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pvjin
Posts: 3586
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:41 am

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 248):

So what if he got it to Iran, and even managed to land it?

The Iranian authorities would have arrested the hijacker & informed rest of the world and rebooked the pax.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 220):
Ask the Chinese what they did with MH370 as they certainly did something with it.

Everything suggests that someone hijacked the 777, flew it towards Africa / Antarctica for hours and finally ditched / crashed it somewhere in middle of nothing.

[Edited 2014-03-15 02:45:09]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:42 am

Quoting k83713 (Reply 240):
I believe all pilots are under close observation of security departments taking into account general common sense and also recent events with suicides.

Umm, no... There is no NSA type surveillance from the company.

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 243):
New York Times reporting that Malaysian Prime Minister says plane was deliberately diverted:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/wo...ysia-airlines-flight.html?hp&_r=0.

And we talked about that a while ago. A simple text search would have told you that.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:44 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 231):
Well even without number rearranging there's still clear link between the Mozambique Airlines 470 & MH370.

Someone influenced by the LAM470 could have chosen a flight with similar number.

I just don't believe it's coincidence when these two events happened within 5 months of each other.

Why do you believe the numbers are significant over the sequence of events which don't match up why hide the fact with the transponder and mess around with ACARS if your doing a copycat suicide.
 
piliage
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:45 am

If that i

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 235):
CaliAtenza (Reply 219):
Being briefed by Malaysia officials they believe most likely location for MH370 is on land somewhere near Chinese/Kyrgyz border.

Kyrgyzstan is certainly one of the most corrupt countries on earth, but Manas is a 'big' US military base. Plus, with the boarders between China, Russia and the stans, I'm a bit reluctant to think a big 777 just rolled in there after daylight undetected.
 
VC315
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:46 am

Quoting ivanoruvan (Reply 247):
I was surprised that Chinese released suspected crash satellite images only to retract immediately saying it was a 'mistake'. What does that mean? What was the 'mistake'?

China did not officially retract it, Malaysia did. and there's even a BBC article on it - basically saying Malaysia denied it, but Chinese state TV still runs long after the debunking. "Hishammuddin Hussein also denied a US report that Flight MH370 might have flown for hours after contact was lost. Chinese state TV is still treating the pictures as relevant and says a warship is continuing to hunt for the debris."

see: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26559627
 
chaseus1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:47 am

I think in a fire the crew would have declared a mayday... I think the pilot was attacked as part of a takeover. If the fire was that bad, the plane wouldn't have flown that long in my opinion.
 
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pvjin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:47 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 253):
Why do you believe the numbers are significant over the sequence of events which don't match up why hide the fact with the transponder and mess around with ACARS if your doing a copycat suicide.

Maybe the hijacker didn't want to be an exact copycat, maybe he rather mixed the ET hijack (where the aircraft flew for hours before landing) and the LAM suicide.

Maybe he wanted to avoid attracting any military aircraft, after all if ATC notices aircraft changing its course away from regular flight path and it doesn't answer to ATC I'm sure some military aircraft would be sent to follow it.

Or maybe he just wanted to make the whole thing more difficult for investigators?

[Edited 2014-03-15 02:49:56]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:48 am

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 248):
KLM 836 which I'm pondering that MH370 could have closely followed to avoid radar problems

The theory is viable but though a bit too spectacular. How would MH glue to KL at the right moment? It would require some circling to wait for KL plane, because not likely it would catch up with it taking into account cruise speed of KL, it was not slow. Needs timeline to understand how they met. Also we know that MH flew through waypoints, and though the pattern was strange, I find it very diffcult to find proper waypoints to be on time for shadowing...
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:49 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 252):
Umm, no... There is no NSA type surveillance from the company.

Technically a company can do more than NSA type surveillance depending on local laws even in the US I think if your on the job using company equipment for work related activities then almost everything is fair game. (Point in case a pilot is being recorded both in every input they make as well as every word they say and they want cameras too for image info)

In a workplace you can install root certs and sniff even SSL traffic + plaintext for info leaks or illegal activities, you can record company calls (you just have to tell non-company people the call is being recorded for quality purposes). Keyloggers, image capture, video recording, centralized storage, remote management, remote wipe, ...

