bond007
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:53 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 33):

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 19):
MUCH
MUCH higher resolution photos and are not releasing the photos due to military secrecy reasons.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I doubt they'd release what they are really looking at. They make all the digital cameras now so its not like the infrastructure doesn't exist.

Since there are numerous military satellites in orbit, you can probably estimate the resolution to be many times, if not orders of magnitude better than they make public.

You only need to zoom in on Google Earth and see the best resolution ... then assume twice that resolution, or 10 times that resolution, or....

This is exactly what taxpayer's money is spent on, even after the cold war.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
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SuseJ772
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:54 am

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 48):
And his passport number!

I noticed that too. Crazy.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
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SuseJ772
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:57 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 42):
This probably was posted a few times but I'll say it again for emphasis- the CNN iReport from someone using a satallite that spotted what appears to be a fuselage has no brevity or no actual definitive proof that it is MH370, so unless it is actually found by authorities, that is not MH370.

Plus if you look at the small field that Tomnod actually is, it is even more improbable.

Quoting lnglive1011yyz (Reply 46):
What about overlaying the ocean currents? That might help too..

I would love to. I don't know where to find that data.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
vnangia
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:59 am

Oh man, if that is indeed the wreckage, it's completely unconscionable the time they've wasted looking in the Malacca Straits instead of exactly where they should have been looking. If the last location they saw the transponder was IGARI, this is only 100mi or so away, well within the range you'd expect it to be. Instead they've been hunting in the Indian Ocean. Can you imagine the fallout if they find some people survived the crash, only to die because of they weren't rescued in time, ala JAL 123?

While I sincerely hope there's never another accident for Malaysia to investigate, I really hope that if there is, they don't and they promptly call in competent adult supervision. Insane, just insane.
 
gulfstream650
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:59 am

Is there an upcoming pres conference?

I'm dying to hear about what is being done regarding these new Chinese 'crash' images.
I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe
 
squad55
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:00 am

Would a meteoroid be detected in the radar? CNN said there was activity in the area that night. Perhaps the mystery contact was from space?
 
lmpinto
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:01 am

Quoting bond007 (Reply 50):
You only need to zoom in on Google Earth and see the best resolution ... then assume twice that resolution, or 10 times that resolution, or....

I believe the high resolution Google Earth imagery is aerial photography, is it not ?
 
rfields5421
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:02 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 41):
The problem I have with the Chinese sat images is that they are showing three large chunks of whatever. Even if the aircraft made it relatively intact onto the water, there surely must be a lot of small debris, freight and equipment floating around and not just three large pieces of the aircraft.

Every piece of floating debris has its own drift rate. Some will move with the water currents, some with the wind, some by a combination of both. 12 hours is plenty of time for light wind blown debris to separates from larger current impacted debris.

We saw that with the AF447 debris.

Also, given the resolution of the images from China - there might be a lot of small debris around the big items - just too small to pick out.


Quoting airplane (Reply 43):
But since this is a Boeing, is NTSB on this too ?

The Boeing, and the NTSB, will be part of the investigation - but not primaries.

As far as the search - the NTSB has nothing to do with searches.

The US Navy and other branches are assisting, and advising the search. The US is likely working at the request of Malaysia - and being tasked to search certain areas by the Malaysian SAR professionals.

The international effort is a bit difficult to coordinate. Vietnam, Thailand, China, Borneo, Indonesia, India and the Philippines will run their own SAR operation in their waters and area of responsibility. They will report their results to Malaysia, but they won't take direction from Malaysia as to when, where and how to search and what assets to use.

Other nations like the United States, Japan, Australia will search international waters - in areas requested by the Malaysian SAR leadership - and given their capabilities of the aircraft and ships they have committed to the effort.

The US will turn over all their results to Malaysia and allow them to make any announcements about specific areas that were searched.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
nupogodi
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:02 am

Quoting bond007 (Reply 50):
Since there are numerous military satellites in orbit, you can probably estimate the resolution to be many times, if not orders of magnitude better than they make public.

There are not that many of them owned by any one country, I believe (though I have no insider information). Imaging such a large area in one day would require a massive amount of surveillance resources concentrated on one area - possible when you have access to lots of sats, but you wouldn't be able to do it with your limited number of secret ones that make the pretty pictures   Not because you can't afford them, but because there's no reason to have so many in similar orbits.

