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Starlionblue
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:21 am

Quoting AY-MD11 (Reply 91):

If the plane was hijacked or the pilot/pilots was the hijacker then the engine data that show it flying for 4-5 hours,maybe they try to fool the investigators.
What if they landed somewhere and left the engines running for hours in ground. Does the engine data show the power/rpm too?

If it didn't it would be pretty useless to RR and MH I think.

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 93):
Aircraft was at 29.5 why 29.5? well it's below most commercial traffic and if you are not going for max range fairly fuel efficient and lowers your exposure to primary radar returns at long range just a bit.

As was mentioned before, 29500 is quite logical whether you are talking hijacking or mechanical problems with no comms, or at least the "500" bit is. Since it is not a designated flight level so you run much less risk of a mid-air.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:21:40]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:21 am

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 52):
I think the reporter has connections to Boeing, so that would be a logical place where he got the information.

Andy Paztor, the author, is probably the finest mainstream aviation reporter in the industry. I worked with him after the Colgan accident at his request via a friend who is connected. I respect virtually no reporter when it comes to aviation reporting except for Andy. He was able to communicate effectively with me at a technical and a big picture level. If he wrote this, I trust that he is down a valid path.

Next up... We have an airplane that lost comm and turned off its transponder right at the FIR boundary after the hand off. I hate to say it, but that screams pilot involvement. At a FIR handoff in VHF and radar contact, radar service is terminated via the previous agency, but you're right back in it with the next controlling agency. It's too much of a coincidence for a hand off then loss of contact without a check in without a rain of fire, metal, and people in that general area.

The plot has thickened greatly... I bet the NSA/CIA/and so on has been far up Boeing's rear end for a good bit now trying to figure this out.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
CaliAtenza
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:21 am

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 93):

so lessee....RR says their motors turned for 4hrs after last contact per the WSJ. Hmmm
Aircraft was at 29.5 why 29.5? well it's below most commercial traffic and if you are not going for max range fairly fuel efficient and lowers your exposure to primary radar returns at long range just a bit.
Aircraft reportedly made course changes not on flight plan so pretty much leaves out incapacitated cockpit someone.
One other note...lot been said about minimal to near response to 'unknown targets' on radar not causing alarms...I would allow that perhaps because there is frequently unknown primary targets in the region....at night...
Still no word what, if anything, was onboard as cargo. Also no big public chatter of anyone of importance on the pax list.
As others have stated...too much not being said..

at this point i can imagine a special ops mission being planned (Delta Force, SEAL Team 6) to retake the plane if its found in some jungle somewhere. Crazy, that fiction might be actually not far from the truth.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:24:04]
 
laxboeingman
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:21 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 92):
Trent" is the model name of this RR engine type. RR engines are typically named for rivers in Britain.

Sorry, but thank you. It is very late here, so I just realized it was Trent RRs. My bad and that was a stupid mistake on my part.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 83):
but is the exact fuel load known yet?

I do not believe it is.
The opinions I post are mine and not of any organization I am affiliated with.
 
LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:24 am

Quoting KIAS (Reply 86):

For the reasons as above, I would think MAS would use gatelink for the summaries, which uses a WLAN connection on the ground, rather than transmit via ACARS

Then it's very unlikely that a summary report was received from the RR engines, and my theory is ruled out.
 
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Starlionblue
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:26 am

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 95):
1) What is the likelihood of a sudden meteorological condition affecting flight systems and instruments (including the transponder) on this aircraft?
e.g. lightning strike or volcanic ash (there was an eruption a few weeks ago in Indonesia I reckon).
Could they have caused similar or worse conditions to British Airways Flight 9 or KLM Flight 867, maybe in a sequence e.g. starting by disabling the transponder, then other things (maybe even disabling flight crew)?

Astronomically unlikely. No weather forecasts or reports indicate anything and no other aircraft on the route around that time noticed anything.

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 95):
2) Is there any chance for a massively powerful crash to virtually vaporize (and thus make fully disappear) any remaining part of the aircraft?

