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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:12 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 82):
Highway could have parts that are prepared as landing strips for the military. But no place with a highway in China is so remote that a 777 would not be noticed.

As I stated in post 6 I think, there are some very interesting things out in the remote parts of China that easily could handle something this size with no one noticing for a long while. Check this out: http://gizmodo.com/5859081/why-is-ch...ctures-in-the-middle-of-the-desert - particularly these two : http://g.co/maps/375xc & http://g.co/maps/vgdf7

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 132):
...

Just out of curiosity, are you sleeping at all? What timezone are you in? You see to be everywhere in these posts, which I am glad because it makes it easy for me to catch up.

Quoting clickhappy (THREAD 25: Reply 18):
Was there enough fuel on board to have flown to Diego Garcia?

That is still an answer no one has provided, and it shocks me that they haven't. This would answer SO much, or at least point in the right direction. It's a completely different game if say the pilot loaded 50% more fuel.

Quoting spacecadet (THREAD 25: Reply 68):
That's insane! This plane could be practically anywhere, and there's a half-decent chance it's actually intact.

It certainly has only increased my belief instead of decreased that it is intact. I really wish we knew the actual fuel load.

Quoting socalgeo (THREAD 25: Reply 100):
OK, I added a 3000 mile buffer and a 3500 mile buffer for 6 and 7 hours flight time at 500 mph...

Sir, your maps are outstanding. I reserve Respected User list for those who provide significant airplane knowledge over a long period of time. But as someone who works a lot with Google Maps API, if there were a Map Making Respected User List, you would be on it. Thank you for what you have done. It actually help simplify the theories big time.

[Edited 2014-03-15 08:15:53]
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
blueheronNC
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:12 pm

Quoting argonaught (Reply 144):
If this indeed a hijacking, the pirates are likely doing their best to keep the pax safe (a dead hostage being a not very good bargaining chip).

Unless the point of the hijacking was for the plane itself, not the passengers. Then you kill them as seamlessly as you can (hypoxia at a high altitude) and dump the bodies as quickly as possible.
 
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dirktraveller
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:12 pm

Hi everyone, I have been skimming again the past four threads I've missed.

I am aware of the recent press conference by the Malaysian PM indicating that the B777's disappearance most probably done deliberately. I do apologise if I have asked some questions that someone had probably asked before.

With hijacking being the leading theory here, I was wondering if on there were air marshals on board this flight? Surely, in today's post September 11 security it would not be that easy to take hostage of an international flight without any resistance from passengers/crew or the armed air marshals doing their duty.

A few threads ago some wondered if there's any more background on the F/O, I found a Straits Times article and it was apparently said he was a son of a high-ranking official in Selangor, although no further explanations were given.

http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-...sia-airlines-plane-works-hard-and-

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 123):
I have translated some of the Malay of the Captains facebook page. What do you think?

Thanks for sharing this one, looks like he do believe strongly on one of the side of Malaysian politics. But again if we were to hypothetically think he would deliberately bring down MH370 to show a political statement, we could easily have seen this flight gone down in downtown Kuala Lumpur or some govt buildings.

Sorry but somehow I can't see how a political statement can be made by deliberately bringing down a B777 filled with mostly Chinese passengers in the middle of Indian Ocean. But feel free to explain to me if I may have seen this wrongly.

And do you know when was the Captain made this post? I believe it was during the Malaysian election in 2013? I hope this was not posted on just days before the flight went missing..

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 136):
Did the president step in to put an end to conflicting agendas ? Is this an image correction move ?

Just a tiny nitpicking, it is the Prime Minister in Malaysia. It could be the case, having him to brief this important piece of update might hopefully restored the world's confidence on them handling the situation.
 
na
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:14 pm

How utterly incompetent must the Malaysians be if a WHOLE WEEK later its revealed the plane flew on for 6 hours longer?
The only alternative to incompetence I can see: they knew. But then 7 days of SAR dont make sense as it would be too costly a diversion.

