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HNL2BOS
Posts: 20
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:12 pm

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 143):

Just stop, this is the worst theory.

You are telling me that instead of just giving the finger to Boeing and the US and just taking a 777, 787, or whatever plane they want from a Chinese carrier and tearing it apart they would rather put some grandiose hijacking scheme into effect and risk a true international incident? Hell, they could even impound some on the ground, empty, non-Chinese carriers plane claiming there was a national security threat and tear it apart it they wanted to. Worst that would come to is a bunch of court bickering.

[Edited 2014-03-15 15:14:40]
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:13 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 146):

You are probably the only expert on technical details of Boeing aircraft, so I have to ask.

In a perfect water landing scenario (with engines broke off and sank) how long a 777 can float, no pax/crew alive, no doors opened. Also can SATCOM operate battery power while it is floating.
 
windshear
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:13 pm

Looks like it could be a hijacking given the fact that ACARS and the transponder was manually switched off...

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03...-search-heads-toward-indian-ocean/

The 777 could have flown as far as Iran with the fuel onboard.

But such a stunt seems almost impossible for terrorists to undertake... But lets see what happens next...

"The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. "It is conclusive," he said.

He said evidence that led to the conclusion were signs that the plane's communications were switched off deliberately, data about the flight path and indications the plane was steered in a way to avoid detection by radar. "


Boaz.

[Edited 2014-03-15 15:15:42]
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
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mercure1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:14 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 144):
Could it fly for seven hours, and still get up to 45K at 40 or so minutes into the flight?

Technically it could eek up to apprx. FL440 at a Gross weight (195t) it was likely at ~VAMPI (more like 120min into flight).
e.g. Max climb thrust, M.800 (~ max angle climb speed), ISA+10.
It would have be down near 185t to achieve FL450, which would only likely be 8t above the ZFW for the flight.
mercure f-wtcc
 
jelliesR
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:17 pm

Quoting edmountain (Reply 151):
. The underlying premise is that the Malaysian PM described the act as deliberate;

If you look at the transcript he didn't say that.
He said the plane was flown deliberately, and that the transponder was turned OFF and the ACARS was DISABLED.

Deliberate was used only in conjunction with flying of the plane, i.e., the route it took was deliberate.

A subtle distinction but a real one. The most likely explanation may be deliberately disabling the comms. But it isn't the only explanation.
 
theaviator380
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:24 pm

What you guys make of that ?


Satellite asked #MH370 'can you hear me?' The 777 said 'yes' & the normal pings didn't immediately raise red flags Top
 
turjo101
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:24 pm

I am totally baffled by What kind of radar systems do Bangladesh and Nepal have. I keep hearing about the Bay of Bengal. Is it possible the airplane flew relatively low altitude over Bangladesh and then the short stretch of India before going up in altitude over Nepal and then western China (Xinjiang)?

Possibly pro-Uighur perpetrators?!?
 
theaviator380
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:26 pm

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 156):

Very slim chance, both countries especially India have got very good Radar system.
 
boacvc10
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:28 pm

Quoting edmountain (Reply 150):
The corollary therefore is that the person making that radio call was aware of the ACARS being disabled; they may well have done it themselves.

Did you leave out one other choice: the designated pilots were not at the controls of the aircraft, from the beginning of the flight. Think about it, as bad as the idea may be, could someone (or a group) have removed the pilots from the cockpit before pushback? Were the pilots movements accounted for in the CCTV as seen from the departure gate ?

Reasoning: the VHF radio transmission (Good Night) is puzzling, what would have been the reason for saying that at all? If someone is actively disrupting systems a few minutes prior, do you think there is a need for them to establish that they left Malaysia ATC ... when they were in the "zone" of taking over the aircraft. Either that means the person who spoke on the radio was a pilot under duress (e.g. short message instead of "xxx.xxx vietnam atc all right, good night mh370 heavy") or the culprits were trying to buy time, and didn't know what to do, or they ___had a schedule to keep___ when they knew radars would be unavailable --- why do I say "schedule to keep", think of the really weird jagged flight path they were following...... It's pretty odd seeing that circuitous path when they could have made a dash for their ultimate destination fast.

