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Tangowhisky
Posts: 667
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:27 pm

Quoting edmountain (Reply 38):
If the probability of making such a trip with having zero phones register is very low then I think the absence of any cellphone network registration should be considered quite a significant finding. That finding (if confirmed) adds credence to a flight path out of cell phone range, presumably the so-called southern arc.

Thanks. Whether a cell phone registered or did not register, I am sure the authorities will keep this info confidential as the potential hijacker would know what areas have been eliminated in locating the plane. For example, if they did get a cell phone that registered to a network, it won;t be wise to publicly disclose the info.
Only the paranoid survive
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:28 pm

According to the Independent, 3000miles (2600nm) was the aircrafts maximum range at FL300.
I think this is the first time I have seen such a specific range specification.

How much further could they have reached at FL350/400?

http://www.independent.co.uk/incomin.../w620/16March_MalaysiaPlaneweb.jpg
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...and-crew-investigated-9195320.html


Regarding Bloomberg article, which was timestamped at around 5 this morning UK time,
neither The Independent, The Guardian, The BBC or the Mirror mentions anything about
it, so it could just have been Bllomberg who made an assumption that it could have reached
that far if they have followed the southern route.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
11Bravo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:29 pm

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 81):
Maybe not in this case, but I can think of many scenarios in which suicide is possibly the best option.


Well, as you might imagine I WAS refering to this case,.... as odd as that might seem. I cannot imagine a logical or rational reason for killing 200+ other people in your own quest for self destruction.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
KIAS
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:31 pm

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 97):
ACARS messages are never transferred over Wifi. Some airlines may use a separate Gatelink Wifi connection to transfer large datasets to/from the aircraft.

I think what he meant to say (or is confused about) is that data such as EHM summaries can be sent over gatelink to avoid broadcast costs.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 99):
I´m not sure at what level but my guess is the maximum it could reach would be 45,000 to 48,000

Less, and dependent on weight.
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
rcair1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:31 pm

Quoting k83713 (Reply 94):
It only gives perspective how many phones would be switched on. If airline doesn't require them off, the number can be much more than just 20 forgotten to be offlined...

If, in fact, we had 200 phones on and cell phones were registering with towers - don't you think we'd know?
We have heard nothing but "they are ringing" comments - which we know are not useful.
They found pings on a SATCOM - do you think they would not have checked at least the cell network in Malaysia by now?

It is such an obvious thing to look for .... And not technically that hard.

Can somebody please go up in a plane to 30K, sit somewhere and try to call/text while flying over area with good coverage.
Wait - somebody has. Well - they did not go above 8K.
Here is there results. BTW - they were flying private (propeller driven) planes - I think a fast jet would impact it negatively.

See http://physics911.net/projectachilles/

altitude (feet) probability of cellphone call getting through
4,000 0.400
8,000 0.100
12,000 0.040
16,000 0.025
20,000 0.016
24,000 0.011
28,000 0.008
32,000 0.006

At the altitude of most of MH370's flight - probability - less than 1 in 100 calls would go through.
Now - does this mean the phone would not 'register' with the network - not sure.
rcair1
 
flyenthu
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:31 pm

Has it been confirmed that it was the captain's voice as this article says:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...words-said-after-plane-seized.html
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting Freeman (Reply 100):
Keep your eyes on Tel Aviv...

The only problem with Tel Aviv as a target is that the Israelis wouldn't hesitate for a moment to shoot down that aircraft once their air force picked it up. Assuming the aircraft was taken with the intent of being repurposed as a long-range delivery system for a nuclear, biological or chemical weapon the target would need to be one where the military defending it would hesitate to down a commercial aircraft.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Ryanair01
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:32 pm

I don't know how accurate these reports are, but it is being reported that the Captain was a major supporter of the Malaysian Opposition Politician Anwar Ibrahim, who was sentenced to five years jail for homosexual acts on the 7th March.

