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AR385
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 80):
My money is on the Aircraft having sunk in the Ocean intact in one piece.

That, at night, is just simply not possible. No matter how gentle a landing, it would have broken up. At the very least the engines would have been torn off along with the horizontal stabilizers. And that is assuming the plane was under professional control when ditching.

If the plane actually turned the way it seems to have done, and flew all the way across the Malaysian peninsula, what it points out to me is a technical crew member wanting to commit suicide while ensuring the wreckage is not found.
 
DALFA
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting desh (Reply 96):
With the turn around that was previously unreported - would someone with radar experience explain how an unidentified aircraft that is broadcasting no data present itself ?

Imagine that for whatever reason (miscalculation with the FOB or maybe a fuel leak) they ran out of fuel. Would this have any effect on the usage of the transponder? Or is this being fed by another power source?
 
kevinkevin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting NDiesel (Reply 93):
Well, look at it this way: If some of the passengers/crew had iPhones with iMessage capabilities, texts could still be received by their iPads and Macs that too have iMessage, left switched on at home. The sender would receive the "delivered" status the same way they would should the phone have received it. Couple this with call forwarding to other cells or landlines, it's not wonder people are led to believe the phones are still functioning and receiving signals.

iMessage and a text message are two different things. iMessage uses internet data to send and receive messages. A text message does not? So if they're able to differentiate between the two forms of message sending then maybe there's a breakthrough. True, text messages can be sent while phones are off. However, a text message being received is different. If they can prove a text message has been delivered (as long as it isn't iMessage or any other form of messaging similar to iMessage), then I think this is a breakthrough.
 
NDiesel
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:30 pm

I just read a rather interesting article by Peter Bergen on CNN. Even though we know absolutely nothing, looking to past cases shows us the most probable reasons:

Quote:
The TWA 800, EgyptAir 990 and Pan Am 103 cases represent the likely range of reasons that brought down Malaysia Airlines Flight 370: mechanical failure, pilot actions or terrorism.

CNN - When passenger jets mysteriously disappear

Delta MD-11 JFK-CDG - Upon sunrise I fell in love with aviation
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:31 pm

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 85):
From an aviator's perspective, by the time the transponder is shut off in case of fire, what would be left on? To a layman, I would think the transponder is, in fact, continually necessary in flight.

Having the transponder on is not necessary in itself. It is just nice for the ATC guys down there.  

In practice, you need the transponder in order to be visible for ATC. Certain (functional) equipment is prescribed by aviation laws, and so it goes. But if you have a good reason (like suspecting electrical malfunction, a fire... etc.), just turn it off. But it's polite (as well as necessary) to inform ATC then.

Of course there may are circumstances where you do not inform ATC, for example if you are busy fighting to stay alive in a damaged airplane.

You can switch off quite many things - for example flight computers, air conditioning, IFE, fuel pumps, ignition, the transponders, the CVR, the FDR... An engineer or a pilot can give you a much better answer. But the fact is that you can lose very much and still have a safely flying plane.

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 85):
Conversely, in case of massive electrical failure, what systems remain on, i.e. running on some other power source? Would the transponder kick off then? If so, are other avionics still available?

There are standby instruments (airspeed, compass, altimeter) that are independent of any electricity. You can run VHF and HF communication off batteries, for example.

I don't know if I understand you right, but transponders are either on or off, but they do not "kick off" in an emergency like the ELT does.

AFAIK there are the following redundandy levels:

- each engine has an electrical generator, each of which suffices for powering the aircraft. But I don't know if the 777 engines can produce electricity by windmilling.
- the batteries mainly give you power for communications.
- if the engines quit, there is the RAT (ram air turbine), that is nothing else than a wind power unit. It suffices to power hydraulics and basic instruments.
- if the RAT quits... well.


But for more precise answers, you could can google for "777 Electrical", there is a very thorough document out there on smartcockpit.com (but I don't have the time and the interest to read it myself, though).


