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aviators99
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:37 am

Have the calculations for range and endurance here been assuming normal cruise? If so, has anyone calculated max range and max endurance?
 
chrisrad
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:37 am

8 AM not pM

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 36):
more press conference points/confirmations:

last confirmed satellite communication at 8:11pm malaysian time
satellite data cannot confirm precise location of plane when it contacted satellite.
malaysian authorities and internationoal counterpoints confirm that the final location CAN be narrowed down to one of two corridors:

northern corridor: border of kazakhstan/kyrgyzstan to ?? (sorry - i could not understand what he said, only certain of kazakhstan)
southern corridor from indonesia to southern indian ocean
Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:38 am

The search area is now huge and still in two directions with a very deep ocean as well. Inmarsat should devote more resources in to excluding at least one of the paths. The CVR is most probably useless for what happened at the hand off point.
 
chaseus1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:39 am

Wow. They had a bunch of fuel... maybe it was a target far away then.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:39 am

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 4):
OK, so if the 'highjackers' have taken the plane for a future purpose, what is coming up in the next 6 months or so
of 'world-wide' importance that they would want to use a 777 flying bomb for?

What would be within range of this loaded 777?

The nominal max range with max payload is north of 8892nm. That's air distance and does not take winds into accounts.

In context, KUL-JFK is 8196nm, so you definitely have what might be termed "global reach" in this plane, especially if you decrease the payload.

Quoting socalgeo (Reply 24):
KUL-PEK is roughly
2700 miles, plus reserves, while no one has been able to tell us (unless I missed it) lets assume 3200 miles of range total.

You can very roughly approximate with the minimum mandated quantities:
- Taxi fuel. Irrelevant in this context.
- Trip fuel. Assuming zero winds, enough for 2900 miles probably since you never go in an exact straight line and you have to maneuver to the runway.
- Alternate fuel. Decent weather to let's assume TSN. 68nm plus a bit extra for manuever, climb, descent, missed approach so let's call it 100NM.
- Contingency fuel. 5% of trip fuel so 150nm.
- Final reserve. 30 minutes at 1500m above field at holding speed. Let's call it the equivalent of 300nm in cruise

Total of 3450nm. Again, a very rough approximation.

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:43:51]

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:44:09]
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slinky09
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:40 am

He specifically said if the northern corridor then around the region of Turkmenistan to Kazahkstan ... take a look at a map!

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:43:08]
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:40 am

Re terrorism, I don't think that this was aimed at China, simply because it doesn't seem sufficiently focused on them. If it had been a B registered ship operated by CA or MU then my opinion would be different.

Malaysia doesn't really have much external threat. There are some dissident minority groups, but again my gut instinct says that they're not involved. If they were then I think it would be more focused on Malaysia (911 on the Petronas for example)

In short, I honestly don't think its terrorism, but either suicide, joy flight, or maybe mental breakdown and insanity by one of the crew
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
dcsben
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:40 am

This northern corridor (border of Kazakhstan to northern Thailand) seems pretty interesting: it would imply flying over Myanmar, Tibet and Xinjiang (uyghur autonomous territory). Lots of possible explanations.

The southern corridor is pretty much open ocean.
 
tortugamon
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:40 am

Quoting jelliesR (Reply 40):
so hijacking not conclusive at all. Mechanical or other theories equally likely / unlikely.

I don't think I was listening to the same press conference that you were. In my opinion he strongly suggested without saying it, that it was hijacked. He followed up by saying that they are looking extensively at the people on board. It isn't confirmed but I imagine that is as close as we will get until the FVR and data recorder are recovered.

tortugamon
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:41 am

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 47):

And 230 people who witnessed what happened? And still no any leak from them? No one showed up, and if the plane is indeed intact, it makes me thinking some scary things of their fate.
 
airlanka
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:41 am

Quoting k83713 (Reply 44):
I believe it was 8:11 a.m. for the last contact, so around 7 hours after lost contact

So 5 hours of fuel from South China sea is now debunked… Does anyone officially reported the actual fuel uplift when it left KUL?
A taste of Paradise
 
tim73
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:41 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 41):
Also, ACARS was "switched off" *before* comms.