One thing we know now is, anyone can overfly Malaysia and no military nor someone else will stop you.

[Edited 2014-03-15 08:17:55]
 
danvs
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:15 pm

Now that there's a possibility that MH370 crashed in the middle of the Indian Ocean, I wonder if we might never find the debris (let alone the CVR/FDR)... Or will some debris eventually be washed ashore somewhere, even if it takes months for that?
 
na
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:18 pm

Quoting danvs (Reply 152):
Or will some debris eventually be washed ashore somewhere, even if it takes months for that?

Almost certainly, yes, but perhaps so small and in such remote places it might pass unnoticed.
 
tapir
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:19 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 73):
In a democracy, you can't go searching homes without probably cause. The need for a search warrant is one of the foundations of the legal system, and for good reason.

In Msia, the legal system works differently. Police can ransack with or without a warrant depending on the situation.
 
kevinkevin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:24 pm

Really if it is confirmed the plane flew for 6hrs longer, I see no point in searching the Malacca Strait or the Andaman sea.

[Edited 2014-03-15 08:24:48]
 
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BaconButty
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:25 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 136):
Two different teams investigating two different issues leaking information to the press who then magnify everything exponentially.

But it isn't the Malaysians who've been doing the bulk of the leaking, there's only the one instance and that may be down to a misunderstanding. Initially it was the Vietnamese broadcasting every time they spotted a fag packet in the South China Sea, then the Chinese with their satellite pictures, and latterly the Americans for whom every news outlet seems to have it's half baked NTSB or, more likely, FAA "source" who seemingly doesn't care for ICAO obligations. I'm not patriotic, and am fond of the US (I'll be there again in 3 weeks), but in this case I'm quite proud that the level of UK involvement has been discrete enough to only become apparent today.

The Malaysian actions have been entirely consistent with the version of events outlined by the PM in all fairness. And, apart from an eccentric analogy involving Mario Ballotelli, and an ill advised (if true) admission that there are some things they can't tell us, their communications have been accurate. The confusion has come from the red herrings and half truths from other sources, magnified by the inability of the press to comprehend the details and their desperation for information.

Normally press inaccuracy regarding aviation doesn't bother me - if they confuse their 737's and 767's it has no material impact on events. But in this case, given the multinational nature of this search, it seems there has been operational impact from the leaks and reporting. Certainly there was a hiatus in the Vietnamese search as a result (in hindsight with no consequences) and co-operation with China seems to have be affected. I personally have lost a lot of respect for the WSJ in the last couple of days for what it's worth.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
jcxroberts
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:27 pm

re: The Southern Route.

Indonesia stated they got no radar pings.
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:27 pm

Quoting na (Reply 151):
How utterly incompetent must the Malaysians be if a WHOLE WEEK later its revealed the plane flew on for 6 hours longer?
The only alternative to incompetence I can see: they knew. But then 7 days of SAR dont make sense as it would be too costly a diversion.


It's simplistic and misleading to say either they knew or they were incompetent. You missed the third possibility: The Malaysians simply had no evidence that it had happened. It was a possibility based on primary radar indications but they had discounted it. Then the USA came up with further identifiable data the Malaysians had no access to.


Quoting na (Reply 151):
One thing we know now is, anyone can overfly Malaysia and no military nor someone else will stop you.

Nonsense.

[Edited 2014-03-15 08:29:38]
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
danvs
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:29 pm

Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 156):
Really if it is confirmed the plane flew for 6hrs longer, I see no point in searching the Malacca Strait or the Andaman sea.

But no one knows the exact track or position of the airplane, so it might be anywhere, including the Malacca Strait, the Andaman sea, or anywhere within a 6-hour radius from the last known position.
 
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BaconButty
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:32 pm

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 159):
Then the USA came up with further identifable data the Malaysians had no access to.

That may not be true - the data was obtained from the "satellite services provider" and analysed by the Malaysian, US and UK investigators independently. Who did the obtaining is another matter. Agree with the rest of what you said though.