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
345tas
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:33 pm

Quoting s5daw (Reply 99):
Sir, please read the article you just linked to. They "quoted" the guy who issued the statement above like this:

"Malaysia's Berita Harian newspaper quoted air force chief Rodzali Daud as saying the plane was last detected at 2.40 a.m. by military radar near the island of Pulau Perak at the northern end of the Strait of Malacca. It was flying about 1,000 meters lower than its previous altitude, he was quoted as saying."

As you see, he is supposedly the source. He is not. This is all made up.

You appear to have skipped to the 9th paragraph and not read the actual lede.
The first paragraph of the story:
KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - Malaysia's military believes a jetliner missing for almost four days turned and flew hundreds of kilometers to the west after it last made contact with civilian air traffic control off the country's east coast, a senior officer told Reuters on Tuesday.

The fourth paragraph:
"It changed course after Kota Bharu and took a lower altitude. It made it into the Malacca Strait," the senior military officer, who has been briefed on investigations, told Reuters.

That is an unnamed senior officer telling Reuters, not the air force chief telling Berita Harian.
 
boacvc10
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:33 pm

Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 83):
If you turn your phone off, it's impossible for you to receive calls and texts.

do you have a cell phone, and do you have voice mail service (on the account), or text message service (on the account) ? Then turn it off and then use a friends phone to call your number/text your number. When it is powered off, the phone is simply not registered. Now, go far far far away to turn on your phone and you will always get a missed call notice (maybe, voice mail) or all the text messages (that you didn't get in real time).
Up, up and Away!
 
pygmalion
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:34 pm

Quoting trinxat (Reply 52):
Probably someone has asked this question before, but if the plane actually fell to the sea, the impact into the water must have been recorded somewhere (sound travels underwater 4x times faster than in air) - Don't the military have systems to detect submarines at long distance?

or maybe passive sonar arrays from patrolling submarines?

Or earthquake sensors to detect potential tsunamis?

China may have some sonar arrays in this area. US arrays are focused on the Pacific Ocean.

Tsunami detection depends on water level changes detected by floating buoys and coastal seismology detection. It is possible an aircraft impact on water or land would show up but to pick it out of the background "noise" you would need to know when pretty specifically. Otherwise its a lot of data to sift through.

Who knows what kind of sensors are in this part of the world. China probably has the most resources here and they do have a vested interest in looking for this plane with mostly their citizens on board.
 
tim73
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:35 pm

"About 40 ships and 22 aircraft from nine countries are taking part in the search effort, which was expected to resume at first light. "

Plus the tens of ships sailing there every day. Plus hundreds of fish boats and speed boats out there. Plus satellite photos. Still nothing. My bet is nearby the Riau Islands. Search grid is not yet covering those waters.
 
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Finn350
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting s5daw (Reply 99):
As you see, he is supposedly the source. He is not. This is all made up.

Here is a CNN article with the same information but a different source:
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/11/wo...irlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Quote:
Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was hundreds of miles off course, traveling in the opposite direction from its original destination and had stopped sending identifying transponder codes before it disappeared, a senior Malaysian Air Force official told CNN Tuesday.

I believe the reason they are searching west of the Malay Peninsula is the military radar recordings.
 
kevinkevin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:36 pm

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 106):
do you have a cell phone, and do you have voice mail service (on the account), or text message service (on the account) ? Then turn it off and then use a friends phone to call your number/text your number. When it is powered off, the phone is simply not registered. Now, go far far far away to turn on your phone and you will always get a missed call notice (maybe, voice mail) or all the text messages (that you didn't get in real time).

I have a mobile phone. I turned my phone off. Rang my mobile on another phone. Went straight to answer machine. I then turned my phone on. There's no missed call at all.
 
awthompson
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:37 pm

Quoting OV735 (Reply 28):
If the A/C really went that way, it could take years or even decades to find the wreckage (assuming there is one to be found).

Hey, you have something there and I have been thinking similarly. If 9M-MRO headed out into the Indian Ocean beyond radar coverage and continued on an arbitrary but unknown heading, it is possible that it might never be found, at least not for a very long time.

I am totally shocked. In the earlier threads we were embarrassed by some of the far fetched scenarios that posters were coming up with. Now, it is beginning to look like some 'far fetched' scenario has indeed taken place. This is truly amazing.

