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davs5032
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:12 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:03 pm

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 28):
What time was "all right good night"

I believe it was at 1:21 if I remember correctly.
 
rcair1
Posts: 1147
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:06 pm

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 43):
But that doesn't answer why there was engine information data bursts sent via satellite to Rolls Royce for four or five HOURS after the transponder went silent.


There were not - please read the section of my post.
Quoting rcair1 (Reply 31):
* SATCOM Pings:
Quoting flyenthu (Reply 45):
Looks like the two transponders went off separately and not at once, thus indicating not a catastrophic systems failure. This is per ABC nightly news.

Can you provide a source. How 'seperately' in time? Seconds? Minutes? How do they know?
- You do not have 2 transponders in operation at the same time, they would compete (?) (never flown a plane with 2)
- Can you even tell that you have to different transponders? I think the signal they send is the same (identical)

[Edited 2014-03-13 16:08:09]

[Edited 2014-03-13 16:09:37]
rcair1
 
flyenthu
Posts: 590
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:08 pm

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 45):

1:07AM : Data reporting system shuts down
1:21 AM: Transponder shuts down

ABC News Report
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:09 pm

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 45):
I don't know if this is already posted.... Looks like the two transponders went off separately and not at once, thus indicating not a catastrophic systems failure. This is per ABC nightly news.

They are saying ACARS(Data Reporting System) went down @1:07AM and Transponders @1:21AM. That could indicate electric fire.
All posts are just opinions.
 
TXspotter
Posts: 84
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:10 pm

In there anyway to see a wiring diagram of the 777, even a basic layout of where the wires physical run?

You could find where the all these failed systems are.

1. Locate the paths of all wires
2. Find a place in the physical diagram where these failed systems line up.
3. Mark where each wire would be cut based on time.
4. Trace back to from last system to fail to earliest system to fail and it'll guide you to the source of a fire or other anomaly.

Ex:
4 wires running horizontally from top to bottom on right hand side of cockpit
System red: top of cockpit right hand wall. Failed at 1:39am
System white: middle of cockpit right hand wall. Failed at 1:37am
System blue: near bottom of cockpit right hand wall. Failed at 1:30am
System yellow: floor of cockpit right hand wall. Failed at 1:26am

You could conclude there was a fire or problem in the bottom of this hypothetical cockpit that spread upward to the ceiling
 
456
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:11 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 51):
- You do not have 2 transponders in operation at the same time, they would compete.

I can imagine that when there are 2 (if!) transponders, they are also not on the same electrical power because of the redundency. And IF there was an electrical failure that therefor they have been shut down seperately.

Having wrote this down its rubbish- how can they know from the ground signals are coming from transponder 1 or 2 and that they have been turned down seperately??

[Edited 2014-03-13 16:12:39]
 
flyenthu
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:11 pm

My Reply 52 is right off TV screen. Disregard #45.
 
captainx
Posts: 126
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:12 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 53):
y are saying ACARS(Data Reporting System) went down @1:07AM and Transponders @1:21AM. That could indicate electric fire.

A fire, and then it flies on for 4-5 hours ... no way.
 
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Dalavia
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:12 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 53):
They are saying ACARS(Data Reporting System) went down @1:07AM and Transponders @1:21AM. That could indicate electric fire.

Are they really saying that ACARS(Data Reporting System) went down @1:07AM?

I thought they simply said that the last ACARS message was received (or maybe sent) at 1:07 am.

Presumably the system could still be operating, but because messages are sent at intermittent intervals, it may have been working but had nothing to report ???
 
rcair1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:12 pm

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 52):
1:07AM : Data reporting system shuts down
1:21 AM: Transponder shuts down

Incorrect.
1:07am - last transmission from ACARS.
But ACAR's transmissions are not continuous - so this does not mean ACARS shut down, just that this was the last time it sent anything. Nothing more would have been expected unless there was a problem with the engines, or at the end of flight report after landing.

1:21AM: This is correct, stopped transmitting (responding to radar inquiries) at this time.
rcair1
 
liquidair
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:14 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 53):

but... The acars... Shut down before the captain signed off from the ATC?

Eh? If true, that really only leaves two possibilities. But, there are two pilots and neither makes sense...

or are they maybe trying to say last acars was at 01.07- the next due 30 minutes later?
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
ukair
Posts: 269
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:15 pm

the daily mail is reporting that the FAA issued a warning about a flaw in some 777's to quote ..

' In an ‘airworthiness directive’ (AD) dated September 18 last year, airlines were given until April 9 this year to ‘detect and correct cracking and corrosion in the fuselage skin’ beneath the airliners' communications antennae.