It is being reported that Captain Shah actually attended the courtroom where he witnessed Anwar's sentencing, immediately before reporting to work for MH370. There are various pictures circulating of the Captain wearing an anti government "Democracy is Dead" protest T-shirt in support of Anwar (scroll down the linked report about half way).

There are also unconfirmed suggestions Captain Shah's wife and daughter moved out of their home in the days before MH370's disappearance.

If the above is true, the combination of a captain under huge emotional stress, angry with his country and the seemingly high level of B777 operational knowledge needed to systematically turn the various systems off and vanish at the point of hand over between Malay and Vietnamese air traffic control, makes crew sabotage seem very possible. A politically motivated act highlighting Malaysia's social problems, by a Captain who doesn't feel like they have a whole lot to live for is becoming a tragically compelling line of inquiry.

It would also explain the Malaysian Government's alleged caginess about confirming details. Already the European Union has expressed concerns about the Anwar trial, suggesting it looks to be a political show trial. If the Malaysian Government admit that a Malaysian plane was lost due to something most people see as political detention, analysts believe Anwar would probably win any elections were he not in jail, it would be very hard for the government to survive.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-walk-security-final-time-off.html
 
11Bravo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:34 pm

Quoting iberiadc852 (Reply 93):
What hypothesis would fit with that diagram?.

Pilot/Aircrew suicide.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:34 pm

I don't think we'll see it in Tel Aviv any time soon, and if any type of unidentified aircraft does go anywhere near Israel then it will be shot down long before it gets close enough to do any damage.
 
socalgeo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting iberiadc852 (Reply 93):
What hypothesis would fit with that diagram?. That once they (the hijackers), could go to where they wanted, (in a straight line, as it seems?), they ran out of fuel?

It's hard for me to say, we came up with a range estimate of 2970 miles, but we really don't know. It could be more, but it is likely that it is not more than 15 or 20% more...(300 - 600 miles). So we can be pretty confident that it couldn't go much longer, given the time and range constraints that we have (6 hrs, 2970 mi, +/-)

I have to believe that the Australians would have seen it on radar if it got much closer. So I think that its a pretty fair guess that the plane went into the ocean.

If the report of the last "ping" being located "1000 miles from Perth", is real, and accurate, then I think it narrows the location down a lot. Check out this map:


Live Map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b52c362966934

If the report is real, then I'm thinking that red shaded ellipse is where the search will need to focus. This is because the plane could have taken a straight route through Indonesian airspace, which would have put it at the bottom of the ellipse, which is roughly 1000 miles from Perth.
if the plane went around Indonesian airspace then I think that it could be at the top of the ellipse. The curved red line is simply an arc that shows the 1000 mile distance from Perth within the ellipse, I doubt that the ping location will be this accurate, but it helps me visualize it so I put it on the map...

I guess I really didn't answer your question, and I cant really say, buy if the plane is found at the northern part of the ellipse then I could draw a flight path that is aimed for Perth. Perhaps, if anyone was in control, they wanted asylum, and actually thought they could make it. I think if it is at the south end then perhaps they were heading for Antarctica, knowing that they would not make it.

I doubt we will ever find out.

SoCal Geo
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 106):
If, in fact, we had 200 phones on and cell phones were registering with towers - don't you think we'd know?

I believe they never registered because they never reached any base station coverage since there are no base stations across Indian ocean. Also on the early stage of missing from the route, base stations registrations is what could help to authorities to track the plane. Maybe it would explain why no jet was sent, maybe there was no primary radar coverage...
But it's just maybies going from logic based on certain assumptions...

[Edited 2014-03-16 14:37:59]

[Edited 2014-03-16 14:46:01]
 
KIAS
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:39 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 99):
Suicide is a very rational decision and the thought process leading to it is too.