Its hardly likely that it was shot down to prevent an attack on KL but the powers that be don't know how to break the news without causing extreme adverse reaction and backlash from China? Is it possible that the authorities were quite happy with the search efforts being concentrated in the wrong place for a few days to allow the real wreckage trail to dissipate as much as possible, or even to provide enough time to clear it up? Far fetched indeed, but right now absolutely anything is possible.
 
spacecadet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:37 pm

Somebody in the last thread mentioned an Airport '77 situation... you don't even need to go back that far, or to fiction for that. You only need to go back to Ethiopian 961.

That plane broke up on the water, but that was due to the roll on landing. It is possible for a plane to hit the water without breaking up like that. I don't see how you can rule out a hijacking gone bad, and it would explain pretty much everything, including the fact that the plane hasn't been found yet. And it's something that has actually happened before.

To me, it seems like the only theory that fits the facts so far.

[Edited 2014-03-11 13:38:32]
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
evomutant
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:39 pm

Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 110):
I have a mobile phone. I turned my phone off. Rang my mobile on another phone. Went straight to answer machine. I then turned my phone on. There's no missed call at all.

You called a domestic number from a domestic number.

Try doing the same thing to an international number, where your network has to "dial out" and connect to the network the device is on. You will get a ring tone, even if the phone is off.

Then, remember that any Chinese residents on board (and these reports all from China) will be "roaming", that is their phones will be connected (or will have last been connected) to a foreign network.
 
Andy33
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:39 pm

Now if someone has received a text message from a passenger on the missing plane, sent after it took off from Kuala Lumpur, that's really significant, but as far as I know nobody has said this. The part of phone text messaging that produces delivery receipts or "undelivered" notifications works where the origin and destination phones are both connected to and registered to the same country network. If one of the phones is in a different country (or was last connected there) then delivery receipts often malfunction, as the facility doesn't work well with roaming.
 
sbworcs
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:40 pm

Quoting octubre299 (Reply 88):
When you send a text message and it cannot be delivered you get a dialogue box stating so and to try later.

Actually I don't. I do not know if my messages have been sent or not. This might be a service I can switch on I do not know.

This whole thing is very strange though. I just hope that whatever happened is found out to allow closure for the families of all those involved.
The best way forwards is upwards!
 
DALFA
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:41 pm

Do we know after how many minutes the aircraft reached its cruising altitude?
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:43 pm

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 58):
It is impossible for me to accept that u can control 239 pax for a few hours and make them believe nothing is wrong.

True, but at the same time please consider the time of departure of this flight. It was a redeye flight and the number of people paying attention to anything other than trying to get some sleep would be minimal.
 
PHX Flyer
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:44 pm

As likeable as the captain appears in his online profile, I think his flight simulator needs to be thoroughly examined 5to find out what exactly he what flight maneuvers he was practicing in his leisure time ...
"Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes forever skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." -Leonardo Da Vinci
 
747megatop
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:45 pm

Quoting blrsea (Reply 94):
came close to Indian airspace without identifying itself,

Well, where exactly does the Indian airspace begin or end? I am talking about a point midway between the east coast of India and Andaman Islands. Looking flightradar24, flights seem to disappear in that region before reappearing. So, if MH370 entered that blind spot & went down in the blind spot would the Indian military pick it up?
 
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Finn350
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:45 pm

Quoting awthompson (Reply 111):
Hey, you have something there and I have been thinking similarly. If 9M-MRO headed out into the Indian Ocean beyond radar coverage and continued on an arbitrary but unknown heading, it is possible that it might never be found, at least not for a very long time.

China is now repositioning up to 10 imaging satellites. China is probably able to imagine the sea surface for the entire flying radius of the plane from the last known location. They can then put 1,000 analysts to look at satellite images to locate the debris. Even if the plane ditched relatively intact there still should be some debris floating, hopefully.

I read somewhere that a US Navy P-3 Orion is able to comb 1,000 square miles in an hour. It is a huge task, but as the plane is manufactured in the US, maybe US Navy is willing to put more P-3 Orions to search for the debris.
 