But, I understand we are only seeing a it of the puzzle, but truly, why waste hours on those odd legs out to the sea when they wanted to go north or south?
Up, up and Away!
 
trnswrld
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:38 pm

A lot of pilots keep the frequency change acknowledgement short and simple. I'm a controller and when I ship a plane to the next sector sometimes all I get is "cya" lol literally that's it. Saying "alright goodnight" doesn't seem out of the ordinary at all.

[Edited 2014-03-15 15:41:20]
 
edmountain
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:40 pm

Quoting jelliesR (Reply 154):
If you look at the transcript he didn't say that.
He said the plane was flown deliberately, and that the transponder was turned OFF and the ACARS was DISABLED.

Deliberate was used only in conjunction with flying of the plane, i.e., the route it took was deliberate.

A subtle distinction but a real one. The most likely explanation may be deliberately disabling the comms. But it isn't the only explanation.

Well his exact words were "these movements are consistent with deliberate action by someone on the plane." His choice of "was disabled", "switched off", and deliberate all point to evidence of active choices by someone on board. Could they have been responding to some brewing failure? Perhaps, but given the routine radio contact *after* things started to happen I think this was likely man-made.
 
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mercure1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:41 pm

Quoting windshear (Reply 153):
The 777 could have flown as far as Iran with the fuel onboard.

Based on the zig routing, it could have made it to SE Iran direct from IGREX, e.g. Saravan, Iran.
However, to do it, w/ the likely fuel on board, it would have had to cut across Indian airspace at normal cruise levels (undetected)...
Flying a southern route over intl waters to avoid detection would have taken over 7.5hrs on this circuitous routing, e.g. IGARI, IGREX, south of Sri Lanka, etc.
My sense is that is beyond the range of the flight and also not aligned w/ the Inmarsat data.
mercure f-wtcc
 
bajamatic
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:42 pm

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 158):

I believe this to be the case. This one the FO's first run in a 777, right? Stands to reason that the flight crew may have never met him before and apparently fake ID's are a dime a dozen in Malaysia.
 
windshear
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:49 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 161):
Based on the zig routing, it could have made it to SE Iran direct from IGREX, e.g. Saravan, Iran.

Iran would not be a likely destination, as Al Qaeda and Iran are foes... But other places in that area for sure...

I will bring the quote again from a Malaysian official:

"The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. "It is conclusive," he said.

He said evidence that led to the conclusion were signs that the plane's communications were switched off deliberately, data about the flight path and indications the plane was steered in a way to avoid detection by radar. "

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
edmountain
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:49 pm

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 158):
Did you leave out one other choice: the designated pilots were not at the controls of the aircraft, from the beginning of the flight. Think about it, as bad as the idea may be, could someone (or a group) have removed the pilots from the cockpit before pushback? Were the pilots movements accounted for in the CCTV as seen from the departure gate ?

Cannot be excluded by why invoke a whole new set of unknown characters when the original cast hasn't even been looked at yet?
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:54 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 151):
In a perfect water landing scenario (with engines broke off and sank) how long a 777 can float, no pax/crew alive, no doors opened. Also can SATCOM operate battery power while it is floating.

If the crew is dead you're not going to get a perfect water landing -- the engines would flameout and the airplane would "fall" from the sky. If everybody was alive and a perfect water landing was made, one would hope the airplane would float as long as USAir did allowing everybody to get into the slide/rafts. Nobody really knows though. I can't say for sure but I'm certain SATCOM would not be powered.
 
