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imagoagnitio
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:31 am

OOI, is anyone tracking MH6124, 9M-MUA A330F on FR24 at the moment, shows KUL-DWC, yet it's currently over the Black Sea tracking 290, presuming this is a FR24 error.
 
SCQ83
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:36 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 127):
Just because you think he would have crashed into KL or it's not a suicide is illogical thinking. There have been a few very reasonable ideas mentioned over and over why a suicidal/homicidal pilot would fly due south toward Antarctica ....

Quiet the opposite. The data we have, which is scarce, makes pilot suicide the most plausible scenario. Everyone who says suicide doesn't make sense is using illogical reasoning to dismiss it. There is a lot of this going on here ... fascinating when you think about it ...


Absolutely fascinating. The confirmation bias behind some comments that consider impossible of just plain "insane" (as I have read repeatedly), to think this is a suicide is appealing. I assume because a good number of a.net posters are pilots themselves or work in the industry... they do not want to believe this was a suicide. And of course, with so much terrorism this and that and "under attack" information and speculation over the years (specially in some countries), it is more comforting for the mind (and "funnier" to speculate by looking at some of the James Bond theories posted here) to think that some evil-minded terrorists killed +200 people.

Quoting affirmative (Reply 167):
I'm getting fed up with people wasting time trying to get this into another terrorist plot. Sure, if you bought in to the US government propaganda telling you that you are the target because you're the biggest, best and baddest maybe you should start looking into things like GDP and National debt.. If or when the Chinese starts asking for their money back you will know, and there's a possibility that will happen pretty soon.

(Sorry for this OT, I just had to ventilate)

I also find interesting how narrow minded are some comments likely to disregard the suicide. Firstly, by thinking Malaysia as a Western democracy... and the pilot supporting a political party that was just simply defeated (which is far from being the case). Secondly, by thinking MAS as a Western airline. Malaysia Airlines (like Singapore or Emirates) is not just like American or United are to the United States... MH is a prestige project of the Malaysian government... somehow it is part of the government and an obscure incident like this will have direct political involvement. And finally, the PEK flight makes a lot of sense. With more than half of the passengers being Chinese (which is probably the standard for any KUL-PEK flight), that would mean the direct involvement of China pressuring for quick responses from the Malaysian government... which clearly has failed to provide one week after the incident... probably because they just don't like what really happened because of internal politics.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:36 am

If you fly high and depressurize, the masks drop, and the pax and crew go nuts. Seems like you wouldn't want that. Plus the F/A's would get on their bottles, which could last a couple of hours.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:37 am

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 50):

Looks fine on Flight Aware.
 
imagoagnitio
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:42 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 53):

how strange, saw it on smartphone, now this online http://www.flightradar24.com/MAS6124/2e83e3d
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:45 am

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 54):

Pretty weird.
 
bcworld
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:51 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 55):
how strange, saw it on smartphone, now this online http://www.flightradar24.com/MAS6124/2e83e3d

Flight aware is confused. The flight is operating SHJ-AMS.