"Over 90 percent of people who commit suicide have been diagnosed with mental illness."
Link

"More than two-thirds of all suicides are driven by a mentally disordered mind, experts say."
Link

Typically, "rational suicide" is a term used to describe terminally ill people who are seeking a quick resolution to their pain and suffering.
Link
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
glbltrvlr
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:45 pm

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 101):
I think the intention there was to say that MH subscribed to basic AHM through VHF only, and EHM over SATCOM. I believe these would be "rules" configured into the maintenance computer, right?

The airline will take link cost and message source into consideration when programming the rules for sending messages, but that is usually done in the CMF. The essence of the statement is correct though.
 
slvrblt
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:46 pm

Quoting Freeman (Reply 100):
I posted this yesterday...

One or both pilots are involved.

The passengers probably didn't know anything was amiss and were just settling in for the long red eye flight.

Assuming the aircraft turned and was flying to the NW, they were gaining time (flying into the darkness) which tells us they most likely landed at a military airfield (think Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia) and concealed the aircraft in a hangar before the sun came up...and well before the public was aware of a missing aircraft.

The plane has already been repainted and will soon be repurposed as a weapon of mass destruction. There's a reason they wanted a heavy (+/-7,500 mile range) jumbo jet and I have a news flash...it's not to sell off its parts or fly it to Switzerland to request asylum.

Potential targets include Tel Aviv (make it look like an Iranian op so that the rest of the world can justify another war) and Washington D.C. because the American regime (and I'm an American) is the biggest exporter of war the world has ever seen.

This is a very well planned, financed and rehearsed government sponsored act...think Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen or Iran.

The aircraft with it's new livery and transponder will (sooner than later) be utilized in an attack that will rival a 9/11 or any other act of terrorism we've ever witnessed.

---

Still think this is fantasy?

Keep your eyes on Tel Aviv...



^^^^^^
This.
I alluded to something similar to this scenario back in part 14, reply 293. I hope to god this guy and me are both wrong, I hope these poor folks have found a final resting place somewhere.
But it makes a chilling amount of sense.
..everything works out in the end.
 
Tangowhisky
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:47 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 110):
Pilot/Aircrew suicide.

If it was suicide, then he knowingly also wanted to take others with him. Why stop at that? Why not also crash into KL? The hijacker took meticulous detail to not get noticed. With such skill, he could have done bigger damage if he is depressed or has mental illness.

With the way the communications were turned off, the professionalism in flying the plane, I don't think this is suicide. I think this airplane had a lot more fuel than was documented (the captain signs off the fuel sheet) and its safest route with not being detected en-route (flying in the dark) is somewhere like Somalia through the Indian Ocean.
Only the paranoid survive
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:48 pm

I have refrained from posting,because quite frankly we dont know what happened an all these 30 threads, are just a big guessing game.

What I know is that the Malaysian government has a big black eye from this tragedy, The Airline is in the middle of the biggest PR disaster ever, and as days pass the media/world/authorities, are getting nervous because of the lack of real info about this.

All we have is reports of scattered data and conflicting info.

By now they should have released the pilots, because quite frankly if they were going to commit suicide, the data we have (as scarce as it is) points to something else. Who would fly so many hours to commit suicide?

As much as Iike this resolved, I think that they will never find the aircraft, this will continue , and someday they will give us a made up explanation to calm the public.

NO, I dont have a tin foil hat on, but I find it imposible that all that very disputed zone with the USA and the chinesse involved, they have no info, not came forward with tracking.

This sad event will aunt us for a long time.

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
Viscount724
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:49 pm

Quoting k83713 (Reply 98):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 96):
and the aircraft kept flying until it ran out of fuel in the middle of the Indian Ocean.

What about others on board then? No attempt to do anything?

For the first 5 or 6 hours they wouldn't know anything was wrong, especially at night. And beyond that point when they wondered why they hadn't arrived in PEK, what could they do?
 
aseem
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:52 pm

To all those suicide theorists. If the Captain were to commit suicide, why does he have go off the radar. He does not even have to go to full cruising height. He can just plunge into the Gulf of Thailand.

rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
capri
Posts: 499
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:52 pm

Quoting slvrblt (Reply 116):
Quoting Freeman (Reply 100):
I posted this yesterday...