EricR
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:56 pm

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 158):

Did you leave out one other choice: the designated pilots were not at the controls of the aircraft, from the beginning of the flight. Think about it, as bad as the idea may be, could someone (or a group) have removed the pilots from the cockpit before pushback? Were the pilots movements accounted for in the CCTV as seen from the departure gate ?

If this were the case, and I was a pax, I would be using the emergency escapes to get off the plane. I know someone will say that maybe this was done without the pax noticing.....but this is as likely as aliens from another galaxy stealing the plane.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:02 pm

Quoting edmountain (Reply 149):
It’s now more than 12 hours after that rather remarkable press conference by the Malaysian Prime Minister wherein a surprising amount of information was revealed and yet many of posts around here seem either oblivious or willfully ignorant of it.

Thanks for the summary and welcome to anet. I have been away from the forum for a while so just point me in the right direction if the following has already been answered (I read through almost all of part 26). Whatever became of the EHM data reported in the NYT article that was supposedly transmitted after the plane turned back west, including the weird 45,000 fpm decent data?
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
spacecadet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:06 pm

Quoting edmountain (Reply 149):
It%u2019s now more than 12 hours after that rather remarkable press conference by the Malaysian Prime Minister wherein a surprising amount of information was revealed and yet many of posts around here seem either oblivious or willfully ignorant of it.

  

I posted earlier that some people apparently do not want to believe the prevailing theory (even if you accept it as just a theory) despite all available evidence and statements from the PM, who was obviously reading a *very* carefully worded script. This did not sound like it was written by somebody who does not understand the nuances of the English language. He knew exactly what he was saying. He left himself just enough wiggle room by refuting that they'd made a conclusion that it was a hijacking, but he also made it very clear that this was a deliberate act. And he emphasized that fact in his delivery.

I understand that not everybody watched the press conference - here's a link if you want to now, it is only about 13 minutes long: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWvWmlaPeAQ

Also note what he does *not* say. There is no mention that I can recall of any mechanical theories, the possibility of fire or any other accidental causes. The *only* thing he talks about, and the only area of investigation they are now "focused" on, is the deliberate actions of somebody in the cockpit. We just don't know who that is yet, why, or where they ended up.

There are still a whole host of questions revolving around the deliberate action that was taken to hide and fly this plane somewhere other than its intended destination - we can (and should) all be asking those questions. But continuing to talk about 7 hour long fires or slowly-developing structural problems or whatever else are just distractions at this point.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
boacvc10
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:06 pm

Quoting edmountain (Reply 164):
why invoke a whole new set of unknown characters when the original cast hasn't even been looked at yet?

Because. the a.net community often jumps to conclusions, and right now, we need that to figure out where to look - 9 days, 239 people, no ELT, no wreckage, not a peep, no leaks.

Also: Day 1-3: the Malaysian team knew the radar pings, they alluded to a western search area, a.net community huffed and puffed and chose to criticize them. They also guess the South China seas were a red herring, as the Oil Rig sighting, Floating wreckage sighting was not jiving with radar data. In fact their spokesmen almost gave up this (other) info at times ... (".. there are other information we are not prepared to release at this time...") paraphrase.

Saturday/Sunday: Mandala499 mentions, he had informal news about the radar pings at high altitude, low altitude, so they knew the track even then.

Since the region is under satellite surveillance by many remote sensing platforms, and geostationary platforms, and military assets, would a civilian trained professional pilot have the time/access to all of the data points necessary to actually, plan, execute and successfully evade ground and space assets? This is not remotely possible, even if he has use of a homebrew Flight Simulator -- it's just too complex and still won't explain HOW he had access to so much information from diverse sources. Was he a propulsion expert? Was he a satcom expert? Was he even close to being an aerospace A&P engineer? So, let's consider the pilots to be victims here for what it's worth. Otherwise, why not consider the roles of any of those cabin crew, who would have better access to the systems prior to push back.