Unless you're America, I suppose. Who knows about them.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
rfields5421
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:05 am

Quoting lmpinto (Reply 56):
I believe the high resolution Google Earth imagery is aerial photography, is it not ?

Yes, though they do buy some danged good satellite imagery.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
ubeema
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:07 am

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 51):

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 48):
And his passport number!

I noticed that too. Crazy.

Also he may have done it to confirm his identity in case someone else would have claimed the sighting in his place
 
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Starlionblue
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:08 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 57):
The US Navy and other branches are assisting, and advising the search. The US is likely working at the request of Malaysia - and being tasked to search certain areas by the Malaysian SAR professionals.

The international effort is a bit difficult to coordinate. Vietnam, Thailand, China, Borneo, Indonesia, India and the Philippines will run their own SAR operation in their waters and area of responsibility. They will report their results to Malaysia, but they won't take direction from Malaysia as to when, where and how to search and what assets to use.

Other nations like the United States, Japan, Australia will search international waters - in areas requested by the Malaysian SAR leadership - and given their capabilities of the aircraft and ships they have committed to the effort.

The US will turn over all their results to Malaysia and allow them to make any announcements about specific areas that were searched.

Don't forget Singapore. As Zeke pointed out way back, the aircraft actually vanished in the Singapore SSR, which covers large parts of the Gulf of Thailand and the South China Sea.

I'm not an expert but does this not mean Singapore is nominally in charge of coordinating efforts in this area?

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
9VSIO
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:09 am

Quoting ubeema (Reply 60):
Also he may have done it to confirm his identity in case someone else would have claimed the sighting in his place

I understand that, but I'm more thinking about the publication of the photograph! The email reveals that the rig worker knows what he is talking about.
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
tkukucka
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:10 am

Just on cnn
"Malaysian search aircraft en route to area satellite images suggest could be a crash site: Malaysian air force official." -- CNN www.cnn.com
 
nupogodi
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:11 am

Quoting lmpinto (Reply 56):
I believe the high resolution Google Earth imagery is aerial photography, is it not ?

In cities and other high-density areas, yes.

They source whatever they can get, though. You'll find aerial photography in strange places due to this sometimes.

The reality is that space-based visual-spectrum imaging on the civilian side is not as powerful as you might have been led to believe. Resolution is often poor, and high-resolution satellites in the civilian space are deployed to orbits that will maximize profit. They are not cheap.

The Chinese images may be low-resolution because they are hiding military technology, or because they simply didn't have enough high-resolution assets in place in a compatible orbit. You'll notice one of the images is black and white! You could think that this is China trying to throw you off, or you could reasonably assume that this was simply an image from one of the assets they had in the area.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
dtw2hyd
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:19 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 57):
The US Navy and other branches are assisting, and advising the search. The US is likely working at the request of Malaysia - and being tasked to search certain areas by the Malaysian SAR professionals.

Once US Navy gets those coordinates, they will run those by NRO. NRO can quickly pull up their imagery and tell what those are even before someone visits the site. If Malaysia asks US Navy, they will send their assets out even if they know ahead of time.

China claims those objects are floating, most experts here claimed 777 has no large items which can float. AF447 horizontal stabilizer if CRFP that is the reason it was floating.
 
