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UALWN
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 71):
Investigators have also examined data transmitted from the plane’s Rolls-Royce engines that shows it descending 40,000 feet in the space of a minute, according to a senior American official briefed on the investigation.

So first the WSJ claims RR got data from the engines. Then it retracts this information: only pings from the plane to the communications satellite with no data. Now the NYT talks again about data from the engines! And people here complain about the Malaysians changing their story (they haven't).
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PW100
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 9):
This removes any doubts about the identity of those signals/pings. As all of this new info was coming along, I was taking the ping information with a grain of salt as well. However, now it is for certain that it was MH 370 as corroborated by INMARSAT themselves. This makes me much more comfortable with the westward flightpath hypothesis

It removes nothing. Inmarsat has confirmed they received "pings" from the airplane . . . as is to be expected as it operated normally FOR over an hour, of which 40+ minutes were airborne. Inmarsat has given no details as to whether pings were received after transponder signal was lost.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 15):
The INMARSTAT makes me much more comfortable with the fact that the plane was in flight for 5 some hours beyond radar drop-off

Inmarsat has given no details as to whether pings were received after transponder signal was lost. The only thing we have are news channels/papers citing unnamed "US officials" (who decides who is an official? - unnamed?) claiming pings were received for another four hours. Mind you, those were apparently magic bullet pings with loads of information on altitude, speed, heading etc etc.

Quoting hivue (Reply 21):
I believe it has not been established that ACARS shut down.

Agree, although probably poor choice of words. ACARS is not active full time, but at predetermined intervals, or even less. In this case, it appears that at least from the engine side, only three messages were planned for the full flight, two of which had been completed successfully. It would probably have taken another four hours or so before the next/last planned transmission. I don't see how one can conclude from that that the system was "shut down" when it did not send more than two messages. At least not from the engine side ACARS. I'm not sure if we have confirmation from the airframe side, but I believe MAS did not have that option activated.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 33):
What if the crew had a habit of relaxing cockpit security and inviting passengers in?

How would a potential hijacker know upfront to pick this crew/flight for his mission?

Quoting AT (Reply 39):
This is why the home of the flight crew needs to be searched and family members interviewed to the extent allowed by law. In the event it was just an accident, all that will come to naught; but if foul play by the crew was the cause, then this information will be pivotal

And that will help us exactly how to find the plane??
How would interviewing the family members help finding the plane? The younger copilot seems to be the main culprit according to some, would his family have knowledge of his/their secret plans? Then the senior Flight Sim enthusiast, even if he came up with such a clever plan to suicide/crash/hijack the plane in such a way that nobody is able to find the plane, surely he would be clever enough not to leave the training flights in his FS files, why bother taking some much care trying to avoid the known radar stations and find that radar black hole to crash/divert his aircraft . . .? Does not even pass the smell test at 4000 nautical miles.


PW100
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
iberiadc852
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 27):
Whether the Transponder was on or off makes zero difference to the pilot's ability to fly the thing.Rgds

Ok. But anyway, could we think of the 777 landing at night in a non standard airport but with any navigation (i.e. ILS) help?

Or iwould we better require a very skilled pilot to land a 777 at night in those airports because those helps would be extremely unlikely?
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:34 pm

Well with the CNN and NYT reports, something wild and chaotic was going on inside that aircraft.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:35 pm

Quoting PW100 (Reply 101):
How would a potential hijacker know upfront to pick this crew/flight for his mission?

I would research the planes, routes and crew members, etc., if I were going to try to hijack a plane...

I would take a few flights and see what goes on...
 
djm18
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:35 pm

Two Questions on NYT Article:

- How accurate would a primary radar be with respect to altitude?

- Given that it was early in the flight, could a 777 with significant fuel (5 hours +) on board reach FL450?
 
by738
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting Mitico12 (Reply 97):
Do you think the Malaysians knew this information all along, yet held it secret because it would strongly indicate that their pilot mass murdered a large amount of Chinese citizens and they would fear the fallout?