https://www.google.com/#q=MH6124
 
capt747ret
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:55 am

If 370 had an ELT the force of a land impact would have triggered it. Satellites would have picked it up in a matter of minutes or less and it position would have been known.
Was one onboard? If so, then it probably had a water impact. Being that the ELT would not be accessible to any of the flight crew to disable, we can rule out it being over land.
I really don’t buy the theories that somehow it landed somewhere and hidden. You just don’t land a 777 at some “abandoned” WWII airfield or anywhere else without at least a 6,000 ft hard surface runway and definitely not on some road or highway. Any old abandoned airport would not have an old hanger large enough to accommodate a 777.
I don’t care how “good” the pilot is. Landing at night or even in the early morning, flying a visual approach to a runway that you never landed at, having to nail it with little or no margin of error then make a max effort stop would be very challenging to most any airline pilot.
The northern arc, by many counts, goes right thru some rather primitive countries. Still many of these countries do have radar and an air traffic system even if rudimentary.
At a non-regular serviced airport the arrival of a 777 would be BIG talk, especially if it just suddenly showed up! The word would spread fast.
You would be very hard pressed to find an abandoned airport with a runway that could accommodate an aircraft the size of the 777. You can rule out any type of unimproved or steel mat facility.
As far as I know the largest commercial aircraft to land on steel mats was a Seaboard World DC-8-63CF at a Russian air base in the Kuril Islands in about 1969. BTW, it tore up the mats!
I was told by the Captain that the look on the Russian faces when they opened the door and saw 219 G I’s with weapons was priceless!
The 777 is much bigger and heaver.
A few points:
Flying on one engine will greatly reduce your range as discussed earlier by another. The airframe drag goes up rather quickly. Additionally, on one engine you can’t go as high causing a lot higher full burn due to denser air at a lower altitude.
The altitude gyrations between cruise, FL 450 and FL 230 costs a lot of fuel. If he was flying at FL 350 then he was operating at his best fuel burn. At FL 295 is would not be as economical causing increased burn and reduced range.
Going to FL 450 would also cause a lot higher fuel burn. You would be flying tight into the coffin corner. It is possible that the perpetrator did this then depressurize the cabin. This would cause the oxygen masks to deploy, either manually by him or automatically by the nature of the system. He would be on his mask which is a different system then the pax and having turned off the other pilot’s oxygen he would have enough to outlast the pax.
The pax oxy system is of limited supply with enough to get the A/C down to a breathable altitude. If he stayed at this high altitude for a few minutes, the pax would pass out and then expire. At these higher altitudes useful consciousness in measured in a few seconds. He then could bring the A/C down and repressurize and now he would be the only one onboard alive.
If he flew at a low altitude to avoid the radar his fuel burn would go thru the roof! His range would be cut hugely. There would not be pings lasting as long as they did.
Lastly for tonight, it may be the co-pilot and not the Captain. You just never know about people.
 
PHX Flyer
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:58 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 39):
Well the Israelis seem to think it's intact, and that Iran is somehow involved:

Well, I think he Israelis are right about the pilots' profiles ... while I agree that Captain Shah's FS needed to be examined, I also expect that no incriminating evidence will be found.

On the other hand, it does not make sense at all for the Iranians to get involved in a heist like this at a time, where they are trying to rekindle their relationship with the US. In all earnest, what would tehy want with it? Obviously they cannot use it for air transport, and they can't use it for spare parts, because their ain't not other triple sevens in Iran. And I doubt MH370 was hauling a large chunk of weapons-grade uranium or plutonium from Malaysia to China ...
"Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes forever skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." -Leonardo Da Vinci
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:02 am

Quoting bcworld (Reply 56):

I didn't post that. Neither FA or FR24 is correct, it seems.
 
ikramerica
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:13 am

Quoting PHX Flyer (Reply 58):

Iran Air is simply trying to modernize their fleet by working around the embargo.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
StaticShock
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:16 am

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 13):
While we would like to believe the a/c landed safely somewhere, that seems unlikely to have happened unobserved.

Out of anything in the consistently brilliant and much needed summary posts from rcair1- I hope they read and understand this point. Still unsure why a 777 landing somewhere in secret is more likely to people than the wreckage not yet being discovered due to a relatively small team searching thousands of miles of ocean is confusing to me. I suppose a tragic accident where a plane crashes into the sea just isn't "sexy" enough for some people and their need for drama.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:20 am

Quoting edmountain (Reply 42):
That's actually a fascinating idea and would reconcile several inconsistencies in other theories. Hard to prove though without finding the plane

It is. The only difficulty I have is the turning off of the transponder etc leading up to this point. I suppose the hijacker could be pointing a gun at his head making demands, but unless they were experienced pilots themselves, would they really know that the pilots were really doing what they asked in pushing a whole bunch of buttons to get deep in the FMS to turn off the ACARS transmissions and one or the other of them not be able to squawk a quick 7500 while he was at it?