capt747ret
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:19 am

Please indulge me in what I’ve been pondering for the last few days. At this stage of the investigation we still have very little data and some of it may seem to either contradict or appear to be implausible.
I’ve thought about a botched hijacking where the perpetrators use an explosive device to blow open the cockpit door. There could have been other means to gain entry, but I’m using this train of thought. A first class passenger going to the restroom up front next to the cockpit door is an easy route to position themselves and the device.
I think many captains would first think that there was an explosive decompression and dawn their oxygen masks.
At this time the FP initiates a high dive. When conducting a high dive it is best to start a shallow turn as the turn also causes an increased loss of altitude. This maneuver would not only show the A/C in a very rapid decent but also a heading change. This all would be normal and expected. It is what we train for.
At that time the hijackers enter the flight deck. They fight with the NFP. During this brief time the hijackers turn off the transponder.
I think it would be right to think that the pax would fight back in any way they can.
This scenario has many possible directions it can take. If it was a hijacking then how many involved? How many going for the flight deck and how many to control the pax. If an explosive device used, did it depressurize the A/C?
Continuing… The hijackers kill or severely injure the flight crew. The hijackers take control of the A/C until the pax, fighting back, take them out. If this occurs then there is no one to fly the plane.
If they did a high dive then the autopilot and autothrottles were probably off as I guess the 777 procedures would be, and the plane was being flown manually. I was trained to turn them off and do it manually. That was true for the DC-8-63, DC-10, B747-100/200.
If the hijackers retained control for a longer period of time then they probably knew how to reengage autopilot and autothrottles. They would want to keep low and under radar coverage and head toward their “destination”.
If it was a 911 type scenario they would head for it. At some point the pax could have taken the plane back.
The real terror of this is that the pax could have regained control but there was no one who knew how to fly or communicate with the outside world for help. The A/C could have been in heading mode with altitude hold until fuel exhaustion.
I have read much of all the threads. Something like this could account for some of the actions and what appear to be some contradictions.
Depending on what really happened the plane could have been in flight for a few minutes or much longer.
 
David L
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:20 am

Quoting vnangia (Reply 53):
it's completely unconscionable the time they've wasted looking in the Malacca Straits instead of exactly where they should have been looking.

To what extent has the search off the west coast impacted the search in the Gulf of Thailand? All I've seen is that the search area was "extended" to the Malacca Strait - no mention of pulling resources from the initial search area.
 
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Coal
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:21 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 57):
Borneo

Not to nitpick, but I think you mean Brunei. Borneo is an island shared by Malaysia, Indonesia, and Brunei.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 57):
The international effort is a bit difficult to coordinate. Vietnam, Thailand, China, Borneo, Indonesia, India and the Philippines will run their own SAR operation in their waters and area of responsibility. They will report their results to Malaysia, but they won't take direction from Malaysia as to when, where and how to search and what assets to use.

And I think herein lies the problem. There should be someone taking the lead on coordinating the 12 countries involved in the search (Japan, New Zealand, and Australia are also helping). I think a big part of why nothing has been found is probably the lack of coordination. Even the Vietnamese seem a bit exasperated at the Malaysians and have called off their SAR efforts.

On a separate note, I am curious to know which airport are the US and Australian P3s, as well as other countries' aircraft using? Does anyone know?

Cheers
Coal
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mandala499
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:22 am



Quoting captainx (Reply 170):

Would the new FAA AD on the depressuriztion/break-up risk on the 777 cause loss of the transponder and comm antennas? One expert suggest that if the decomp event occurred and the pilots changed course prior to donning their masks then both pilots would likely pass out quickly and the plane would fly on the new course until it ran out of fuel.

It does not apply to this plane. This is a repeat I know, but am saying it to enforce the fact that we've covered this already.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 191):

That information is contained in these documents:

OH YOU'RE A LIFE SAVER! I was looking for these !!! You just saved me a LOT of time... and possibly saved the industry time too from listening to the "stream the black boxes" crowd.

Quoting captainx (Reply 210):

On the ground somewhere?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQexNlbudW4

I am sorry, posting that here is an insult to the participants who seems to have a better idea that that media you showed.

Quoting pihero (Reply 217):

These kinds of abnormalities in flight would have seriously graver effects on safety.
What is interesting is that the abnormal situation starts very gently : loss of one bus, no big deal, no need to call home... until suddeenly one is a full fledged emergency with high life-threatening possibilities...including pilots' incapacitation.
But it's only one possible scenario.
Must be others...

I am looking into these kinds of scenarios... the "no need to call" event which quickly goes into a "holy crap" situation. So now I have two fire related possibilities.

Quoting stuyyz (Reply 146):

I agree, this phone thing just won't go away, argh....at least the passport thing has gone away, finally.

Finally... You have no idea how many of the media and their "experts" laughed when I said in front of the camera that the passport issue does not automatically rule a terrorist act and that it could simply mean illegal migrants or refugee traffic...
Oh well... life goes on nonetheless  Smile

----

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 3):

Alright, EVERYONE needs to stop using Tomnod.

I now see why they don't publish their coordinates

Finally someone confirms my suspicions! MUCH APPRECIATED!!!!!!!!!

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 8):

map on Avherald which puts it southeast of the last known secondary contact, and that website is not known for being inaccurate.