And, the lucky mix of data from the satellite carrier (Elevation angles), and engine health management, if it was a pilot's training to know all aircraft systems, of this 777, and he wanted to go incognito, how to you reconcile he turns off the primary transponders, backup transponders, EE bay hardware etc., and then FORGETS to turn the circuit breakers for the satellite modems - which are in the same location? That satellite modem is a heavy power hog, and would have its own circuit breaker on a panel in the EE bay --- should it not? It cannot be hardwired to the aircraft battery, in most cases, it might have its own onboard battery for backup reasons, and that is something that would be included in a training manual of that system.

Why would a professional pilot (assuming we think he is rogue) not know that his movements might still be visible as he is not totally radio dark.

That is the reason why I don't think the original pilot crew were actually flying the plane, they had been unfortunately "offed" or "were pressured" prior to the takeoff.
Up, up and Away!
 
windshear
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:09 pm

I guess people are not comfortable with the truth

Here is more of what the prime minister said:

"Najib also said that authorities are now trying to trace the airplane across two possible "corridors" -- a northern corridor from the border of Kazakstan and Turkmenistan through to northern Thailand, and a southern corridor from Indonesia to the southern Indian Ocean.

The prime minister said that searching in the South China Sea, where the plane first lost contact with air traffic controllers, would be ended. He said the new search corridors were based on the latest available satellite data.

Najib also confirmed that Malaysian air force defense radar picked up traces of the plane turning back westward, crossing over Peninsular Malaysia into the northern stretches of the Strait of Malacca. Authorities previously had said this radar data could not be verified.

He said the jetliner's "movements are consistent with the deliberate action of someone on the plane," BBC News reported."
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:11 pm

Well, the Malaysian authorities did not inspire confidence at all.

It was natural to be very skeptical.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:14 pm

The latest theory seems to be Malaysian Islamists according to the telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...surface-in-case-of-lost-plane.html
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
boacvc10
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:15 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 166):
If this were the case

If the perpetrator(s) were hiding in the cockpit or had authorized access to the cockpit for departure, you, as passenger, would have no clue. Red-eye flight, dark outside, positive rate of climb, warm temp in cabin, you would be drowsy, and even if the aircraft would be turning, you wouldn't know the direction of flight ...

and for jumping off board when you are seated, how would you know what is happening on the other side of the cockpit doors which are sound proof and reinforced?
Up, up and Away!
 
edmountain
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:19 pm

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 169):
Because. the a.net community often jumps to conclusions, and right now, we need that to figure out where to look - 9 days, 239 people, no ELT, no wreckage, not a peep, no leaks.

I fear that adding more baseless speculation into the mix will only distract from analyzing what is already known. Why rush to look for other suspects while the current crew and passengers have not yet been excluded?

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 169):
And, the lucky mix of data from the satellite carrier (Elevation angles), and engine health management, if it was a pilot's training to know all aircraft systems, of this 777, and he wanted to go incognito, how to you reconcile he turns off the primary transponders, backup transponders, EE bay hardware etc., and then FORGETS to turn the circuit breakers for the satellite modems - which are in the same location? That satellite modem is a heavy power hog, and would have its own circuit breaker on a panel in the EE bay --- should it not? It cannot be hardwired to the aircraft battery, in most cases, it might have its own onboard battery for backup reasons, and that is something that would be included in a training manual of that system.

Why would a professional pilot (assuming we think he is rogue) not know that his movements might still be visible as he is not totally radio dark.

That is the reason why I don't think the original pilot crew were actually flying the plane, they had been unfortunately "offed" or "were pressured" prior to the takeoff.

Is the satellite modem possibly needed for other things that he might possibly need, e.g. for GPS input to the flight management system?
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:20 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 165):
If the crew is dead you're not going to get a perfect water landing -- the engines would flameout and the airplane would "fall" from the sky. If everybody was alive and a perfect water landing was made, one would hope the airplane would float as long as USAir did allowing everybody to get into the slide/rafts. Nobody really knows though. I can't say for sure but I'm certain SATCOM would not be powered.