[Edited 2014-03-15 08:33:45]
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:33 pm

Ok, I know I got slammed for being Xenophobic for suggesting Chinese espionage by some on here. But given the recent developments, I want to at least look at the practicality of the flight plan and the possibility of the MH pilot recruitment for Chinese Espionage. Keep in mind, when I said what I said in post 6, at the time I had NO idea about VAMPI, GIVAL or IGREX.

As I stated before, there are some weird things in the Chinese desert. Particularly this: http://g.co/maps/375xc and if I take the point of that map and put it into SkyVector, I get almost a 360 degree turn to the north, within range of known fuel load, going through Mynanmar airspace. I would think radar coverage in Myanmar would be one of the weakest in the region.

Any thoughts?

http://skyvector.com/?ll=25.24999561...AL:F.VO.IGREX:G.40.488966,93.50004



[Edited 2014-03-15 08:36:23]
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
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pvjin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:39 pm

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 157):

If they first flew towards west and then turned south it shouldn't have been difficult to avoid Indonesian radars.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
solarflyer22
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:39 pm

Quoting holzmann (Reply 138):
Thinking along the lines of using a 777 to inflict terror in 9-11 style...

I would like to know if the pilots or anyone on the plane had any sort of connection to the Flight 93 terrorists. No one knows what the F93 target was suppose to be. I think the White House / US Capitol were both the most likely suspects.

My question: Was there anyone on MH370 who had strong reasons, personal, religious, or otherwise, to finish the job?

Anything is possible but I highly doubt it. F93 and 9/11 were mostly Saudi and Egyptian Arabs. There were literally no Arabs on this plane let alone Saudis and Egyptians. There are some Malaysian and Chinese extremists out there but if I find it unlikely they would hijack a 777, refuel and then sneak it back toward the US east cost to finish off whatever the target was. The only two people investigated up until the pilots today were the Iranian asylum seekers who had no access to 777 technology as it isn't flown in Iran. They would have no idea how to turn off ACARS let alone hijack it and control it. I doubt anyone but the pilots had that know how. You had to know the 777 intimately to get into its EE bay.
 
na
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:41 pm

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 159):
Nonsense.

Sorry, but its your answer that is nonsense. The plane wasnt stopped, not identified, not even detected in time. So, what the logical answer?

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 159):
It's simplistic and misleading to say either they knew or they were incompetent. You missed the third possibility: The Malaysians simply had no evidence that it had happened.

If they had no evidence or discarded evidence of a plane flying over their territory for quite some time how do you call it then? Bad equipment, insufficient surveillance, ineffectivemess of the military and so on, a lot comes together. I know I am being simplistic by saying its either incompetence or they were hiding evidence. Deliberately, because thats the bottomline it comes to. I grant them the benefit that they have to deal with a never-before-seen situation.
 
tapir
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:44 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 164):
The only two people investigated up until the pilots today were the Iranian asylum seekers who had no access to 777 technology as it isn't flown in Iran

Not exactly true. The people with stolen passport was not even detected by Msian authorities until the real owners told their passport were stolen. I wonder if they were ignorant of MH370 then would Msia discovered about them?
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting Tapir (Reply 170):
Not exactly true. The people with stolen passport was not even detected by Msian authorities until the real owners told their passport were stolen. I wonder if they were ignorant of MH370 then would Msia discovered about them?

The investigators would have run all the passport numbers against the Interpol database.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:46 pm

Quoting dougbr2006 (Reply 134):
If the AHARS was off and not sending information, which system was supposedly sending data to the satellite?

