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vfw614
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:52 am

Quoting airplanebrain (Reply 242):
On a 777, how long will the CVR continue before being overrun? If the plane flew 4 hours past its disappearance, is possible that we will never hear what happened in the cockpit because the CVR recorded over itself.

Interesting point. Could explain why the aircraft flew for four hours after a possible "take-over" - to make sure no recordings will be found that document the take-over. So anyone witn positive knowledge how long the recordings will last before being overrun?
 
Mul
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:52 am

Can a satellite phone be used while on the plane? I wonder if the govts have checked for any sat phone records to figure out any communications made.
 
cptkrell
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:52 am

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 233):
Of which most are small aircraft, or occurred 40-50 years ago with a tiny fraction of the technological power we have today.

Unfortunately today's technological power have produced about zero results in the past week.
all best; jack
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:52 am

Quoting ksbd (Reply 249):
Maybe a midair collision that did not result in a total loss

Then we would be looking for a 2nd aircraft. Who would be in the flight levels other than airliners? Malaysia apparently had them on PSR right from LKP at IGARI, they would know if someone else was there.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
456
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:53 am

According to CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/14/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) they are now offically looking in the indian ovean itself.

Quote:
The analysis used radar data and satellite pings to calculate that the plane diverted to the west, across the Malayan peninsula, and then either flew in a northwest direction toward the Bay of Bengal or southwest into the Indian Ocean.

So the plane made a turn either to the north or the south... Hmmm interesting before I go to sleep!
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:54 am

just a theory, but what if there was a fire in the cockpit that took out most relevant systems, but was controlled in time to keep the autopilot active. maybe the fire was something not quite as bad as this:

http://avherald.com/img/egypt_b772_su-gdb_cairo_110729_1.jpg

the plane kept flying without a cockpit. is that possible?
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:54 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 250):
Interesting point. Could explain why the aircraft flew for four hours after a possible "take-over" - to make sure no recordings will be found that document the take-over. So anyone witn positive knowledge how long the recordings will last before being overrun?

I believe it would be specific to the model of CVR used on the accident a/c. The minimum legal requirement is 30 minutes. I don't know what standard equipment for the CVR is on a 777, or if the buyer can choose. It could record more.

It does surprise me that we can have FDRs that record a crapton of data for 50+ hours, but CVRs are still in the stone age. Maybe privacy concerns? Recording cockpit jabber from a previous flight?
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:57 am

In regards to the hypoxia theory, that the plane just kept flying until it ran out of fuel... Is there something, like how trains have a "dead man's switch" that needs to be manually activated every so often as to confirm that the pilots are still alive? I don't think there is but I am no expert. If there is not, and the combination of auto-pilot / hypoxia scenario is possible (Helios, Payne Stewart)... could it be an idea that something similar to a dead man's switch is fitted to aircraft so that, for instance, every 15 or 30 mins, especially with the auto-pilot on or if it detects that no switches / buttons in the cockpit have been used, the pilot then gets an alert and then has to manually press a button to confirm that somebody is still alive at the controls? If this did not occur, and the pilot failed to acknowledge after so many warnings, a message could be relayed to the ground automatically that nobody in the cockpit is responding... Just a thought...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:57 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 18):
Quoting spacecadet (Reply 3):
It's not our place to do that. Imagine if there was a plane crash in Iowa and when our investigation stalled, Russia instead just started holding press conferences about it and announcing their findings. How offensive would that be?

So to be clear, you are suggesting that not offending the local bureaucrats is a higher priority than conducting the most effective search, rescue, and recovery.

Another thing. Malaysia isn't the United States and the United States isn't Russia. If it offends the Malaysians that we have far more resources and capabilities to conduct a search, then who honestly cares?

Malaysia is a sovereign country. You can't just go stomp all over their sovereignty. Diplomacy is often frustrating, but it is better than the alternative.

Besides, we don't know that effort has not been as effective as it could be. All we know is that press relations have been bad, but improving.

