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cabochris
Posts: 57
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:29 am

Quoting Wolger (Reply 45):

Can you explain further? I have been out of reality, I'm assuming this lead is also now in the Sh*t bucket like everything else...
 
Shmendr
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:30 am

Quoting robk (Reply 34):
And how is he going to get from their last known position out over the sea on the north side of the Malaysian peninsular to the Indian ocean without popping up on either Malaysia's or Thailand's radar screens?

He very well may pop on radar screen, but that doesn't stop him from trying to hide evidence by overriding the blackbox via long uneventful flight. Which leads back to the same question, how long can a 772 CVR/FDR record for before re-recording over previously recorded information: 2hrs? 4hrs?
 
undertheradar
Posts: 407
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:33 am

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 33):

and just proves how 'fractured' the passing on of info is between 'authorities' ... so this very unusual 'sea floor' event occurred 7days ago..and the Chinese researchers didn't have the foresight to 'share' this info with ANYONE until today!!!...i'm sure they had some knowledge of the MH307 disappearance
 
tomlee
Posts: 610
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:34 am

Quoting Shmendr (Reply 54):
He very well may pop on radar screen, but that doesn't stop him from trying to hide evidence by overriding the blackbox via long uneventful flight. Which leads back to the same question, how long can a 772 CVR/FDR record for before re-recording over previously recorded information: 2hrs? 4hrs?

Don't FDRs have much longer record times than CVRs? Isn't it long enough for the longest flight possible plus a bit for an FDR.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:35 am

Quoting undertheradar (Reply 56):

To be fair it might also take some time to make sense of recordings in the ocean to figure out that there was an event. Right now we don't need any more confusing non-verified claims floating around.
 
nm2582
Posts: 174
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:36 am

Quoting Shmendr (Reply 54):
Which leads back to the same question, how long can a 772 CVR/FDR record for before re-recording over previously recorded information: 2hrs? 4hrs?

I believe it is two hours.

Whomever did this is more than sharp enough to have pulled the breaker on the CVR if they so chose. Whatever is found on the CVR will be precisely what he or she wanted to be found on the CVR. If it's a suicide/insurance deal like some speculation indicates, there will be not a shred of anything on the CVR that is useful.
 
Wolger
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:41 am

Quoting stackhouse007 (Reply 48):
Quoting rickabone (Reply 50):
Quoting Shmendr (Reply 54):

I might have missed out on the news of his passport no. verification. Is there any? Too many 8's and it's kind of short.
 
infinitybeyond
Posts: 6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:42 am

Lurker and first time poster. Was introduced into the investigations of incidents back in the college days in Engineering school. It's been fascinating to see the events unfold.

When the plane was first reported missing, The CEO of Airasia tweeted that it landed safely in Nanning, China. If the plane did indeed turn west post the point of last contact, then made a turn back north in the Indian Ocean towards Nanning, then it could explain the mystery why it had flown for 4 extra hours.

China had been known to censor information coming out from the country, particularly in this case:
- The name of the Uighur artist was among one of the censored passengers in the first version of the published passenger manifesto
- The Uighur artist's weibo account (a microblogging service, the Chinese equivalent of twitter) was deleted immediately after the disappearance of the plane
- There was an official note coming from Chinese government to all media that they should not report on any unconfirmed rumors

The question now, is whether the Chinese propaganda machine is strong enough to hide an entire plane and all its passengers out of the world's sight. In this case, I would have suspected that everyone involved in Nanning airport (at 4 or 5 am local time) were ordered to have their lips shut tight while the passengers are all held hostage somewhere. This is beginning to sound more credible especially since there had been:

1. An Uighur terrorist attack in Kunming train station with some 30 killed just a week before the flight,
2. A terrorist attack in Beijing warning from someone who contacted the authority in Taipei mere days before and
3. A mass knife attack had just happened in the city of Changsha, which is also reported to have also an Uighur origin.

