MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18

Thunderboltdrgn · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:22 am

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 197):
The captain was on his flight simulator at home a lot, on trial missions? If the plane flew towards the Indian Ocean, and e.g. towards Somalia/Yemen, how many hours of flying it needs? 6? Did the captain maybe use the 777 as a glider into some location? We know that an aircraft is a glider (remember the TS A330 to Acores), it can glide for a long long time (did the captain try this on his simulator?)

Just a thought..

at mach .84 it's 7 hours to the Sana'a (El Rahaba Intl)], capital of Yemen;
about the same for Mogadishu, capital of Somalia.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=NAW-LHW...SG=.84&SU=mach&E=240&EV=389&EU=kts

speedbird128 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:23 am

No, how about this one? It was probably done to see what we would come up with on a.net...

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 201):
Or under the water, possibly on the ocean floor...

Extremely unlikely to have no floating debris left behind...

kevinkevin · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:24 am

Rolls Royce has said the engines stopped sending data the same time ATC lost contact with MH370. Sky News have just reported.

MillwallSean · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:24 am

This is a development I dint see coming. Baffled. Perplexed.

Have we yet seen the cargo manifest or gotten definite answers for how much fuel that was put onboard?

I I find even the idea that China, or for that sake any other country, has taken the plane ludicrous. Lets, besides the fact that China's government acts rationally, not forget the plane was going to Beijing. They could have taken anything they so wanted at the airport, from cargo to laptops to people. They aren't going to steal a B777 and have its passengers disappear. That just isn't realistic and would involve to many people and to much logistics.

Unfortunately i see greater possibility in one pilot or pilot trained passenger sailing off into the sunset either not wanting to knock on heavens door himself or wanting the world to remember him and his flight and search for it like they have done for Amelia Earhartt. His seconds of fame set to last an eternity.

But with this story, anything can happen.

It also puts the 200 NM northwest of Penang in a possibly more interesting light.

flood · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:25 am

Just a heads up, press conference scheduled to begin in 5 minutes or so, provided no further delay.
http://www.astroawani.com/

senliture · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:27 am

Quoting ThunderboltDrgn (Reply 203):
at mach .84 it's 7 hours to the Sana'a (El Rahaba Intl)], capital of Yemen;
about the same for Mogadishu, capital of Somalia.

It won't has 7 hours flight distance if it flew low to avoid radar. Engines effeciency are very different at low attitude and they burn a lot more fuel.

wjcandee · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:27 am

Look. It's as simple as this. Appealing to folks who like high-concept, low-tech attacks.

You steal the plane. You fly it somewhere comfortable. You take care of the passengers/hostages. You tell the world that you have fitted it with nukes and 200 hostages of all nations. You put it back in the air, and fly it somewhere important. Do the authorities of that country shoot it down when it may have only innocents aboard, and no nukes. Or must you assume it has nukes?

A real challenge. That we pay our leaders to decipher.

SKAirbus · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:27 am

Isn't there meant to be a press conference soon?

speedbird128 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:29 am

Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 205):
Rolls Royce has said the engines stopped sending data the same time ATC lost contact with MH370. Sky News have just reported.

I cannot write what I am thinking...

Owleye · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:29 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 201):
Nothing can be ruled out. The Kiwi might have even been encouraged or forced to make up this as to intentionally mislead the investigation...

Has this guy been checked?

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:31:33]

theaviator380 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:30 am

As lot of people coming with Drone or Stealth theory..that either crashed with MH370. Okay for a min let's think that's what happened but whose Drone and whose Stealth we talking about? or Malaysian Drone ( I doubt they have Stealth bomber)...and is it the reason why other countries (Barring China, Vietnam) keeping all quiet? Just genuine question, no attempt to hurt anyone.

SKAirbus · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:31 am

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 211):
I cannot write what I am thinking...

Beam me up scotty?

It's perplexing. The wreckage must be somewhere!!!