Failure to fix the flaw could put the aircraft at risk of ‘a rapid decompression and loss of structural integrity of the airplane,’ said the FAA.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...0-vulnerable-mid-air-break-up.html

anyone else seen this?
 
ROSWELL41
Posts: 777
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:16 pm

I have not yet read any plausible scenario for mechanical failure. A hijacking would provide enough time to get out some type of distress signal. This was sabotage by one of the pilots - most likely the captain.
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:16 pm

A simple possibility maybe...a slowly professing fire in the electronics bay...is there boxes for the transponders and VHF radios in the Avionics bay where the ACARS system is located?
 
Wingtips56
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:17 pm

Quoting ukair (Reply 61):
the daily mail is reporting that the FAA issued a warning about a flaw in some 777's to quote ..

' In an ‘airworthiness directive’ (AD) dated September 18 last year, airlines were given until April 9 this year to ‘detect and correct cracking and corrosion in the fuselage skin’ beneath the airliners' communications antennae.

Failure to fix the flaw could put the aircraft at risk of ‘a rapid decompression and loss of structural integrity of the airplane,’ said the FAA.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...0-vulnerable-mid-air-break-up.html

anyone else seen this?

It's been around and around and around in these threads: it does not apply to this aircraft as it had different antennae configurations.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
456
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:17 pm

Quoting ukair (Reply 61):
anyone else seen this?

Yep and mentioned several times already in this thread  )
But this was not applicable for this 772.
 
captainx
Posts: 126
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:18 pm

Shutting off ACARS is like shutting off your PC ... the network (ISP) sees this but the ISP network link to your modem and router is still active.

[Edited 2014-03-13 16:19:42]

[Edited 2014-03-13 16:20:27]
 
tyler81190
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:28 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:18 pm

Quoting ukair (Reply 61):
anyone else seen this?

Been discussed, does not apply to this aircraft, as it uses a different antenna.

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 62):

I have not yet read any plausible scenario for mechanical failure. A hijacking would provide enough time to get out some type of distress signal. This was sabotage by one of the pilots - most likely the captain.

Why assuming just the Captain? It could be the FO, it COULD also be both...
 
flyenthu
Posts: 590
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:18 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 59):

I literally copied this right off the TV screen. This was on CNN, and they were citing ABC. I left out the text within paren.
 
nick33326
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:35 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:19 pm

This is my first post, though I've been a reader here for years.

While I'm growing more convinced that the plane has been landed somewhere, if they experienced some sort of technical problems, based upon everything I've read thus far, the most credible report IMHO is the one from the oil rig worker. A thorough search should be conducted east of Con Son Island. If the worker's observation is correct, and the plane was moving away from him, the pilots might have been attempting to reach Con Son, which has an airport (Con Dao Airport) with a 6000 ft. runway. From what I understand, at MLW a B777 needs a 5610 ft. runway to land. Perhaps they tried to make it there?

Considering all the contradictory information being put out by the authorities, however, I fear that this is more likely either; 1) a very sophisticated kidnapping in which the plane, crew and passengers are being held somewhere for a large ransom, or worse; 2) terrorists have taken this aircraft and plan to use it to deliver a payload of (chemical, biological or nuclear weapons?) to a large city, which could make attacks of 9/11 pale in comparison.

Whatever has happened and whatever the outcome, this is a horrible situation. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected. I can’t imagine what the family members are going through.
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:21 pm

Until the WSJ itself comes out and claims that the information regarding the engine monitoring data was incorrect, I will go with the idea that MAS and the authorities are not telling us everything they know and the plane did keep flying for some time. And I will start to think that the following scenarios are the most likely, especially given that the transponder just stopped transmitting during ATC handover and because not a single related debris has been found after searching for days around its last known location:

1- Pilot hijacking - Transponder turned off during handover (only the pilots know at what precise time this would be) and one pilot with his helpers flys the plane to a location within range and landed. Who knows what would be going on now.

2- Pilot suicide - Transponder turned off during handover (only the pilots know at what precise time this would be) and one pilot flys the plane to an area so far off course that it might never be found.

3- Hijacking - Hijackers enter the cockpit (maybe storm the area when a pilot opens the door to go to the toilet - possible if a FA was involved and let people into the door area). They turn the transponder off and fly to where ever they intend or crash the plane. The timing of the transponder going off is just a fluke.