But it kept pinging satellites? Or the satellite radio part kept pinging while behind it the ACARS was switched off?
 
cpw
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:42 am

Does someone with an understanding of the technology know whether the plane would need to be in flight for the modem to ping the satellite, or does it continue to ping as long as the equipment is powered up? If the latter, 7 hours does not necessarily equal flight time... if (and a big if) the plane landed, it'd likely stay powered up for a period of time on the ground.
 
aviators99
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:42 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 54):
Total of 3450nm. Of course this is a very rough approximation.

Is this at normal cruise, or max range?
 
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Finn350
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:42 am

The two corridors are interesting. Either they can be deduced from the primary radar recordings in the area excluding other corridors or from the time-of-travel of the satellite signals that will give two possible corridors on either side of the satellite track having the same distance from the satellite.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 34):

Yes, entirely possible.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:43 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 58):

They said it is more probable now given how they worded things without saying conclusively / without a doubt that it was a hijacking. (The news stories before wrote that it was absolutely/without a doubt confirmed which sounded a bit odd and was incorrect in the end as expected)
 
jelliesR
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:44 am

Quoting rampart (Reply 49):
The fligth path and actions were "deliberate",

While the flight path was deliberate - in that computers don't normally get sentient - I'm not sure that anyone even the Malaysian prime minster can state categorically that the transponder and other system were *deliberately* disabled. Unless they are withholding some other evidence it can only be stated based on probability, vs other explanations that do not involve any malfeasance.

I suppose they feel it is the most likely explanation, but he didn't actually state that directly.
 
dahawaiian
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:44 am

With these two corridors identified as being to the north and south of the last known location, are we to assume that the aircraft did not fly in the vicinity of Diego Garcia?
 
spacecadet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:44 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 55):
He specifically said if the northern corridor then around the border of Turkmenistan and Kazahkstan ... take a look at a map!

Yeah, when he said that, I literally said "whoa!" That's insane! This plane could be practically anywhere, and there's a half-decent chance it's actually intact. If Malaysia saw this plane on radar and ignored it, who's to say others didn't do the same? He said they're contacting all relevant governments in these corridors now.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 65):
The news stories before wrote that it was absolutely/without a doubt confirmed which sounded a bit odd and was incorrect in the end as expecte

The news stories quoted a Malaysian official who's part of the investigation. The PM doesn't want to call it a definite hijacking, but that doesn't mean the Malaysian investigators aren't 100% convinced.

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:46:17]
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socalgeo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:44 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 54):
You can very roughly approximate with the minimum mandated quantities:
- Taxi fuel. Irrelevant in this context.
- Trip fuel. Assuming zero winds, enough for 2900 miles probably since you never go in an exact straight line and you have to maneuver to the runway.
- Alternate fuel. Decent weather to let's assume TSN. 68nm plus a bit extra for manuever, climb, descent, missed approach so let's call it 100NM.
- Contingency fuel. 5% of trip fuel so 150nm.
- Final reserve. 30 minutes at 1500m above field at holding speed. Let's call it the equivalent of 300nm in cruise

Total of 3450nm. Of course this is a very rough approximation.

Ok, can I assume that the circle centered on the last way point is a good approximation based on your calculation? 3450 - 1100 = 2350...The circle is 2200... Ill do a new one in a few minutes...


Map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b52c362966934

SoCalGeo

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:46:53]
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:45 am

Quoting tim73 (Reply 61):

The ACARS controller is a separate box from the Sat modem from what I understand, so if something goes wrong with ACARS or it is turned off the satcom modem which can be used by other systems would still work and send its "keep alive messages" similar to how any modem or VOIP terminal does to its host network.
 
JimJupiter
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:46 am

My problem with the hijacking theories: Someone is knowledgable enough to disable ACARS, then shuts the transponder off, but flies the plan "eratically" and with altitude chances across the peninsula? Like somebody who doesn's know how to fly a plane?

It's still a mess.  
One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
 
rampart
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:46 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 55):
Turkmenistan and Kazahkstan ... take a look at a map!