On the contrary, Avherald has literally no safeguard in it's mechanism to prevent inaccurate but referenced material from appearing. Trying to raise the issue has actually resulted in me being banned from commenting there. So... so much for "not known for being inaccurate"...  Sad

[Edited 2014-03-12 19:15:49]
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
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Starlionblue
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:23 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 65):
China claims those objects are floating, most experts here claimed 777 has no large items which can float. AF447 horizontal stabilizer if CRFP that is the reason it was floating.

That's only part of the reason the vertical stab was floating. It had trapped air pockets inside that gave buoyancy. Besides, the 777 fin is also CFRP so it could potentially float just as well.

There's really no way of knowing for sure. It depends on how waterlogged stuff is and if there are any air pockets. Things like seat cushions, galley carts, structural bits with air pockets, clothing. All that stuff can float. If memory serves, part of a galley from AF447 was afloat. I have no problem believing parts of the wing can float. Even if the tanks are still sealed (yes, I know very unlikely) the fact that jet fuel is less dense than air might make the wing float.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
bond007
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:24 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 64):
Quoting lmpinto (Reply 56):
I believe the high resolution Google Earth imagery is aerial photography, is it not ?

In cities and other high-density areas, yes.

On the images that are obviously satellite, you can still assume a huge increase in resolution for a military satellite.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 58):
There are not that many of them owned by any one country,

China has over 100, most of which I'm sure we don't really know what they do. The USA has around 1000 (?), most of them government or military. Japan, over 100..etc.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
AT
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:24 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 68):
And I think herein lies the problem. There should be someone taking the lead on coordinating the 12 countries involved in the search (Japan, New Zealand, and Australia are also helping). I think a big part of why nothing has been found is probably the lack of coordination. Even the Vietnamese seem a bit exasperated at the Malaysians and have called off their SAR efforts.

Agree completely. when it comes to search and rescue and human life, political boundaries should be irrelevant.
 
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Starlionblue
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:28 am

Quoting Capt747Ret (Reply 66):
If they did a high dive then the autopilot and autothrottles were probably off as I guess the 777 procedures would be, and the plane was being flown manually. I was trained to turn them off and do it manually. That was true for the DC-8-63, DC-10, B747-100/200.

One former 744 pilot told me that at his company the question whether to hand fly or use the autopilot in an emergency descent depended on who the chief pilot was at the time. Different ones seemed to have different ideas.

In any case that doesn't change the point of your post. Interesting scenario.

Quoting AT (Reply 72):
Awhen it comes to search and rescue and human life, political boundaries should be irrelevant.

Absolutely. Unfortunately that is very optimistic. People won't stop being petty or try to gain political advantage in these situations.

[Edited 2014-03-12 18:30:14]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Airvan00
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:37 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 68):
On a separate note, I am curious to know which airport are the US and Australian P3s, as well as other countries' aircraft using? Does anyone know?

The Australian P3s went to butterworth ( the ex British and then australian base)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMAF_Butterworth
 
CO953
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:38 am

User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2621 posts, RR: 2
Reply 322, posted Wed Mar 12 2014 14:26:23 your local time (1 hour 46 minutes 57 secs ago) and read 9533 times:

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 133):
Civil Air Patrol finds downed planes in the US all the time
----------------------------------

And sometimes they don't. Steve Fossett's plane disappeared on September 3, 2007. The Civil Air Patrol searched for it for a month and couldn't find it. The search was called off on October 2, 2007. The plane was finally found one year later, on September 29, 2008, by a hiker. And that happened in California, the most populous state in the US. Should then we all conclude that the Civil Air Patrol, and the US in general, are totally incompetent when it comes to finding downed planes?Or should we just decide it was very hard to find, in a remote mountain area (yet 5 miles away from a ski resort!)? Then why is it that so many people here are assuming that the Malaysian authorities are inept for not finding what actually may very well not be there?
----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------

New comment by CO953:

Pardon me for copy/pasting this from thread 16. I am not experienced w/the ins and outs of anet commenting between closed threads.

