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Western727
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:46 am

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 143):
It isn't about being state of the art and secret. It is about having the time to disemsemable it and re-engineer it. It takes decades.

I agree with you that it takes decades...which is why "covertly stealing" a 772ER of 15 year-old tech and creating an international incident makes no sense...when there are 787s out there that are much more cutting-edge. Why give yourself a 15-year handicap?
Jack @ AUS
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:47 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 146):
But to stop SATCOM from pinging you would need to pull the breaker, right?

Cutting power to the system would do it for sure.

It didn't stop pinging though.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
ranold76
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:47 am

Hello A.net,
I've been a lurker for many years, but this event and the discussion on here about it, influenced me in signing up.
I don't have have a theory on the cause/result of this event, as there are few known facts.
That said, if a nefarious person(s) were at the helm of this aircraft, be it the pilots or a passenger(s), going out of their way to destroy themselves and all on board..... why would you go through all this, turning off the Xders, disabling a variety of systems to slowly cruise out into the Indian Ocean and only killing those on board? Wouldn't a fast, steep descent right after the Vietnam handoff do the job? Also, why wouldn't targeting others on the ground be an objective etc?
Lastly, aren't many of the sensors involving Xders, TCAS and other radio/nav systems up near the nose cone? Could they have collided with something, taking out said systems and subsequently be dealing with a decompression and fire issue?
The possibilities and scenarios are truly numerous.
The discussion has been great and we'll likely only know all the facts when they find the boxes etc.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:48 am

The more I read, the more likely it seems that this was a deliberate act. Whether it was an elaborate suicide by one of the pilots (with an effort to hide the evidence by misdirecting recovery efforts) or some sort of terrorist plot (steal an aircraft for nefarious purposes), it seems increasingly likely that (a) it did not suffer a catastrophic event and crash in the Gulf of Thailand and (b) the transponder was deliberately switched off.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 135):

Exactly. Somebody must know the amount of fuel on board, but no one is saying. If more than a typical fuel load for PEK, it could have made it to Iran, Somalia, etc.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:49 am

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 141):
There is nothing on a 777 that does not exist on other aircraft, including Chinese-designed aircraft like those of Comac.

So you're saying that a Comac is equal to a 777. I disagree.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 141):
This is a 15-year old design for a long-haul airliner. The technology on it is advanced but not at all secret.

I am not saying it is more advanced than anything from Boeing or Airbus. I am saying that is more advanced than something from China. And it isn't like Chinese espionage, reverse engineering and patent theft isn't a problem there. Or that they actually have a history of trying this with the F117.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 142):
Buy one. They sell them, you know.

You're China. You buy an aircraft, that is registered, that the US government knows about. Then the US government never sees this plane again, ever. You don't think it would raise some eyebrows and questions. I still think the secret hijacking that "crashed in the ocean" sounds less likely that it would raise questions.

I am pretty sure I will admit I am wrong on all this when the facts come in. But right now, it actually sounds most plausible to me based on what we know about the chain of events.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:49 am

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 143):
I'll say it again because people seem to not read my response to that, they can't do that if they don't want to raise any questions.

Why? Who would be suspicious about the Chinese government buying a 777? They have an air force! They already own Canadian and American aircraft!
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:50 am

Quoting ranold76 (Reply 152):
Lastly, aren't many of the sensors involving Xders, TCAS and other radio/nav systems up near the nose cone? Could they have collided with something, taking out said systems and subsequently be dealing with a decompression and fire issue?

On your typical airliner the weather radar is inside the actual nose cone and the pitot-static sensors (speed, altitude) plus the stall sensors sort of surround the bottom half of the nose area, but most antennas are further back. My guess is this is to avoid interference with instrumentation at the pointy end.

[Edited 2014-03-13 17:54:38]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:50 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 151):
It didn't stop pinging though.

That's precisely my point. ACARS may have been cut off but SATCOM was not.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
MSY-MSP
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:51 am

I for one think the Socotra idea is a very interesting one. Based on the socalgeo posted, it fits with a lot of the information that is out there. If we go with the theory that this was a intentional act.