OV735
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:45 pm

Quoting octubre299 (Reply 75):
Fox news now is reporting an instant messaging service in China says many of the passenger's cell phones are still active and receiving texts................if the plane were under water this could not be possible.
Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 83):
How can mobile phones on the ocean bed be capable of receiving phone calls and texts. If you turn your phone off, it's impossible for you to receive calls and texts. This plane is not in the ocean. It can't be...

I don't know the technical side of whether or not the text can be confirmed "delivered" if the device is switched off, but...

If all the passengers were doing as they are told and switched their phones off or to flight mode, it would stop sending/receiving GSM signal. What would the scenario be that saw the cellphones switched back on again to receive texts, but nobody to operate them (ie call to relatives, answer calls, etc).

As much as I would like to believe that the phones and their owners are okay, I still have to agree with EricR on the cellphone issue:

Quoting EricR (Reply 92):
If you turn off your cell phone, your cell phone still receives texts. Text messages, voice mail, etc. are not stored on the device itself, hence the reason why you are able to retrieve/send messages through other means even if you do not have your cell phone with you. This news is coming from sources that do not understand the technological side of how wireless works.
 
rfields5421
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:46 pm

Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 2):
If the military tracked the aircraft at Pulau Perak at 3000ft, wouldn't they be able to track it's final position?

That's where their primary radar coverage ended. The plane flew out of their coverage capability.

Quoting klebert (Reply 8):
Quoting RJAF (Reply 245):Why did it take four days for the Malaysian Air Force to say what they are saying now?
Because so far the Malaysian responses and the handling has been unprofessional and there are too many different agencies involved on their side.
Quoting garpd (Reply 17):
- Malaysian Military now apparently coming clean about monitoring an unknown aircraft flying from the last known position of the missing 777 to the opposite side of the country and off over the Indian Ocean where it disappeared.

I would disagree that the Malaysian military has been covering up or incompetent, though it might be proven later they have.

Four days is not a bad time frame for someone to take all the radar data from the time of the loss of contact, review for unreported primary returns. Try to playback the data in a time line and see where the primary return might have come from, correlate data from several different radars and ATC centers and verify the unknown return was highly likely to be MH-370.

After about 2 1/2 days - the Malaysian military obviously communicated to the different nations SAR authorities that an unknown radar return which might be MH370 had turned and possibly flown west, or south.

We've seen the data refined each day as the search was expanded to the Straits.

Now the Malaysian military has enough evidence to say firmly that MH370 did turn back, overfly the country and head out over the Strait in a southwesterly direction.

Had they said that two days ago and wreckage turned up later close to Vietnam - people on this forum/ thread series would be blasting them for jumping to conclusions based on incomplete preliminary data.


Despite what you see in the movies, in the real world, military forces without extremely huge budgets do not track or identify every single primary return which shows up on radar. Even in the US it is possible for a plane to penetrate our border and fly several hundred miles without being picked up from a primary return. As long as the aircraft doesn't fly near any highly sensitive sites or cross into restricted airspace .
Not all who wander are lost.
 
ASA
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:46 pm

After the zillion threads, all I can do is throw up my hands and say:

"I guess there are triangles outside Bermuda too!"   
 
kevinkevin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:46 pm

Quoting DALFA (Reply 116):

Do we know after how many minutes the aircraft reached its cruising altitude?

Probably between 15-20 minutes. 772 is quite a swift climber. And a 5-6hr flight for a 772 is a walk in the park. About 40/50% fuel load considering this is the ER version of the 772.
 
PHX Flyer
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:47 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 112):
Ethiopian 961 ... That plane broke up on the water, but that was due to the roll on landing.

Actually, it hit a coral reef.
"Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes forever skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." -Leonardo Da Vinci
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:47 pm

In order to reduce redundant requests for informations, updates etc. - and to share our knowledge on this accident, I've created a wiki:

http://mh370.wikia.com

Everybody is invited to participate.



David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:48 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 92):
This news is coming from sources that do not understand the technological side of how wireless works.

Yup. I'm astonished at how little people understand about devices they use every day.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
s5daw
Posts: 348
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:48 pm

Quoting 345tas (Reply 105):
The fourth paragraph:
"It changed course after Kota Bharu and took a lower altitude. It made it into the Malacca Strait," the senior military officer, who has been briefed on investigations, told Reuters.