777Jet · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:32 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 210):
Isn't there meant to be a press conference soon?

About to start... Also being shown on ABC News 24 in Australia...

http://english.astroawani.com/videos/live

Owleye · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:33 am

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 213):
As lot of people coming with Drone or Stealth theory..that either crashed with MH370. Okay for a min let's think that's what happened but whose Drone and whose Stealth we talking about? or Malaysian Drone ( I doubt they have Stealth bomber)...and is it the reason why other countries (Barring China, Vietnam) keeping all quiet? Just genuine question, no attempt to hurt anyone.

When it flew in western direction over the Strait of Malakka (like locals, fishermen and Malaysian radar tell us), it might flew to Diego Garcia?

pvjin · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:34 am

Quoting senliture (Reply 208):
It won't has 7 hours flight distance if it flew low to avoid radar. Engines effeciency are very different at low attitude and they burn a lot more fuel.

No need to fly low in middle of Indian Ocean.

Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 205):
Rolls Royce has said the engines stopped sending data the same time ATC lost contact with MH370. Sky News have just reported.

Is it even possible for pilots to stop the engines from sending data?

asteriskceo · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:35 am

They are claiming that the earlier WSJ claims are false.

nm2582 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:35 am

news conference stating that news that the plane flew for 4-5 hours is "inaccurate".

B747forever · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:35 am

Just said on the press conference that the reports about the engines sending data for +4hours are incorrect.

JimJupiter · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:35 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 215):
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 210):
Isn't there meant to be a press conference soon?

About to start... Also being shown on ABC News 24 in Australia...

http://english.astroawani.com/videos/live

For those of us who can't follow it on TV or anything: Would somebody be so kind and post a summary on here? Thanks.

And, please: Could we give the James Bond scenarios a rest for a minute? It's difficult enough to follow this thread already. Tanks as well.

777Jet · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:36 am

Confirmation that the reports of the plane flying on for hours based on engine monitoring data are incorrect. Both RR and Boeing confirmed this to MH.

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:38:33]

nm2582 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:37 am

the news conference is indicating a high degree of involvement with the NTSB and FAA.

RickNRoll · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:37 am

Is there anything about this story that is correct?

777Jet · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:37 am

Reports that homes of pilots searched are not true also...

nm2582 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:38 am

also according to news conference - reports that police visited the homes of the pilots is false...

NAV20 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:38 am

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 188):
there are so many stored jets out there, in places with more or less security, that it would probably much easier to get one of those than trying to pinch one out of active operations...

Point is, though, JimJupiter, that any such aeroplane would not be fully serviced and would certainly not have fuel in any quantity on board? If you wanted something that could reliably go a long distance, you'd have to grab an 'aircraft in service'?

Interesting new angle here - apparently people telephoning affected relatives are hearing (unanswered) ring tones. Apparently that couldn't happen if said relatives were at the bottom of the sea?

Doesn't mean that they're alive, though............

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/03...ysian-plane-incident-linked-to-911

Thunderboltdrgn · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:39 am

Quoting senliture (Reply 208):
It won't has 7 hours flight distance if it flew low to avoid radar. Engines effeciency are very different at low attitude and they burn a lot more fuel.

Yes I know.

flood · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:40 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 222):
Confirmation that the reports of the planes flying on for hours based on engine monitoring data are wrong. Both RR and Boeing confirmed this to MH.

Good on them for having cleared that up right off the bat at the press conference.

How things change... looks like we're back to the oil rig guy and a hijacking seems far less likely again.

asteriskceo · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:40 am

The spokesman is taking a defensive tone. "Malaysia has nothing to hide."

nm2582 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:41 am

news conference over. nothing new offered.

edit: they are moving on to the question phase now. my feed froze.

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:41:50]

mileage · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:42 am

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 115):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 61):
He has made several tweets about the purpose of whatever happened to the flight being "asset acquisition" of 20 employees of Freescale Semiconductor who were on the plane, i.e., hijack the plane, fly it somewhere, use those 20 to do...something...and then...hmm...