I should have been more clear, this is based on all these theories flight crew may have done something bad.

-Cabin Crew and Passengers are dead.
-Flight crew took it to remote ocean and landed perfectly on water. Engines sheared off and sank
-No one opened doors so no slides.

I was thinking of possibility it is for 4hrs-7hrs while it just floats. That matches the pings for 7 hours, no sign of plane, no debris field.

Thanks again.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:21 pm

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 169):
how to you reconcile he turns off the primary transponders, backup transponders, EE bay hardware etc., and then FORGETS to turn the circuit breakers for the satellite modems - which are in the same location?

The whole E/E bay thing has been debunked, you can turn off ACARS transmission from VHF/HF/SATCOM from the cockpit.

Also, he would not need to turn off both transponders, only one is operational at one time. Setting the transponder to standby will eliminate your secondary radar return entirely, even if both transponders are in good working order. This is by design, since - well - that's what you want it to do.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
EricR
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:21 pm

[quote=boacvc10,reply=173]

The passengers would have known because your post said:

"could someone (or a group) have removed the pilots from the cockpit"

If they removed the pilots from the cockpit, it would have been seen by the pax.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:22 pm

Quoting edmountain (Reply 174):
Is the satellite modem possibly needed for other things that he might possibly need, e.g. for GPS input to the flight management system?

Absolutely not. GPS is a separate system. Many aircraft are not equipped with SATCOM to begin with.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
Shanwick1011Z
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:25 pm

A lot of contributors let their heckles rise over this simulator the captain had.

If he is the hijacker and if he was contemplating suicide I would expect lot of liquor or something
in his house before a carefully built enthusiast's dream machine.

If he is the hijacker and the aircraft has landed somewhere he has pulled off more than a bit of a coup
considering everything against him.

If the FO was not on his side he then had to be at least cuffed or locked out of the cockpit.

If the captain was to fly for another 4/5/6/7 hours possibly until first light to land on a strange and short
runway possibly hiding for sometime prior under the skirts of another aircraft THEN HE NEEDED HELP!
....if only to stay awake!

Was he training one/two other persons on his own simulator for this? (hence the lavish sim)
Was he practising on ultra short runways?

I believe this aircraft was lying idle for an extended period.....could persons have concealed themselves somewhere
like electronics bays etc?

I do not believe this captain was in the suicide frame of mind nor do I believe he is a mass murderer, I see more of an idealist
and perfectionist in him.

If he has pulled it off I see hope yet for all concerned at this late hour.

We hope and pray so!
 
chaseus1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:26 pm

Quoting ThunderboltDrgn (Reply 172):

The latest theory seems to be Malaysian Islamists according to the telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...surface-in-case-of-lost-plane.html

That's similar to what I was thinking and posting.... that it looked like a possible 9/11 copy... the plane departed, climbed out, and turned around, still full of fuel...... much like 9/11... it just seemed to be in a similar style to start....

And then, maybe luckily, something went wrong.
 
dandelany
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:26 pm

Here is a question I have not seen asked, perhaps because it is a stupid question: Are there any known combinations of geography + terrain that would be a suitable replacement for an airstrip tarmac in a pinch? Eg. something like an enormous dry lake bed with a particular type of silt that turns cementlike when it dries, or a desert with flat dunes and hardpacked sand? I'm not a geologist, I don't know these things.

Is it possible whoever was in control of the a/c knew about an enormous natural area where a plane could be safely landed on instruments, without any airstrip at all? Seems like a longshot, but figured I'd ask since it seems about as likely to me as them landing at an actual airstrip.
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:27 pm

Whatever the truth is, the fact that a passenger aircraft can disappear and travel halfway across the world through the airspace of several different countries is pretty scary. Basically it could be anywhere in Asia. Whilst Search and Rescue were looking for it in the sea, it was still in the air flying... somewhere.
 
boacvc10
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:28 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 177):
"could someone (or a group) have removed the pilots from the cockpit"

I meant, ... "could someone (or a group) have incapacitated the pilots within the cockpit"
Up, up and Away!
 