Apparently the whole article came from Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...lines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140311

But really, what is the credibility of this writing? They quoted the Chief of Royal Air Force saying something he didn't say and further the quote "the senior military officer". Actually, interesting use of article...not "a", but "the". Who is "the officer"? They don't mention his name.

Anyway, the people are hysteric and media is opportunistic. Any attractive story about the plane means millions of clicks and add placements. That's what it's all about.

But what is really certain is just that:
- the plane's last know position is similar to the one flight radar has in the database
- the military might have traced it turning back before it disappeared
- the military is searching the are in Malacca Strait (which, yes, is odd given the facts above)

Those are the facts. Everything else is more or less imagination trying to fill the gaps.
 
A388
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:51 pm

Quoting OV735 (Reply 121):
If all the passengers were doing as they are told and switched their phones off or to flight mode, it would stop sending/receiving GSM signal. What would the scenario be that saw the cellphones switched back on again to receive texts, but nobody to operate them (ie call to relatives, answer calls, etc).

As much as I would like to believe that the phones and their owners are okay, I still have to agree with EricR on the cellphone issue:

Quoting EricR (Reply 92):
If you turn off your cell phone, your cell phone still receives texts. Text messages, voice mail, etc. are not stored on the device itself, hence the reason why you are able to retrieve/send messages through other means even if you do not have your cell phone with you. This news is coming from sources that do not understand the technological side of how wireless works.

Maybe investigators should contact the providers of the cell phones of the passengers on board the aircraft to see if there are any messages received and/or sent after the aircraft went missing. Maybe this is my too simplistic and amateuristic thinking so please correct me here.

A388
 
pygmalion
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:51 pm

to the curious.

This image shows the 777 transponder and TCAS in the standby position. There would be no transmission with the standby selected.

Its that easy to turn off if so desired.

777 ATC control panel
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:52 pm

I don't believe the MAF tracked 9M-MRO headed toward Malaysia without ID and didn't react.
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:52 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 104):
David

Very helpful response, David. Thanks!

In summary, the pilot made the choice to turn off the transponder - which is acceptable in emergency situations - as there would be no external cause for it to go off by any other means. Got it!

That said, assuming an emergency scenario, the pilot would certainly understand that the aircraft would not be able to identify itself either and, given that he was rapidly approaching Vietnam airspace, this seems to corroborate a reason for the turn back to Malaysian airspace as widely reported today.

-Mike
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
747megatop
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:53 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 100):
That, at night, is just simply not possible.

Since the miraculous landing on Hudson did take place; anything is possible and i would not rule that (almost intact landing) out. Agreed that the Hudson landing was in the day and not at sea...but...who knows...calm seas and with clear visibility...who knows? Again, this is just speculation as nothing can be ruled out.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:53 pm

Well, assuming the track of the aircraft is correct (big assumption at this point), I'd say someone capable of turning off the transponder did so as the plane kept on its normal track. After it was off, they immediately took control and tried to head back to Kuala Lumpur (hence a wide long turn).

I suspect it was perhaps a amateur hijacker that wanted to get back specifically to KL. They probably made a wide turn back and struggled to fly at night.

The only target in Malaysia that worries me is the Petronas Towers. Those are huge sky scrapers similar to the Twin Towers. I am sure the FBI and Malaysia are aware of this unfortunate coincidence. Being Iranian myself, I seriously, seriously doubt the two boys were involved. Iranians aren't suicidal terrorists themselves. Occasionally they support Hezbollah but that's about it. Even if they were, I doubt they'd choose Malaysia as the target. They'd hit their own government.
 
richierich
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:54 pm

Quoting PHX Flyer (Reply 118):
As likeable as the captain appears in his online profile, I think his flight simulator needs to be thoroughly examined 5to find out what exactly he what flight maneuvers he was practicing in his leisure time ...

Is the flight simulator really that significant of a clue? I mean, yes, I suppose it could be a clue if there is reason to suspect the pilot was responsible for the change of direction and disappearance. But other than that, what clues do you really think it would hold (or record?) My guess is precious little.