One or both pilots are involved.

The passengers probably didn't know anything was amiss and were just settling in for the long red eye flight.

Assuming the aircraft turned and was flying to the NW, they were gaining time (flying into the darkness) which tells us they most likely landed at a military airfield (think Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia) and concealed the aircraft in a hangar before the sun came up...and well before the public was aware of a missing aircraft.

The plane has already been repainted and will soon be repurposed as a weapon of mass destruction. There's a reason they wanted a heavy (+/-7,500 mile range) jumbo jet and I have a news flash...it's not to sell off its parts or fly it to Switzerland to request asylum.

Potential targets include Tel Aviv (make it look like an Iranian op so that the rest of the world can justify another war) and Washington D.C. because the American regime (and I'm an American) is the biggest exporter of war the world has ever seen.

This is a very well planned, financed and rehearsed government sponsored act...think Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen or Iran.

The aircraft with it's new livery and transponder will (sooner than later) be utilized in an attack that will rival a 9/11 or any other act of terrorism we've ever witnessed.

---

Still think this is fantasy?

Keep your eyes on Tel Aviv...



^^^^^^
This.
I alluded to something similar to this scenario back in part 14, reply 293. I hope to god this guy and me are both wrong, I hope these poor folks have found a final resting place somewhere.
But it makes a chilling amount of sense.

how would you know if the plane is not already in Israel? How would we know if Israel is the party that was interested in the "Cargo" in the plane and not Iran? Speculations and theories will never end.
 
cabochris
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting Ryanair01 (Reply 109):

UK Rag Tabloid!! Shameful!

"Captain was a major supporter of the Malaysian Opposition Politician Anwar Ibrahim, who was sentenced to five years jail for homosexual acts on the 7th March."

So are many Malay's. This is also not the first time this action has happened in Malaysia, plus its only a 5 year sentence (house arrest) and stupid political move that will backfire in this day and age.

"It is being reported that Captain Shah actually attended the courtroom where he witnessed Anwar's sentencing, immediately before reporting to work for MH370"

So not true.... this is criminal! Anwar was acquitted and that acquittal was overturned on March 4th, 2014. It was not a sentencing, and Captain Shah was NOT there.

"There are also unconfirmed suggestions Captain Shah's wife and daughter moved out of their home in the days before MH370's disappearance"

Someone interpreted that this occurred. When only the wife and Captain moved into a home owned by them, where their single adult daughter is living.

"There are various pictures circulating of the Captain wearing an anti government "Democracy is Dead" protest T-shirt in support of Anwar"

So what, wouldnt you if they did that to Ed Miliband?

Where are you 28420
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 119):
For the first 5 or 6 hours they wouldn't know anything was wrong, especially at night. And beyond that point when they wondered why they hadn't arrived in PEK, what could they do?

What about other F/As? No interaction with the cockpit would seem strange to them. If plane flies straight, no banking those guys would certianly notice something is wrong. Also possible turbulence and no messages for belts, no information messages from the captain...
 
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cougar15
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting Freeman (Reply 100):
Potential targets include Tel Aviv (make it look like an Iranian op so that the rest of the world can justify another war) and Washington D.C. because the American regime (and I'm an American) is the biggest exporter of war the world has ever seen

Now there is a new theory! It was probably those US Boys on board! Just like 9/11 and all we learnt on/in the ´Loose Change' movies how capable they are and we are all just dumb sheep!
Right, on then, I´d better grab another Beer before the evil US operatives fullfill their plans........(forgive the inrony under these sad circumstanes, but... yes, well.....!!)
But hang on, I forgot the previous thread, of course this tripple is now at Diego Garcia!