No
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:37 pm

Quoting davidzill (Reply 103):

If they have the insane engine altitude rate data why would it be so wildly inaccurate and discounted, does it use a independent measurement or a common system for the altitude tracking.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:38 pm

Quoting KL808 (Reply 94):
Just out of curiosity, is it possible for the pilot to disconnect the CVR on the 777?

He doesn't have to disconnect it, it only lasts so long then starts recording over itself. So if the airplane did fly for several hours after the westward turn we'll never here what happened at that time even if we do find the CVR.
 
hamiltondaniel
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:39 pm

Quoting DJM18 (Reply 105):
- Given that it was early in the flight, could a 777 with significant fuel (5 hours +) on board reach FL450?

KUL-PEK is a very light fuel load for a 777-200ER.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:40 pm

Quoting DJM18 (Reply 105):
Two Questions on NYT Article:

- How accurate would a primary radar be with respect to altitude?

The article addresses that.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
blueheronNC
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:41 pm

Quoting tomlee (Reply 107):
If they have the insane engine altitude rate data why would it be so wildly inaccurate and discounted, does it use a independent measurement or a common system for the altitude tracking.

Would a portion of the fuselage/wing including the engines breaking off and falling at terminal velocity allow for such a descent rate that would be reported back?



[Edited 2014-03-14 14:42:16]
 
DAL763ER
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:43 pm

I've been following the threads and am intrigued by the number of possible scenarios that went on that night. It's sad that we have no clue what happened. We're just entering day 7 and I've been thinking - how long are we going to keep throwing money at this? Sure, it's in everyone's best interest to find out what happened so we can improve. But a lot of resources have gone into this already and there's probably more on the line. So what happens if, 7 days from now, we're in the same position (i.e, nowhere)? How long is SAR expected to continue for before they deem it vanished?
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:44 pm

Quoting blueheronNC (Reply 111):

I highly doubt ACARS reports normal but invalid data if the engine falls off. And I am certain ACARS won't get data from an engine that isn't attached to the plane. The ACARS system needs the satcom modem to send the data if the engine seperated from the plane it falling wouldn't report back data. (no wireless datalinks yet) Not to mention a mountain of errors would be reported if an engine detached from a plane and it was still flying and sending data back.
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:46 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 104):

How can you predict the flight crew if you are not in an airline planning department? I guess they rotate crews and the schedule is not really known to the outsider...
 
aftgaffe
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:46 pm

OK, on any other day I would laugh if someone asked this question, but is there a way to parachute out of a 777 DB Cooper-style. I know the 727 hatch is long gone, but any chance?
 
Ideekay
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:46 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTN9tWr-3l8

Interesting, if they still would continue after those 5 hours, they could be over pakistan..
 
KL808
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:47 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 108):
He doesn't have to disconnect it, it only lasts so long then starts recording over itself. So if the airplane did fly for several hours after the westward turn we'll never here what happened at that time even if we do find the CVR.

Doesn't the 777 CVR have 120 minutes? Thats 4 hours! So you might be right. But it will be close
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:47 pm

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 112):
How long is SAR expected to continue for before they deem it vanished?

It's deemed vanished right now. If enough people get comfortable that it's actually at the bottom of the Indian Ocean then SAR efforts likely will be significantly scaled back.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:49 pm

Quoting k83713 (Reply 114):
How can you predict the flight crew if you are not in an airline planning department? I guess they rotate crews and the schedule is not really known to the outsider...

People talk...

They post on Facebook and Twitter...

They talk in the restaurant or at the bar, etc...

They talk about their day, their job, where they are going, how bad such and such an airport is, etc.

Is it really that hard to find out?
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:49 pm

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 112):

Day 7....and we are largely unsure of what ocean to even look in.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:50 pm

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 115):
is there a way to parachute out of a 777 DB Cooper-style.

DB Cooper left with cash. Why would anyone want to hijack a 777 just to skydive out of it?
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
DeltaAtl
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:50 pm

 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:50 pm

Quoting davidzill (Reply 120):

Day 7....and we are largely unsure of what ocean to even look in.