I don't think so. Even a massive explosion like TWA800 left large pieces intact. You'd need a truly massive bomb, or probably multiple bombs at different locations. Even then methinks you'd have pieces of stabilizer and wing left.

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 95):
3) This forum seems to be a largely international community and I recall that during many previous incidents (or other major forum topics) there were at least a few contributions to the discussion by locals, people located close to the incident, people with contacts to the airline, etc.
Well, I haven't come across any comments from Malaysia so far... I simply would be interested to hear more about what the local aviation enthusiasts/experts/pilots/etc think - provided that we actually have any members from there!
So, if you are out there, what do you think is going on?

He's not Malaysian, but mandala499, an Indonesian, has vast experience in this region and industry. His posts are always worth reading.

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 97):
Does anyone know what the applicable cutoff in flight time is for adding a third crew member. It seems like MH 370 might be pretty close to the threshold, not that that means anything in and of itself.

Depends on national regs but typically 8-10 hours flight time plus a few more for the total duty time.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:28:38]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
laxboeingman
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:28 am

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 96):
You might want to spend more time carefully reading these threads.

You are right and I do. I did not expect to be on here this long and as I mentioned it is late for me.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 98):
It's almost as if you can't rule anything out.

I agree with that and my mind is opening even more to ideas that I thought were crazy two days ago.
The opinions I post are mine and not of any organization I am affiliated with.
 
aftgaffe
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:28 am

Didn't see this before from WSJ:

“The disappearance is officially now an accident and all information about this is strictly handled by investigators,” said another Rolls-Royce executive, citing rules by the International Civil Aviation Organization, a United Nations agency. The executive declined to be named.


"Officially now an accident."
 
KIAS
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:29 am

Quoting AY-MD11 (Reply 91):
What if they landed somewhere and left the engines running for hours in ground. Does the engine data show the power/rpm too?


They would know.

Engine sensors on the Trent 800 include:
- Inlet pressure / temp
- Shaft speeds
- Vibration
- Turbofan power ratio
- Gas temp
- HP / LP delivery pressure
- more...

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:30:34]
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
CaliAtenza
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:29 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 105):

Then it's very unlikely that a summary report was received from the RR engines, and my theory is ruled out.

so data was being sent after the transponder turned off, for about 4-5 hours, from the engines...but then that data stopped? Is that what the timeline is now?
 
LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:30 am

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 108):



"Officially now an accident."

I believe "now" should be "not".

Other accounts have it as "not an accident."
 
laxboeingman
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:30 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 105):

Quoting KIAS (Reply 86):

For the reasons as above, I would think MAS would use gatelink for the summaries, which uses a WLAN connection on the ground, rather than transmit via ACARS

Then it's very unlikely that a summary report was received from the RR engines, and my theory is ruled out.

If the plane was brought down in a remote area, but the area was home to a group that used WiFi, then it could be possible.
The opinions I post are mine and not of any organization I am affiliated with.
 
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BoeingVista
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:30 am

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 89):
He is claiming that he has insider information that the RR ACARS reports include an after-flight summary, implying the plane landed successfully. That goes a bit beyond "speculating."

It could as easily be that the final report was the fault condition of the engines running down through fuel exhaustion..
BV
 
LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:31 am

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 112):
If the plane was brought down in a remote area, but the area was home to a group that used WiFi, then it could be possible.

I doubt it would connect with any old wifi.

Perhaps if it can't connect via wifi, it reverts to the VHF link?

I dunno...
 
jcxroberts
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:32 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 61):
He has made several tweets about the purpose of whatever happened to the flight being "asset acquisition" of 20 employees of Freescale Semiconductor who were on the plane, i.e., hijack the plane, fly it somewhere, use those 20 to do...something...and then...hmm...

He's either suggesting: some nefarious fellows think Freescale doesn't make microchips but in fact makes superweapons so valuable that one should hijack an entire aircraft to force them into slave labor in a cave in the Tribal Regions...