First of all, it is in Yemen. Not exactly one of the best countries in the world to go to. and know to be friendly to less than desirables.

Second it is very remote with very few folks there.

Third the runway is on the east side of the island and over 10000 feet long

Fourth it is at the 5 hour mark or approximately 6-7 hours into the total flight. about when the flight would have been expected in PEK.

It is entirely conceivable that this is where the aircraft is. It would also explain FL295, the lack of any communications from any passengers (bad guys take out or control the towers on the island) and also the 4+ hours that apparently the satcom system was conducting system ready pings.

If the IFE/moving map was turned off, the pax would be none the wiser until the plane landed. Landing would have been a night either way or close to it.

And this fits Occums razor perfectly requires only one real assumption (intentional act by crew or hijacker)
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:53 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 153):
Exactly. Somebody must know the amount of fuel on board, but no one is saying. If more than a typical fuel load for PEK, it could have made it to Iran, Somalia, etc.

I will freely admit that my crazy Chinese espionage theory would completely change if I knew they had enough fuel to make it to Iran via a roundabout method.

Quoting Western727 (Reply 150):
I agree with you that it takes decades...which is why "covertly stealing" a 772ER of 15 year-old tech and creating an international incident makes no sense...when there are 787s out there that are much more cutting-edge. Why give yourself a 15-year handicap?

I'll give you that, but maybe they couldn't recruit a pilot for the 787 (it's a smaller pool)? Maybe this plan has been in place for years before the 787 was a concept? It isn't like a 772 is an ancient aircraft. It is arguably the third most advanced plane model in the world behind the 787 and A380. And one with a proven track record (which the 787 doesn't have). Or maybe the Carbon Fiber leap is too much for them? I don't know. But just because it isn't a 787 or A380 and it is a 772, doesn't negate my theory to me at the moment.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:54 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 149):
Ah thx. But that's my point. To disable ACARS you have to pull either the ACARS box/CB, or the SATCOM CB.

But see this from post 139 above:

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 139):
On PPRuNe a 777 pilot mentioned that you can simply turn on/off various ACARS broadcasting modes (VHF/HF/SATCOM) from the computer right there in the cockpit

But you need to pull the CB in the EE bay to stop SATCOM from pinging.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:54 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 157):
That's precisely my point. ACARS may have been cut off but SATCOM was not.

I see what you are saying. Disabling the transmission of ACARS over SATCOM from the flight computer, I assume, would not power down the actual SATCOM hardware, meaning it would still be sending keep-alive packets to the satellites.

Sort of like, you can disable 'data while roaming' on your phone, and it won't work if you're roaming, but your phone still connects to a data-capable network and the radio is able to send data. You get what I mean?

So he wouldn't necessarily have to go down to the bay and pull the breaker, if indeed what that 777 pilot said is true and you can just disable transmission modes in the computer.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:55 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 155):
Why? Who would be suspicious about the Chinese government buying a 777? They have an air force! They already own Canadian and American aircraft!

You're not putting both events together. Chinese government buying a 777 isn't suspicious. Not in the least. The Chinese government buying a 777 that is never seen ever again, that is the point of suspicion.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:55 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 161):
So he wouldn't necessarily have to go down to the bay and pull the breaker,

He might have wanted to... or else didn't know about SATCOM staying alive.

[Edited 2014-03-13 17:56:36]
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:57 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 160):
Quoting nupogodi (Reply 139):
On PPRuNe a 777 pilot mentioned that you can simply turn on/off various ACARS broadcasting modes (VHF/HF/SATCOM) from the computer right there in the cockpit

But you need to pull the CB in the EE bay to stop SATCOM from pinging.

Yes but you also said:

Quoting hivue (Reply 19):
Plus it has been mentioned earlier that the CBs for SATCOM are not on the flight deck but in the EE bay.

I'd love to hear a 777 pilot we "know" mention it here. I don't put a lot of faith in CNN pr PPRune.