4- Decompression leading to hypoxia - The plane depressurizes after a small hole opens in an area that would damage transmitting equipment, pilots set heading to turn back west towards Malaysia and set a low altitude. Pilots, for some reason, also are overcome by hypoxia. Plane continues flying west or south west at a low altitude until it runs out of fuel, somewhere in the middle of the Indian ocean - or even in the Pacific somewhere if the plane stayed on its current heading.

I still think that the transponder is the key clue. If transponders on other planes have failed before, how many of those planes went missing too? Also, why aren't MAS releasing the exact fuel load? If they know that the Captain requested hours more fuel than needed then I think they would still be trying to hide that information in order to save face until they absolutely needed to release the figures.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
William60
Posts: 13
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:21 pm

Been lurking, and now a member. Have learned a lot the past few days and my hat goes off to the many fine thinkers and posters here. Impressive, and insightful.

I am afraid this may well be a suicide mission, terrible and cowardly.

The manner in which the operator shunned communications, and, headed
for the vastness of the Indian Ocean, is troublesome.

If it falls under an act of terror, I think it may mark a new, or somewhat independent
approach.

Worldwide attention. Mystery. Loss of life. Fear/terror. No claims necessary.

It may also have been suicide caused by severe depression, and the avoidance
of detection, not wanting to be found, done to spare shame which might haunt
the operator's family.

God be with all those victimized by this tragedy.

Hope the search efforts can work what looks like a necessary miracle.
 
mcoatc
Posts: 173
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:21 pm

Quoting davidzill (Reply 63):
A simple possibility maybe...a slowly professing fire in the electronics bay...is there boxes for the transponders and VHF radios in the Avionics bay where the ACARS system is located?

And this same fire wouldn't create other faults that might generate an ACARS message prior to that system being disabled itself? The fire would have not allowed any radio transmissions, but the plane would have still been flyable for hours? Methinks not.
 
KIAS
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:25 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:25 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 70):
I still think that the transponder is the key clue. If transponders on other planes have failed before, how many of those planes went missing too?

Worth mentioning that just 3 days ago, Air India 127 (a 777-300ER) had its transponder fail 3 hours en route to Chicago. The aircraft turned back to Dehli.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...-take-off/articleshow/31776979.cms
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
flyenthu
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:26 pm

Also, this information #52, it appears is from Malaysian authorities, not US. May be with US assistance, but US is not apparently directly releasing these separate systems shutdown information.

[Edited 2014-03-13 16:30:38]
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:27 pm

Quoting KIAS (Reply 73):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 70):
I still think that the transponder is the key clue. If transponders on other planes have failed before, how many of those planes went missing too?

Worth mentioning that just 3 days ago, Air India 127 (a 777-300ER) had its transponder fail 3 hours en route to Chicago. The aircraft turned back to Dehli.

Exactly. The plane did not go missing like MH370...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
chrcaremanav
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:45 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:29 pm

Hi! Here is an article from Mr Ben Sandilands, what I like about Him, is that He is does not chew His words.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...uspicions-persist-despite-denials/

You can read His other articles also, They are very good.

Have a nice night or day where ever You are. Take care!
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:56 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:31 pm

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 21):
So where would they have landed, if they did ?

Here is a map with airfield locations:



I pulled the locations off of the interweb, so they are probably not complete...

link to live map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b52c362966934

SoCalGeo
 
KIAS
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:25 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:31 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 75):
Exactly. The plane did not go missing like MH370...

My point was merely to suggest these things can happen. Combined with another issue - be it fire, structural failure, engine failure - which could be unrelated or the cause of the initial issue, things could go very wrong. There could have been a hydraulics loss as seen in JAL123 or UA232. There could have been a oxygen loss event, like Helios 522 or Payne Stewart's Learjet 35.

Most often, air disasters are not attributable to a single cause but rather a chain of events. A transponder failure + something else could result in a fateful occurrence. AI 127 was fortunate in that they only had a single failure to deal with.
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
ROSWELL41
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:50 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:32 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 70):
I still think that the transponder is the key clue. If transponders on other planes have failed before, how many of those planes went missing too? Also, why aren't MAS releasing the exact fuel load? If they know that the Captain requested hours more fuel than needed then I think they would still be trying to hide that information in order to save face until they absolutely needed to release the figures.

This is key. Losing the transponder and having no further VHF or HF communications points to an act done intentionally. The way aircraft systems are designed, an electrical failure would not disable all of these systems simultaneously. Sadly, I doubt we will ever know the truth and this speculation will continue ad infinitum.
 
tyler81190
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:28 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:33 pm

Quoting socalgeo (Reply 77):
Here is a map with airfield locations:

But does this include abandoned airports? Also, if it were a planned incident, they could have built a rudimentary lading strip somewhere...
 