My flight instructor school had a FFS for a Cessna. While it was fairly rudimentary, it provided some very interesting sensations and, honestly, if this school could have one, anybody could with a minimal investment and some work. It may take some time to get a B777 FFS up and running, yes, but there are plenty of aviation geeks out there I know that would love unrestricted access to one!
None shall pass!!!!
 
kevinkevin
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:52 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:54 pm

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 130):

Baffling to me is how pilots have the option to turn the transponder off. There obviously is a perfect explanation as to why. But when there's catastrophes such as this... life would be so much easier if it was always on. Would it not?
 
Shanwick1011Z
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:00 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:55 pm

China will be using these satellites to scour all possible landing sites within range of his known fuel uptake because this hijack has been
well planned and possible landing practised for hours on a certain crew members simulator-----hence not much news coming from the authorities!
 
cabochris
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:17 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:56 pm

Quoting desh (Reply 96):

All you would see is a moving anomaly return. A blip on a screen. You will be able to decipher the direction, altitude and speed of the anomaly, or whether its a large or small object, floating weather balloon or a flock of birds even. If nothing is there, then its not there, that means its not there anymore and cant be anywhere else unless it was stealth equipped. It didn't fly down to 3000 ft and fly somewhere undetected... something happened at 350, that resulted in a pitch down and bank, and then the target was lost at 290.

What we are seeing here is an inexperienced state in this kind of event. Its starting to show that the regions is not all that equipment for this type of event, and that is why the delay in looking the plane's impact site.

Rest assured a.net and the world, there is so much money and power at stake here, the needle will be found in the haystack. By someone.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6374
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:58 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 129):
Maybe investigators should contact the providers of the cell phones of the passengers on board the aircraft to see if there are any messages received and/or sent after the aircraft went missing.

Almost certainly the authorities have already contacted the cell companies a couple days ago to see if anything has been received from those phones. Once they were able to identify the various carriers from the relatives of the people on the flights.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 131):
I don't believe the MAF tracked 9M-MRO headed toward Malaysia without ID and didn't react.

I have seen nothing which says they were tracking that primary contact. It could easily have been ignored or lost in clutter. The time frame of the change in search and unofficial announcement is more like a review of recorded radar data played back for analysis. Which is SOP for a search such as this. Not only Malaysia, but Vietnam, Thailand, China, Borneo, the Philippines and Indonesia have almost certainly been reviewing radar raw data.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
pygmalion
Posts: 837
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:47 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:58 pm

Just to throw a monkey wrench into the terrorist theories...

it is also possible that the airplane had a malfunction/fire etc that caused widespread electrical failure, the pilots made a turn back towards KL and didnt make it. Not saying this happened but it is as likely as any other theory.

All accidents can normally be traced to a long singe chain of very improbable/unlikely events.

Only time will tell.
 
evomutant
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:47 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:00 pm

Quoting Shanwick1011Z (Reply 137):
China will be using these satellites to scour all possible landing sites within range of his known fuel uptake because this hijack has been
well planned and possible landing practised for hours on a certain crew members simulator-----hence not much news coming from the authorities!

Case solved everyone.
 
 
747megatop
Posts: 1785
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:22 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:01 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 91):
I also believe that they did not track 9M-MRO anywhere, save for the turn and descent at IGARI.

Then i think that is where the aircraft would be on the Ocean floor. AF 447 was also found more or less in the region of the last known point of contact. I think in this case MH 370 probably sank without a trace (inexplicable but probably the only explanation). Have they done underwater SONAR scans and ruled out the presence of underwater wreckage at the point of that turn and descent?
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 112):
That plane broke up on the water, but that was due to the roll on landing. It is possible for a plane to hit the water without breaking up like that.

While the roll played a part, what actually destroyed the plane as it ditched was the speed, which I believe was close, if not upwards of 200 knts.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 133):
Since the miraculous landing on Hudson did take place; anything is possible and i would not rule that (almost intact landing) out. Agreed that the Hudson landing was in the day and not at sea...but...who knows...calm seas and with clear visibility...who knows? Again, this is just speculation as nothing can be ruled out.