Or if we should look in the water...
 
aftgaffe
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:51 pm

Boeing pilots - will a 777 even allow you to climb above the service ceiling?
 
Mitico12
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:51 pm

OK. So let's say the new report of the aircraft taking two possible flight paths and crashing in the Indian Ocean, do you not believe that in the past seven days not ONE, SINGLE ship (cargo, merchant, fishing, military) crossed paths with any sort of debris in these areas...????
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:52 pm

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 115):
OK, on any other day I would laugh if someone asked this question, but is there a way to parachute out of a 777 DB Cooper-style. I know the 727 hatch is long gone, but any chance?

Of course you can.

Here you are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Airlines_Flight_812

But this poor bloke used a home-made parachute...   


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:53 pm

Quoting Mitico12 (Reply 125):
do you not believe that in the past seven days not ONE, SINGLE ship (cargo, merchant, fishing, military) crossed paths with any sort of debris in these areas...????

The Indian Ocean is very large and ships and 777s are very small.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
Mir
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 77):
Quoting flyenthu (Reply 72):
OK it is "preliminary assessment of data." We know where some initial analyses usually lead. How can frame integrity be maintained at 45000? The pressure difference between inside and outside will be huge.

Not too far off it's certified ceiling of 43100, so it's probably fine.

Flight at 45000 will not jeopardize the structural integrity of the airplane. Flight at 50000 wouldn't either. The cabin has its maximum differential pressure, and the safety valves will make sure that that pressure is not exceeded. What will happen is that the cabin will climb slightly in order to maintain that differential pressure at whatever altitude the plane happens to be at. The cabin altitude would have to double (i.e. get to 15,000 or 16,000 feet) before it became a danger to the passengers, and the airplane would run out of excess power to climb well before that happened.

The dangers involved in exceeding the service ceiling are aerodynamic ones, not pressurization ones.

Quoting KL808 (Reply 94):
Just out of curiosity, is it possible for the pilot to disconnect the CVR on the 777?

It likely is, as SOP in the event of an accident is to pull the CVR circuit breaker in order to prevent data from being overwritten by virtue of leaving the tape running (if the crew has a chance to, that is - obviously pulling the CB is of very low priority in relation to the rest of the tasks the crew would be faced with in the event of an accident).

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:56 pm

Most plausible explanation is pilot suicide I think. The communications were switched off deliberately, the aircraft was flown out to the middle of the Indian Ocean to be crashed there to confuse investigators and make it hard if not impossible to find the cause of the crash maybe to get insurance money for the family left behind.

[Edited 2014-03-14 15:01:59]
 
kpitrrat
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:56 pm

How far could that plane have flown on one engine? Would that have extended it's range?
 
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ADent
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:57 pm

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 115):
OK, on any other day I would laugh if someone asked this question, but is there a way to parachute out of a 777 DB Cooper-style. I know the 727 hatch is long gone, but any chance?

With a saw, plasma cutter, or explosives - sure.

The main doors swing forward - so no go while in flight, even with the plane depressurized. I assume the largish over wing exits on a 777 work similarly.
 
billreid
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:57 pm

Now CNN is reporting the NY Times states the aircraft climbed to FL450. That is peculiar. I don't know how easy it is to get a B777 to well above its service ceiling of FL410.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 115):

It seems as reasonable question in current circumstances. What about scan of the hand luggage? Would not be security team wondering why someone takes parachute aboard? If of course it's somehow read on the scan. If hijacking theory is developed now as the basic one, I would definitely look records of hand luggage scans to check the possibility.
Also to bring parallel, when they perform test flights for new airframes, pilots do wear parachutes, so it's not that impossible.
 
aftgaffe
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 121):
DB Cooper left with cash. Why would anyone want to hijack a 777 just to skydive out of it?

No idea. But it would appear like somebody[ies] who knew the 777, who knew how to fly, and who know how to evade a lot of detection put a lot of thought into "stealing" a plane. Was the whole plan simply to crash it in the middle of nowhere? Maybe, but certainly there's a reasonable maybe not.
 
Mir
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:59 pm

Quoting KL808 (Reply 117):
Doesn't the 777 CVR have 120 minutes? Thats 4 hours!