I don't believe he said Turkmenistan, but rather border of Thailand to Kazakhstan, which would take it over northern Pakistan and/or western China.

Edit: Others noted below, and I myself re-heard it, yes, it was border of Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan to northern Thailand. Not as much western China, but possibly over Pakistan and Afghanistan.

-Rampart

[Edited 2014-03-15 00:11:53]
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:47 am

Quoting aviators99 (Reply 63):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 54):
Total of 3450nm. Of course this is a very rough approximation.

Is this at normal cruise, or max range?

I am assuming normal cruise but we'd have to know the cost index used on the flight to know for sure. Then again max range cruise doesn't change the Long Range Cruise figure by more than a few percent. You trade a bit of fuel for a disproportionately faster passage but as mentioned only a few percent.

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 28):
Not sure if this has been posted yet, but some joker in Vietnam posted this add:

http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html

That can't be it. Wrong variant. Are they missing more than one? 
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
spacecadet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:48 am

Quoting socalgeo (Reply 69):
Ok, can I assume that the circle centered on the last way point is a good approximation based on your calculation? 3450 - 1100 = 2350...The circle is 2200... Ill do a new one in a few minutes...

All you need to do is use the borders the PM said - he specifically laid out the far reaches it could have made it to. It was a lot further than the circle you drew.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:48 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 54):
Trip fuel. Assuming zero winds, enough for 2900 miles

That assumes a nominal trip destination. We now know the destination may have been elsewhere. Do we know how much fuel was actually loaded at departure?
 
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N328KF
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:48 am

Quoting rampart (Reply 72):
I don't believe he said Turkmenistan, but rather border of Thailand to Kazakhstan, which would take it over northern Pakistan and/or western China.

I don't know if I buy that angle...but aren't there a lot of Uighurs in that area?
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
nm2582
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:48 am

conference is replaying for anyone who missed it.

english.astroawani.com/
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:50 am

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 71):

Not to mention someone who knows what ACARS does and how it works enough to disable it should have also known what the satcom does and that it is what really gets the data out (or is there a way to disable the entire ACARS system from the cockpit? but not the sat modem). Not to mention the insane radar track data and engine data reported (after ACARS was off?, confused from reports). It is all still quite confusing and I sure hope they have something more concrete than ACARS off first then transponder as that order is illogical in the first place. (Why not just turn off the transponder then ACARS+Satcom). The transponder is all you need to disappear immediately and as long as you turn off ACARS+Satcom later no one will know where you are. (Ignoring primary radars which should have picked them up).
 
Indy
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:50 am

Maybe it has been mentioned in the 20-something other threads on the subject but what about the possibility the plane was hacked? Anyone remember this from last year?

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...irplane-with-only-an-android-phone

As anyone in IT knows anything can be hacked (and pretty much has been). If this were the case, would it ever be known? From an update to the article the FAA claims it cannot be done. Perhaps the story is just about a proof of concept and nothing else. Unfortunately when it comes to computer security the bad guys are often more skilled than the good guys. I certainly hope this isn't the problem behind flight 370.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
chaseus1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:50 am

Someone would have called if this thing isn't under water, or land crashed..... just my thoughts....

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:53:38]
 
tim73
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:50 am

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 71):
My problem with the hijacking theories: Someone is knowledgable enough to disable ACARS, then shuts the transponder off, but flies the plan "eratically" and with altitude chances across the peninsula? Like somebody who doesn's know how to fly a plane?

Exactly and if they knew about ACARS, they would know about the satmodem pings maybe? Could the pinging be shutdown?
 
tortugamon
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:51 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 68):
The news stories quoted a Malaysian official who's part of the investigation. The PM doesn't want to call it a definite hijacking, but that doesn't mean the Malaysian investigators aren't 100% convinced

Agreed. They are convinced but can't actually say it until they have proof. I wouldn't want a PM to speculate so he said it without saying it in my opinion.

This new trajectory is extremely interesting. Why on earth would they have that much fuel on board. Crazy.

tortugamon
 
aviators99
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:51 am

At, say, 40% power, wouldn't the endurance be a lot longer? How would it impact the range?
 
spacecadet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:52 am

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 71):
Like somebody who doesn's know how to fly a plane?