It is interesting to compare this to the Steve Fossett search. Fossett's aviation friends searched very hard, spending countless hours in the air. The crowd-sourcing of the satellite photos was the first time I saw this method used. I helped, myself, alerting on a couple images. It struck me what an amazing resource it was..... YET - in the end it did not help. It took a hiker down the back side of Mammoth, below the Minarets, to stumble upon the Fossett wreckage. By total happenstance, that day I was taking my father on what turned out to be our last fishing trip, and had planned to fish in a lake that ended up being not far from the crash site. While driving to the lake, I heard on the radio that they suspected they had found Fossett's plane. A couple minutes later we hit a police barricade and were turned back. As respectfully as I could, I asked the policewoman whether they had found him and she nodded. What struck me is that they really hadn't been looking in that spot... he was some distance from where they thought... AND, due to the infinite variety of colors and reflections, as well as seasonal changes and snow cover, they would never have found it from the air. There was never any explanation as to why the plane was where it was.

So despite some similarities we have something both like and unlike from the Fossett case in several respects.

Water is flat and though it offers so many reflective aspects, it does not have elevation to cast shadows.
Wreckage mostly sinks in water., and what doesn't sink is subject to scattering currents, unlike wreckage lying on a mountainside. The hiker in the Fossett case was climbing in an area not often climbed.. the find was luck. This correlates with the fact that you have a huge sea and only so many fishermen, who mostly stick to shore.

With the Fossett case, due to the passage of time and the stationary nature of the wreckage, discovery was eventually likely, barring its lying in an inaccessible canyon or mountain ridge or lake. But with this 777, once the currents disperse any surface wreckage, it seems to become more difficult.

I am wondering if they ever find this plane.
 
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DeltaMD90
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:39 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 68):
On a separate note, I am curious to know which airport are the US and Australian P3s, as well as other countries' aircraft using? Does anyone know?

I know the USN has a lot of P-3s at Kadena AFB... not sure if there are any others in the area or if the USN P-3(s) are using another airfield while searching. Can't comment on the RAAF's
 
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zeke
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:47 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 68):

The Australian P3s are normally based at Butterworth, it used to be an Australian base, still gets visits from P3s, C130s, and F/A-18s. A P3 can easily launch for 15+ hours. For SAR they can shut a couple of engines down to increase endurance.

The P3 is also one of the few aircraft that can pickup the underwater pinger by dropping buoys.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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SuseJ772
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:47 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 70):
Finally someone confirms my suspicions! MUCH APPRECIATED!!!!!!!!!

Well as much as you have done (along with Starlionblue, Phiero, and Zeke), I am glad I could finally return the favor in even the smallest way. I have learned a lot from the four of you over the years (as well as Slamclick and Philsquares for the days of old).
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
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Coal
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 74):
The Australian P3s went to butterworth ( the ex British and then australian base)

Thanks.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 76):
I know the USN has a lot of P-3s at Kadena AFB... not sure if there are any others in the area or if the USN P-3(s) are using another airfield while searching.

Yes, but where are they landing and refueling? Obviously they're not going back to Japan every night.

Cheers
Coal
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imagoagnitio
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:49 am

found this strange, both planespotters.net & airfleets.net have the aircraft as written-off.

In planespotters case they even have notations that it CRASHED, whereas airlinefleet have it as disappeared.

http://www.planespotters.net/Product...28420,9M-MRO-Malaysia-Airlines.php

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b777-28420.htm
 
nupogodi
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:51 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 70):
On the contrary, Avherald has literally no safeguard in it's mechanism to prevent inaccurate but referenced material from appearing. Trying to raise the issue has actually resulted in me being banned from commenting there. So... so much for "not known for being inaccurate"...  

Awh, sorry to hear that. I guess I should have said I personally don't know them to be inaccurate, based on the accuracy of their reporting through every event I have followed. It is only anecdotal   Sorry.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:55 am

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 81):
found this strange, both planespotters.net & airfleets.net have the aircraft as written-off.

In planespotters case they even have notations that it CRASHED, whereas airlinefleet have it as disappeared.

http://www.planespotters.net/Product...28420,9M-MRO-Malaysia-Airlines.php

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b777-28420.htm

Somewhat premature, definitely.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
dtw2hyd
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:11 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 68):
On a separate note, I am curious to know which airport are the US and Australian P3s, as well as other countries' aircraft using? Does anyone know?

I would think US P3s/P8-As in that region operate from Diego Garcia. I may be wrong.