In any case, it doesn't materially change anything. Bottom line is that it is not very difficult to disable ACARS, even if you have to crawl into the EE bay.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
tyler81190
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:59 am

Quoting teo747 (Reply 116):
But surely there are multiple entities looking at this data - we've already seen satellite data provided by the US (Tomnod) and China (suspected debris photos), so it seems pretty implausible that everyone who could find this plane would be in on it and hiding something. We will see...but I am 99.9999% confident that this plane is at the bottom of the ocean - we just don't know where yet.

I would not be surprised should it be discovered at the bottom of the ocean... But I also would not be surprised if it is found intact at some kind of makeshift airfield... I have see other posts referencing to landing in remote China. If it crashed there, the Chinese could have easily cleaned it up and covered the tracks. You also have to look t who has the control over any information, satellite data, and radar. The original source of the info, Malaysia, and China, and Vietnam could have skewed the original data prior to releasing it to other entities.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 147):
I would suspect they would at least want to fly for long enough (30 mins+) for the CVR to write over itself to get rid of any verbal evidence. Or, if they were really on a mission, they would have just aimed it at a point that would take it to the most remote area possible so it would be hard to find and it the FDRs were ever recovered they would just show a gradual decent rather than full forward pressure on the yoke by the PF...

I could be wrong, but I believe that since the CVR has been upgraded to solid-state recording, that it can keep hours of info. Anyone have more information on the amount of recording time the CVR has?
 
bajamatic
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:00 am

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 143):
I'll say it again because people seem to not read my response to that, they can't do that if they don't want to raise any questions.

There are easier ways to achieve this than taking a mid-flight commercial airliner carrying 230 souls. I don't rule out espionage, but I think the plane isn't the target.
 
redflyer
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:02 am

Quoting cuban8 (Reply 22):
- Suicide I think is highly unlikely. Why fly for another 4 hours to commit suicide? Why turn off the transponder?

Suicides don't always happen spontaneously at the point of starting the act. Some people have doubts and debate it in their minds while standing on a ledge or holding a gun to their head before finally committing the act. Capt. Craig Button, USAF, is one "suicide" that comes to mind where he essentially hijacked an A10 Warthog and flew it until he ran out of gas and crashed into a Colorado mountain peak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_D._Button

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 119):
This actually leads us sideways to an interesting point: If the plane is never found, who leads the investigation? The country above where it disappeared?

My guess, a wild one at that, would be that the country the airplane is flagged under, which in this case just happens to be the country below where it disappeared.
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:03 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 164):
Bottom line is that it is not very difficult to disable ACARS, even if you have to crawl into the EE bay.

Crawling into the EE bay would be difficult if you're also trying to fly a 777 and not be noticed. So you can shut off the transponder and ACARS (and VHF and UHF) from the flight deck but not SATCOM.

[Edited 2014-03-13 18:03:41]
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 am

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 143):
It isn't about being state of the art and secret. It is about having the time to disemsemable it and re-engineer it. It takes decades.

If China wants to reverse engineer a 777 component, they just need to bid on that component, convince Boeing they can manufacture it, get the contract, keep producing bad parts, China will have detailed drawings in no time.

Sounds like fiction. China used similar technique to get Space Launch Vehicle technology. Read about Loral Space scandal during Bill Clinton period.

There is no need to vanish a 777.
All posts are just opinions.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:05 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 163):
He might have wanted to... or else didn't know about SATCOM staying alive.

I doubt he would, assuming we are talking about a career pilot. That's a kind of low-level networking detail that would have zero impact on operating the plane. I know what handshakes and keep-alive packets are because I sometimes work with networking professionally, but I don't know why a pilot would assume such low-level details about the satellite link. I personally was surprised to hear they use such a system of continuous contact, to me it seems that would waste precious bandwidth, connecting on-demand would work just as well, but then you would not know ahead of time that the sat indeed has space for your transmission, you are "reserving a spot" I suppose, so it makes sense for aviation. It's the kind of really low level detail that I wouldn't expect pilots to know, although all will now.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
trex8
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:06 am

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 162):
You're not putting both events together. Chinese government buying a 777 isn't suspicious. Not in the least. The Chinese government buying a 777 that is never seen ever again, that is the point of suspicion.