Or like somebody who's trying to kill the passengers and then evade radar (or at least look like something worth ignoring).

Which is just to say the "erratic" flying on its own can be explained either way. It doesn't prove or disprove anything. You have to look at all the evidence.

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:53:59]
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
lscorpio
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:53 am

If it's not in the Indian Ocean. And if it still could have crashed somewhere, wouldn't Himalaya or Tibet be placed where an accident may be hard to detect?
 
slinky09
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:55 am

I am listening to the playback and here are the words the Malaysian PM said in relatiion to the corridors and locations:

"A northern corridor from the border of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan to Thailand.
A southern corridor stretching from Indonesia to the southern Indian Ocean"
 
rampart
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:55 am

Quoting jelliesR (Reply 66):
not sure that anyone even the Malaysian prime minster can state categorically that the transponder and other system were *deliberately* disabled.

But that's what he said, I think verbatim, "deliberately". Question him if you want, but that's their going theory (supported, as he said, by US and other international agencies).

Quoting N328KF (Reply 76):
but aren't there a lot of Uighurs in that area?

Yes, west China/east Kazakhstan. Not sure I believe north Pakistan myself, but without more specifics, that's a possible direction..

-Rampart
 
recockulous
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:55 am

Quoting fooflyboy (Reply 11):

_begin speculation_

It may be a hijacking, but not a botched one.

...


So their plan was to make an airliner disappear into thin air. They very nearly did it. By downing the plane where they did, it makes it extremely hard to find. Even if you figure out where, the water depth is so extreme that recovery is extremely difficult. And even if you manage to do that, they have out-flown the CVR and FDR so you find nothing of any use. Message from the terrorists: "We are smarter than you.".

So let's say that this is what happened. We're all stumped and mystified. Scratching our heads. Thinking that this event is a "one-off". (I really do hope that it is)

But... what happens if another plane "vanishes". (This time they would be sure not to overlook power to the satcom) If this other shoe were to drop, imagine what the ramifications would be.

It could cripple the passenger airline industry globally. Airlines would stop flying until it was determined what was happening and measures were taken. Now that would be something I could see some terror organization striving for. They could literally bring the world to its knees.

_end speculation_

While speculative, that certainly is a theory that accounts for most of what we know. The only loose thread is whether the aircraft was seized by a passenger with sufficient knowledge of the equipment to execute the plan, or whether it was a "sleeper" pilot (or pilots, plural). The latter is probably the bigger issue - we can screen passengers and secure cockpits from outsiders, but what new preventative measures could be taken to ensure pilots don't do things like this? It almost makes one think ... perhaps the post 9/11 security measures isolating pilots from passengers might work against a passenger trying to stop a pilot who is participating in a scheme like the one you propose?

Again, all speculative, but a very provocative theory.
 
nm2582
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:55 am

listening to the conf again - to clarify the exact terms he used to describe the northern corridor:

a corridor FROM: the border of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan
TO northern Thailand
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:56 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 79):
Maybe it has been mentioned in the 20-something other threads on the subject but what about the possibility the plane was hacked? Anyone remember this from last year?

From what I understand ( http://www2.cs.uidaho.edu/~krings/CS449/Notes.F09/449-09-27.pdf ) unless someone was dumb enough to put a link between the flight control system and the internet as a whole it would be difficult to hack the important control network if there is no physical access.

In terms of IT the moment any computer system goes online it will get hacked no matter how good the code is. (it is just a matter of time) And since most systems in real time control assume that they are in a protected and priveleged space few to none have active defences against hacking.

I don't even know if airplanes run firewalls and IDS systems on their outward datalinks as I think it is pretty much assumed that important stuff isn't exposed and there is some security to protect important data but it doesn't matter if they do get hacked as the pilots should still be able to control the plane. A vulnerability that allows the flight system to be hacked to override the pilots or control systems would be a "catastrophic" problem, one that I don't think exists in the 777.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:57 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 75):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 54):
Trip fuel. Assuming zero winds, enough for 2900 miles

That assumes a nominal trip destination. We now know the destination may have been elsewhere. Do we know how much fuel was actually loaded at departure?