LXLucien
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:51 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:34 pm

Posted this already in the last thread, but does anybody know how many Satellite Telephones there are on board the MH 777 ?
Every Seat? Only in the Galley? Only in the Cockpit?

Thanks
Quote "Syriana": "Beirut, it's like Paris in the Mid-East"
 
ROSWELL41
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:50 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:36 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 67):
Why assuming just the Captain? It could be the FO, it COULD also be both...

Fair enough. I can't prove any of this. My only speculation that it would be the captain is due to his greater experience on the 777, in flying in general and the likelihood that an older person may have more 'life issues' than his younger, 27 year old first officer.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:36 pm

Quoting cuban8 (Reply 22):
- Suicide I think is highly unlikely. Why fly for another 4 hours to commit suicide? Why turn off the transponder?

A suicidal pilot could have depressurized the aircraft (after locking the other pilot out of the cockpit when he left to use the lavatory) and when the suicidal pilot passed out from lack of oxygen, the aircraft would have kept flying on autopiot until it ran out of fuel.

Anything is possible at this stage.
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:56 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:37 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 80):
Quoting socalgeo (Reply 77):Here is a map with airfield locations:
But does this include abandoned airports? Also, if it were a planned incident, they could have built a rudimentary lading strip somewhere...

Nope, but I'm working on it.... But I'm sure that the US Navy already has them loaded up on their systems.... Still, there isnt alot of options out there anyway....Socotra looks interesting to me.... If the plane could get there....

SoCalGeo
 
CheezWhiz
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:21 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:39 pm

Hello all,

I was browsing through images on the Tomnod website last night and stumbled across images of 3 objects that looked more interesting than the thousands of other images I've looked at. I bought a membership to Airliners.net so that I could share them with you.

Each of the objects are approximately 100 feet in length, similar in size and shape to an aircraft wing or fuselage section. The objects are also grouped nearby one another. Two of the objects are approximately 1/2 mile apart, North to South. The third object lies approximately 2 miles to the West of the other two objects.

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/22343
http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/23963
http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/23166
 
teo747
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:44 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:40 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 80):
But does this include abandoned airports? Also, if it were a planned incident, they could have built a rudimentary lading strip somewhere...

Without anyone noticing? This isn't a James Bond movie in which they can land a huge airliner and taxi it into the underground volcano lair. With all the surveillance and satellite imaging capability out there, if there were a 777 sitting on the ground somewhere it isn't supposed to be, it would be utterly shocking to find out that it hasn't been found by now.

[Edited 2014-03-13 16:41:14]
 
trex8
Posts: 5649
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:40 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 70):

Until the WSJ itself comes out and claims that the information regarding the engine monitoring data was incorrect, I will go with the idea that MAS and the authorities are not telling us everything they know and the plane did keep flying for some time.

As pointed out by someone in the previous thread WSJ are backtracking. There was no engine data sent, just attempts at establishing a data link as others have also discussed in subsequent posts.

Throughout the roughly four hours after the jet dropped from civilian radar screens, these people said, the link operated in a kind of standby mode and sought to establish contact with a satellite or satellites. These transmissions did not include data, they said, but the periodic contacts indicate to investigators that the plane was still intact and believed to be flying.

Top
 
s5daw
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 8:15 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:42 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 53):
They are saying ACARS(Data Reporting System) went down @1:07AM and Transponders @1:21AM. That could indicate electric fire.

Flightradar has data till 1:21, meaning ADS-B was transmitting till then.
Actually this is the best and only factual data the public has. Everything else is noise.

That little data we have indicates that suddenly, before disappearing, the plane went from it's FL to 0. Obviously that can't be right, and the airspeed is still there. So something failed, and after it failed, the plane disappeared. It's interesting that heading and altitude change at the same data point. I don't know the interval between the points... could be they initiated and finished the turn and then something happened. Still, interesting that it happens at exactly the same moment.

- what could cause such a data point?
- what would happen to AP if it suddenly received altitude input of 0 ft?
 
456
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2001 4:20 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:43 pm

Quoting CheezWhiz (Reply 85):

Hi CheezWhiz, welcome to you!

To me all photos contain ships.

[Edited 2014-03-13 16:44:33]
 
otf
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:14 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:45 pm

Quoting teo747 (Reply 86):

Each of the objects are approximately 100 feet in length, similar in size and shape to an aircraft wing or fuselage section. The objects are also grouped nearby one another. Two of the objects are approximately 1/2 mile apart, North to South. The third object lies approximately 2 miles to the West of the other two objects.