Mind you all of these things are meant to protect customer data normally (employee's trade their on work privacy to protect customer's privacy) not that tons of data doesn't still get leaked out. A company carrying out oppressive monitoring regimes which employee's don't buy into or are unaware of can seriously affect productivity and efficiency and arguably cause "revolts", high turnover, lack of work ethic, ....
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:50 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 251):
So what if he got it to Iran, and even managed to land it? The Iranian authorities would have arrested the hijacker & informed rest of the world and rebooked the pax.

Uh, not if it was Iran that wanted what was on the stinking 777.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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pvjin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:52 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 260):
Uh, not if it was Iran that wanted what was on the stinking 777.

I can't imagine anything so valuable that it would make Iran hijack an airliner. North Korea could do something like that, not Iran.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:53 am

Quoting Piliage (Reply 254):

Kyrgyzstan is certainly one of the most corrupt countries on earth, but Manas is a 'big' US military base. Plus, with the boarders between China, Russia and the stans, I'm a bit reluctant to think a big 777 just rolled in there after daylight undetected.

i have real doubts about this too now, but its from a BBC guy...i mean why would he risk his reputation on flimsy info/false info..??
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:53 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 257):
Maybe the hijacker didn't want to be an exact copycat, maybe he rather mixed the ET hijack (where the aircraft flew for hours before landing) and the LAM suicide.

Maybe he wanted to avoid attracting any military aircraft. Or maybe he just wanted to make the whole thing more difficult for investigators?

Wait why would an actually suicidal person care about how they die, why would they want to make it so hard to figure out and go through so much effort to cover their tracks. Not to mention ET702 didn't end with the perpetrator dying so can't even be called a copy cat crime. Also you don't "mix" copycat crimes and I doubt just because hijackings happen they are all related.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:56 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 262):
i have real doubts about this too now, but its from a BBC guy...i mean why would he risk his reputation on flimsy info/false info..??

The limits of the satcom data position are probably based on using the radar track plus fuel range plus a bit of a guess on where it might be going.

That being said the satcom position estimate is horribly inaccurate (it has two solutions and isn't ever going to have anywhere near GPS precision as it is based on a single sat with its largest global beam and trying to use network/signal data to guess how far away it is, a number of conditions could cause the signal strength and corresponding distance to follow strange paths including doing banking, atmospheric conditions, ionosphere conditions, ...) It is no wonder it took so long as the data is probably almost garbage.
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:56 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 262):
North Korea could do something like that, not Iran.

North Korea taking plane with so many Chinese citizens aboard? I don't think it's in line with their economical survival model of threats ending with nothing. Hijacking a plane is too hi-tech, it's serious offense to so many countries, including their semi-ally China, it just doesn't make any political gain for them to do and not technically probable..
 
sierra3tango
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:57 am

One thought .....

Seem to recall that a week ago there were reports from the families / friends in Beijing that they had rung PAX and
there were 'ringing tones' but the phones weren't answered

Which would suggest the aircraft must have been near enough to a cell mast, therefore land

Is it not possible to trace those calls to the masts in question thus locating to a much more specific degree where the
aircraft was at that point?
 
nm2582
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:59 am

Quoting k83713 (Reply 258):
How would MH glue to KL at the right moment? It would require some circling to wait for KL plane, because not likely it would catch up with it taking into account cruise speed of KL, it was not slow. Needs timeline to understand how they met. Also we know that MH flew through waypoints, and though the pattern was strange, I find it very diffcult to find proper waypoints to be on time for shadowing...

They would have quite a long time over the Bay of Bengal to meet up - it doesn't have to be a precise "right moment". They would have had over an hour.

MH370 would not have had to catch up - they were already ahead (200 miles NW of Penang at 2:15am according to primary radar blip). At the same moment (2:15am), the KLM was still in the Malacca strait - about 25 minutes behind.

No circling or waiting needed. Just fly slower until KLM catches up.

They (MH370) could also have been listening to the radio to help coordinate, they would have easily heard all ATC calls from the KLM.
 
Luxair
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:59 am

Quoting gregorous (Reply 10):

-speculation open-
Just imagine that they flew the aircraft somewhere to a remote airport but in vicinity of MH's current used airways to Europe. Couldn't they takeoff empty let's say without pax and cargo but with enough fuel than climb very fast to an approaching MH flight on his way to London by ex., than try to manoeuvre as close as possible to the MH flight enroute so does it almost appear as one ping on the radar! Once arriving over the Netherlands, dive and crash the plane in The Hague where the world security summit ( Obama and many other leaders will be present) take place?
-speculation closed-
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:00 am

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 265):
One thought .....