We don't. I just wanted to get a rough estimate for the minimum fuel that could have legally been loaded.

Quoting aviators99 (Reply 83):
At, say, 40% power, wouldn't the endurance be a lot longer? How would it impact the range?

Range would decrease dramatically.

Turbofans are most efficient at high power settings. Normal cruise speed is termed "Long Range Cruise" and is only a few percent from max range cruise with regards to fuel burn and range.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:57 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 79):

If it was hacked, so no physical capture of controls in the cockpit, and the crew sitting there looking at what the heck is going on but unable to do anything with that, I still think they would communicate that to ATC or through 7700 squawk. Since all that went in opposite direction of turning off comms and keeping silent, I think it was physically disabled crew

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:59:22]
 
aviators99
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:59 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 91):
Range would decrease dramatically.

Turbofans are most efficient at high power settings. Normal cruise speed is termed "Long Range Cruise" and is only a few percent from max range cruise with regards to fuel burn and range.

Thanks. But I assume that I am correct that endurance would be greatly increased? If so, it is possible that even if the plane was only loaded with enough fuel to get to PEK, at low power it could have flown for 7 more hours.
 
koruman
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:59 am

The flight 714 hypothesis from the very earliest threads is starting to look likelier and likelier!

But so too is Chang's experience in Tintin in Tibet.

A very strange case of life imitating art........
 
chaseus1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:59 am

CVRs need to be set to record the max endurance of the plane, and not just a couple of hours... We may find the plane, and have no idea what what was physically happening in the cockpit hours before.... like when the plane turned around, flew erratically, flew over Malaysia, turned a couple times, then flew away.... for example.... was there a cockpit struggle? We may never know.
 
tortugamon
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:00 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 68):
The news stories quoted a Malaysian official who's part of the investigation. The PM doesn't want to call it a definite hijacking, but that doesn't mean the Malaysian investigators aren't 100% convinced

Technically a hijacking is a person making an aircraft go where it was not intended. We know someone deliberately did this so technically we have a hijacking.

tortugamon
 
ocracoke
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:15 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:01 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 58):
He followed up by saying that they are looking extensively at the people on board.

Figure out if one of the passenger(s) "befriended" the pilot by becoming a close flight simulator pal of his, and I think you will have found your Trojan horse. What better way to get access to the flight deck, than to be flight sim buds with the captain for months/years, sharing the same passion? After gaining his confidence, you casually mention how neat it would be to be able to see a real flight deck in action, and not just on the computer simulator, and the captain agrees. He tells you when he is flying, you buy a ticket, and after takeoff, during a quite period of the flight, he invites you- as his close flight sim "buddy"- on up to check out the action. After all, it was reported on TV that he previously let some Australian girls onto the flight deck, so why not his flight sim pal?

Said person(s) has now Trojan-horsed himself onto the flight deck, takes out the captain/co-pilot,....struggles with the controls at first (it's a little different than sitting in front of the computer), shuts off all the tracking devices that he is aware of, gets the plane back under control, and takes off for who knows were, for who knows what.
 
Indy
Posts: 4934
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:02 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 90):
unless someone was dumb enough to put a link between the flight control system and the internet as a whole it would be difficult to hack the important control network if there is no physical access

Someone managed to hack the point of sale terminals at Target. Sometimes it is hard to imagine the things a hacker would do to take control of something which makes it difficult at times for IT people to defend against. The IT guys just cannot think of every possible angle. Without knowing how the systems work in an airplane I cannot say for sure, but it is possible the systems were compromised a long time ago and the hackers behind this only recently put the plan into action. The system could have been compromised by a mechanic with access to the plane or maybe someone with access to a critical part before it ever made it on the plane. Just bringing up ways a system could have been compromised. Again I have no idea how it would even begin to work with systems on a plane.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
rampart
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25

Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:03 am

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 89):
a corridor FROM: the border of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan TO northern Thailand

If that's the case, that is a relatively small border shared by those 2 countries, only about 300km near the Caspian Sea. Keep in mind this isn't (necessarily) a destination, but a specific end point on a map for reference.

Rampart
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