On that Hudson landing the plane was severely damaged in the back, towards the bottom, to the point it was filling with water pretty quickly as soon as it stopped. The fuselage was severly breached and broken. And that was as you say, in the day, with a calm river. So at night, with seas in which we don´t know the condition, and under duress in all likelihood, I doubt the result would have left the plane "intact". If it were intact, survivors would have already been recovered in drafts and they would have had a lot of time to escape.
 
Mikey711MN
Posts: 1253
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:19 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:03 pm

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 140):
Not saying this happened but it is as likely as any other theory.

Agreed...except that I think some sort of unintended failure is more likely since few, if any, theories that discuss terrorism fail to address motivation whereas they tend to be focused on means and opportunity.
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
janbrubel
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:34 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:04 pm

Quoting awthompson (Reply 111):
I have a mobile phone. I turned my phone off. Rang my mobile on another phone. Went straight to answer machine. I then turned my phone on. There's no missed call at all.
Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 106):
do you have a cell phone, and do you have voice mail service (on the account), or text message service (on the account) ? Then turn it off and then use a friends phone to call your number/text your number. When it is powered off, the phone is simply not registered. Now, go far far far away to turn on your phone and you will always get a missed call notice (maybe, voice mail) or all the text messages (that you didn't get in real time).

Regarding cellphones. As stated earlier in this impressive string of threads, it can be explained by cellular traffic handling. When roaming cell phones tend to not always react as you would expect. I regularly call people in South East Asia through my European cell phone company, both from outside and inside the target countries. 5 out of 10 times I get a ringtone even when the person later says they never got an incoming call. Sometimes I only get 2 or 3 rings and a 'caller unreachable message' after, sometimes a classic 5 or 6 + switch to voice mail, sometimes I can seemingly let it ring endlessly but the result is always the same: on the other end nobody got an actual incoming call.

I do understand that relatives cling on to every bit of hope but I'm afraid that this has more to do with how mobile phone companies handle their call traffic than live passenger cell phones.
 
manny
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:06 pm

There are so many theories. I know we will eventually have a fair idea of what happened. Sometimes some of the facts are suppressed to make things not look bad for the airline or the country. The Egypt Air incid7ent comes to mind when Egypt went to town with spending on lobbying to prevent the truth from being documented. I hope that's not the case here.

Latest news India's Navy and satellites join the search over Malacca Straits.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...a-Straits/articleshow/31855418.cms
 
747megatop
Posts: 1785
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:22 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:09 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 143):
I doubt the result would have left the plane "intact"

By intact i meant not broken into a zillion pieces. If the plane was damaged with a few ruptures but not disintegrated i would count that as intact enough to allow for a few survivors till the plane filled up with water and sank without leaving a trace of debris (can't explain the lake of floating items like safety cards, soft toys of kids etc. though).
 
345tas
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:05 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:09 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 122):
Four days is not a bad time frame for someone to take all the radar data from the time of the loss of contact, review for unreported primary returns. Try to playback the data in a time line and see where the primary return might have come from, correlate data from several different radars and ATC centers and verify the unknown return was highly likely to be MH-370.

Thanks for this and the rest of your post. I found it really helpful, and made me feel a bit bad for bashing them around for searching the Straits. It makes sense for them not to announce info about the Straits without them being very confident, especially given all the false sightings of debris that were happening at the time.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 128):
But really, what is the credibility of this writing? They quoted the Chief of Royal Air Force saying something he didn't say and further the quote "the senior military officer". Actually, interesting use of article...not "a", but "the". Who is "the officer"? They don't mention his name.

Interesting use of the article "the"? Because they had already referred to the senior officer in the first paragraph, to make clear they are talking about the same person, they therein use "the". They are not named because the officer requested anonymity because they are not prepared to officially confirm it yet.

If you don't trust Reuters, then don't bother reading any news outlets ever again, because they are basically the pinnacle when it comes to accuracy.
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:34 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14

Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:10 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 131):
I don't believe the MAF tracked 9M-MRO headed toward Malaysia without ID and didn't react.

I do believe - the guys all looked TV and the fascinating story of a missing airliner, and didn't realize it was flying dircectly before their eyes - that is how military uses to be in most countries.
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