerie to think that the same FO who flew them last year (and appeared on the video,) and made a flawless landing, was the same one who was now missing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJdWeTQOP20

Life is fragile. (Edited: added link to video)

[Edited 2014-03-11 08:19:20]
None shall pass!!!!
 
345tas
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:15 pm

I hope this question won't betray my total lack of knowledge of cockpit hardware, but according to FR24 playback, a number of flights would have been flying along the Straits at *roughly* the time that MH370 was apparently there.
They include: THA483, TGW2657, SIA68, UAE343, UAE405, KLM836.

So my question (don't laugh) is what sort of capacities would these aircraft have to see the other aircraft in their vicinity (if we assume that MH370 was flying quite a bit lower than them, ruling out a physical sighting by a pilot)? And if the data is recorded and thus could be checked?
 
ASA
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:15 pm

Quoting michi (Reply 57):

I forgot to add, that a misunderstanding or a bad translation was at work when translating the military spokesperson.

So flying at 3000ft in a controlled manner suggest foul play by someone. And it looks controlled to me! Transponder off, turns, descent, stabilization after descent. Maybe a climb even, because the grid altitudes overhead Malaysia are higher than 3000ft between Kotha Baru and Kedah.
Flying at 3000ft not to be detected by radar sounds like a plan to fly somewhere, not to crash or commit suicide.

Still, where is the plane?

great summary of the situation ...

once again ... this has Flight 714 written all over it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_714    
 
EI747SYDNEY
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:16 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Thread starter):
Regards and thanks so much for your co-operation,

SA7700

Well said!!

     
''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
 
liquidair
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:16 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 50):

I couldn't agree more... but this situation is getting incredibly difficult to decipher.... and that would lead to this sort of speculation. Is it that hard to imagine a crew turning to head back home and then losing conciousness?

I have no idea what happened... i'm sure you do though- you always do and you seem to be scarily right all the time!
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
texl1649
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:17 pm

Hypoxia makes very little sense. There's no history of such an incident in 777 commercial service to date and all kinds of warnings/illogical to expect flipping transponders off etc if the crew were alerted to it.

I agree that a human agency of some sort was required to fly this bird out toward the Indian ocean, after a seemingly normal first hour of flight. At a fairly normal cruise altitude, and under control, whilst evading detection with zero communication. It was not at any point on a "normal" route back to kuala lumpur. Less than 10% of commercial airline flight accidents happen while in cruise.

Everything else is conjecture/theory.

"It's actually beyond perplexing," said Mark Weiss, civil aviation lead at defense consulting firm The Spectrum Group. "I did fly the Boeing 777.... I am very familiar with the aircraft, and being familiar with the aircraft I am very uncomfortable, that airplane just doesn't fall out of the sky."
 
 
virgin744
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:18 pm

Quoting klebert (Reply 14):
the Malaysian authorities seem either clueless or have a problem with properly communicating what they are doing - same as the comment during their press conference regarding the Italian soccer player yesterday.

that was shocking!!!!!!!
 
vnangia
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:19 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 47):
To me that is utterly ridiculous. If everyone is incapacitated, they wouldn't turn that way... and primary radars in at least 2 countries would have picked them up...

Nicobar also has an Indian naval installation with OTH radar. Further out, Sri Lanka has excellent radar, Diego Garcia has OTH radar. Anything further south would have been seen by Indonesian radar. I'm seriously starting to think wormhole at this stage.

What I'm also confused about is why they aren't looking along the projected flight plan out beyond Vietnam - if the crew was incapacitated by hypoxia, surely the AP would keep flying the plane along the preloaded flight plan?
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:19 pm

Quoting Owleye (Reply 40):
When an airliner suddenly changes route isn't it the task of the air force to scramble and to intercept the plane to check what is happening?

That's assuming that everyone is watching and paying attention to what is going on - and, you don't just scramble military jets so willy-nilly.

Keep in mind, this plane was destined for Beijing, and was either already out of out of Malaysian airspace or very close to transitioning over to Vietnam ATC control. It was also the middle of the night, and we're giving the benefit of the doubt that people were being diligent in their jobs. We know that human factors usually come into play somewhere in events like these.

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that it took them 2 hours to notify anyone that the plane had 'gone missing'. I'm concerned that it took that long to notify anyone, unless there was a lot of communication between parties during that time period. If a plane dropped off the radar and stopped communicating, I would think that it would be a top-priority situation.

Regardless of the outcome, these things rarely ever boil down to 1 particular 'failure' or 'item' that causes the incident. We're likely looking at a chain of events. We have the departure, climb, top of climb, a report of a turn in an unexpected spot, and now a missing aircraft.