Seem to recall that a week ago there were reports from the families / friends in Beijing that they had rung PAX and
there were 'ringing tones' but the phones weren't answered

Which would suggest the aircraft must have been near enough to a cell mast, therefore land

Is it not possible to trace those calls to the masts in question thus locating to a much more specific degree where the
aircraft was at that point?

I believe it was covered before that international call routing has to make up the ring tone even if the endpoint isn't reachable as it takes some time to figure that out as it has to be routed through a number of phone networks to determine that. If the phone didn't ring for a while until they knew for sure the other phone could actually ring then people could hang up due to network delays and transfers.

If cellphones passed by cell towers overland they would be detected and registered on the network regardless of if someone made a call to them or not. The cell companies always know roughly were you are so long as your registered on the network. (Text messages are actually keep alive/management packets with a limited width text field that they charge you for using)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:04 am

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 265):

One thought .....

Seem to recall that a week ago there were reports from the families / friends in Beijing that they had rung PAX and
there were 'ringing tones' but the phones weren't answered

Which would suggest the aircraft must have been near enough to a cell mast, therefore land

Is it not possible to trace those calls to the masts in question thus locating to a much more specific degree where the
aircraft was at that point?

I understand it is hard to look through every post in 25 threads, but a simple "ctrl-F" search of the last few would have given you the answer.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/540/658/5e8.jpg
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
slinky09
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:04 am

Quoting ivanoruvan (Reply 247):
@VC315: What I mean is that China is doing only what any small nation would do too. Their actions do not justify the power behind. I was surprised that Chinese released suspected crash satellite images only to retract immediately saying it was a 'mistake'. What does that mean? What was the 'mistake'?

Unless it was a diversionary tactic to skew attention away from something else?

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 248):

As additional info for my post (reply 191), this image is the flight path of KLM 836 which I'm pondering that MH370 could have closely followed to avoid radar problems.

Is that really plausible, wouldn't the anti-collision programmes on the KLM airliner alert?

Quoting pvjin (Reply 250):
Everything suggests that someone hijacked the 777, flew it towards Africa / Antarctica for hours and finally ditched / crashed it somewhere in middle of nothing.

Read above, the evidence no longer suggests this.

Quoting Piliage (Reply 253):
'm a bit reluctant to think a big 777 just rolled in there after daylight undetected.

It would still have been dark at that location and at 8:07 local time in Kulala Lumpur.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 259):
Uh, not if it was Iran that wanted what was on the stinking 777.

Indeed, but even in a James Bond film it would be quite a plot!
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:07 am

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 266):

MH is white body, quite hard to hide it in the dark completely if KL was catching up and pilots saw nothing. Also, is it possible to know if Moon was at that moment?
I don't know, it looks possible but still too spectacular to be truth. Indian ocean is much easier and safer to cover traces...
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:08 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 270):
Is that really plausible, wouldn't the anti-collision programmes on the KLM airliner alert?

As said up-thread, if the transponder/TCAS were turned off on the MH 777, KLM would never know they were there. Their TCAS would show nothing.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
nm2582
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:08 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 270):
Is that really plausible, wouldn't the anti-collision programmes on the KLM airliner alert?

Yes, see reply 217, TCAS alerts requires TCAS transponders to be working on both aircraft. If TCAS was disabled on MH370, then KLM would not have received any such alert.
 
JimJupiter
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:09 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 269):
I understand it is hard to look through every post in 25 threads, but a simple "ctrl-F" search of the last few would have given you the answer.

Or just read the very first post that says "summary".  

I'll go follow the Guardian from now on. There's way too much conspiracy drivel clogging this site, and I don't have my tinfoil hat at hand.
One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
 
AR385
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:10 am

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 169):
Based on everything, the only thing which makes sense to me is suicide with the purpose of collecting life insurance.

Someone his big problems and decides to end life but still take care of family. Switch off transponder, fly off to middle of nowhere and crash plane in the hope it would never be found. No way to prove suicide so insurance has to pay. And there is a good chance it will work. Without the Inmarsat data, the plane would never be found and even with the data the chance is low.