Can we get back to the known & aviation related known Facts now plse?
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
ComeAndGo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:56 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 63):
Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 111):
I don't think we'll see it in Tel Aviv any time soon, and if any type of unidentified aircraft does go anywhere near Israel then it will be shot down long before it gets close enough to do any damage.

Really ? Even if it had an ELAL livery ? I wouldn't be to sure about Israeli readiness. When Lebanese terrorists used an Iranian sourced anti ship missile to hit an Israeli war ship some ten years ago, guess what, the ship's defensive system was switched off and the missile hit the boat causing massive damage.
 
AR385
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting KIAS (Reply 114):
"Over 90 percent of people who commit suicide have been diagnosed with mental illness."
Link

"More than two-thirds of all suicides are driven by a mentally disordered mind, experts say."
Link

Typically, "rational suicide" is a term used to describe terminally ill people who are seeking a quick resolution to their pain and suffering.
Link

Did you actually read the articles you linked? I suppose you didn´t because I see nothing there that says suicide can´t be a rational process. And just so you know, not all mental illnesses mean people cannot be rational. Since I don´t want to turn this into a suicide debate, I´ll refrain from posting further about this issue in THIS thread, but it´s a good idea to read what you are going to post as a source to make a point.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 117):
If it was suicide, then he knowingly also wanted to take others with him. Why stop at that? Why not also crash into KL? The hijacker took meticulous detail to not get noticed. With such skill, he could have done bigger damage if he is depressed or has mental illness.

Just because you think he would have crashed into KL or it's not a suicide is illogical thinking. There have been a few very reasonable ideas mentioned over and over why a suicidal/homicidal pilot would fly due south toward Antarctica ....

Quoting TheRedBAron (Reply 118):
By now they should have released the pilots, because quite frankly if they were going to commit suicide, the data we have (as scarce as it is) points to something else. Who would fly so many hours to commit suicide?

Quiet the opposite. The data we have, which is scarce, makes pilot suicide the most plausible scenario. Everyone who says suicide doesn't make sense is using illogical reasoning to dismiss it. There is a lot of this going on here ... fascinating when you think about it ...
 
gipperPDX
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:01 pm

Quoting aseem (Reply 120):
To all those suicide theorists. If the Captain were to commit suicide, why does he have go off the radar. He does not even have to go to full cruising height. He can just plunge into the Gulf of Thailand.

Life insurance policies do not pay on suicides. Hide the wreckage / black boxes = no evidence of suicide = beneficiaries paid. That is one of several reasons a suicidal pilot would keep flying and try to hide it.
 
kelebek
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:03 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 119):
For the first 5 or 6 hours they wouldn't know anything was wrong, especially at night. And beyond that point when they wondered why they hadn't arrived in PEK, what could they do?

Don't they have Airshow in the seats?
 
rebr
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:03 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 125):

If it fails to identify itself, yes even if it has an ElAl livery...
 
slvrblt
Posts: 370
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:04 pm

Quoting capri (Reply 121):
how would you know if the plane is not already in Israel? How would we know if Israel is the party that was interested in the "Cargo" in the plane and not Iran? Speculations and theories will never end.

You're right; but the world we live in is, unfortunately, a place now where an event called 9/11 took place. So, get a grip on reality, and the very real possibility that a followup to that horrible event could be in the works. 9/11 rendered what would have been stupid paranoia and mindless speculation to something now not so stupid. What if the plane is in Israel? (where did that come from?) I think what the poster Freeman and I are talking about is another 9/11 style event. And the Israelis aren't going to be the perps.
..everything works out in the end.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:05 pm

While the political divide in Malaysia is bitter and very infected it seems bringing a plane filled with innocents down is a very drastic way to put it into the spotlight. I don't know. Most educated Malays in KL and definately in Penang where the captain comes from tend to side with the opposition while most Malays from kampongs and with government connections (the percentage of Malays working for government owned companies or government itself is very very high) support the government.