Quoting KL808 (Reply 94):
Just out of curiosity, is it possible for the pilot to disconnect the CVR on the 777?

If foul play did happen, I hope that this did not occur like what had happened to MI 185

Sure. Just a CB.

Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 130):
How far could that plane have flown on one engine? Would that have extended it's range?

Flying on one engine means you can't keep altitude and have to drift down to a lower altitude. This and drag effects means significantly reduced range.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 154):
can the autopilot store multiple routes at once? Like say for example, lets say the pilot or co-pilot had programmed this route that we now know took the plane to the indian ocean, but then they just kept it stored away? They fly the normal climb out from KL but then at the handoff point, it gets switched over to the other route? Is that possible?

First off, the autopilot does not store routes. That's done by the Flight Management Computer. The autopilot can take inputs from the FMC. But yes, you can store routes there. But what would be the point? You can punch in a new route by hand in a few minutes.

Quoting eal46859 (Reply 160):
Why does the Transponder on any commercial airliner even have the ability to be turned off ? Is there a reason or situation that a commercial airliner would not want to have the transponder on?
Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 166):
What should NOT be possible is completely disabling the transponder while in flight. Perhaps that will be something we see changed if we can figure out what happened here.

Asked and answered but I'll summarize again.
1. At ATC request to lower saturation.
2. During maintenance when the plane is powered up without the intent of movement.
3. Power cycling the transponder to "reboot" if it has a fault.
4. To isolate it in case of electrical malfunction. Just like every other electrical gizmo on the plane, the circuit breaker can be pulled. This is a safety feature to prevent and mitigate electrical fires and other issues.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 189):
I am not a psychologist myself but I wonder if somehow with a depersonalization or derealization disorder could just decide to put in practice what he made in the simulator. At the end that simulator seemed really accurate and the pilot could please himself as he wanted at home. Are those simulations recorded?

As far as I can tell, the home sim was running Microsoft Flight Simulator. You can record sessions but the default is "off".
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
456
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:57 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 256):
Maybe privacy concerns?

Yeah it might be privay, however I hpe that safety (or solving an incident in order to increase safety) would be more important than safety.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:00 am

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 112):

I've been following the threads and am intrigued by the number of possible scenarios that went on that night. It's sad that we have no clue what happened. We're just entering day 7 and I've been thinking - how long are we going to keep throwing money at this? Sure, it's in everyone's best interest to find out what happened so we can improve. But a lot of resources have gone into this already and there's probably more on the line. So what happens if, 7 days from now, we're in the same position (i.e, nowhere)? How long is SAR expected to continue for before they deem it vanished?

The SAR effort will likely continue for years if the plane is not found. However it will be severely scaled back.

Yes, it will cost money, but in the grand scheme of things not much. Someone mentioned that the entire AF447 recovery effort cost US$40m. That's less than a half of what a new 777 costs. The insurance companies and Boeing have a good incentive to foot the bill.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Stretch
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:00 am

I wonder how much this singular event will change the way airlines and manufacturers "fool proof" comms/tracking systms for the future?

This is the largest aviation event/anomaly we've seen since 9/11.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:00 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 246):
What about active phased array radar and OTH radar? Surely there's enough of those in the region, especially India.

When the target is silent only thing helps is how powerful your radar is. rcair1 explained it earlier. Airborne Warning Systems are more popular than land based OTH radars. India's surveillance assets are concentrated in North and Arabian Sea. They are improving in Bay of Bengal and Indian Ocean. It is getting 9 more P8-Is.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 246):
OK but radar imaging is NOT radar surveillance in the aviation sense. They cannot track anything like that, it is just for imaging.

Not for real time tracking but for later screening and SAR ops. If you have a regular imaging satellite you don't know what is under the cloud, you have to wait for next scan of same are without cloud. Radar imaging satellites don't have that issue.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 246):
2 imaging satellites will not help them patrol the skies around their border.