To be honest, I wouldn't believe a thing the Chinese government is saying now. It does look as if the US, China and to some extent Malaysian government know what had been going on but are not allowed to tell the public. The leaks from the US seems to be trying to force China into disclosing everything but China responds with more misinformation that attempts to confuse everyone. Examples are the satellite images, the seabed event and the head of the Chinese aviation department even told the media that the plane might never be found as there are planes that had gone missing for 60 years. They are all trying to tell the public to move along and there's nothing to see here...

Of course this is just wild speculation and perhaps a bit of conspiracy theory but everything else just doesn't make sense on this one...
 
coolian2
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:45 am

Quoting Wolger (Reply 60):
I might have missed out on the news of his passport no. verification. Is there any? Too many 8's and it's kind of short.

Again, why does it matter, and also, it's exactly under the NZ passport format. Given my number I would believe it to be real.
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KIAS
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:52 am

Quoting rickabone (Reply 50):
If a pilot of a B777 wanted to incapacitate the passengers, could they slowly depressurize the cabin and cause everyone to pass out without anyone noticing and causing a panic?

No. If the outflow valves were manually opened on any passenger jet and the cabin depressurized, masks would drop.

Quoting infinitybeyond (Reply 61):
The question now, is whether the Chinese propaganda machine is strong enough to hide an entire plane and all its passengers out of the world's sight. In this case, I would have suspected that everyone involved in Nanning airport (at 4 or 5 am local time) were ordered to have their lips shut tight while the passengers are all held hostage somewhere. This is beginning to sound more credible

I don't think it sounds credible at all. That would be an act of war and the entire globe would come down on China. It is pretty difficult to believe a modern world superpower would do something so bold. It would tank their economy, ruin everything they've gained. And for what? To capture some artist, as you say? Why not wait until he landed in Beijing? Doesn't make any sense.
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
undertheradar
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:53 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 58):

was just making as observation re that particular post....makes no difference to me...I still think the plane went down in the Indian Ocean... re my previous posts..
 
JimJupiter
Posts: 347
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:00 am

Quoting infinitybeyond (Reply 61):
This is beginning to sound more credible

No, it sounds like

Quoting infinitybeyond (Reply 61):
wild speculation

and

Quoting infinitybeyond (Reply 61):
conspiracy theory

Part 21 is totally unreadable, let's do it better in Part 22!  
Quoting SA7700 (Thread starter):
could we please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads?
One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
 
sipadan
Posts: 322
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:02 am

Quoting stackhouse007 (Reply 48):
Sipadan, why do you continue to point fingers at the captain? Why not the FO?

okay, after being COMPLETELY dismissive of the flight sim even POSSIBLY having any significance (and the idea that all pilots that have a flight sim are ALL "terrorists", as was implied, which couldn't be further from the truth. For one, I'm not calling the pilot a "terrorist", and secondly, I believe it is most probable that the ONLY pilot in the world with a flight sim that turned towards evil is this man, NO OTHERS), I'm understandably reluctant to share my info with someone that seems incapable of rational thought. But, since you keep asking, here are my reasons 1) He is an atheist, not muslim. 2) He has a fondness for all things electrical (go to his you tube page). 3) He is the senior officer and would have the capability to execute something like this. 4) He has some very overt, vitriolic, caustic and angry sentiment expressed towards Malay govt that he has posted. 5) There are RUMORS ( I lived in Malaysia and this comes from friends that I have there) that he was a bit "off" and "weird". To be clear, these are only rumors...but they are trusted friends who are telling me this, and according to them, this is a growing topic of conversation among people in Malay society. 6) Lastly, an intuition, a hunch, and an informed one insomuch as putting the pieces of the puzzle together. Now, I imagine that this is all grossly inadequate and unconvincing to you, fair enough. But I ask of you, for a minute, to put aside the idea of an accident and accept the commandeered scenario. Then, from this locus, use some good old deductive thought and the ONLY PLAUSIBLE scenario is this..And as far as the FO being in on it, yeah, can't be ruled out but would have to believe that 2 PEOPLE, one 27 yrs of age and in the prime of his life, came together by accident and just so happened to both be of the same mind in regard to doing something of this nature..I think not!!!
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:07 am