With the links KIAS provided it would be very interesting to know if any of the two had some form of recent medical history. the chances of that increases with age I guess but mental illness can affect anyone.

Everyone points to the captain but we know very little about the FO. All we know is that he trained to be a pilot at Langkawi an island the plane almost flew past if we are to believe the pings. Thats the area he would know best from his training (and he is pretty fresh out of training).
The captain was highly respected and a man with experience and skill. The FO wasn't seen in that way. His skill was contested and his promotion was seen as based on other things than merit. We are speaking of two different generation of pilots here, one from the old days where quality trumped race/connections and one from the new days where race/connections is everything.

So while medical issues might have contributed to this, the family of the two is likely to be able to fill the investigators in on that we might have a banal situation that escalates out of control as well.
Something like the two men has an alteration onboard due to extremely different political views (guesses), and with one of them incapacitated the other goes nuts when he realises that he wont fly ever again and since this is Malaysia he might even face the death penalty if the other man is dead. Or if the other man is incapacitated one of the persons flying probably both will never fly commercially again. if flying is your life you might make crazy things. Many similar scenarios can be thought of.

I dont know, but until we hear something that substantiate the fact the captain was in charge of the flight I think we should keep our senses open and see what comes. More things may point towards him but without medical info, without any fact to back things up more than the normal handover that took place I think its too early to determine he flew the plane.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
Backseater
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:05 pm

Journalists: could you please ask investigators about the 01:30+ call at the next daily briefing?

Remember the article in the StraitsTimes first reported on this site by loladaisydukes, Thread #5, Reply 121, posted Sat Mar 8 2014

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SEPANG: A pilot said he established contact with Malaysia Airlines plane MH370 moments before it went missing.
The Boeing 777 captain, who asked to not be named, said he was flying 30 minutes ahead of the missing aircraft, and was asked to use his plane's emergency frequency to contact MH370 by Vietnamese air traffic control officials who wanted to establish its location.
The pilot, whose plane was bound for Narita, Japan, told Malaysia's New Sunday Times: "We managed to establish contact with MH370 just after 1.30am and asked them if they have transferred into Vietnamese airspace.
"The voice on the other side could have been either Captain Zaharie or Fariq, but I was sure it was the co-pilot," he told the newspaper.
MH370 was piloted by Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, 53, and co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid, 27.
"There were a lot of interference... static... but I heard mumbling from the other end," said the B777 captain. "That was the last time we heard from them, as we lost the connection."
Those on the same frequency at the time, including vessels on the waters below, would have heard the exchange, he said.
But he said he did not detect anything unusual during the contact. "If the plane was in trouble, we would have heard the pilot making the Mayday distress call. But I am sure that, like me, no one else up there heard it."
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What I believe is significant is that the call was made not before MH370 went missing as the paper says, but AFTER it went AWOL and headed west.

The report is not from an anonymous tipster, but by the crew of Malaysia KUL->NRT on Mar 7th. Investigators should have been able to easily identify the pilot filing the report.

Can investigators confirm or deny?
 
KIAS
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:25 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:08 pm

Quoting Ryanair01 (Reply 109):
If the above is true, the combination of a captain under huge emotional stress, angry with his country and the seemingly high level of B777 operational knowledge needed to systematically turn the various systems off and vanish at the point of hand over between Malay and Vietnamese air traffic control, makes crew sabotage seem very possible. A politically motivated act highlighting Malaysia's social problems, by a Captain who doesn't feel like they have a whole lot to live for is becoming a tragically compelling line of inquiry.

It would also explain the Malaysian Government's alleged caginess about confirming details. Already the European Union has expressed concerns about the Anwar trial, suggesting it looks to be a political show trial. If the Malaysian Government admit that a Malaysian plane was lost due to something most people see as political detention, analysts believe Anwar would probably win any elections were he not in jail, it would be very hard for the government to survive.