India operates Do-228 based Electronic Surveillance Aircraft from Andaman & Nicobar Islands. They also have P8-Is, Tu-142s and IL38SDs. India is not willingly deploy P8-Is because Chinese will be happy to shadow and collect information about P8. If at all P8 need to be used better done by US.
 
Flightsimboy
Posts: 1772
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:12 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 17):
Until the aircraft is located and the Voice and Data Recorders are retrieved, everything is pure speculation.
Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 17):
Until that happens with this tragic accident, everything is pure speculation and heresy. Only then will we know what really happened and this tragedy can be put to rest and MAYBE some corrections can be made to help prevent a repeat of this accident.   

And to think this has gone to 17 threads, with some "a.nutters" excited about breaking a record...really
  

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
**** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; could we please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads? ****

Possible future movie rights...don't get me wrong, I watch air crash documentaries and even the odd movie regarding a crash, but to start talking of a movie before nothing is even proven is just disrespectful to the families and every person closely linked to this crash in some way.

I do believe I am quite ashamed to be associated with airliners.net.
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
rfields5421
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:14 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 68):
On a separate note, I am curious to know which airport are the US and Australian P3s, as well as other countries' aircraft using? Does anyone know?

The US might be flying out of the Philippines or more likely U-Taphao, Thailand. Both are still visited by US aircraft at various times.

Some more information on US assistance

http://www.stripes.com/news/navy/uss...arch-for-missing-jetliner-1.271996

Also an overview of the entire search effort

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26514556

[Edited 2014-03-12 19:21:00]
Not all who wander are lost.
 
neoshi
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:15 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 86):

Diego Garcia is almost 3000 nm to the Gulf. The US probably wouldn't supply P3s given that range unless we were given airbases in Malaysia to operate from (I know we are operating one P3 from a regional base though, just don't know which one).

[Edited 2014-03-12 19:18:45]
 
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N328KF
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:17 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 86):
India is not willingly deploy P8-Is because Chinese will be happy to shadow and collect information about P8. If at all P8 need to be used better done by US.

I suspect that India is just getting used to their first one. Do you think they would actually use it in "anger" at this point?
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
mandala499
Posts: 6592
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:19 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 82):
Awh, sorry to hear that.

I still go there to read, but I always check the references since then...
It's good, as long as you know its weaknesses and know how to deal with it...

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 79):
I am glad I could finally return the favor in even the smallest way.

No no... this is not small! As I said, MUCH appreciated! 

*and now the media knows am no longer ill... phone calls are coming in again! AAARGHHH!*
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
thegreatRDU
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:24 am

This looks more and more like an Egyptair 990 situation to me.
Our Returning Champion
 
vnangia
Posts: 75
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:25 am

Quoting David L (Reply 67):
To what extent has the search off the west coast impacted the search in the Gulf of Thailand? All I've seen is that the search area was "extended" to the Malacca Strait - no mention of pulling resources from the initial search area.

I assume that every country has a limited total number of SAR personnel and equipment. Every bit of SAR out in the Malacca Strait is SAR that was not looking in the right place. Beyond that, Vietnam actually pretty much gave up for about 36 hours based on media reports relaying that the Malaysian authorities were focused on the Malacca Straits at the expense of the Gulf of Thailand. In addition, looking far west of the last detected point seemed completely nonsensical and random to a lot of both professional aviation types and us armchair experts. While I sincerely hope never to have to do such a thing, I'd hope if I did, I had the good sense to keep searching the area around last known point for much longer and with more intensity, before trying to then look in a random direction elsewhere.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 62):
I'm not an expert but does this not mean Singapore is nominally in charge of coordinating efforts in this area?

For that matter, as was pointed out several threads ago, if the maps are accurate, the flight should have been under Singapore ATC control, not Malaysian; IGARI appears to have been within Singapore ATC on that map. I'm guessing either there's been a change in responsibility at some point and the charts aren't reflecting that, or there are informal arrangements between Singaporean and Malaysian ATC that's not reflected on the charts. Either way, if the currents maps are right, the wreckage is probably near the Spratly Islands - which is a bag of diplomatic hurt, as you can read in the Wikipedia article.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2004
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:27 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 68):

On a separate note, I am curious to know which airport are the US and Australian P3s, as well as other countries' aircraft using? Does anyone know?