Well, there are only 5 countries in the world with that capability.

[Edited 2014-03-14 18:12:20]
All posts are just opinions.
 
ksbd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:01 am

Quote:
Quoting ksbd (Reply 249):
Maybe a midair collision that did not result in a total loss

Then we would be looking for a 2nd aircraft. Who would be in the flight levels other than airliners? Malaysia apparently had them on PSR right from LKP at IGARI, they would know if someone else was there.

I'm talking about a possible midair with maybe a drone, missile, military aircraft or rear pressure bulkhead explosion. I see no reason for a 777 to ascend 45000 feet without some sort of mechanical problem. Also flying at 23000 does not make much sense either and also fits the JAL 123 example.
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:02 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 211):
Anyone notice that the Chinese govt has repeatedly attempted to shift focus away from searching the West by releasing information pointing at the original point of lost contact? Then that information is debunked... The "seismic sea floor event" being the latest distraction. Why would the Chinese do this?

I have made this point the whole time. First the Satellite images. Then the seismic activity. But then again, I got REEMED for being xenophobic and irrational.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:05 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 262):
Not for real time tracking but for later screening and SAR ops. If you have a regular imaging satellite you don't know what is under the cloud, you have to wait for next scan of same are without cloud. Radar imaging satellites don't have that issue.

This is true.

Also, space-based radar surveillance is not a science fiction concept, we just wouldn't know if anyone has built one. The power required would be immense.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:07 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 258):

First off, the autopilot does not store routes. That's done by the Flight Management Computer. The autopilot can take inputs from the FMC. But yes, you can store routes there. But what would be the point? You can punch in a new route by hand in a few minutes.

ah okay, yeah the FMC, that's what i meant to say  . Thanks for the clarification  . Why i asked is that the turn was pretty sharp; almost instantaneous, after that handoff...so maybe the route was ready to go instead of someone taking the time to input the routes. I mean whoever did it, has to know what the waypoints are, what airway it is, where it goes, etc, etc....this really seems to me that it was either one of the two up front or somebody on the manifest that has flight experience.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:07 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 262):
When the target is silent only thing helps is how powerful your radar is.

Also - right, I'm aware, but military has power... The modern phased arrays are highly sensitive and can accurately calculate altitude, as far as I know. When target is up high, range is very high too... Would airborne be flying 24/7, and what would they range be like?

[Edited 2014-03-14 18:09:21]
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:08 am

Quoting Stretch (Reply 261):
I wonder how much this singular event will change the way airlines and manufacturers "fool proof" comms/tracking systms for the future?

What do you think about this idea I proposed below? Assuming something similar is not already in use...

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 257):
In regards to the hypoxia theory, that the plane just kept flying until it ran out of fuel... Is there something, like how trains have a "dead man's switch" that needs to be manually activated every so often as to confirm that the pilots are still alive? I don't think there is but I am no expert. If there is not, and the combination of auto-pilot / hypoxia scenario is possible (Helios, Payne Stewart)... could it be an idea that something similar to a dead man's switch is fitted to aircraft so that, for instance, every 15 or 30 mins, especially with the auto-pilot on or if it detects that no switches / buttons in the cockpit have been used, the pilot then gets an alert and then has to manually press a button to confirm that somebody is still alive at the controls? If this did not occur, and the pilot failed to acknowledge after so many warnings, a message could be relayed to the ground automatically that nobody in the cockpit is responding... Just a thought...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:09 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 265):

Also, space-based radar surveillance is not a science fiction concept, we just wouldn't know if anyone has built one. The power required would be immense.

Weren't the Soviets and the US trying to do this during the Cold War?...i swear i read about this somewhere....
 
372375
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:10 am

I don't believe that the plane landed, but I like the thought of it. Just curious: how hard is it to change the fixed 24-bit ide tification code for Mode-s transponder. Would it be possible to re-enable the transponder only to appear like a completely different aircraft/flight? Again this is not something I believe has happened, just a thought that crossed my mind  
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:12 am

Quoting socalgeo (Reply 236):
No problen - I've added the USGS earthquake map service to the layers list in the live map if you want to explore.