Quoting undertheradar (Reply 65):

Given how confusing the media reports are don't really know what to think. It could have crashed in either area and now we have two reports of something hitting hard in the original search area I just wonder how well their two times line up. Add on the reports of satcom pings on the other side and you might have something there too. They should just publicly publish some raw data to tamp down on rampant speculation in either direction.
 
chaseus1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:08 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 51):
Quoting rickabone (Reply 50):

They would have to put on the masks the pressure is the same throughout the pressure tube (cabin+cockpit). (Tube being the plane basically)

One guy mentioned that phone calls may have been difficult to make on a regular flight, so maybe no need to incapacitate passengers... I was thinking along the same line originally.

Or the plane depressurized and the pilots only had limited time left to do anything.

I think the realistic possibilities are narrowing down now though.
 
JimJupiter
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:10 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 69):
They should just publicly publish some raw data to tamp down on rampant speculation in either direction.

Even their experts currently looking at raw data can't conclude anything with any certainty. What help would it be to throw some incomprihensible data out at the public?
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tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:13 am

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 72):

Then we can see just how confusing it really is, instead of having them say it suggests this and that but doesn't confirm anything.
 
speedbird128
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:20 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 1):
ATC is likely to be sure you are just having equipment problems, and will wait even longer for you to come back on line.

Absolutely absolutely wrong. It alerts us to problems and we are even more alert to it going missing.

Just the slightest thing out of the ordinary and we're paying extra attention.

We don't ever "wait even longer".    

Please stop feeding the fire about what we do or don't do as ATC unless you are actually an ATC.
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CaliAtenza
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:21 am

saw this being discussed on a Indian defense forum, but i'd never heard of these islands before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocos_(Keeling)_Islands

-apparently there is an airport there...and airstrips as well. It is in the Indian Ocean but much more down towards australia though.
 
rcair1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:22 am

Okay one more try.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 26):
Except they went through the effort of turning off ACARS first and then took ten minutes to turn off the transponder. ACARS/SATCOM wasn't even discovered until days later if it was the plan to disappear turning it off wouldn't have mattered especially in the short run as no one is watching that data typically.

They did not turn off ACARS 10 minutes before the transponder - on this ship the ACARS data was from the engines and it only transmits 'on occasion'. The last ACARS transmission happened to be 10 minutes before the transponder stopped.

The SATCOM pings are NOT ACARS data. ACARS does use satellite communications when out of VHF range. But the SATCOM is the transmitter - and it is used for lots of stuff. The SATCOM 'reportedly' sent keep alive pings every hours or so to the satellites.

Analogy - your modem in on and sends a 'ping' to your ISP regularly - that is SATCOM. Even if your computers are off.
Your VOIP phone, slingbox and your 3 computers are the ACARS - they communicate to the world THROUGH the modem ("SATCOM".)

I seriously doubt the SATCOM Pings containing altitude, heading and speed. That makes no sense to me - it is a piece of communications hardware - not navigation/aviation. AND if it did - we would KNOW where the plane was, it's heading altitude and speed as of the last ping. We would be searching there.

And don't tell me how credible the news or government agencies is - so this must be right. Every one of them has screwed up more than one time.

.... I think I give... This is beyond 'sanity checks'
rcair1
 
AR385
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:23 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 75):
-apparently there is an airport there...and airstrips as well. It is in the Indian Ocean but much more down towards australia though.

The fact that you know about them, rules them out as a shelter for the missing 777.
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1686
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:26 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 77):
The fact that you know about them, rules them out as a shelter for the missing 777.

i just read the wikipedia article on the islands...i had no idea what they were before.
 