He's either suggesting: some nefarious fellows think Freescale doesn't make microchips but in fact makes superweapons so valuable that one should hijack an entire aircraft to force them into slave labor in a cave in the Tribal Regions...

Or, that Al Qaeda wants to expand into making transistor radios.

He thinks the plane landed in China.

Which reminds that the earliest report was that it landed in China. Then the report was retracted.

Freescale has a lot of classified work with DoD

He's clearly connected if you go through his twitter, but that doesn't make him right.

There would be many easier ways to make such an "acquisition" on the ground.... such as hijacking their taxi/bus!

9VSIO · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:42 am

Interesting that they have shared the raw data from their military radar with selected countries....

777Jet · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:42 am

MAS also said that Malaysia has released radar data that it would not normally release because this investigation is more important than protecting the capabilities of Malaysia in terms of national security (words to that effect).

Starlionblue · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:43 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 217):
Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 205):
Rolls Royce has said the engines stopped sending data the same time ATC lost contact with MH370. Sky News have just reported.

Is it even possible for pilots to stop the engines from sending data?

Yes it is. You can pull the breakers in the electronics bay.

Quoting Nav20 (Reply 227):
teresting new angle here - apparently people telephoning affected relatives are hearing (unanswered) ring tones. Apparently that couldn't happen if said relatives were at the bottom of the sea?

This was debunked about three days ago. Due to the nature of cell phone comms, the system will "fake" a ring tone back to the caller so you won't get dead air while you are waiting for the call to connect.

speedbird128 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:44 am

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 224):

Is there anything about this story that is correct?

-Plane vanished. Last ACARS message was 0107 local time. WSJ reports of it flying for hours incorrect. RR statement aligned with this press briefing.
-NTSB & FAA well involved.
-Malaysia has handed over raw military radar data to intl partners (USA/China etc) for help to analyse. They say national security will not be placed above the importance of the missing plane.
-Tomorrow will have a technical capability briefing of the SAR assets

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:46:35]

garpd · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:45 am

Back to square one: We know nothing more than a 777 is missing, presumed crashed.

B747forever · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:47 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 237):
Back to square one: We know nothing more than a 777 is missing, presumed crashed.

Same thing after every press conference.

456 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:48 am

Much better news conference today... At least the transport minister is more understandable.

Why dont they have such update twice a day to clear up more rumors instead of the (media?) spread of not valid statemetns(ACARS/debris etc).
They only need to keep it to english only imho.

speedbird128 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:50 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 238):
Same thing after every press conference.

I personally don't believe it is due to the lack of trying.

And I feel for these guys - English is clearly not their native language, and I imagine that a fair few unintentioal misunderstandings have occurred in the past...

They also stated in the Q&A sessions they have asked neighbours for radar data to aid in tracking the aircraft...

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:57:03]

KIAS · Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:56 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 217):
Is it even possible for pilots to stop the engines from sending data?

The engine data is sent via ACARS, which could be disabled through catastrophic event or manual intervention. To shut off ACARS manually someone would have to enter the E/E bay via the main deck access panel.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 220):

Just said on the press conference that the reports about the engines sending data for +4hours are incorrect.

Not surprised to hear this!

slinky09 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:00 am

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 231):
news conference over. nothing new offered.

Although very defensive in tone there were some nuggets:

- The transport and defense minister was adamant that the plane did not fly on for four+ hours, in addition to the fact that the last ACARS data was transmitted at 1:07 local time (per the head of MAS). He said RR and Boeing were in Kuala Lumpur and corroborated that.
- The plane complied with all servicing requirements.
- The homes of the cockpit crew have not been searched.

I was watching on Sky News who had Eric Moody (BA pilot of 747 that suffered four engine failure over Indonesia) who said he believes something is being held back.