UALWN
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:29 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 168):
The *only* thing he talks about, and the only area of investigation they are now "focused" on, is the deliberate actions of somebody in the cockpit.

Not quite. He explicitly said this:

"Despite media reports that the plane was hijacked, I wish to be very clear: we are still investigating all possibilities as to what caused MH370 to deviate from its original flight path."

All possibilities.
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/350/380
 
jcxroberts
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:30 pm

Quoting Vctony (Reply 100):
I don't understand the "southern" route and why so many people seem to think the aircraft went in that direction. Due to the last primary radar readings, the aircraft was heading in a NW direction, which would go along with the "northern" route theory. I think that the aircraft is in some remote desert area in Western China.


Indonesia says they got no radar pings and it's hard to avoid Indonesia on the Southern corridor as it has been published.
 
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garpd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:31 pm

You think any eyebrows will lift if Iran Air turns up on a scheduled arrival in Europe some place with a freshly painted 777 in a few weeks time?

Or will we shortly be seeing news reports from Iran, where the state aircraft manufacturer is proudly rolling out it's new invention: A plane that looks remarkably similar to a 777-200ER?
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:32 pm

Quoting bajamatic (Reply 162):

I believe this to be the case. This one the FO's first run in a 777, right? Stands to reason that the flight crew may have never met him before and apparently fake ID's are a dime a dozen in Malaysia.

I don't think it makes sense to give somebody their first flight on type on a short overnight red-eye in which there would only be one experienced crew member? If the Captain had a medical condition then the FO might struggle on his own...

I'd also like to know how well this flight crew knew each other? If the pilots hadn't worked together then yes, maybe someone did take his place (it's way too easy to get quality fake ID in that part of the world) but I would assume that at least one crew member might have met him before. I was thinking that if the two plots had worked together before maybe they had issues - you might have a well experienced, by the book career Captain with an arrogant young FO, half his age and who we know has family connections and has been on a flight when cockpit rules were broken. This might have been the time that some issues were resolved by one of them.

On a side note, the other Captain in the pic with the MH370 FO and the two girls from Melbourne on the HKT flight - assume he is still with MH, could he get fired as a result of the reported cockpit behavior on a flight that he was in charge of? The release of those pics must have some consequences.

[Edited 2014-03-15 16:35:23]

[Edited 2014-03-15 16:36:24]
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boacvc10
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:32 pm

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 176):
The whole E/E bay thing has been debunked,

No, the satellite modem is a separate subsystem entirely, it's role is the uplink/downlink, the ACARS is a terminal, that has multiple comm channels. Yes, you can turn it off (ACARS), and then, (to stay incognito) you would want to turn the satellite modem off as well. -- what was so difficult about that ?

See, most of us - we are trying to solve a problem with evidence that we can only see partially. Perhaps what we need to do, for this weird case, is to see what class of problem we can identify based upon the items that we don't see.
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Ytraveller
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:32 pm

First off: I have been following these threads since Part 1 last Friday, and I offer my condolences to the families of the victims. I can’t imagine how hard it must be to go through a week with all the false leads and conflicting information, yet not a single piece of wreckage has been discovered.

I don’t know if this has been posted yet, but, according to CNN:


“Official: U.S. intelligence community leaning toward theory that pilots were responsible for fate of Flight 370.”


Source: http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/
 
chaseus1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:34 pm

This story just posted about a plot is interesting, because it gives new ideas on how hijackers could have gotten cockpit access. maybe crew involved? Just not sure why that ACARS would have been switched off ahead of time, or why no PAX made cell calls.

[Edited 2014-03-15 16:36:33]
 
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zeke
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:36 pm

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 185):

The Australian over the horizon radar is hard to avoid as well, it look at the plan view of the aircraft, it could pickup B2s where other radars would not.