There is a LOT of missing 'data' between the top of climb, and where we are today.

One last thing I'd like to say - people are criticizing the Malaysian Gov't, and rightfully so, as their explanations and press conferences have been less-than-stellar. However, we need to remember a few things - how often has malaysia come across a scenario such as this? How many times have they had to respond to such a situation as the one we're facing?

Not every country has polished policies and procedures and openness as other countries. We have become accustomed to the usual NTSB, TSB (Canada), AAIB (Britain), etc etc, that have decades and decades of data, response, and communicative procedures that are fairly polished - so, we need to be cognizant of that.

1011yyz
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drmlnr1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:20 pm

This is a very intriguing and strange case. My fiancé thinks if they had landed, that all passengers would have contacted their loved ones by now
Flying is relaxing!
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:22 pm

Quoting drmlnr1 (Reply 70):
This is a very intriguing and strange case. My fiancé thinks if they had landed, that all passengers would have contacted their loved ones by now

If they flew low over Malaysia I'd expect some cell communications to have gotten through...
 
michi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:22 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 58):
No need, you would hit terrain at 3000'.

Thanks, I was faster than you   See my reply 55.
 
klebert
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:26 pm

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 66):
Something like this? http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world....html

Thank you. Not sure the information in the article helps much but yes, in general I would like to know more about the pilots as I am still convinced more and more the solution to this can be found there and not in the 777, terrorism, etc.
 
slinky09
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:27 pm

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 53):
Perhaps:

Perhaps (and since there's nothing to back this up, so another amount of speculation) an unidentified passenger jet, with zero comms, headed into a resricted area and was taken down? It wouldn't explain how it got there unless it was a hijacking for some terrorist purpose, but might explain something about the inferences that the military know things (that have been shared and have not).

Quoting michi (Reply 48):
- low flying aircraft at the east coast of malaysia

I think someone said that peaks across central Malaysia reached 2,000m, so at that height it's likely to have hit a mountain.
 
flyaas80
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:28 pm

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 66):
Something like this? http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world...ed-on-previous-flight-9183812.html

That is a very troubling story, and speaks to a dangerous (lack of) safety and security culture. I highly doubt this was a one-time occurrence.
The only way to fly is by the seat of your pants...
 
mandala499
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:30 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 50):
He was 27 with less than 3000 hours.
Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 53):
And new to the 777.

So just transitioned from the 737, and most likely the 737-400 not the -800.

Quoting klebert (Reply 57):
Could you please source the information on the co-pilot? I have not read that anywhere.

I was already in contact with several of the MH 777 crew that morning to see if any of them were onboard... they weren't... but later, some started giving me hints on the co-pilot... I was giving it the benefit of the doubt until I saw...
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article/88...-questions-about-cockpit-behaviour
Now a son of a bigwig, behaving like this while on duty?

I've seen/heard of cases such as these, "sons of bigwigs in the right seat", most of the time they are a CRM nightmare... but we don't know about this guy apart from what's been shown.

Now wasnt AF447 a simple problem turned into a catastrophe thanks to a CRM nightmare occuring?

If you want other sources, you can't expect me to display my sources ID numbers   

Quoting liquidair (Reply 64):
and you seem to be scarily right all the time!

Yet, I always hope I am wrong when it comes to these things.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
michi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:30 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 71):
If they flew low over Malaysia I'd expect some cell communications to have gotten through...

- GSM coverage and range might be a factor.
- No cell towers in the middle of malaysia?
- Only small coastal strips with coverage.
- Fast flying plane? To fast for an initial contact between a cell an a certain cell tower?
- Also people on board not knowing where they are, because they where intentionally left in the dark? (Enroute Map off)
- No one was alarmed and realized that a cell might help?

This still does not explain where the aircraft is. But there is no flawless theory around so far.

And again, I am not trying to construct a future movie plot here, I am only trying to connect all the reports available at this time.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:30 pm

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 69):

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that it took them 2 hours to notify anyone that the plane had 'gone missing'. I'm concerned that it took that long to notify anyone, unless there was a lot of communication between parties during that time period. If a plane dropped off the radar and stopped communicating, I would think that it would be a top-priority situation.

Already explained. This happens everyday due to many factors. There is a protocol that is followed
 
theaviator380
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:30 pm

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 69):
I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that it took them 2 hours to notify anyone that the plane had 'gone missing'. I'm concerned that it took that long to notify anyone,

Absolutely correct, that's very strange and worrying. That's where I think Malaysian authority is not telling everything they know about this incident.