SXDFC
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:29 am

So let me get this straight, in this a-net twilight zone of a topic, so far we have this..


A Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-2H6ER ( 9M-MRO ) departed KUL bound for PEK. During the flight terrorists broke into the cockpit to find the CA sitting next to a flight simulator and the FO smoking cigarettes with a couple of hot girls. The terrorist shut off the plane's transponder and equipment while other terrorist aboard throw out an oil rig and life jacket out of a plane to throw off the military. When the plane lands on Fantasy Island they paint the plane into Iran Air colors and plot to reek havoc... ON AIRLINERS.NET!! They create a website where people can find satellite images of ships that look like the Boeing 777, and a straight winged military plane so that they can post it on the websites 22+ Part thread which was already long in the tooth at Part 15. After the countless parts and images, the posters go nuts on each other, and Iran sends the plane to the future via the Onion after returning everyone in KUL..

[Edited 2014-03-14 00:30:21]
 
JimJupiter
Posts: 347
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:32 am

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 76):
.... I think I give... This is beyond 'sanity checks'

Would you mind posting an up to date version of the check here in pt. 22?  
One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
 
jcxroberts
Posts: 97
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:32 am

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 33):
BEIJING, March 14 (Xinhua) -- Chinese researchers have detected a "seafloor event" near the waters between Malaysia and Vietnam, an area suspected to be linked with the missing Malaysian jetliner MH370, a university announced on Friday.
.

OK, this is the second time China has thrown out evidence that is contrary to the flow of the investigation. I don't buy the 'mistake' they made on the satellite pictures or this.

1) They want an excuse to bring in military assets to a disputed naval area

2) They don't want the plane found

I think 1)
 
jcxroberts
Posts: 97
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:34 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 75):
saw this being discussed on a Indian defense forum, but i'd never heard of these islands before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocos_(Keeling)_Islands

-apparently there is an airport there...and airstrips as well. It is in the Indian Ocean but much more down towards australia though.

It's a Chinese 'base' leased from Burma. You couldn't take off with a 777 from there though in my opinion.
I don't know.

[Edited 2014-03-14 00:37:39]
 
AR385
Posts: 6935
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:34 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 79):
So let me get this straight, in this a-net twilight zone of a topic, so far we have this..
Quoting SXDFC (Reply 79):
When the plane lands on Fantasy Island they paint the plane into Iran Air colors and plot to reek havoc... ON AIRLINERS.NET!!

I seriously doubt much havoc has been wrought upon a.net. This week´s number of new members must be breaking records.      

[Edited 2014-03-14 00:41:43]
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:35 am

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 82):
It's a Chinese 'base' leased from Burma. You couldn't take off from there though in my opinion.

but according to the wiki article its an Australian territory. Why would China have a base there.
 
tomlee
Posts: 610
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:36 am

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 76):

I've stated before I don't really believe the news story myself. I was just stating that under the presumption that their US government source somehow knows more. It very well could be that it just had a different sample rate which makes sense but makes the news articles and source horribly wrong.

I already know that the SATCOM data pings very well could keep functioning independent of the ACARS system as it would just be a network modem to immarsat's network. The news was confusing between ACARS and Sat modem data, that much I already suspected. But which report is right that it was shut off deliberately 10 minutes before (doesn't make sense, acars) or kept going 4 hours later (satcom), both could be right in that the acars was shut off but not the satcom (still doesn't make much sense in that the transponder alone or all of it at roughly the same time would make sense but didn't happen like that) If they know how acars works then they should also know to disable the sat modem as well.

I agree with every point your making it is just the news stories need fixing fast as it is really confusing.