I agree if the above information is indeed true, it makes for an avenue worthy of investigation. Still, what is the motive? How does hijacking and/or intentionally crashing a commercial airliner help his cause?

Quoting Freeman (Reply 100):
The aircraft with it's new livery and transponder will (sooner than later) be utilized in an attack that will rival a 9/11 or any other act of terrorism we've ever witnessed.

How do you expect this will work? Are they going to file a fraudulent flight plan? With whom? Come in with no transponder? How would they avoid primary radar? Fly NOE unnoticed? No scenario seems likely. Such an attempt against the USA or Israel would more than likely be intercepted, and shot down.
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3552
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:09 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 106):
It is such an obvious thing to look for .... And not technically that hard.

The Malaysian investigators don't have a great history so far of looking for "obvious" things in a timely manner - or at least of acknowledging them in public. (Which is, for this little sub-thread, the part we'd be concerned about.) They only acknowledged the SATCOM pings and even the *radar* returns after they were forced to by PR leaks. And only after several days.

We're now only a couple of days past the point when they realized the plane last checked in along one of these two satellite signal arcs. Given the history of this investigation up to this point, I don't expect they'd acknowledge checking on cell phone registrations for at least another day or two, and only then if their hand is forced. And in this case, we're talking about getting that data from multiple different countries, so it may even be longer than that.

The thing is, while it would blow the investigation wide open if they *did* find passenger cell phone registrations in, say, Pakistan, I'm not sure it really tells them anything if they *don't* see that. It's the old "you can't prove a negative" thing. I'm not sure about the culture in Malaysia or China but on the Asian flights I have been on, people really do turn their cell phones off. And those few that were on may not have registered for the reasons you listed. Even under the best circumstances (on the ground), an airplane isn't the greatest environment for cellular signals to penetrate. Lots of metal, wiring and other stuff to interfere.

So even if they come out and say "well, we checked for cell phone signals everywhere in these corridors and found none", that doesn't mean the plane didn't fly there, or that everyone was already dead. Though it may at least suggest that the passengers didn't know anything was wrong, since you'd expect at least a few phones to register somewhere if there were hundreds turned on.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
AR385
Posts: 6935
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:10 pm

Quoting GipperPDX (Reply 128):
Life insurance policies do not pay on suicides.

Not entirely correct. It depends on local law. Some countries allow it, others don´t. I know the US doesn´t but Mexico does. I don´t know about Malaysia. However, the point is moot in regards to life insurance as life insurance for pilots is a whole other type of insurance and has its own special clauses, price, and provisions.
 
k83713
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:38 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:11 pm

Still no. Suicide is too simple explanation in front of very complex arrangements and circumstances. Only slight stress was political leader of the party trial, but then if you're angry at that, you would make a statement to opponent ruling party, not just die secretely in remote location in the airplane with other people. I think he loved flying and wouldn't want to destroy machine as well. Also family, kids...not that type. The story has a different smell to me, tbh.
 
jelliesR
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:46 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:11 pm

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 127):
Everyone who says suicide doesn't make sense is using illogical reasoning to dismiss it.

People want to believe in fairies (and massive criminal or government conspiracies). Suicide in a way that makes the Malaysia government look inept is quite the most logical and simplest explanation at this point, requiring no other unprecedented cover-ups or exceptionally tricky plans. I don't really understand how someone promoting the "heist" scenario or the "repurposing the plane" scenario can not add "... if it is proved that pilot suicide is not what happened" to the end of every post.
 
KIAS
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:25 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:13 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 125):
Even if it had an ELAL livery

Air traffic is not identified by livery.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 126):
Did you actually read the articles you linked? I suppose you didn´t because I see nothing there that says suicide can´t be a rational process. And just so you know, not all mental illnesses mean people cannot be rational. Since I don´t want to turn this into a suicide debate, I´ll refrain from posting further about this issue in THIS thread, but it´s a good idea to read what you are going to post as a source to make a point.