Wikipedia claims that US P8 normally operates from DNA
But like previous posters say they are probably operating from somewhere close
during the search operations.

Anyhow:

"Vietnamese authorities say they already searched the area where the Chinese satellites
photographed possible debris, but will check again to make sure.
One military official has told Reuters a plane has been sent to the region already.
“We are aware and we sent planes to cover that area over the past three days,” deputy
transport minister Pham Quy Tieu told Reuters.

today a (military) plane will search the area again"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ive#block-532114d3e4b0edca9ee78e24

[Edited 2014-03-12 19:29:10]

[Edited 2014-03-12 19:29:40]
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
vnangia
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:57 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:29 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 90):
I suspect that India is just getting used to their first one. Do you think they would actually use it in "anger" at this point?

        

That said, India would probably help if asked since they've now volunteered. There is the minor problem of a base from them to operate from - India doesn't have agreements with anyone in that area, and the P8Is would not be able to roundtrip from any Indian naval facility.
 
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Starlionblue
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:32 am

Quoting vnangia (Reply 93):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 62):
I'm not an expert but does this not mean Singapore is nominally in charge of coordinating efforts in this area?

For that matter, as was pointed out several threads ago, if the maps are accurate, the flight should have been under Singapore ATC control, not Malaysian; IGARI appears to have been within Singapore ATC on that map. I'm guessing either there's been a change in responsibility at some point and the charts aren't reflecting that, or there are informal arrangements between Singaporean and Malaysian ATC that's not reflected on the charts. Either way, if the currents maps are right, the wreckage is probably near the Spratly Islands - which is a bag of diplomatic hurt, as you can read in the Wikipedia article.

I can't remember exactly but I think it was Singapore controlling it on last contact.

Then again. the map shows SSR regions which may or may not coincide with Control Areas.

[Edited 2014-03-12 19:39:31]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
stuyyz
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:09 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:32 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 35):
What makes you think Malaysian authorities had any idea on day 1 that they had a recording of an unidentified possible aircraft primary radar contact?

They obviously knew it as soon as they started SAR in the Adaman Sea. They wouldn't have been able to make the case to deploy the resources there without at least that evidence. Pretty well everyone one here was saying they must know something they're not telling the general public as soon as the SAR in the Adaman Sea was disclosed.

Quoting gulfstream650 (Reply 54):
Is there an upcoming pres conference?

5pm, and 'apparently' there is "key information to tell the general public" [source: twitter]
 
Enobar
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:57 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am

In situations like this, do other airlines not directly involved but operating flight paths in the region actively direct their crews to monitor the waters for debris or would they be too high anyway? I know a CX crew identified a potential field but I am wondering if they do this as a courtesy, or are actually acting on company orders.
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am

Our radio news just said that the aeroplane was seen at intervals on radar, tracking well to the north-west, over the Malayan Peninsula (way off track). But then they lost contact again, and still have no ideas to speak of as to where it finished up.

I only caught the tail-end of the radio report - I'll post anything new that I get from here.

PS more information here - the Chinese might have found wreckage.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/

[Edited 2014-03-12 19:39:35]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6980
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:38 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 84):
Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 81):
found this strange, both planespotters.net & airfleets.net have the aircraft as written-off.

In planespotters case they even have notations that it CRASHED, whereas airlinefleet have it as disappeared.

http://www.planespotters.net/Product...28420,9M-MRO-Malaysia-Airlines.php

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b777-28420.htm

Somewhat premature, definitely.

Agreed. I was looking through planespotters yesterday and thought it was a bit premature to have MRO removed from the MH fleet list...

[Edited 2014-03-12 19:40:03]
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
jcxroberts
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:41 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:38 am

China is backing off the images ?

" Li Jiaxiang, chief of the Civil Aviation Administration of China told media a short time ago they can not confirm the debris photographed has anything to do with flight MH370."
 
jcxroberts
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:41 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17

Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:42 am

Quoting Nav20 (Reply 99):
Our radio news just said that the aeroplane was seen at intervals on radar, tracking well to the north-west, over the Malayan Peninsula (way off track). But then they lost contact again, and still have no ideas to speak of as to where it finished up.

That would be Thailand then ? They would have spotted it.

I think the oil rig engineer's description remains the strongest.

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