Something not right about this. IT doesn't take 2 hours to realize plane is missing unless people are seriously incompetent, I doubt that's the case.

Quoting 345tas (Reply 61):

I did raise this question and I was told, commercial aircraft has got only weather radar not the one which can detect planes in their vicinity. TCAS detects plane coming too close or if plane is near terrain.
 
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shamrock604
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:34 pm

Quoting FlyAAS80 (Reply 75):
That is a very troubling story, and speaks to a dangerous (lack of) safety and security culture. I highly doubt this was a one-time occurrence.

You really think this doesnt happen at the best of airlines? - Remember, there was a time when flight deck access was not as restricted, so I'm not sure it points to a lack of safety culture at all.
 
voodoo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:35 pm

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 69):
One last thing I'd like to say - people are criticizing the Malaysian Gov't, and rightfully so, as their explanations and press conferences have been less-than-stellar. However, we need to remember a few things - how often has malaysia come across a scenario such as this? How many times have they had to respond to such a situation as the one we're facing?

Hmmm we're talking about a government that applies sodomy charges to the leader of the Opposition whenever it suits it (and did so again this very week). I think we safely can say they like to over-rightously exercise control over 'unusual' situations!

[Edited 2014-03-11 08:37:01]
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
michi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 74):
I think someone said that peaks across central Malaysia reached 2,000m, so at that height it's likely to have hit a mountain.

Maybe the aircraft climbed again? Kind of terrain following in order to avoid primary radar detection?

It didn't work, but I took the military quite a while to figure it out? See reply 34:

Quoting David L (Reply 34):

The fact that they initially said there was evidence it "may" have turned back so expanded the search to include the Malacca Strait then said they were putting more focus on that area suggests to me that the evidence might not have been as obvious as some seem to think and needed some analysis. It doesn't necessarily suggest to me that someone sat and watched something they knew to be MH370 and waited before doing anything about it and yet that seems to be what some believe.

Without knowing what the evidence was, I think it's too early to criticise.
 
345tas
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 79):
I did raise this question and I was told, commercial aircraft has got only weather radar not the one which can detect planes in their vicinity. TCAS detects plane coming too close or if plane is near terrain.

Thanks!

Looking at Google Maps, there's a sort of ring of islands that stretch from northern Sumatra to the coast of Thailand. One would assume that both India and Indonesia should have primary radar capabilities on their respective territories, unless there's a gap in range between them and the aircraft could have 'slipped out'.
 
UA787DEN
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting texl1649 (Reply 65):

At this point I don't feel 777 service history has any impact on this crash. Something aboard a 777 obviously went wrong - but nobody knows what and I don't feel plane type matters. Its such a unique disappearance. Just because the 777 is safe doesn't mean its free of fault.

I feel personally that there has to be some level of human involvement and an attempt to be undetected. To what level? I don't know.
 
mpsrent
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:42 pm

If the Malaysian's tracked the aircraft to Pulau Perak, it begs asking what if anything the Indonesians saw. Polonia airport is south of this path.
 
SKAirbus
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:42 pm

Quoting FlyAAS80 (Reply 75):
That is a very troubling story, and speaks to a dangerous (lack of) safety and security culture. I highly doubt this was a one-time occurrence.

If this is the case, I think the European Union should immediately blacklist Malaysia Airlines until its standards are brought up to scratch. Of course this could be a one time-event....

However, knowing as much about Malaysia as I do, it is very racially and hierarchy driven:

The country is run by rich Malays who basically have all the power. The more money you have, the more you can get away with. This has also filtered down into companies as well: if you are related to someone in power you can pretty much get away with murder.
Base: BRU
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:42 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 78):
Already explained. This happens everyday due to many factors. There is a protocol that is followed


So is 2 hours a sufficient amount of time to wait to announce to other aviators and boats in the area when trying to determine the location of a missing airliner with 200 some odd people on board? If a plane bound for North America suddenly changed course and was not responding to communications and disappeared off radar, you'd bet your bottom dollar there would be a response...

I get what you're saying, but I have no faith that protocols on the ground at least were followed.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
timothy31388
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting FlyAAS80 (Reply 75):

This sort of thing happens in many airlines. The only reason why people don't report it is because no accidents or incidents have taken place.
TJJINDI
 
flyaas80
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 80):
You really think this doesnt happen at the best of airlines? - Remember, there was a time when flight deck access was not as restricted, so I'm not sure it points to a lack of safety culture at all.