Or, that Al Qaeda wants to expand into making transistor radios.

He thinks the plane landed in China.

Which reminds that the earliest report was that it landed in China. Then the report was retracted.

Freescale has a lot of classified work with DoD

He's clearly connected if you go through his twitter, but that doesn't make him right.
 
LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:33 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 113):
It could as easily be that the final report was the fault condition of the engines running down through fuel exhaustion..

Meaning a crash?

But the tone of the reports seems to be toward a landing somewhere.
 
aftgaffe
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:33 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 111):
I believe "now" should be "not".

Other accounts have it as "not an accident."

The *not an accident* is what the WSJ originally reported but they corrected it to *accident*.

Top
 
KIAS
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:36 am

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 112):
If the plane was brought down in a remote area, but the area was home to a group that used WiFi, then it could be possible.

No, gatelink services don't work that way. It's not like a mobile phone, for example, which is constantly searching for WiFi networks. These are secure, proprietary solutions.

For example, see GateFusion - http://www.arinc.com/sectors/aviatio...ine/communications/gatefusion.html
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:36 am

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 117):
The *not an accident* is what the WSJ originally reported but they corrected it to *accident*.

Well, that typo was not helpful...
 
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Aesma
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:36 am

I woke up to this ACARS "information/news/speculation", I'm really surprised it took so long to get investigated, especially considering what happened with AF447 !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
aftgaffe
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:37 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 119):
Well, that typo was not helpful...

Agree! RR must have flipped out when they saw that. Here's the article with correction:

 
CaliAtenza
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:40 am

http://translate.google.com/translat...iakini.com%2Fnews%2F256954&act=url

Pilot activated the code "Tango"---code for hijacking or confiscation. Sounds pretty far-fetched but at this rate all we can do is throw something up on the wall and see if it sticks.
 
slinky09
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:41 am

If the engines had recorded data post-landing, and transmitted that then this is the most fascinating detail to emerge - albeit has it been confirmed by anyone other than the WSJ report?

I didn't see answered yet, but would that transmission occur post-landing or 'close to' landing? If post then we have to assume it is down somewhere largely intact, if prior then that could still be a crash scenario.

Secondly, if ACARS was off (deliberately or otherwise) does that mean the transponders are off too? Otherwise how would the engine data have been transmitted, are there independent transponders in the engines for example?

Be great for some 777 savvy folk to help enlighten.
 
trent900
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:46 am

Morning everyone. I've been trying to keep upto date with the thread with difficulty due to it's speed.

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 33):
crap at maps, but according to MH own website the 772 cruises @ 0.84 Mach/897kmh, so lets base a few cities on 5 hours @ 850kmh = 4250km

First up

Colombo is 2458
Kabul is 4833 so that's out
Pyongyang 4657 so that's out
Mogadishu, Somalia is 6265 so that's out
Yemen is 6030 so that's out
Tehran, Iran is 6291 so that's out
Sochi is 7537 so that's out
Kiev, Ukraine is 8411 so that's out

unless it flew for longer than 5 hours, it's potential max Range is around 12,779 km...in which case all of the above are within range

I issue I have with this theory is the aircraft would not have this available range due to its potential lower FL.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 59):
About the WSJ story, is it implying the radar or transmitter was turned off during flight?

If the 'aircrafts' radar and transponder where turned off you would still receive a radar return from a ground based station, just without craft info.

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 93):
Aircraft was at 29.5 why 29.5? well it's below most commercial traffic and if you are not going for max range fairly fuel efficient and lowers your exposure to primary radar returns at long range just a bit.

This makes me wonder how low the aircraft would have to be flown to stay out of reach of any radar station in the area. If they had flown on for even 1000nm I'm sure someone would have picked up a return?

D.
 
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BoeingVista
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:47 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 116):
But the tone of the reports seems to be toward a landing somewhere.

I don't get that from the article.