You're maps are great. I put together a map for figuring out where the Tomnod images were, but your map takes the cake. Thank you.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
solarflyer22
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:13 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 256):
I believe it would be specific to the model of CVR used on the accident a/c. The minimum legal requirement is 30 minutes. I don't know what standard equipment for the CVR is on a 777, or if the buyer can choose. It could record more.

I think its union driven but on CNN they said two hours.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:14 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 269):
Weren't the Soviets and the US trying to do this during the Cold War?...i swear i read about this somewhere....

The Soviets put some in LEO with nuclear reactors. With LEO for constant surveillance of a large area you need a huge constellation. With geostationary orbit, you'd need absolutely incredible amounts of power due to R^4. It's physically possible, though I doubt it has been attempted recently. I'm sure heat would be a concern.

[Edited 2014-03-14 18:17:29]
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:17 am

I'm sure the sonar guys on on the U.S.S. Kidd will be working around the clock.
 
jcxroberts
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:17 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 211):
Anyone notice that the Chinese govt has repeatedly attempted to shift focus away from searching the West by releasing information pointing at the original point of lost contact? Then that information is debunked... The "seismic sea floor event" being the latest distraction.


They want to normalize the use of their military in that area, which is highly disputed.
 
Stretch
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:58 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:18 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 257):
In regards to the hypoxia theory, that the plane just kept flying until it ran out of fuel... Is there something, like how trains have a "dead man's switch" that needs to be manually activated every so often as to confirm that the pilots are still alive? I don't think there is but I am no expert. If there is not, and the combination of auto-pilot / hypoxia scenario is possible (Helios, Payne Stewart)... could it be an idea that something similar to a dead man's switch is fitted to aircraft so that, for instance, every 15 or 30 mins, especially with the auto-pilot on or if it detects that no switches / buttons in the cockpit have been used, the pilot then gets an alert and then has to manually press a button to confirm that somebody is still alive at the controls? If this did not occur, and the pilot failed to acknowledge after so many warnings, a message could be relayed to the ground automatically that nobody in the cockpit is responding... Just a thought...

Something along that line may work, but we have to plan a way to "prove" the authenticity of this action. Who pushed the button, and are they in complete control of the aircraft. Press the switch and smile for the camera?
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:19 am

Quoting ksbd (Reply 249):
The altitude changes seem reminiscent of JAL 123. Since the service ceiling is 41000, there is no real benefit for a hijacker (or otherwise) to ascend to that flight level. Maybe a midair collision that did not result in a total loss, followed by a rapid decompression, followed by a last ditch effort to change course back to known land (under the effects of hypoxia?).

Service ceiling is 43,100 feet, according to several sources.
 
747megatop
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:19 am

Quoting davidzill (Reply 274):

I'm sure the sonar guys on on the U.S.S. Kidd will be working around the clock.

Wonder what the sonar range is. Also, won't adding submarines to the search make sense too?
 
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Stitch
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:20 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 273):
The Soviets put some in LEO with nuclear reactors.

But their RORSATS only had the imaging power to find large ships and task forces, not a 777 in flight.

A US Lacrosse bird might be able to do it, but not sure how well it would image against the ocean.

[Edited 2014-03-14 18:24:20]
 
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N328KF
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:22 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 278):
Wonder what the sonar range is. Also, won't adding submarines to the search make sense too?

It'd have to be active sonar. Range is shoddy and won't help much if the aircraft is lying in the trench. Subs can do better (they can go below the layer with active sonar) but ultimately, if they don't find it in short order, they'll have to bring someone like Robert Ballard/Woods Hole. I should not have to tell everyone the list of accomplishments of that group.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 279):
But their RORSATS only had the imaging power to find large ships and task forces, not a 777 in flight.