Didn't the VIP 767 the CIA bugged never get used or seen much since?
They assembled the MD80, they are building the A320, they will probably be outfitting the A330, They are making significant chunks of numerous western modern planes/choppers, many designed since the 777 was built. Every western engine/avionics/component manufacturer are tripping over themselves to help COMAC design and make two Chinese indigenous designs and they want to steal a 777 to reverse engineer it?????
Heck, when the 777X line starts up I wouldn't be surprised if B doesn't sell them the licence to build a "classic" 777! If they were dumb enough to want it.
 
Viscount724
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:06 am

Quoting OTF (Reply 102):
Quoting questions (Reply 99):
Has any source indicated the estimated maximum flying time based on the amount of fuel the aircraft had?

I think it was mentioned they had enough fuel to fly to PEK plus another 2 hours flying time.

A live CNN report just said a senior U.S. defence department official at the Pentagon stated a few minutes ago he believes it's highly probable the aircraft is at the bottom of the Indian Ocean.

[Edited 2014-03-13 18:07:19]
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:07 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 165):
I could be wrong, but I believe that since the CVR has been upgraded to solid-state recording, that it can keep hours of info. Anyone have more information on the amount of recording time the CVR has?

I believe the minimum legal requirement is 30 minutes. I looked up some previous NTSB reports on aircraft of a similar vintage/sophistication and a lot of them say 30 minutes was recorded. I should have looked at the Asiana report, but they might not mention it since 30 minutes is probably longer than the accident sequence. Anyhow, the FDR captures like, 50 hours or more.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
coolian2
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:07 am

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 159):

Honestly, with all due respect, your wild suspicions of China and Iran suggest paranoia rather than any rational conclusion.

Apologies if I've buggered up quoting, noob here.
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
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Tangowhisky
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:09 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 125):
Scroll up. Text search previous posts.

You mind pointing me to it? I don't see anything about the new article that was published in the WSJ after 7 PM EDT. "Jetliner 'Pinged' Satellites With Location, Altitude for Hours After Disappearance" This is not the same article published earlier in the day.
Only the paranoid survive
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:09 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 168):
Crawling into the EE bay would be difficult if you're also trying to fly a 777 and not be noticed.

Meh. Autopilot. They were at cruise.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:09 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 172):
A live CNN report just said a senior U.S. official interviewed a few minutes ago believes it's highly probable the aircraft is at the bottom of the Indian Ocean.

Highly probable? Big words... It is possible though...

If it did crash near its last known location and sank pretty much intact, I would assume that the ships searching in that area are using sonar or whatever powers they have to scan the sea floor? Or, would they just be looking for floating debris?
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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combatshadow
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:11 am

Civil Air Patrol will now be adding expertise in the search with their Radar Analysis Team.

http://www.capvolunteernow.com/today...an_airliner&show=news&newsID=18283
Bob
 
phantomx18
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:11 am

Do we have ANY information on the 20 passengers employed by the technology company? What specific jobs they were assigned to? Anything secret/classified? And what about the rest of the passengers, any info on who they were, what they did, etc.

Also, and I know this is far fetched. . .but we hear all the time about "sleeper" cells when it comes to terrorism. What if this co-pilot, who started work in 2007, had been groomed for something like this, and just recently "activated" for this mission. This of course is Hollywood movie conjecture, but right now, there isn't much to go on other than speculation.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:12 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 176):
Meh. Autopilot. They were at cruise.

Flying back across the Malay peninsula trying not to be noticed?

For the record, I think this airplane is sitting on the bottom of the Gulf of Thailand not far from where it disappeared. But if that's not the case then I don't think it flew an hour or 2 hours or 4 hours to the west with everyone on board disabled.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:13 am

Quoting captainx (Reply 136):
No. The circuit breakers are located in the E/E bay."