Scenario #1 where pilots and airline ops can exchange messages
ACARS CONSOLE -> ACARS CONTROLLER -> SATCOM -> INMARSAT -> SITA -> AIRLINE OPS

Scenario #2 Engine sends health data to RR. Most likely scenario for MH because it is subscribed only for this service.
Engine Diag System-> ACARS CONTROLLER -> SATCOM -> INMARSAT -> SITA -> RR

Scenario #2a (Same as #2 except using VHF, i.e., when in VHF range below 30,000 feet)
Engine Diag System-> ACARS CONTROLLER -> VHF Antenna-> Ground based VHF Network-> SITA -> RR

What link system uses depends on airline policy and available link. If VHF is cheap it uses VHF, if there is no VHF uses SATCOM.

SATCOM establishes link with INMARSAT and keeps it alive. If there is real data like message between flight crew and airline ops (or) engine health data, ACARS Controller passes on to SATCOM, inturn to INMARSAT sends those to SITA.
All posts are just opinions.
 
ComeAndGo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:47 pm

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 157):
But it isn't the Malaysians who've been doing the bulk of the leaking

The Malaysian Military leaked information about the radar dots to the straight of Malacca. At one point the crash investigators stated that only information the crash investigators release is officially valid. Why would they state that? Because they can't control what the military does or says. So now the Prime Minister stepped in to force the crash investigators to follow the military opinion after what seems like more believable US sources came up with 'convincing' explanations. I can bet you the satcom info turns out to be wrong and those radar blips are from another aircraft.
 
mouldypete
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:47 pm

The current assumption seems to be that the plane was flying for seven hours until 8:10am. Is this based solely on the reception by Inmarsat satellite of the ACARS ping which carries no data?

The position information calculated from the satellite data seems to be based on the angle between the satellite and the ping emitter and there is no indication of compass direction along the circumference of the circle where the plane is.

Or have they released other directional data on the flight after it left the western margins of Malaysian radar coverage?
A further question then surfaces.

If the plane landed safely say after a couple of hours and left the engines on tick-over to keep the batteries charged and power to the plane systems, would the automatic pinging continue; thus mimicking flight?
 
ultrablue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:48 pm

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 163):
As I stated before, there are some weird things in the Chinese desert. Particularly this: http://g.co/maps/375xc

From memory the consensus was that they are just fake airports painted onto the ground for Chinese air force training.
 
tapir
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:51 pm

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 171):

They didn't and even claimed that too many names and it would be tedious. The truth is a friend of the two Iranians posted in the comment section of CNN identifying the two and the group photograph just before departing. He even claimed that he and the mother of one of the person with stolen passport already contacted MAS and gave the information. That was 15 hour earlier long before Msian police identified one of them,

Ths information can also found here in thread 9, I think.

[Edited 2014-03-15 08:53:23]
 
luisde8cd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:52 pm

Guys,

I read a tweet that implies that MH370 could had "shadowed" SQ68 on its way from SIN to BCN. Take a look at flightaware log for SQ68, especially departure time and cruise altitude (30,000ft). Wasn't Malaysian radar reporting MH370 flying at 29500ft?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S.../20140307/1640Z/WSSS/LEBL/tracklog

http://i57.tinypic.com/2rfx6b4.png
 
jcxroberts
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:58 pm

Quoting Tapir (Reply 145):
On March 8, an unprecedented trial took place in KL where the court working overtime convicted the opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim to five years imprisonment. ...The verdict of the trial was delivered around 7 p.m. Most Malaysian would have known by 8 p.m. We do not for sure whether the decision of the court affected the captain but let us go through the events.

1) The first report after CNN reported bout the missing plane was a tweet from TV3 (government controlled station) said the plane landed safely in Nanning.

2) Apparently, Tony the CEO of AirAsia also said the same thing.

How and why did TV3 and Tony said the plane landed in Nanning. Surely, Tony as a CEO wouldn't have said it without verifying the information. Who fed him the news?

3) A few hours later, it was announced that the plane was missing since 2 40 a.m.

How did they got the correct time in the first place around 9 a.m on March 8? Even though, the government later retracted that stamen and said the plane was missing at 1.33 am . From the beginning the government knew the correct time it disappeared. If the knew about 2.40 am then they also should know it was some where near Pulau Perak on the opposite direction.