A thought in relation to hijackers getting through the door in the first place. Where is the forward washroom in relation to the cockpit door on the MH 77E? Could someone discreetly take a video of an F/A or someone punching in the code on their phone and bingo, they have access?
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
Airplanebrain
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:41 am

Could the pilot load an alternate flight number into the transponder system while he was over water and away from radar to simulate another airplane? Then he could overfly India with impunity. Perhaps even make it look like he was a cargo flight or private jet? I remember Air Force One doing this a few years ago.
 
chrcaremanav
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:22 am

Howdy! Iran wanting an aircraft like the 777, They do not need to steal one, They are not a poor country, so if They want some 777, They call Boeing and can order quite and quite of few of Them or buy some used one available or borough some from Companies. So it makes no sense. We all have to wait what will happen and if one day They can recover the aircraft, if They can not We will never know, but we have to stay cautiously positive though. We have to let the Experts working around the clock to solve that mystery or/and tragedy. As a I am a Christian, I am doing some prayers, because I am thinking about the Families anguish and pains and pangs and afflictions of the Flight Crew and Passengers, We should All think about Them. They are very strong I can tell You, because They are still hoping but being realistic, even though some anger and discouragement, I am sure They have very good People helping Them. We have to think also of the Search and Rescue Teams and Their Families too, They are passing some rough time too. I will wait for the outcome and not rely on conspiracies and rumors, but to stay the two feet on the ground and be a Realist. Their is some explanations to this mystery, it will come in due time even if it come in years to come. Take good care All of You and Have a Nice day with Serenity.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:23 am

Quoting StaticShock (Reply 61):
Still unsure why a 777 landing somewhere in secret is more likely to people than the wreckage not yet being discovered due to a relatively small team searching thousands of miles of ocean is confusing to me. I suppose a tragic accident where a plane crashes into the sea just isn't "sexy" enough for some people and their need for drama.

I wish we could get away from the condescending drivel on these threads. If you think the pilot is involved, you're a moron. If you ignore what the authorities are saying about it being a deliberate action, then you are a ignorant. If you think it landed in [insert your choice of three letter code here] you are a drama queen.

Do you need to put people who think differently than you into small boxes? Perhaps it's not "drama" but just a real concern for what may have happened?

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
LandSweetLand
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:26 am

Quoting Capt747Ret (Reply 57):
I really don’t buy the theories that somehow it landed somewhere and hidden. You just don’t land a 777 at some “abandoned” WWII airfield or anywhere else without at least a 6,000 ft hard surface runway and definitely not on some road or highway. Any old abandoned airport would not have an old hanger large enough to accommodate a 777.
I don’t care how “good” the pilot is. Landing at night or even in the early morning, flying a visual approach to a runway that you never landed at, having to nail it with little or no margin of error then make a max effort stop would be very challenging to most any airline pilot.

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days, but is a dedicated runway actually necessary (as opposed to just a hard flat 1-2km stretch of land)? (I've been following the threads but haven't seen this addressed. Apologies if it has).

[Edited 2014-03-16 23:27:04]
 
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seahawk
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:27 am

There are probably quite a few old Soviet airbases near the end of the northern route, which offer a runway suitable for a 777 and are mostly abandoned. If the plane landed somewhere it surely was planed by an organisation with some decent resources. I am sure they could even organize a fuel truck and fly the plane off from there. It took nearly a week before the search even looked into that areas. A week is a long time.

The Southern route on the other had is at least partly covered by Australian OTOH radars.

[Edited 2014-03-16 23:38:12]
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:27 am

Quoting jelliesR (Reply 25):
The SMH reports now that he did some "terrain following" (low altitude flying over land) so maybe he was fully aware of the risks and was trying to avoid triggering radar.