They look like boats, maybe fishing trawlers to me?
 
snowjob
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:06 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:46 pm

Long time a.net member but first time forum poster.

Firstly, thanks for letting me be part of this community....99% of the time i just like browsing the photos...and kudos to all of the plane-spotters who share them. But in weeks like this (or in the case with OZ 214) the discourse on this site is, for the most part, fantastic and revealing and has unequivocally satisfied my craving for info of all things aviation related. Multiple theories presented, multiple analyses discussed, multiple bases of knowledge shared. And many people -- as evidenced by their posts -- really wanting to help 'figure it out'. What continues to amaze me is that this site typically has relevant info or theories or perspectives or discussions....hours and hours before the mainstream media get around to discussing them (often poorly).

Secondly, thanks to the mods for doing a masterful job with this over what I imagine where an overwhelming 6 days.

Thirdly, and IMHO, in light of the WSJ story this a.m.....and the recent ABC News reportage within the last hour...would seem to confirm suspicions of a nefarious action ("purposeful act") behind the disappearance of this airplane. If this turns out to be true....let me just say that I hope the a.net community, as more and more facts are revealed, can effect positive change in aviation through their discourse and ideas on this forum.
 
philask
Posts: 34
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:46 pm

Quoting s5daw (Reply 88):
- what could cause such a data point?
- what would happen to AP if it suddenly received altitude input of 0 ft?

If it was a fire then it's not unreasonable to think that the fire could take out the communication links between sensors and the ADS-B unit which would be getting invalid readings (but still relaying them), I would imagine if the AP gets "out of scope" readings it disengages.
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:47 pm

Quoting KIAS (Reply 78):
My point was merely to suggest these things can happen.

I understand. I was just suggesting that if a faulty transponder was the only problem then this story wouldn't be news.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 87):
As pointed out by someone in the previous thread WSJ are backtracking.

Sorry, I missed that. I wonder if they are being 'forced' to backtrack by a higher power in the know?
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
CheezWhiz
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:21 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:47 pm

Quoting 456 (Reply 89):

Yes, the images could be ships. I've seen a lot of ships in the Tomnod imagery, however most of them appeared larger and more well-defined.

Edit: ...and thank you for the "Welcome!"  Smile

[Edited 2014-03-13 16:56:52]
 
s5daw
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 8:15 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:58 pm

Quoting philask (Reply 92):
If it was a fire then it's not unreasonable to think that the fire could take out the communication links between sensors and the ADS-B unit which would be getting invalid readings (but still relaying them), I would imagine if the AP gets "out of scope" readings it disengages.

All right! And probably we can rule out:
- hypoxia, as it wouldn't cause the altitude to drop to 0
- manual pilot intervention / hijacking, as there's probably no way to cut this link manually
- suicide, as we would have more data points in between, gradually losing altitude (and gaining speed)

Whatever happened was sudden.

Now for those who know T7: where could the damage which would be capable of disabling altitude indication or link to ADS-B happen? The bay below the cockpit? In the cockpit?
 
PIKtoYEG
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:56 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:00 am

Have the NTSB confirmed who the Lead Investigator is for MH370?
 
lweber557
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:52 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:01 am

Not sure if my theory has been brought up yet but I'm not reading through 20+ threads to see if it was.

In some kind of freak error chain the aircraft could have lost all comm, nav systems, and cabin pressure. The pilots would then be forced to make an emergency decent to a lower altitude. Being at night without any comm or nav and possibly without engines (everthing is specualtion) the pilots are forced to ditch into the sea. The aircraft remains mostly intact but takes on a significant amount of water because it is damaged in the night water landing and sinks instantly. Or it breaks into afew pieces that quickly sink. Either way the only survivors who make it out didn't have life rafts or flotation devices and are lost at sea. And 95% of the aircraft is at the bottom of the ocean.

I know its out there but as I already said every theory is speculation until they find MH370 and those black boxes.
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flyingturtle
Posts: 6052
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:02 am

Thank you, rcair1, for updating your already excellent summary!  

So we have a development here - that ACARS and the transponder quitted at different times.

Quoting ukair (Reply 61):

See here - http://mh370.wikia.com/wiki/Mh370_Wiki - we have a nice collection of information there, complete with links.

This service is free of charge. And anybody can contribute. 
Quoting socalgeo (Reply 77):
Here is a map with airfield locations:

It's great work you're doing!  


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:02 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 83):
the aircraft would have kept flying on autopiot until it ran out of fuel.

Has any source indicated the estimated maximum flying time based on the amount of fuel the aircraft had?
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