The Indian Navy has not said much, the have a good radar facility at Port Blair.
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nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:38 pm

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 188):
No, the satellite modem is a separate subsystem entirely, it's role is the uplink/downlink, the ACARS is a terminal, that has multiple comm channels. Yes, you can turn it off (ACARS), and then, (to stay incognito) you would want to turn the satellite modem off as well. -- what was so difficult about that ?

Yeah, we're in agreement, and that's exactly what I said.

It is highly likely the pilot was not even aware of SATCOM pings/keep-alives. This is a low-level detail about how networking works. I think many professionals were surprised to learn this week about SATCOM's constant contact.
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EricR
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:39 pm

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 182):

Whatever the truth is, the fact that a passenger aircraft can disappear and travel halfway across the world through the airspace of several different countries is pretty scary. Basically it could be anywhere in Asia. Whilst Search and Rescue were looking for it in the sea, it was still in the air flying... somewhere.

A lot of people keep on saying this, but why is this so surprising? Most countries are small and can be overflown in an hour or two. It would take about 15 minutes just for the controllers to notice and attempt to contact the aircraft. With no response, then what would most countries do? Contact their military to investigate? How much time would that take to get the proper levels of clearance just to make the initial contact with the military and then the military would need to go through several levels of clearance before jets could be scrambled......by this time, the airplane is in another country.

I highly doubt most countries in this world have fast response plans in place for something like this.... Heck even the US did not have a rapid response strategy prior to 9/11. To think other countries do is wishful thinking.
 
trex8
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:40 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 16):
What Inmarsat is seeing is the time it has taken to do a handshake from the satellite to the aircraft and back again. The satellite is in a fixed position in a stationary orbit, so the time it takes to do this handshake can be used to work out the radius of a sphere around the satellite of a given distance, that distance is the speed of light/ handshake timex0.5. Where that sphere intersects with earth, it generates a small circle.

That arc they show on the sat maps goes thru Vietnam and the gulf of THailand too though was not highlited in red. If the plane could be anywhere along that entire arc why can't it have dropped into the sea off Vietnam still?
 
edmountain
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:42 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 194):
That arc they show on the sat maps goes thru Vietnam and the gulf of THailand too though was not highlited in red. If the plane could be anywhere along that entire arc why can't it have dropped into the sea off Vietnam still?

I think the theory is the plane is (was) most likely along the red highlighted segments?
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 191):
The Indian Navy has not said much, the have a good radar facility at Port Blair.

Apparently they also have one on mainland facing Bay of Bengal with max range of 500NM, a modified Israeli Super Green Pine, interestingly used for missile interceptor testing.
 
Razza74
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:45 pm

Piggybacking KLM836 across Asia would enable MH370 remain undetected
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:45 pm

Quoting HNL2BOS (Reply 150):
Just stop, this is the worst theory.

The worst? Really? You're telling me the guy who thought it flew into lower-outer space is a better theory? Or at this point, it catching on fire and flying for 7 more hours is a better theory? Or that a catastrophic bomb is a better theory? Or an all out electrical failure, even though they could fly airways for hours, is a better theory? Based on what we know now. You believe that my theory is the absolute worst theory and I need to stop talking? I'll give you that pilot suicide is probably a better theory, but it too has questions.

The bigger question is why does it matter to you? Why don't you just ignore it (like I did with the guy who thought they kept ascending into lower-outer space). What is it about this forum where we can't just agree to disagree and move on?
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jcxroberts
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:46 pm

he latest theory seems to be Malaysian Islamists according to the telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...surface-in-case-of-lost-plane.html


I imagine they have checked out the flight manifest pretty thoroughly by now. Most of the flight was Chinese so the number of possible Islamist terrorists is really small. If they are leaning to the pilots that's why.

I wonder if they know what was in cargo.
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