Yes, I really do believe that this doesn't happen at the best of airlines. Call it a case of extreme ignorance, or whatever you like, this is not ok. Do we not remember Aeroflot 593? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_593

Furthermore, there is no need to rehash everything that has caused the change in culture of aviation security, but there was (and is) good reason for it. We all understand that the way we fly today is very different from how we, and flight crew, conducted ourselves prior to 9/11.
The only way to fly is by the seat of your pants...
 
CF-CPI
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:44 pm

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 79):
Absolutely correct, that's very strange and worrying. That's where I think Malaysian authority is not telling everything they know about this incident.

Something not right about this. IT doesn't take 2 hours to realize plane is missing unless people are seriously incompetent, I doubt that's the case.

Historically, there have been ATC frequencies as well as 'company' frequencies, the latter of which is designed to allow the cockpit to contact company personnel for questions regarding operations or maintenance. Is is customary for the cockpit to contact the company with any regularity during normal ops? Is it likely that Malaysia Airlines was clued in to anything unusual via this channel - something they haven't revealed? This would include specific info relayed to them from the flight, or silence from the flight after a certain period of time - both of which would indicate a problem.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 69):

Well said. It appears everyone has very high expectation of Malaysian defense force capabilities. If I recall correctly 15+ years back they used to rent fighter jets to fly past at their independence day celebrations.

There is also a major misunderstanding about primary radar coverage on earth. Anything 50NM out from shore is generally out of radar coverage. Ships generally travel close to shore, unless they want to avoid certain countries for safety reasons.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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shamrock604
Posts: 2197
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:48 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 86):
If this is the case, I think the European Union should immediately blacklist Malaysia Airlines until its standards are brought up to scratch. Of course this could be a one time-event....

I'm sorry, but that's way over the top. I'm pretty sure MAS has procedures for flight deck access, and no one can enforce their application 100% of the time.

If you think it doesnt happen at EU airlines, you are dreaming.
 
klebert
Posts: 12
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:50 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 86):
I think the European Union should immediately blacklist Malaysia Airlines until its standards are brought up to scratch

While I do not think the article rises to that level of scrutiny, or smoking or having passengers in the cockpit does... wasn't Malaysia, its airline, or the old MAS once blacklisted by the EU? Do I have this right?
Since it is a gvmt-owned airline anything that falls back on it, its culture, etc. is unfortunately something that may influence other government entities in reporting on anything they know - especially if there is no clear separation of power between gvmt branches, and I doubt that is the case in Malaysia.
 
flyaas80
Posts: 110
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:51 pm

Quoting timothy31388 (Reply 88):
This sort of thing happens in many airlines. The only reason why people don't report it is because no accidents or incidents have taken place.

How easy we forget, but these events have caused the loss of life (Aeroflot 593). I always believed that one of the cornerstones of aviation safety is that when these accidents and incidents do occur, we remedy those problems so they do not reoccur, and lives are not needlessly lost. I have and will always hold flight crews in the highest regard for the responsibilities they are expected to perform. Professionalism comes hand-in-hand with those responsibilities.
The only way to fly is by the seat of your pants...
 
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pvjin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:53 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 86):
If this is the case, I think the European Union should immediately blacklist Malaysia Airlines until its standards are brought up to scratch. Of course this could be a one time-event....

I bet plenty of EU based airlines are way worse. Besides, I don't see any problem with inviting a couple of blondes to the cockpit.



Quoting FlyAAS80 (Reply 94):
How easy we forget, but these events have caused the loss of life (Aeroflot 593).

There's a big difference between inviting some people into the cockpit and actually letting one to touch the controls.


[Edited 2014-03-11 08:56:28]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
LTC8K6
Posts: 1583
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:36 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:53 pm

If this was a hijack, then the hijacker has knowledge to turn off the transponder. Does he also have knowledge to turn off the recorders?
 
uta999
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:53 pm

Could one of the crew have left the flight deck and the remaining pilot put on his Oxygen mask. Only it was faulty.

This leads to him blacking out, but attempting a turn while under hypoxia

Other crew unable to get back in for what ever reason.
Your computer just got better
 
timothy31388
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 12:14 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:54 pm

Quoting klebert (Reply 93):
wasn't Malaysia, its airline, or the old MAS once blacklisted by the EU?

MH was never blacklisted by the EU since it's inception in the 1970s. Nor was Malaysia itself.
TJJINDI
 
dc9northwest
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:55 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 92):

If you think it doesnt happen at EU airlines, you are dreaming.

100% accurate... It does.

I also don't think that paranoia is the answer. This likely has nothing to do with this incident.

This is the most puzzling incident that I remember...

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