No, life insurance for pilots does not work that way.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 262):
Wait why would an actually suicidal person care about how they die, why would they want to make it so hard to figure out and go through so much effort to cover their tracks.

Shame?
 
Luxair
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:10 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 270):

Is that really plausible, wouldn't the anti-collision programmes on the KLM airliner alert?

That is a good question, maybe some one familiar with can answer this. I would also like to know as it would be an important part of my theory (see my post 267)
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:11 am

Quoting k83713 (Reply 271):
MH is white body, quite hard to hide it in the dark completely if KL was catching up and pilots saw nothing. Also, is it possible to know if Moon was at that moment?
I don't know, it looks possible but still too spectacular to be truth. Indian ocean is much easier and safer to cover traces...

But would they even be looking out the window? I'm not a pilot, but I get the impression that they don't spend their time gazing out the window looking for aircraft - that's what TCAS is for. Unless they caught a glimpse of it off to one side and 500-1000 ft below, they'd probably never realize it was out there. And this was before anyone really knew the status of MH370.

Just my thought on it.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
slinky09
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:11 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 272):
As said up-thread, if the transponder/TCAS were turned off on the MH 777, KLM would never know they were there. Their TCAS would show nothing.

Of course, thanks for correcting me.

Has anyone else seen comments (on Twitter at least) that some of the bins in the hold were not screened?
 
zelda
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:12 am

A long time lurker, but this is my first post here on a-net.

I have been following the story of MH370 since the plane dissappeared, and find it more and more baffling.

Some threads ago I followed a link to an interview with the WSJ journalist that broke the story about the airline sending pings for an extended period. I belive his name is Andy Pasztor. In that interview he indicated that they had indications that the airplane even landed for a shorter period of time. I have also been following the twitter account of @flyingwithfish, and he is indicating that it is the cargo or people on board that whoever did this was interested in. Together with the same person saying that the cargo of MH370 was not scanned, I believe it was the cargo that was the valuable load.

Based on that info I have not read the theory that the people in charge of this first flew the airplane to a height of 45.000 ft in order to incapacitate as many of the passengers as possible. Then they flew the airplane to the an airstrip, where the valuable cargo was taken off the airplane. Then you have a suicide pilot taking off again with the passengers still on board. The suicide pilot then crashes the plane with full force into a remote mountain area or the deep ocean (which can explain the very rapid descending talked about earlier, and maybe also the two corridors?)
 
piliage
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:12 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 261):
i have real doubts about this too now, but its from a BBC guy...i mean why would he risk his reputation on flimsy info/false info..??

I know, and we are really getting into an area that Frank Zappa termed 'mumbo pocus' as that is where the evidence takes it. These are no longer conspiracy theories. The China/Kyrgz theory is certainly no better or worse than mine that it was taken in a pilot payoff hijack by Somali pirates, ala early Bond films.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:13 am

Quoting VC315 (Reply 244):
Remind me what's the purpose of hijacking the plane and fly it back to the Western China (assumingly XinJiang where the Uyghurs live)? If this is an attack, wouldn't it aim for bigger cities in the south/east coast?

To have a hostage situation and invite the worlds press to listen to their grievences against China, gaining rolling 24 hour news coverage, rather than to mount a suicide attack.
BV
 
nm2582
Posts: 177
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:13 am

Quoting k83713 (Reply 271):
MH is white body, quite hard to hide it in the dark completely if KL was catching up and pilots saw nothing. Also, is it possible to know if Moon was at that moment?
I don't know, it looks possible but still too spectacular to be truth. Indian ocean is much easier and safer to cover traces...

The moon set at 12:40am Malaysian time. The only light was starlight. Were MH370 1000ft higher or lower, and a few miles laterally off the established airway, I think they could have gone unnoticed...
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:14 am

Quoting Luxair (Reply 276):
Is that really plausible, wouldn't the anti-collision programmes on the KLM airliner alert?