120 minutes is two hours, not four.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
kevinkevin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:00 pm

If this was pilot intention to sabotage this aircraft, I don't think the pilots should have access to turning off both the transponder or the ACARS system. Even so, why can't the transponder be left on with no off switch? Wouldn't it make life easier?
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:00 pm

Quoting KL808 (Reply 117):
Doesn't the 777 CVR have 120 minutes? Thats 4 hours! So you might be right. But it will be close

That's 2 hours on this planet.

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 124):
Boeing pilots - will a 777 even allow you to climb above the service ceiling?

Yes

Quoting Mitico12 (Reply 125):
OK. So let's say the new report of the aircraft taking two possible flight paths and crashing in the Indian Ocean, do you not believe that in the past seven days not ONE, SINGLE ship (cargo, merchant, fishing, military) crossed paths with any sort of debris in these areas...????

If it took the southern track there is absolutely nothing out there south of India until you get to Antarctica except Diego Garcia. No ships and probably not more than 1 or 2 planes a day -- it's not heavily traveled.
 
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zeke
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:01 pm

Quoting tomlee (Reply 113):

ACARS is a communication system a bit like a home router, it will route messages via VHF, HF, or satellite datalinks. The maintenance systems, ADS etc are not located in ACARS, they do however send data to and receive data from it.
"Airbus has the NEO. Boeing has the knee jerk" Judson Rollins in "10 Minutes About the A321XLR and Why Boeing Can’t Compete"
 
socalgeo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:05 pm

Quoting adriaticus (Reply 98):
"FIRST ON CNN: A classified analysis of electronic and satellite data conducted by the United States and Malaysian governments shows Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 likely crashed into the Indian Ocean on one of two flight paths, CNN has learned. One flight path suggests the plane crashed into the Bay of Bengal off the coast of India; the other has it traveling southeast and crashing elsewhere in the Indian Ocean, according to the analysis.

Interesting. I plotted the waypoints and the distance along the path described earlier is almost 1100 miles. I also read that the US Govt stated that the plane flew for another 4 or 5 hours after that. Assuming that after flying over 1000 miles the remaining range would be around 2200 miles... gives the red circle inthe map below.



Live Map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b52c362966934

I wish I could get the actual radar tracks, if they crashed before getting to India they must not have been flying in a straight line. If it flew towards the southeast and crashed, then perhaps it is somewhere along the red circle...

SoCalGeo
 
MarcoT
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:06 pm

Quoting adriaticus (Reply 98):
"FIRST ON CNN: A classified analysis of electronic and satellite data conducted by the United States and Malaysian governments shows Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 likely crashed into the Indian Ocean on one of two flight paths, CNN has learned. One flight path suggests the plane crashed into the Bay of Bengal off the coast of India; the other has it traveling southeast and crashing elsewhere in the Indian Ocean, according to the analysis.

ROTFL: so either was head or either was tail? And one need a classified analysis for that data...

Seriously, the fact that such a review, conducted under the auspices of the US, still cannot choose between the two competing hypothesis since day 2 just highlights the incredible difficulties of this search...
Too short space for my favorite hopelessly long winded one liner
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:07 pm

Quoting billreid (Reply 132):
Now CNN is reporting the NY Times states the aircraft climbed to FL450. That is peculiar. I don't know how easy it is to get a B777 to well above its service ceiling of FL410.

Maximum operating altitude is 43,100ft but if it was light enough it could possibly make FL450, depending on where the "coffin corner" is.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:07 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 138):

ACARS isn't the comm system it is a reporting system the Satcom modem, VHF, HF modules are the modems/gateway/routers. ACARS is an application which aggregates maintenance and airplane data which is sent along an available route. If an engine fell off it shouldn't report -45kfpm but a slew of other errors. (From what I understand ACARs is one of many systems which can use the satcom or other radio modems/transmitters)

Not to mention ACARS would never be able to retrieve data from an suddenly detached engine with it still saying things are fine.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:08 pm

Quoting billreid (Reply 132):
That is peculiar. I don't know how easy it is to get a B777 to well above its service ceiling of FL410.