Only the SATCOM, VHF/HF are in the cockpit.

http://www.meriweather.com/flightdeck/777/aft/break-l.html
 
tyler81190
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:14 am

Quoting bajamatic (Reply 166):
There are easier ways to achieve this than taking a mid-flight commercial airliner carrying 230 souls. I don't rule out espionage, but I think the plane isn't the target.

If espionage was not the goal, then maybe the plane was just a tool, to be used at a later time? Perhaps explains why no one has claimed responsibility for a terrorist act, maybe the "real" act hasn't happened yet and the plane is sitting on the ground somewhere, waiting.
 
Wingtips56
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:16 am

Well, China (COMAC) does appear to be reverse-engineering an ancient Douglas DC-9 for their ARJ21. And we can see how well that is going. So maybe there is something to the theory of stealing an 11-year old 777 for a similar purpose. A pirated copy of the 777 could reek all kinds of commercial havoc when it reaches the marketplace in say, 25 years from now.

Sorry, but I just can't buy into this story.

I don't have any other theories. The only thing I can see about a pilot suicide scenario at this point would be trying to hide any and all evidence of that (by flying it somewhere well off course before plunging into the sea) so that the family can collect on "accident" insurance. It would have been easier just to "accidentally" trip in front of a bus on the streets of Kuala Lumpur.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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bajamatic
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:17 am

Now THIS looks like a plane..... From Tomnod

 
Indy
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:18 am

What if this was a hijacking and the plane got shot down? Maybe the responsible government doesn't want to admit that it just killed over 200 people. Or worse they shot down a plane that was suffering electronics problems and wasn't actually hijacked. A mistake like that would result in a lack of cooperation. Some will think it is far fetched. But is it really? Is it really more far fetched than anything else? The plane is still missing and nobody seems to know why and the plane isn't where it was supposed to be. Something obviously was abnormal about the whole thing. A hijacking or mistaken hijacking followed by the plane being shot down is as likely as any other scenario at this point.
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:18 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 180):
Flying back across the Malay peninsula trying not to be noticed?

Yeah? The last primary radar contact of the UFO was at FL295. Just changed the heading and altitude and cruised.

Consider this sequence of events:
1. ACARS makes last transmission
2. He uses the computer in the cockpit to disable all 3 ACARS downlinks
3. He talks to ATC for the handoff
4. He turns off his transponder
5. ??????

Or this one:
1. ACARS makes last transmission
2. He talks to ATC for the handoff
3. He turns off his transponder
4. He sets the autopilot to turn around and descend (if MH370 was the UFO)
5. He goes into the EE bay and pulls the ACARS breaker
6. ??????

Both are plausible, and assuming he doesn't know or doesn't care that SATCOM hardware being powered will reveal that he 'exists', describe what we know.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8905
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:18 am

Latest from BBC: "In an echo of claims made in the Wall Street Journal earlier on Thursday that the plane transmitted engine data for hours after the plane disappeared, US officials briefed on the search told Associated Press that Boeing systems on the plane also sent signals to a satellite for four hours after the aircraft went missing. The Boeing 777-200 was not transmitting data to the satellite, but was instead sending out a signal to establish contact, said the official, who was not named. If true, it could suggest the aircraft was still flying. Boeing offers a satellite service that can receive a stream of data during flight on how the aircraft is functioning. Malaysia Airlines did not subscribe to that service, but the plane was still automatically sending pings to the satellite, the official said."
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:19 am

Quoting phantomx18 (Reply 179):
Also, and I know this is far fetched. . .but we hear all the time about "sleeper" cells when it comes to terrorism. What if this co-pilot, who started work in 2007, had been groomed for something like this, and just recently "activated" for this mission. This of course is Hollywood movie conjecture, but right now, there isn't much to go on other than speculation.

I thought the same and it is not too far fetched. How many commercial aircraft and pilots are out there? A lot! It would only take one rogue person to pull this off. It is very possible...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
tyler81190
Posts: 720
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:19 am

Quoting bajamatic (Reply 184):
Now THIS looks like a plane..... From Tomnod

An old plane... Not the straight wing, all modern jets have a swept-wing design.
 