But this whole thing is very confusing, the RR monitoring guys must have read the newspapers and checked the system more or less immediatly, if the data said MH370 was on the ground and fine don't you think they would have passed this information on to somebody?
BV
 
LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:47 am

Okay, so nother possibility is that the RR system sent a report when the engines ran out of fuel in flight. That should generate data reports as the engines fail.

That would mean a crash wherever it ran out of fuel.

That seems most likely.
 
CaliAtenza
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:49 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 125):
I don't get that from the article.

But this whole thing is very confusing, the RR monitoring guys must have read the newspapers and checked the system more or less immediatly, if the data said MH370 was on the ground and fine don't you think they would have passed this information on to somebody?

what if they passed it on and the location is being kept secret? I don't know, with the way things are going, we will all wake up Thursday morning with Breaking News that the Plane has been found and ransom demands are being made....
 
airbuster
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:49 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 123):
Secondly, if ACARS was off (deliberately or otherwise) does that mean the transponders are off too? Otherwise how would the engine data have been transmitted, are there independent transponders in the engines for example?

The data stream from the engines sent via ACARS cannot (in my experience) be turned off by anyone on the flight deck in flight. It is however possible for ACARS to lose a connection but I believe the 777 ACARS uses a mix of ground based and satellite signals to make the chances of this happening very remote.

The transponder used for SSR is a complete separate system.
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LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:51 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 125):
I don't get that from the article.

But this whole thing is very confusing, the RR monitoring guys must have read the newspapers and checked the system more or less immediatly, if the data said MH370 was on the ground and fine don't you think they would have passed this information on to somebody?

Yeah, the tone was retracted after my post. WSJ changed "not an accident" to "now an accident".

I don't know what's going on with the ACARS reports. It's confusing.

Maybe it took time to get and verify the data?
 
CaliAtenza
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:52 am

Going with the theory that there was a decompression/hypoxic event; how would the transponder switch off in that case?
 
nm2582
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:52 am

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 103):
at this point i can imagine a special ops mission being planned (Delta Force, SEAL Team 6) to retake the plane if its found in some jungle somewhere. Crazy, that fiction might be actually not far from the truth.

Why? The 777 is not a technological asset per se (it's not like a stolen military prototype jet); if it's found in "some jungle somewhere" it will probably never fly again. The only thing you'd be fighting for is the passengers, if they are still alive. The plane would have to be capable of reaching a usable runway to even begin thinking about recovering it. There might be a slightly higher chance of sending in a team to recover just the FDR/CVR to see "what happened", but if you find the aircraft in the jungle of a foreign country...well, most of the story is right there. It was "planejacked".

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 115):
He thinks the plane landed in China.

I struggle with this one. China is not at all above espionage, cyber warfare, etc.; but this would be INCREDIBLY brazen if it were a government sponsored plan. It would be right up there with Russia's entering of Crimea... They would bring the condemnation of the world down upon themselves. 20 Freescale employees - and the contents of their laptops - might be incredibly valuable, but not enough to take a 777 like this.
 
hamiltondaniel
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:55 am

One thing to keep in mind as hijack theories seem increasingly likely:

The most complex hijacking operation in history, September 11th, was still fairly simple. It involved box cutters and small knives and relied on passengers not attempting to retake the aircraft. Even then, they hit three of four intended targets, they did not account for flight delays that cause United 93 to take off much later than the other flights, none of the planes were in the air after the hijackings for very long, and the operation rested much less on sophistication than on exploiting obvious weaknesses in American security screenings.

If MH370 has been hijacked with an intent to repurpose the aircraft for some later attack, that is so far beyond September 11th in terms of sophistication, complexity, planning, difficulty, training required, resources required, etc., that it boggles the mind. I am not saying such a plot is impossible; but for it to be executed this well, such that the aircraft has simply vanished, the group carrying out this attack would need to be far more advanced and sophisticated than Al Qaeda was on September 10th, 2001. To the best of our knowledge, no group anywhere in the world even comes close to that. I doubt if most militaries could even accomplish the feat without error.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:57:18]
 
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Finn350
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:58 am

Guys, the plane is hijacked in China. Everything else is smokescree.
 