4) The was a report on 9 March that Vietnamese air controlled called Malaysia twice to inform that they lost MH370 but they didn't receive any reply from Malaysia. Why?

This makes a lot sense reading how focused the pilot was about politics, his facebook posts.

Also the Nanning story wasn't just a rumor, some decent news groups based it on a source which (it is rumored) was T Fernandes. Did he tweet it and delete it ?
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:00 pm

Quoting ultrablue (Reply 175):
From memory the consensus was that they are just fake airports painted onto the ground for Chinese air force training.

For sure. But that doesn't preclude it to be used for other things. Kind of like Edwards Air Force base.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
flyorski
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:03 pm

Quoting luisde8cd (Reply 179):
a tweet that implies that MH370 could had "shadowed" SQ68 on its way from SIN to BCN. Take a look at flightaware log for SQ68, especially departure time and cruise altitude (30,000ft). Wasn't Malaysian radar reporting MH370 flying at 29500ft?

Except it did not have the fuel to do so.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:03 pm

Quoting luisde8cd (Reply 179):
I read a tweet that implies that MH370 could had "shadowed" SQ68 on its way from SIN to BCN. Take a look at flightaware log for SQ68, especially departure time and cruise altitude (30,000ft). Wasn't Malaysian radar reporting MH370 flying at 29500ft?

I thought about a scenario like that myself, but wouldn't it be picked up on the other planes TCAS? Or does the transponder need to be on for TCAS to work?
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
Wolger
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:03 pm

Just to state it again Malaysia had mentioned a day or 2 after incident Day 1 (can't remember) "there IS possibility of a Turnback" by the aircraft (albeit not reciprocal or U-turn) and the search area was expanded to the west coast of peninsular. Malaysia had been consistent in this.

Facts about the pilot, I don't have much speculation to offer apart from the one I'd stated earlier way back (Somali pirates hired pros or rogue pilots for ransom money and the release of captured Somali pirates from Malaysian jail - family relations - pirate bosses).

Fact about the pilot as some poster had raised this.
He was a strong supporter of the Opposition. Somebody mentioned he liked atheist literature so he couldn't be an islamist. 3 main parties in the Opposition pact: Anwar Ibrahim's secular multiracial PKR/People's Justice party, islamist PAS/Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party, chinese DAP/Democratic Action Party. Another minor party which didn't contest in the last General Election. As a conclusion he could be PKR supporter. Anwar Ibrahim was recently a day before incident(?) was convicted by the Court of Appeal on a charge of sodomy overturning a High Court acquittal in 2012
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:04 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 173):
I can bet you the satcom info turns out to be wrong and those radar blips are from another aircraft.

Impossible they are from another aircraft. The SATCOM modem, like any networked device, will have a unique identifier like the ICAO 24-bit address for the transponder or a MAC address in typical computer networks. The satellite needs to know who it is talking to, and receivers need to be able to filter out broadcasts not intended for them.

If they say those pings were from the accident a/c, 100% they were.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:04 pm

Quoting flyorski (Reply 177):
Except it did not have the fuel to do so.

1) We don't know what Fuel it had because no one has officially released what was loaded. 2.) I think the theory is that it broke off at some point and landed somewhere, maybe Iran.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
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BaconButty
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:04 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 173):
The Malaysian Military leaked information about the radar dots to the straight of Malacca.

Which is why I said there's been one instance.

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 173):
So now the Prime Minister stepped in to force the crash investigators to follow the military opinion after what seems like more believable US sources came up with 'convincing' explanations. I can bet you the satcom info turns out to be wrong and those radar blips are from another aircraft.

I really can't follow this. The investigators clearly did follow up the Military primary radar evidence since they searched to the west as well as the east from the start. And in any case those returns have now been determined to be MH370 by follow up analysis by the FAA/NTSB/AAIB, unless the Malaysian PM is misrepresenting them, and those authorities are meekly allowing it.