Boeing's FIA (successor to Lacrosse) could probably accomplish this, but there's only one. Who knows what else might be in orbit that is classified that could do it on a constant scale. LaCrosse has the ability to monitor ground vehicles, but I don't think it does atmospheric vehicles well.

Most of the focus in this area is on BMD, which would not need to be as close as a tactical/theater-wide system for monitoring air that one would use in this case.

[Edited 2014-03-14 18:26:52]
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:22 am

Quoting Stretch (Reply 276):
Something along that line may work, but we have to plan a way to "prove" the authenticity of this action. Who pushed the button, and are they in complete control of the aircraft. Press the switch and smile for the camera?

I'm not suggesting it as a means to alert the ground to hi-jacking, but as a means to rule out hypoxia and know that somebody is flying the plane and that the plane is not just flying on auto-pilot until empty.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:23 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 278):
Wonder what the sonar range is. Also, won't adding submarines to the search make sense too?

wouldn't doubt there are a couple SSBNs in the water....i'm sure there always are. As far as i know, they usually don't announce if there is a sub there or not.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:24 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 279):
But their RORSATS only had the imaging power to find large ships and task forces, not a 777 in flight.

No doubt, but they were designed in the 60s! We have highly sensitive receivers and enough compute power to throw at filtering noise now. Anyhow, it would be nice if someone were to build it again. These sorts of things certainly wouldn't happen anymore.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
ksbd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:24 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 277):
Service ceiling is 43,100 feet, according to several sources.

43,100 feet is still not 45,000 feet.
 
PDXflyer31
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:25 am

I have a theory.

The plane was flown to Burma. Its being taken apart and shipped to China in crates, to be reverse engineered. China did this before with an A319/320 that disappeared off the books maybe 10 years ago, although pax were not involved in that one. Why would the Chinese gov't pick a loaded plane that's already flying to China, carrying 150+ Chinese nationals? Because nobody would suspect them. Its perfect. And they're doing it with another country's plane, so they wouldn't have to coerce/pay off one of their own airlines like they most likely did with that Airbus.

The captain or first officer - whichever one the Chinese gov't paid off - now has millions of dollars and a new identity in China. The Myanmar (Burma) gov't is in on it. The pax? There would not be any place for them in this scenario, unfortunately.
 
socalgeo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:26 am

Quoting LandSweetLand (Reply 237):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 234):Does anybody know of the main shipping lanes in the Indian Ocean?You can have a look at www.marinetraffic.com to see where broadcasting ships are at the moment. Unfortunately, like ads-b it requires stations to pick it up.

I added a shippings lanes map service to the map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b52c362966934

Its not really great, but it is interesting.

SoCalGeo
 
Stretch
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:28 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 281):
I'm not suggesting it as a means to alert the ground to hi-jacking, but as a means to rule out hypoxia and know that somebody is flying the plane and that the plane is not just flying on auto-pilot until empty.

I see what you're getting at. How about a simple O2 sensor then? If below x amount of O2 signal sent as an alert to the ground
 
socalgeo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:28 am

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 271):
You're maps are great. I put together a map for figuring out where the Tomnod images were, but your map takes the cake. Thank you.

Thanks! If you have coordinates and url links for any of the Tomnod images I can add them...

SoCalGeo
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:29 am

Quoting PDXflyer31 (Reply 285):
The plane was flown to Burma. Its being taken apart and shipped to China in crates, to be reverse engineered. China did this before with an A319/320 that disappeared off the books maybe 10 years ago, although pax were not involved in that one.

I have been saying the same thing as a theory (not that I believe it, but as a theory) since Part 7 for almost the exact same reasoning you have and was crowned Xenophobic and irrational by most.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:29 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 282):
wouldn't doubt there are a couple SSBNs in the water....i'm sure there always are. As far as i know, they usually don't announce if there is a sub there or not.