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N328KF
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:20 am

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 183):
Well, China (COMAC) does appear to be reverse-engineering an ancient Douglas DC-9 for their ARJ21.

Why do they need to do that, when they have the tooling?

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 189):
An old plane... Not the straight wing, all modern jets have a swept-wing design.

Or a C-130 in flight.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
hivue
Posts: 2125
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:21 am

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 181):
Only the SATCOM, VHF/HF are in the cockpit.

You'll have to point out the SATCOM breaker to me (I think I may need to stop staring at a computer screen for a while.  )
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:22 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 186):
Both are plausible, and assuming he doesn't know or doesn't care that SATCOM hardware being powered will reveal that he 'exists', describe what we know.

I agree. We're on the same page after all.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
tyler81190
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:28 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:22 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 190):
Or a C-130 in flight.

Like I said.. OLD haha the C-130 is not a new design. But I did not think of a C-130 perhaps looking for the doomed aircraft as a possibility.
 
Tangowhisky
Posts: 667
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:24 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 187):
systems on the plane also sent signals to a satellite for four hours after the aircraft went missing.

Yes. The Aircraft Health Monitoring system.
Only the paranoid survive
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:25 am

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 174):
Honestly, with all due respect, your wild suspicions of China and Iran suggest paranoia rather than any rational conclusion.

I am really not a paranoid person. I just recognize that espionage, both state and corporate, is a real thing in this world, and at this time, those with the means and potential desire to pull something like this off is Iran and China.

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 174):
Apologies if I've buggered up quoting, noob here.

Welcome. Quoting can be tricky sometimes. And it doesn't work quite right from mobile platforms.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
imagoagnitio
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:22 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:26 am

Quoting bajamatic (Reply 184):

yep looks like an early C-130 Herc, defo not a B772
 
rcair1
Posts: 1147
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:39 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:29 am

Re ACARS being shut off first....

Quoting liquidair (Reply 60):
but... The acars... Shut down before the captain signed off from the ATC
Quoting flyenthu (Reply 68):

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 59):

I literally copied this right off the TV screen. This was on CNN, and they were citing ABC. I left out the text within paren.
Quoting liquidair (Reply 60):
but... The acars... Shut down before the captain signed off from the ATC?
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 98):
So we have a development here - that ACARS and the transponder quitted at different times.

I understand the CNN reported that "ACARS was shut off before the transponder"
That is incorrect - the last transmission from ACARS was significantly before the transponder quit - but ACARS on this ship only sends data periodically (per Rolls Royce). Another ACARS transmission would not have been expected for some time. ACARS is not constantly transmitting like the transponder.

I might suggest you review

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 31):
New Sanity Check
Quoting ukair (Reply 61):
the daily mail is reporting that the FAA issued a warning about a flaw in some 777's to quote
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 98):

Thank you, rcair1, for updating your already excellent summary!  

You are welcome!

Re: Airworthiness Directive.
Does not apply to this ship.
Again covered in

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 31):
New Sanity Check
rcair1
 
Trin
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:45 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 168):
Crawling into the EE bay would be difficult if you're also trying to fly a 777 and not be noticed. So you can shut off the transponder and ACARS (and VHF and UHF) from the flight deck but not SATCOM.

That sounds like what happened, then. SATCOM was obviously still powered and running, but ACARS and the transponder were offline. That would be the perfect explanation for this scenario, at least in the unfolding stages of the situation as it developed onboard. Not knowing to - or not being able to - go down to the EE bay and totally disable the SATCOM to stop pings, to me, sounds like a single person or tiny group of people that took over the craft, but didn't quite have the knowledge (or manpower) to be 100% 'clean.'
 
nupogodi
Posts: 933
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:58 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21

Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:32 am

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 196):
yep looks like an early C-130 Herc, defo not a B772

Heh, that could be a SAR aircraft.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
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