Of course I read them, that's why I posted them to you. I never said "suicide can't be rational" - I posted articles showing that in the vast majority of cases, suicide is a product of mental illness. Here is your quote:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 99):
Suicide is a very rational decision and the thought process leading to it is too.

...which sounds like a blanket statement saying that suicide is always a rational decision. Perhaps I misunderstood your intention.
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
jelliesR
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:46 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:13 pm

Quoting k83713 (Reply 137):
Suicide is too simple explanation

And that is the problem. Some of you don't want a simple explanation because it isn't fun/scary/interesting enough. You want an 8 part HBO special with as twist.
 
nupogodi
Posts: 933
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:58 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:14 pm

Quoting kelebek (Reply 129):
Don't they have Airshow in the seats?

IFE easily disabled from cockpit, along with satphones (if equipped).
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
k83713
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:38 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:15 pm

Quoting jelliesR (Reply 140):

Ok, so then you need to explain his reasons. Why? Just because? As simple as that?
 
 
KIAS
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:25 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:16 pm

Not only does the "plane as weapon" theory seem near-impossible to pull off, it also doesn't explain the myriad ways of acquiring aircraft that would be much easier and low profile that this.
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
DDR
Posts: 1721
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 124):
Now there is a new theory! It was probably those US Boys on board! Just like 9/11 and all we learnt on/in the ´Loose Change' movies how capable they are and we are all just dumb sheep!
Right, on then, I´d better grab another Beer before the evil US operatives fullfill their plans........(forgive the inrony under these sad circumstanes, but... yes, well.....!!)
But hang on, I forgot the previous thread, of course this tripple is now at Diego Garcia!

Can we get back to the known & aviation related known Facts now plse?

A voice of reason! Danke Cougar15. As sad as it is, these poor people are in all probability dead, and have been dead for several days. As a crew member myself (cabin), I hate to see all the pilot suicide comments as well. Please do not judge these two guys without evidence. I sure do not recall everyone immediately blaming the AF A330 pilots of suicide. Have some respect for these guys.
 
HNL
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:51 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting GipperPDX (Reply 128):

Life insurance policies do not pay on suicides.

Yes they do! All the life insurance policies in my family include a 1 year suicide "waiting period" after which it's not a restriction.
HNL - There's no place like it!
 
cabochris
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:17 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:21 pm

Quoting jelliesR (Reply 140):

Murder is less simple
 
capri
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:32 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:21 pm

Quoting slvrblt (Reply 131):
You're right; but the world we live in is, unfortunately, a place now where an event called 9/11 took place. So, get a grip on reality, and the very real possibility that a followup to that horrible event could be in the works. 9/11 rendered what would have been stupid paranoia and mindless speculation to something now not so stupid. What if the plane is in Israel? (where did that come from?) I think what the poster Freeman and I are talking about is another 9/11 style event. And the Israelis aren't going to be the perps.

what I meant is they knew something was up and intercepted it or the cargo or the people in it and ferried it to Israel with their know how so another 9/11 wld not happen
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15680
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:21 pm

Quoting HNL (Reply 147):
Quoting GipperPDX (Reply 128):

Life insurance policies do not pay on suicides.

Yes they do!

Most don't.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Backseater
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:20 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:23 pm

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 144):
did u mean this?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...e-communications-disabled-malaysia

No. Your new article refers to the last message with Malaysia ATC.
The one I am referring to is a call between two Malaysia 777s, maybe 10min after MH370 has diverted from its planned route.
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3660
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30

Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:23 pm

Quoting KIAS (Reply 83):
To fully disable ACARS requires a trip to the E/E bay.

Must ask you out of curiosity, but what would you do in the EE bay to disable ACARS? Were you proposing to pull the COM modules out of the AIMS cabinets? or what. You would really have to know what you were doing, pull out the wrong one and the screens go blank!
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