Please see:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 272):

As said up-thread, if the transponder/TCAS were turned off on the MH 777, KLM would never know they were there. Their TCAS would show nothing.
Quoting nm2582 (Reply 273):
Yes, see reply 217, TCAS alerts requires TCAS transponders to be working on both aircraft. If TCAS was disabled on MH370, then KLM would not have received any such alert.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
ComeAndGo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:15 am

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 51):
northern corridor: border of kazakhstan/kyrgyzstan to ?? (sorry - i could not understand what he said, only certain of kazakhstan)
southern corridor from indonesia to southern indian ocean

That's a vast area. In other words they're not sure which way the plane flew. Indonesia or Kazakhstan ?
And it flew through known waypoints ?
It's more likely that the plane flew uncontrolled through the air with no one at the wheel.
 
Luxair
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:15 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 272):

Oepsss didn't spotted this post but it answers my question, thanks. Indeed this makes sense! So theoretically they could hide just under another plane without beeing detected! That makes my speculation maybe credible?
 
wukka
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:16 am

Haven't been around these forums for a long time, but this is a wildly intriguing incident.

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 18):
Was there enough fuel on board to have flown to Diego Garcia?

Curious question. Wondered the same.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 32):
I would say that a pilot suicide (your scenario #1) is most likely. The reason why not immediately crashing the plane we cannot know, but it might be either to commit 'a perfect murdet' at the same time without leaving any evidence.

Don't buy that for a second. Spontaneous suicide is very rare. "Perfect murdet [sic]" is premeditated homicide.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 34):
I'm still not convinced that the Captain had anything to do with it. Having said that, were I as into flying as he was, and I were going to crash my plane, I'd sure as heck first want to have as much fun as possible until out of fuel. Like...go up to 45,000, make some crazy dives and climbs, cruise as fast as possible, etc.

Spot on! Problem is that there appears to be too much deliberate avoidance! If you wanted to test the abilities of your Bentley, on your one last hurrah, would you give a rat's ass if the local cop caught you? Not like you plan to answer to the local justice tomorrow.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 45):
This is explosive news, he wasn't willing to say it was hijacked but he was quite clear it's actions were deliberate by people who knew how to operate a 777.

Took a plane full of people to yet unknown destination, whether be operators or nefarious individual(s) = hijacked.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 56):
In short, I honestly don't think its terrorism, but either suicide, joy flight, or maybe mental breakdown and insanity by one of the crew

"joy flight"? So you're saying someone took a plane from a gate, with full pax / cargo load, got clearance,... never mind. Discounted.

Quoting airlanka (Reply 60):
Does anyone officially reported the actual fuel uplift when it left KUL?

Has yet to be answered AFAIK.

Quoting tim73 (Reply 61):
Or the satellite radio part kept pinging while behind it the ACARS was switched off?

Yup.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 96):
Technically a hijacking is a person making an aircraft go where it was not intended. We know someone deliberately did this so technically we have a hijacking.

Right on.

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 114):
It's clear that far too much effort/investment was put into MH370 to just crash it into the ocean.

There was a purpose. The plane itself, the people on board, or the cargo it carried.

Probably the most accurate statement.

Quoting PHX+Flyer" class="quote" target="_blank">PHX Flyer (Reply 124):
What type of cargo would be worth the lives of over 230 people? This doesn't make sense to me.

Unfortunately, PHX, life is cheap. I'm a Hospice / Palliative nurse. I see people selling their "loved ones" under the bus on a daily basis. It's disgusting.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 169):
Based on everything, the only thing which makes sense to me is suicide with the purpose of collecting life insurance.

How do you explain all of the avoidance?
We can agree to disagree.
 
piliage
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:04 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:16 am

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 274):
I'll go follow the Guardian from now on. There's way too much conspiracy drivel clogging this site

...and nothing says sober intelligent well-reasoned logic like a Guardian blog...   
 
k83713
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:38 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:17 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 277):

Fair enough, no big reason to stare out, except that at 2:15 a.m. the news could already be out of the missing MH and KL crew could be notified. So they could already look around or simply be more vigilant...

Well, these are all theories, but I mean in this case you cannot drop any idea, so could be great to hear anything from KL crew...
 
Razza74
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:17 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:17 am

And the story gets more and more interesting as time goes on . . .

An interesting and quite plausible thought that MH370 "piggybacked" KLM 836 across Asia

That is it I am cutting and pasting all 25 threads on this event calling it a book and making a movie, this is pure gold
Ahh the joy of living under a flightpath
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:19 am

Quoting Luxair (Reply 285):
Oepsss didn't spotted this post but it answers my question, thanks. Indeed this makes sense! So theoretically they could hide just under another plane without beeing detected! That makes my speculation maybe credible?