Let's see...we have around 50 active SSNs...or let's use a strategic asset like an SSBN...
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undertheradar
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:30 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 257):

I cant comment on MAS procedures...but I do know that on some airlines, cabin crew are REQUIRED to make call the flight deck via the interphone (the handsets you see at every crew seat..and in galley areas) at least every 30mins...and IF there is no response by the flight deck, then there are 'next steps' that cabin crew take...sorry I cant explain more..its security sensitive info....so IF the cabin crew were still conscious...the flight deck crew only needs to tell the cabin crew that 'everything is fine...' and the cabin crew is none the wiser...
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:30 am

Quoting Stretch (Reply 287):

I see what you're getting at. How about a simple O2 sensor then? If below x amount of O2 signal sent as an alert to the ground

ACARS probably reports, or can report, cabin pressure.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting socalgeo (Reply 288):
Thanks! If you have coordinates and url links for any of the Tomnod images I can add them...
http://mh370.exodus.vyinnovation.com - you probably know how to pull it from the source code, but if not, I can send it to you in a CSV if you want.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:34 am

Sonar range of the Kidd is unknown to me, its most likely classified. I'm sure we sent at least a few submarines to the area, who have classified, top-notch sonar. Those things can pick up voices on another submarine miles away.

[Edited 2014-03-14 18:35:00]
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:36 am

Quoting PDXflyer31 (Reply 285):

Burma/Myanmar is chairing ASEAN this year for the first time ever.
Part of the reason Burma was able to reform so quickly was its inclusion in ASEAN which gave it some economic and political security. They're not going to do anything to jeopordise that

http://asean2014.gov.mm/2014-chairmanship
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:36 am

If the aircraft is where the U.S. Navy is searching, we will find it, probably this weekend. Time is of the essence because of the time limit of the black box beacon
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:36 am

Quoting undertheradar (Reply 291):
I cant comment on MAS procedures...but I do know that on some airlines, cabin crew are REQUIRED to make call the flight deck via the interphone (the handsets you see at every crew seat..and in galley areas) at least every 30mins...and IF there is no response by the flight deck, then there are 'next steps' that cabin crew take...sorry I cant explain more..its security sensitive info....so IF the cabin crew were still conscious...the flight deck crew only needs to tell the cabin crew that 'everything is fine...' and the cabin crew is none the wiser...

As long as the cabin crew were able to get a message to the ground that sounds good. The thing about this mystery is that nobody on the ground knows much.

Quoting Stretch (Reply 287):
I see what you're getting at. How about a simple O2 sensor then? If below x amount of O2 signal sent as an alert to the ground

That would be useful, but it still wouldn't alert the ground if anybody was alive. If a button had to be pressed, and it was pressed, then somebody would have to be pressing it indicating life in the cockpit.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:43 am

Quoting PDXflyer31 (Reply 285):
The plane was flown to Burma. Its being taken apart and shipped to China in crates, to be reverse engineered. China did this before with an A319/320 that disappeared off the books maybe 10 years ago, although pax were not involved in that one. Why would the Chinese gov't pick a loaded plane that's already flying to China, carrying 150+ Chinese nationals? Because nobody would suspect them. Its perfect. And they're doing it with another country's plane, so they wouldn't have to coerce/pay off one of their own airlines like they most likely did with that Airbus.

Why would they do that? China owns dozens of 777s, if not a hundred or more. They have more than enough to study.
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maxpower1954
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:45 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 199):
I meant passenger flight... certainly cargo is commercial too.

Partial list of missing passenger commercial flights that vanished without a trace...just off the top of my head.

1938 - Hawaii Clipper, Pan American Airways

1948 - Star Tiger, BSAA Avro Tudor

1949 - Star Ariel, BSAA Avro Tudor

1951 - Canadian Pacific DC-4

1953 - Skyways of London Avro York

1962 - Flying Tigers Super Constellation

If you meant passenger JET airliner, then MH 370 would be the first if it remains missing.
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