CaliAtenza
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:59 am

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 131):

Why? The 777 is not a technological asset per se (it's not like a stolen military prototype jet); if it's found in "some jungle somewhere" it will probably never fly again. The only thing you'd be fighting for is the passengers, if they are still alive. The plane would have to be capable of reaching a usable runway to even begin thinking about recovering it. There might be a slightly higher chance of sending in a team to recover just the FDR/CVR to see "what happened", but if you find the aircraft in the jungle of a foreign country...well, most of the story is right there. It was "planejacked".

By retake the plane i meant maybe the passengers are being kept on the plane as some sort of bargaining chip for who knows what; hence "retaking the plane" would involve rescuing the passengers. But now with RR officially saying this is an accident, i think we can put all our wild speculation to rest...
 
slinky09
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:00 am

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 131):
I struggle with this one. China is not at all above espionage, cyber warfare, etc.; but this would be INCREDIBLY brazen if it were a government sponsored plan. It would be right up there with Russia's entering of Crimea... They would bring the condemnation of the world down upon themselves. 20 Freescale employees - and the contents of their laptops - might be incredibly valuable, but not enough to take a 777 like this.

I can't beleive that for a moment either ... in any case, good old laptop bag theft is much easier!
 
JimJupiter
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:01 am

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 115):
He thinks the plane landed in China.

Which reminds that the earliest report was that it landed in China. Then the report was retracted.

There was speculation of an emergency landing in Nanjing. But how would this stay unnoticed at a major airport? Plus: If it had continued its way to China, Vietnamese military should have a radar track all along its territory, so much more to work with than the lonely "blip" the Malaysian military is investigating in the Andaman sea.
One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
 
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garpd
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:01 am

I wish people would stop suggesting hypoxia/ slow de-pressurisation as a likely cause. This theory has a single. serious, flaw: It does not explain the lack of transponder data, ACARS or Radar return.
I think we can rule that scenario out immediately. Besides, the 777 is far more sophisticated than the 737, it's pressurisation systems just would not let the pilots think it is all OK while gently sending them off into a hypoxic coma.
Also, if there was a more sudden de pressurisation event, the pilots would don their masks. There are no ifs and buts. The second a de pressurisation is suspected, even a first year pilot cadet knows to put their mask on! Even if they were nitwits and didn't do so, it STILL doesn't explain the total lack of data from the aircraft.

Move one people!
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asteriskceo
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:02 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 135):
But now with RR officially saying this is an accident, i think we can put all our wild speculation to rest...

I don't understand how they can say, officially, that this is an accident. Why can't they just come out and tell us why they have come to this conclusion?
 
CaliAtenza
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:03 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 139):

I wish people would stop suggesting hypoxia/ slow de-pressurisation as a likely cause. This theory has a single. serious, flaw: It does not explain the lack of transponder data, ACARS or Radar return.
I think we can rule that scenario out immediately. Besides, the 777 is far more sophisticated than the 737, it's pressurisation systems just would not let the pilots think it is all OK while gently sending them off into a hypoxic coma.
Also, if there was a more sudden de pressurisation event, the pilots would don their masks. There are no ifs and buts. The second a de pressurisation is suspected, even a first year pilot cadet knows to put their mask on! Even if they were nitwits and didn't do so, it STILL doesn't explain the total lack of data from the aircraft.

Move one people!

so then we are back to the hijack/terrorism angle....if the engines kept sending out data for 4-5 hours; and the transponder was still off...then what?
 
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BoeingVista
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:04 am

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 133):
Guys, the plane is hijacked in China. Everything else is smokescree.

That does actually make sense, if it was seperatists China would not admit it unless they had too. They would rather it be written off as a crash mystery and heap blame on the Malaysians.

So.. Do we have any A.net eyes on the airport where it was first rumoured the plane landed?
BV
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:08 am

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 13):
Some of you guys are great at making maps. Can someone make a map with a radius from the last know point showing how far this plane could have flown if it did fly 5 hours more. That would help a lot of us visualize up to where this plane could have gone.