Well, it certainly is an intriguing thought.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
VC315
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:28 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:20 am

Quoting k83713 (Reply 271):
MH is white body, quite hard to hide it in the dark completely if KL was catching up and pilots saw nothing.

Even if KL pilots saw it, they might not be alarmed. Firstly, they're at different FLs, and no TCAS warning. Secondly, they wouldn't know anything about MH370 went missing at that time.
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:21 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 262):
Wait why would an actually suicidal person care about how they die, why would they want to make it so hard to figure out and go through so much effort to cover their tracks. Not to mention ET702 didn't end with the perpetrator dying so can't even be called a copy cat crime. Also you don't "mix" copycat crimes and I doubt just because hijackings happen they are all related.

I'm quite sure your average suicidal person wouldn't take +200 lives with him but would rather jump from a roof or something.

I think pilot suicide is a lot more plausible theory than the aircraft somehow flying over half of Asia undetected, following another airliner, and then landing somewhere.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
tomlee
Posts: 610
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:01 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:21 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 275):
Shame?

Trying to make a plane disappear completely to hide shame would require a lot of planning and effort when just disappearing from transponder tracking and flying till the CVR gets overwritten would be enough to hid your shame.
 
tomlee
Posts: 610
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:01 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:23 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 292):
I'm quite sure your average suicidal person wouldn't take +200 lives with him but would rather jump from a roof or something.

I think pilot suicide is a lot more plausible theory than the aircraft somehow flying over half of Asia undetected, following another airliner, and then landing somewhere.

Suicide cases don't follow this typical pattern so while it is a possibility I don't think the flight numbers or previous incidents are related. I'm not actually saying it is impossible for it to be suicide just using flight numbers and timing of those flights isn't likely a factor.
 
k83713
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:38 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:23 am

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 282):
The moon set at 12:40am Malaysian time. The only light was starlight. Were MH370 1000ft higher or lower, and a few miles laterally off the established airway, I think they could have gone unnoticed...

Ok, thanks for checking that. Any possibility to track the signal change/noise in case of shadow following? I mean you can hide the signal but it all depends on resolution and sensitivity of radar equipment, so it could be easy to compare signal of "clean" KL and KL shadowed by MH.
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:24 am

Quoting Piliage (Reply 287):
Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 274):
I'll go follow the Guardian from now on. There's way too much conspiracy drivel clogging this site

...and nothing says sober intelligent well-reasoned logic like a Guardian blog...   

Hey now! That blog quoted "The Onion". The epitome of well-reasoned logic.

That said, I did learn about the possibility of an uncontrolled ascent to near-space from a.net.
We can agree to disagree.
 
VC315
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:28 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:27 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 281):
To have a hostage situation and invite the worlds press to listen to their grievences against China, gaining rolling 24 hour news coverage, rather than to mount a suicide attack.

I don't think hijack a civil aviation plane with over 200 civilians onboard under the scrutiny of the worlds press would help them to express their grievences. That simply puts them into the terrorist category - which kinda helps the Chinese government to make their point.

[Edited 2014-03-15 03:29:20]
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:29 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 293):
Trying to make a plane disappear completely to hide shame would require a lot of planning and effort when just disappearing from transponder tracking and flying till the CVR gets overwritten would be enough to hid your shame.

Well FDR could still tell something. If you wanted to avoid shame flying far towards Indian Ocean & then crashing it somewhere very deep would probably the optimal way to hide all solid evidence. I'm not all that convinced the aircraft will be ever found if that's what happened.

Also I don't think it would require that much more planning compared to an ordinary hijack / suicide scenario.

[Edited 2014-03-15 03:29:48]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
nm2582
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:15 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:31 am

Quoting k83713 (Reply 296):
Ok, thanks for checking that. Any possibility to track the signal change/noise in case of shadow following? I mean you can hide the signal but it all depends on resolution and sensitivity of radar equipment, so it could be easy to compare signal of "clean" KL and KL shadowed by MH.

This is outside my area of expertise, so I probably shouldn't even speculate. But I would agree that there are many factors, including quality and calibration of the radar equipment, how close they flew together, even the angle/position of the two aircraft with relation to the radar and the type of radar. Suffice to say, I think it could be done...
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