It also doesn't change the fact satcom pings and acars data streams isn't really important in hiding a plane at least in the short term. It took days to figure out the information and there is no way it is still flying around on the same tank of gas.
 
coolian2
Posts: 2483
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:36 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 75):

saw this being discussed on a Indian defense forum, but i'd never heard of these islands before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocos_(Keeling)_Islands

-apparently there is an airport there...and airstrips as well. It is in the Indian Ocean but much more down towards australia though.


No chance. An airport served by the likes of VA/DJ is going to notice a 777.
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CaliAtenza
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:37 am

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 86):
o chance. An airport served by the likes of VA/DJ is going to notice a 777.

yeah i figured....what other islands are out that way...that could conceivablely not notice a 777.
 
slinky09
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:39 am

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 76):
I seriously doubt the SATCOM Pings containing altitude, heading and speed. That makes no sense to me - it is a piece of communications hardware - not navigation/aviation. AND if it did - we would KNOW where the plane was, it's heading altitude and speed as of the last ping. We would be searching there.

And don't tell me how credible the news or government agencies is - so this must be right. Every one of them has screwed up more than one time.

You are much more knowledgeable than I, and at the same time the Twitter chatter seems to be getting more definitive. Messages containing location, altitude and speed were received ... alledgedly ... and Jon Ostrower is often a good source on such things. I've even seen one 'briefing' that the plane refuelled somewhere - which is either crazy or points to an enormously well planned cover up.

Seems so much has happened overnight, but yet nothing at the same time. However if such data exists, and includes the references mentioned it does seem this can be narrowed down to:

(1) Flight crew 'hijacking' for suicidal purposes
(2) More conventional hijacking for some unknown purpose
(3) System failure leading to either flight crew incapacitation but only after turning back

Per your comments, it may be slippery but the Malaysians may be correct in saying no ACARS data was received! But at the same time it sounds conspiratorial not to finished the sentence and say that "no" data was received at all/
 
Tobias2702
Posts: 287
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:39 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 75):
saw this being discussed on a Indian defense forum, but i'd never heard of these islands before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocos_(Keeling)_Islands

-apparently there is an airport there...and airstrips as well. It is in the Indian Ocean but much more down towards australia though.

Does anyone really believe a 777 could have landed on Australian territory without anyone noticing for a week?! CCK sees regular scheduled flights from Virgin Australia; and the airport is so small that any space "suddenly occupied by whatever a 777 might be hidden beneath" would be pretty evident.
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jcxroberts
Posts: 97
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:40 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 84):
Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 82):
It's a Chinese 'base' leased from Burma. You couldn't take off from there though in my opinion.

but according to the wiki article its an Australian territory. Why would China have a base there.

Sorry, there are the Coco islands (which I referred to) and the Cocos (which you referred to).
 
tomlee
Posts: 610
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:01 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:42 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 89):

Technically speaking if it was just the modem sending network management data it might not ever make very far and they might have gone digging pretty deep to find that info recently.
 
coolian2
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:34 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:42 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 88):
yeah i figured....what other islands are out that way...that could conceivablely not notice a 777.

My expertise is the Pacific, I just knew of the VA ops there. I'd grant an advanced group could probably pay off a small enough island to not notice, but they'd have to have no actual ops and I can think of nowhere like that. Even a big island like PNG seems deeply unlikely.

Every landing theory takes me back to the question of "how the hell do you make a 777 vanish?" and then I realise that a 777 has vanished.
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CaliAtenza
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:44 am

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 91):
Sorry, there are the Coco islands (which I referred to) and the Cocos (which you referred to).

ah okay. Is there an airstrip there? The wiki article on the Coco Islands didn't mention that there was.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:45 am

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 93):

Except keeping the 777 in a vanished state through a landing and take-off gets progressively harder vs. it just vanishing over open waters. The more you stick near land the higher chance you will be discovered and there is a limit to the vanishing act. If the plane is at the bottom of the ocean that act could be extended by quite a bit.
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:46 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 73):
Then we can see just how confusing it really is, instead of having them say it suggests this and that but doesn't confirm anything.