And what "convincing explanations" are you on about? The US leaks were basically muddled, inaccurate snippets from the in-progress analysis of the inmarsat data. All they achieved was to ramp up Chinese paranoia.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
fooflyboy
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:04 pm

Quoting na (Reply 12):
Even the luckiest highjacker, the quickest and the wittiest needs some seconds to enter the cockpit,
Quoting seahawk (Reply 100):
One crew member alone could not do it. He would have to remove the other pilot and disable any means of communication in the cabin.

Could one of you professionals describe exactly how cockpit doors are locked these days? And also what the protocol is regarding rest room breaks and meal service (in regards to opening the cockpit door)?

Quoting argonaught (Reply 125):
Doesn't look like a typical terrorist attack; someone would have claimed responsibility long ago.

I disagree. Remember before 911 we had never seen anything like that before. I think it's very possible we are seeing something here that we've never seen before as well.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:05 pm

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 178):
I thought about a scenario like that myself, but wouldn't it be picked up on the other planes TCAS? Or does the transponder need to be on for TCAS to work?

TCAS relies on the transponder to work.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
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Miami
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:06 pm

Malaysian investigators conclude missing airliner hijacked.

The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. "It is conclusive."
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:06 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 133):
Sorry should have been more clear. I didn't say that this had been done, just that it was plausible a hypothetical hijacker would cut every thing but ACARS through SATCOM because this would have required leaving the cockpit.

On the pilots MFD they can deselect ACARS transmission by VHF and SATCOM.
This does not tuen off the VHF and SATCOM, just stops ACARS from using them. This part of the Communications Manager is well down inside the menus and I don't expect the average piloy has ever seen it. but its use is shown in the FCOM.

There is no ACARS CB on a B777.

Quoting katekebo (Reply 95):
1) The first system to fail in ACARS. Because this system is not essential for flying the failure is unnoticed or ignored by the pilots.

If ACARS failed, the pilots would get a Status message. But there is no ACARS controller or ACARS computor on a B777. The computing is done inside a box inside the AIMS rack. This box does many other COMs functions as well. The management of ACARS is on the MFD on the pedestal. This MFD has thousands of functions, and ACARS control is just one of them.
 
lgbga
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:10 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:06 pm

Quoting flyorski (Reply 177):

That we are aware of. I have read that it landed. Who's to say it didn't refuel. Just a thought.
 
tapir
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:07 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:07 pm

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 180):

My guess is the government retracted the 240 a.m. time because by then it would been way passed Vietnam. Vietnam then would have denied the plane even crossed its air space which complicates matter for Msia if there was a demand made and we are not told about. Otherwise, I don't see why they waited for 4 days to reveal that the 2 .40 a.m, was the last contact made on the radar.

My guess is there probably some sort of demand or statement made that put Msia in difficult situation. The pilot or whoever in control of the plane got angry and decided to disappear.
 
aircal62
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 2:08 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:09 pm

reading through all the post and following the news closely a few things stand out to me at least. The two tracts discussed one following south and the other north appear to be mirror images, so this would infer that the data sets used to plot them gives an either or path which at this time cannot be determined. The southern path makes no sense, as why go to all the trouble just to fly off into the ocean and die. The northern tract seems to make all the sense based on what we now.

Here are my thoughts and conjecture on this:

I do not think this was a spur of the moment decision or random act. I believe that this has involved a lot of planning and a lot of people. Go back to some of the other discussed plots using planes around the time of the 9-11 attack. I feel that this is part of something bigger but not yet finished. It indeed may not bear fruit for those involved for many reasons. However even if this is a failed attempt at something there was and is a lot that who ever planned this has learned from this. I believe that both pilots were involved and working as a team with perhaps two or more people in the cabin. I know many want to say that the senior pilot could not be involved because of his being atheist, but what is on the surface I do not believe to be what was actually going on in the mans life. Did the senior pilot have a hand in the junior pilots being upgraded into the 777 I wonder? The climb to 45,000 feet and then steep decent would make anyone following the aircraft on radar think that the aircraft plunged into the ocean at or near the last contact point and search there, delaying looking and finding the actual flight path. I don't believe for a second that there was a fight to take control of this aircraft, or that someone else other than the pilots were flying this aircraft. Following known flight routes makes sense too. Military controllers become blind and really do not watch what they see every day. What becomes common is no longer seen even right in front of you. Going back and reviewing data, the aircraft will be found and plotted, but this going to take days and perhaps weeks. The 240 or so passengers sadly I feel are of no use, this is not about a hostage situation.

I also do not think that this is related to what is going on in Malaysia or China. The planning for this likely has been on going longer than these events have been news. There is very little of value to be gained by using an airliner in the local fights. My bet is that the aircraft is in northern Pakistan. Many elements of the Pakistani government and military are anti-west especially anti American,British and Isreal. I would think that a new transponder from another aircraft might be installed and if the aircraft is flown again, it might be showing up as a PIA flight. There are only I would guess 4 high value targets worth this much trouble: Isreal, London, NYC and Washington DC if you want to really make a statement.

So there you go, I have crossed into the land of conspiracy nuts. However how many of the things a week ago that were considered highly improbable are now considered the most likely. The "terrorist" have generally shown themselves to be very forward thinking, resourceful and able to accomplish the unimaginable. Finding the wreckage or evidence that this aircraft crashed in a most sad way may be the best outcome.
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:09 pm

Quoting Tapir (Reply 167):

Not exactly true. The people with stolen passport was not even detected by Msian authorities until the real owners told their passport were stolen. I wonder if they were ignorant of MH370 then would Msia discovered about them?

No, but the Malayasian confirmed they entered on their real passports. The stolen passports were used just once, to get into Europe. Besides, turning off ACARS on a plane you've never been on is basically impossible.

Even if a passenger held a gun to the pilots saying turn off all communications, my guess is that most would just shut off the Transponder. I have a feeling only the Captain of the plane really had the know how, as unfortunate as it is to believe.
 
nupogodi
Posts: 933
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:10 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 186):
On the pilots MFD they can deselect ACARS transmission by VHF and SATCOM.
This does not tuen off the VHF and SATCOM, just stops ACARS from using them.

Finally, another confirmation on this. I had been repeating this throughout this thread but people kept going on and on about the damn E/E bay.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
Freeman
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:36 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:10 pm

As others, I've followed this story unfold with great interest...

I believe certain facts have been leaked (which authorities are now trying to cover up with a disinformation campaign) that tell enough of the story to make an intelligent assessment:

One or both pilots are involved.

The passengers probably didn't know anything was amiss and were just settling in for the long red eye flight.

Assuming the aircraft turned and was flying to the NW, they were gaining time (flying into the darkness) which tells us they most likely landed at a military airfield (think Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia) and concealed the aircraft in a hangar before the sun came up...and well before the public was aware of a missing aircraft.

The plane has already been repainted and will soon be repurposed as a weapon of mass destruction. There's a reason they wanted a heavy (+/-7,500 mile range) jumbo jet and I have a news flash...it's not to sell off its parts or fly it to Switzerland to request asylum.

Potential targets include Tel Aviv (make it look like an Iranian op so that the rest of the world can justify another war) and Washington D.C. because the American regime (and I'm an American) is the biggest exporter of war the world has ever seen.

This is a very well planned, financed and rehearsed government sponsored act...think Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen or Iran.

The aircraft with it's new livery and transponder will (sooner than later) be utilized in an attack that will rival a 9/11 or any other act of terrorism we've ever witnessed.

One final thought...I'm startled by the amount of disinformation (as opposed to misinformation) over the last few days (and in light of the fact we haven't found any wreckage) this reaffirms and catalyzes my assessment of what has and is about to happen with this aircraft.
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:13 pm

Quoting aircal62 (Reply 189):
any elements of the Pakistani government and military are anti-west especially anti American,British and Isreal. I would think that a new transponder from another aircraft might be installed and if the aircraft is flown again, it might be showing up as a PIA flight.