Here are some cities that are within and outside the possible range:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=NAW-LHW...SG=.84&SU=mach&E=240&EV=389&EU=kts
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slinky09
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:08 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 141):
so then we are back to the hijack/terrorism angle....if the engines kept sending out data for 4-5 hours; and the transponder was still off...then what?

Since anything is possible, perhaps there was a fuselage crack that depressurized AND damaged comms equipment?
 
LTC8K6
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:13 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 144):
Since anything is possible, perhaps there was a fuselage crack that depressurized AND damaged comms equipment?

Since 9M-MRO was not part of that AD, why would we have a fuselage crack? What would crack it?
 
philask
Posts: 34
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:16 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 144):
Since anything is possible, perhaps there was a fuselage crack that depressurized AND damaged comms equipment?

So where's the debris?
 
speedbird128
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:16 am

No, less than that step... I think there were reports of blue suede shoes earlier...

Quoting trent900 (Reply 124):
If the 'aircrafts' radar and transponder where turned off you would still receive a radar return from a ground based station, just without craft info.

The "radar" on an aircraft in the nose is exclusively for weather. It has no other purpose. The transponder getting turned off would result in it disappearing from MSSR antennae. It would also render it invisible to other aircraft on their TCAS, as these functions are tied together.

The "ground based station" you refer to, would be a PSR (primary surveillance radar) and civilian versions of this are very low range affairs, designed to cover only around 50nm or so around an airport. There may be HUGE areas of countries with no primary surveillance radar coverage.

Military grade systems are entirely different and I don't really have time to explain them. But they are thousands of times more advanced than their civilian counterparts and it is this type of system that was able to track an aircraft without a transponder and is able to provide both distance and altitude information.

[Edited 2014-03-13 14:18:00 by SA7700]
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flyingturtle
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:17 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 122):

A "tango" code - never heard since I'm here lurking on a.nut. Maybe it's company-internal lingo?



But its interesting to see some little developments on the story (ACARS data, Boeing and RR).

I want to say thank you all the contributors on our wiki. Of course I'll continue updating this wiki if new trusted or speculative information pops up or already debunked claims are repeated.

Let me also thank rcair1 for letting me steal his very comprehensive summary back in thread 16.



David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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garpd
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:19 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 141):
so then we are back to the hijack/terrorism angle

To be honest, that has been my main suspicion for a while now.

If you think about it, it makes sense: Pull circuit breakers to turn off all transmissions from the plane, so you essentially become invisible. And head off where ever you want. Only I suspect either something went wrong and they crashed, or they intentionally ditched/crashed.

My biggest fear is, if the transponder, ACARS, etc were intentionally turned off, the FDR and CVR circuit breakers could also have been pulled. If so, we may never know the exact sequence of event.

The Silkair 737 had it's circuit breakers for the CVR and FDR pulled right after the co-pilot left for the toilet. So, it is not in the realms of fantasy to suggest it!
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jcxroberts
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:41 pm

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:22 am

And go where ?

There's nowhere really to go. Unless a state actor is involved.
 
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777Jet
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:23 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 142):
Quoting Finn350 (Reply 133):
Guys, the plane is hijacked in China. Everything else is smokescree.

That does actually make sense, if it was seperatists China would not admit it unless they had too. They would rather it be written off as a crash mystery and heap blame on the Malaysians.

It could also explain the way China is acting towards Malaysia in the media, acting very annoyed and saying Malaysia is not doing enough. Of course the Chinese would be annoyed if this is an accident, but if they are in on it why not act like the victim to draw attention to others...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
CaliAtenza
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:23 am

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 147):
Military grade systems are entirely different and I don't really have time to explain them. But they are thousands of times more advanced than their civilian counterparts and it is this type of system that was able to track an aircraft without a transponder and is able to provide both distance and altitude information.

then if the plane did fly for 4-5 hours, surely military radar would have picked it up?

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