Some thoughts:

- If they are clear that the plane did not fly for four+ hours then how do they know? I wish the reporters present would think on their feet and ask such questions when they can - no one did (to my hearing although some was in Malay).
- Per Eric Moody, he said that one of his colleagues suggested an explosive decompression that would have left very small traces, making it very difficult to locate ... is this possible? Consider Pan Am 103, different, but very large pieces of the plane came to earth.
- Why would you not search the homes of the crew, just as a precaution to eliminate any activity on their part?

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:01:19]

B738FlyUIA · Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:01 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 237):
Back to square one: We know nothing more than a 777 is missing, presumed crashed.

True and all more will know when they find the missing plane. I hope to find out more about those pieces they found floating in the water.

liquidair · Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:02 am

I still hope the plane landed. Far fetched, unlikely and very Hollywood.

but it would mean the 239 missing might still be alive.... And thats something we'd all like to believe.

we have an expression in Italy..... Hope is always the last to die.

I'm curious to elaborate on what the alleged RR employee said.... About it being an accident. In terms of official use, does it exclusively mean accident, or can it also refer to an incident?

garpd · Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:02 am

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 240):
I personally don't believe it is due to the lack of trying.

And I feel for these guys

Agreed. These people are surely doing their best in a language clearly not of their own.
And they are perhaps overwhelmed with the astounding pressure from the world's press.

The press are pushy at the best of times. Every one wants to be the first with some sort of new information. They'll pressure anyone into saying something!
They should be held on a leesh and told the back the heck off and let these people try and focus on finding the aircraft.

9VSIO · Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:03 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 242):
If they are clear that the plane did not fly for four+ hours then how do they know?

I'm sure he said that the engines stopped transmitting at the same time they lost contact, not that the a/c did not continue flying beyond that.

slinky09 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:03 am

I should say that Eric Moody's comment about something being held back was based on information he received from a Boeing employee seventeen years after his near catastrophe that the US was able to, and was actively, tracking his plane and knew it had turned back ... information not revealed at the time (for probably very obvious reasons). But if the US could do this in 1984 ... what now I wonder!

777Jet · Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:04 am

I'm still listening to the press conference. Here is what I am hearing.

Asked when the aircraft went missing, the last transmission was at 0107 at the handover from Malaysia ATC to Vietnam ATC - which we know. What I find interesting is that it went missing right at the time of the ATC handover???

Also, MAS just gave a brief statement about their ACARS for those interested: 'ACARS is programmed to be triggered by certain events - eg: an aborted takeoff will trigger ACARS messages.'

Also, MAS said there is a possibility of a turn back based on the military radar, however, the military radar data does not identify what type of plane it was tracking. Malaysia is asking all countries in the area to supply radar data that could help. MAS just said MAS does have full confidence in their radar equipment. The FAA has full confidence in Malaysian radar equipment which has been supplied by the USA and China.

Also, MAS says anything is possible when asked "is it possible for anyone to manually turn of the monitoring system that transmits from the engines?".

I know this has been discussed before but I'm just summarizing what I'm hearing from MAS.

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:07:02]

theaviator380 · Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:05 am

Do you guys think MAS could be in trouble if they get lawsuit filed against them? not only publicity wise but financially?

Thunderboltdrgn · Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:05 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 242):
- If they are clear that the plane did not fly for four+ hours then how do they know?

I think it could be something of misunderstanding and that they merely is saying
that they don't have any evidence of it flying for those 4+ hours.

9VSIO · Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:05 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 242):
Why would you not search the homes of the crew, just as a precaution to eliminate any activity on their part?

I see the point you're trying to make, but what if the search turns up nothing? Does one start searching the homes of the passengers? Imagine the backlash!

AirIndia · Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:06 am

Quoting philask (Reply 182):
Said as someone who knows nothing about the Maldives... seriously, you think nobody would notice at such a busy international airport?

Well said. Just because it is an islamic country it is not expected to be party to such a conspiracy. Besides, the area is not an isolated dark territory, it is heavily under surveillance by the Indians.

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