I mean this is really fanciful. You do realize the aircraft livery would say "MALAYSIAN AIRLINES". Someone is going to spot it unless you repaint it, which involves another 15 people seeing it and having to keep their mouths shut.

Even if it made it to Pakistan, how the heck are you going to get around India without them noticing? There weren't even any Pakistanis on the flight?

If there was a target, my bet is the Petronas Towers. I hope Malayasia beefs up their air force to protect it.
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:14 pm

Quoting Freeman (Reply 192):

Cool story, are the Illuminati lizard overlords involved too?

Seriously, that's one of the worst conspiracy theories I've ever heard. Why go hijack a 777 full of pax when you could just buy an old 747-200 (similar to what Iran Air operates), paint it in Iran Air livery, and do the whole thing using it?

That would be cheaper, much more believable & way easier to do.

[Edited 2014-03-15 09:18:48]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
tapir
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:07 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:15 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 190):
No, but the Malayasian confirmed they entered on their real passports. The stolen passports were used just once, to get into Europe

Correction; Malaysia did not say that. Interpol said they entered Msia using their real passport. Msia would not say that because if they used their real passport then how did they get arrival stamp on their stolen passport? Wouldn't the immigration officer would stopped them for illegal entry?
 
ranold76
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:41 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:15 pm

How many of you logical-minded, career professionals would kill yourself and 230+ innocents over your political party's leader getting arrested?
Seemingly assinine question right? So why are some on here immediately assuming and applying it to the Capt.

Last time I checked, it hasn't been established who was in the cockpit and who may have been the PIC etc.
 
MarcoT
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 9:55 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:19 pm

Quoting SLCGuy (Reply 41):
If so, what's the possibility of this being a heist, and the plane was taken and landed somewhere? Have they checked all the airfields in the 2000 mile range they are looking at?

Close to zero. Do something like the London Great Heist and nobody will be really THAT interested, heck you can even enyoy your money somewhere abroad, if you manage to keep your mouth shut. Do something like this and you've just made sure that you'll be hunted down like Bin Laden...
Too short space for my favorite hopelessly long winded one liner
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:20 pm

Quoting Tapir (Reply 195):

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 190):
No, but the Malayasian confirmed they entered on their real passports. The stolen passports were used just once, to get into Europe

Correction; Malaysia did not say that. Interpol said they entered Msia using their real passport. Msia would not say that because if they used their real passport then how did they get arrival stamp on their stolen passport? Wouldn't the immigration officer would stopped them for illegal entry?

Interpol is probably more reliable. They get visas on arrival in Thailand and Malaysia. That was already covered earlier. Its like 14 days or something. Why would you use a fake passport to get into Malayasia if you can get in on a tourist Visa?
 
AYVN
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:47 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:23 pm

How big % of hull-loss incidents of all times has been due foul play? I don't think very high.
Most have been due human error of some kind ie pilot error, maintenance error, or manufacturing error of a component.
Why majority of posters here seem to think that this time foul play is the reason? Because plane hasn't been found?

I just can't belive the amount of wild speculation and theories in these threads. However I think I will share mine to be flamed here:

Something happend around last communication, it could have been:
Fire that started in or near wires/components needed for radio and other communication, and maybe disabling filight controls and/or disabling everyone
Or
Some kind of catastrophic event with the hull, ripping off wires for those components that failed, and maybe disabling flight controls and/or disabling everyone

How could it continue flight then? I don't know, but I don't know eather why brand new A340-600 for Etihad didn't shut its engines when it for sure didn't have working flight controls anymore or why Japan Airlines flight 123 would have been differnt from MH370 flight if it would have also lost communication and transponder and stayed in air till the end of fuel?

[Edited 2014-03-15 09:27:25]

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