I don't know about anyone else but this constant re-asking of questions that have been answered (sometimes multiple times) just a few posts earlier is getting on my nerves.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
aftgaffe
Posts: 176
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:10 pm

Quoting ADent (Reply 131):
With a saw, plasma cutter, or explosives - sure.

The main doors swing forward - so no go while in flight, even with the plane depressurized. I assume the largish over wing exits on a 777 work similarly.
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 126):
Of course you can.

Here you are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Airlines_Flight_812

But this poor bloke used a home-made parachute...   

Who knows then. Maybe he/she/them programmed the A/P for flight toward the Indian Ocean where it would crash from fuel exhaustion, but bailed when the plane tracked back over Malaysia.

I have no idea why and I'm fully aware this sounds insane.

Just seems weird if this was the meticulously-planned operation it appears to have been that the end game was nothing more than suicide in the middle of nowhere.

Other explanations are available, I realize. UA 93, perhaps. Hijacker who refused to believe that flight didn't have fuel enough to go where he wanted to go. But nothing really seems to make sense since whoever took the plane seems to have known A LOT about flying.
 
Mitico12
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:11 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 137):
If it took the southern track there is absolutely nothing out there south of India until you get to Antarctica except Diego Garcia. No ships and probably not more than 1 or 2 planes a day -- it's not heavily traveled.

If that's the case, then let's hope the person that comandeered the A/C made everyone hypoxic because to ditch in the middle of an "oceanic nowhere" is very difficult for me to digest for the people on that plane.

To think (if people were alive), we're ditching in the middle of an Indian Ocean where we have absolutely ZERO chance of being seen by any ships or planes.

I will pray for the souls.
 
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garpd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:12 pm

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 124):
Boeing pilots - will a 777 even allow you to climb above the service ceiling?

In theory it will keep climbing until the wings stop producing enough lift to sustain flight. Then it practically stalls.
FL430 is the stated max service ceiling with a margin for safety. I'm not sure exactly what the highest is a 777 will go before it drops out of the sky.

Google "Coffin Corner"

[Edited 2014-03-14 15:14:09]
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AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:16 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 146):
I'm not sure exactly what the highest is a 777 will go before it drops out of the sky.

Would depend on weight and outside air temp. I don´t think they would´ve been able to climb more than to 45,000 ft.
 
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7BOEING7
Posts: 3039
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:18 pm

Quoting Mitico12 (Reply 145):
To think (if people were alive), we're ditching in the middle of an Indian Ocean where we have absolutely ZERO chance of being seen by any ships or planes

No but you have ELTs in each of the 8 slide/rafts you're floating around in which would have had rescue parties on site several days ago. What's going on now is not!!! a rescue mission.
 
rcair1
Posts: 1147
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:39 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:18 pm

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 72):
We know where some initial analyses usually lead. How can frame integrity be maintained at 45000?

Service ceiling is more related to performance than pressurization - also the speed at which an a/c can descend to safe altitude in the case of sudden depressurization. I would expect the hull to survive this fine.
However, this is above the service ceiling and the a/c could stall. The same report says it descended "unevenly" to 23K.
BUT - how confident are we of this. If it is primary radar data from a distance, it is problematic at best.

I think we need to wait for some more confirmation on this before we call it factual.
For instance, the SATCOM pings - the company who detected them and reported them is not confirming how long they received them.

This whole investigation is quite dynamic and confusing.

Unfortunately - in the understandable desire to 'report progress' combined with the desire by news agencies to "report first' I think there is some loosy goosey reporting going on both the parts of news media and officials.

Quoting DJM18 (Reply 105):
Given that it was early in the flight, could a 777 with significant fuel (5 hours +) on board reach FL450?

Probably - momentarily. Climbing hard and overshooting ceiling.

Quoting KL808 (Reply 117):
Doesn't the 777 CVR have 120 minutes? Thats 4 hours! So you might be right. But it will be close

Last time I checked, there were 60 minutes in an hour - so that's 2 hours.  
rcair1
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