No. Military data shared with analytics partners doesn't need to be distributed to the entire world.

If these professionals (and they are likely the world's best) cannot extract coherent track information from it, then I don't see why appeasing the worlds armchair critics is a priority.

Absolutely nothing with "tamp down on rampant speculation".

We're into 22 pages of, and I am at a loss how to describe it, but absurdity comes to mind, about this entire affair. So much misinformation is being posted so fast, clarifications and factual posts get buried in a matter of minutes and the same misinformation/theories/hypotheses/speculation posted again and so it goes on and on neverending...

So many people here have shouted the poor Malaysians down. At every corner they have taken a beating. And if they give information (or another agency posts satellite images without clearance, for instance), then they don't know what they are doing, and if they don't then its a cover-up and they are hiding something.

There, as far as I am aware, in the history of aviation, never been a Search and Rescue mission that has involved this number of agencies. Ever. This makes it incredibly, incredibly hard, when you factor in that English is likely the common language, but is not native to any of these nations. I really feel for them, and I have watched them intently from the get go (I am a qualified Search Mission Co-Ordinator). Their subsequent 'defensive' stance now is not surprising.

I think I am with rcair here here...
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CaliAtenza
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:46 am

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 93):
My expertise is the Pacific, I just knew of the VA ops there. I'd grant an advanced group could probably pay off a small enough island to not notice, but they'd have to have no actual ops and I can think of nowhere like that. Even a big island like PNG seems deeply unlikely.

Every landing theory takes me back to the question of "how the hell do you make a 777 vanish?" and then I realise that a 777 has vanished.

i was looking at an article about airstrips in the Maldives; there are more than a few there, but all of them other than MLE seem way too small for a 777 to land on.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:48 am

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 96):

I think the Malaysians are doing a good job. And its not the military radar track data really but the plain text from the ACARS, and satcom which would be far less confidential.
 
coolian2
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:53 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 95):
Except keeping the 777 in a vanished state through a landing and take-off gets progressively harder vs. it just vanishing over open waters. The more you stick near land the higher chance you will be discovered and there is a limit to the vanishing act. If the plane is at the bottom of the ocean that act could be extended by quite a bit.

Exactly. I was being somewhat facetious, but I agree with the idea. I can't see the US Navy throwing a boat at a point in the Indian Ocean for laughs.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 97):
i was looking at an article about airstrips in the Maldives; there are more than a few there, but all of them other than MLE seem way too small for a 777 to land on.

Other than China, and there's no way on earth they'd miss a 777 approaching their territory, I can see anything within range based on maps I've seen.

I doubt there's a conspiracy, but there's no denying something really, really bizarre (over and above a plane crash) has happened.
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infinitybeyond
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:53 am

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 76):


I seriously doubt the SATCOM Pings containing altitude, heading and speed. That makes no sense to me - it is a piece of communications hardware - not navigation/aviation. AND if it did - we would KNOW where the plane was, it's heading altitude and speed as of the last ping. We would be searching there.

I think they may not mean exactly that SATCOM Pings contain altitude, heading and speed, just that some information regarding the location of the plane can be inferred from these messages.

For a message to be sent via Satellite communication it must have been done through a constellation of satellites and not just one of them. Connection is established when there is a triangulation, and you do move to other "stars" when you move, sort of like what your mobile phone is doing while driving.

If they are able to trace the SATCOM Pings towards the stars and correctly identify it as being sent from MH370, you should also have the reverse triangulation information.
 
slinky09
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:54 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 94):
ah okay. Is there an airstrip there? The wiki article on the Coco Islands didn't mention that there was.

Yes there is, plenty big enough for a 777 (runway is 8,009 ft).

But that's not to add fuel to the fire, if MH370 did touch down anywhere, where are the people, how did it refuel and where did it go. It has to be somewhere in the ocean, the theories about it still being on land require to, to many "what-ifs".
 
koruman
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:54 am

Quoting infinitybeyond (Reply 61):
When the plane was first reported missing, The CEO of Airasia tweeted that it landed safely in Nanning, China. If the plane did indeed turn west post the point of last contact, then made a turn back north in the Indian Ocean towards Nanning, then it could explain the mystery why it had flown for 4 extra hours.

China had been known to censor information coming out from the country, particularly in this case:
- The name of the Uighur artist was among one of the censored passengers in the first version of the published passenger manifesto
- The Uighur artist's weibo account (a microblogging service, the Chinese equivalent of twitter) was deleted immediately after the disappearance of the plane
- There was an official note coming from Chinese government to all media that they should not report on any unconfirmed rumors

The question now, is whether the Chinese propaganda machine is strong enough to hide an entire plane and all its passengers out of the world's sight. In this case, I would have suspected that everyone involved in Nanning airport (at 4 or 5 am local time) were ordered to have their lips shut tight while the passengers are all held hostage somewhere. This is beginning to sound more credible especially since there had been:

1. An Uighur terrorist attack in Kunming train station with some 30 killed just a week before the flight,
2. A terrorist attack in Beijing warning from someone who contacted the authority in Taipei mere days before and
3. A mass knife attack had just happened in the city of Changsha, which is also reported to have also an Uighur origin.

To be honest, I wouldn't believe a thing the Chinese government is saying now. It does look as if the US, China and to some extent Malaysian government know what had been going on but are not allowed to tell the public.

I believe that I wrote this two threads ago, or something very similar.

My guess is that the aircraft was hijacked, but not to Nanning civilian airport but rather was directed to a military airfield, where it was stormed with a success level similar to the 2010 Manila bus hijacking.

But this would involve massive loss of civilian lives due to Chinese special forces incompetence, and would simply have to be covered up to save face.

And if you think that the Malaysian government struggles with open disclosure, well imagine how this might have been covered up with a combination of evasion and deliberate misinformation.

It's only a theory. But it's hard to discount.
 
2008matt
Posts: 145
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:01 am

Just wondering, if the plane was hijacked, why would they fly to a Chinese Military Base?
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tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:01 am

Quoting infinitybeyond (Reply 100):
For a message to be sent via Satellite communication it must have been done through a constellation of satellites and not just one of them. Connection is established when there is a triangulation, and you do move to other "stars" when you move, sort of like what your mobile phone is doing while driving.

If they are able to trace the SATCOM Pings towards the stars and correctly identify it as being sent from MH370, you should also have the reverse triangulation information.

I think inmarsat's SwiftBroadband coverage map would show that even if it didn't transmit position data it would have to be inside one of the many beams the sat has for coverage thus serving as a sort of crude position measurement. (The altitude probably could be estimated as well based on ToF principles, to what degree of accuracy I don't know)

I also think inmarsat is based on geostationary orbits with a basically fixed sat serving a particular area under it (The orbit matches earth's rotation so it stays in sync)

Edit: if it uses a slower method they might be using one of the global beams not the spot beams so that would give a very poor positional fix.

[Edited 2014-03-14 01:04:17]
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:05 am

Quoting infinitybeyond (Reply 100):
For a message to be sent via Satellite communication it must have been done through a constellation of satellites and not just one of them. Connection is established when there is a triangulation

There is no need for that for a communications satellite.
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User avatar
Owleye
Posts: 485
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:05 am

MH370 passenger (uighur) Maimaitijiang Abula OR Yasheng Maimaitijiang followed flight sim lessons in Sweden...

Source: AD and Harian Metro

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/30360/verdwen...-Chinese-Oeigoerse-passagier.dhtml

[Edited 2014-03-14 01:14:07]

[Edited 2014-03-14 01:31:41]
 
Wolger
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:07 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22

Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:10 am

Quoting Owleye (Reply 106):

Where is the source for this?

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