I was in the camp that the pilot should get the benefit of the doubt and mechanical hypotheses come first. After 7 days with no better explanations and a lot of flags from the life of the pilot in command it is inevitable to come round to a belief he is likely the culprit of course it is far from proven but it seems far and away the most straightforward explanation.

Dont buy it for a second! are you kidding? terrain following in the middle of the night on a heavy plane , the triple 7 is a great aircraft but its no Panavia Tornado.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 26):
U know thats a distinct possibility and I too thought of a similar scenario. Captain Shah was so experienced he might have tried to THWART an attempted hijacking by programming a route far away from land and trying to disable the attackers via the 45k FL and de-pressurization. Maybe he didn't get his mask on time and it backfired. I mean if you're an experienced pilot and you're trying to thwart someone in the cockpit from a Malaysian 9-11 what else do you do? Go high and go out to sea.

He might have been a hero preventing a real attack, we may never know.

Quoting hivue (Reply 38):
Confusing and confounding confabulation has characterized this whole conundrum.  

Indeed ! LOL

Quoting JOshu (Reply 40):
The "Malaysian Insider" is reported that the plane flew as low as "1,500 feet" to avoid radar.

Complete nonsense, at night flying that low? They must think the Captain is Lando Carlisian.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 51):
I also find interesting how narrow minded are some comments likely to disregard the suicide.

I also find those who blame the captain narrow minded, there were another 200+ persons on that plane.

Quoting PHX Flyer (Reply 58):
Well, I think he Israelis are right about the pilots' profiles ... while I agree that Captain Shah's FS needed to be examined, I also expect that no incriminating evidence will be found.

Being a data recovery expert myself, they have had a week to check his computer flight sim and data, if they had something solid, they would have said so by now and avoid the PR disaster ...

We are still on square one...
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
NAV30
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:32 am

A distinguished aviation writer, Geoffrey Thomas, just 'unloaded' on the Malaysian authorities, whom he accuses of wasting a week investigating the wrong area, despite available evidence that the aeroplane changed course and headed well to the west:-

"GEOFFREY THOMAS: Look, unfortunately we have not been told by the Malaysians in a timely fashion about the shutting off of the ACARS (Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System), the shutting off of the transponder, the plane going to the west.

Millions of dollars has been wasted, days have been wasted searching in the wrong area. I think this is, without doubt, one of the most botched aircraft investigations in modern history."


http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2014/s3964757.htm
 
RussianJet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:33 am

I don't like the way that the woman on the news (UK, ITV Channel) just now said that the captain was "a self-confessed aviation geek" in such a clearly disparaging tone. What's wrong with that??
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seahawk
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:34 am

Quoting TheRedBAron (Reply 68):
Complete nonsense, at night flying that low? They must think the Captain is Lando Carlisian.

Why not. The plane still has GPS and the pilot could have easily prepared a safe path long before the flight. You could fly the route in a sim as much as you like, even getting the timing good enough to do it in the dark.
 
spacecadet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:36 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 62):
The only difficulty I have is the turning off of the transponder etc leading up to this point.

Not sure what you're including in your "etc" (it's kind of like Seinfeld's "yadda yadda yadda") but there are a whole bunch of things about that theory that don't make sense. From disabling ACARS to not notifying ATC to then not squawking 7500 to then disabling the transponder and then comms, all while still having time to apparently reprogram the FMS. Then, he didn't "fly out to sea", he flew back over Malaysia. If he was trying to protect civilians on the ground, he didn't do a very good job of it - it was only luck that the hijackers he was protecting everyone against didn't just nosedive into a populated area.

Obviously no theory right now seems to fully make sense given our large gaps in knowledge, but some make less sense than others. The "he wasn't committing suicide, he was protecting everybody!" theory is a nice fantasy, but it fits even the facts we do have about as well as Egypt's interpretation of Egyptair Flight 990. It's a feel-good theory, but there's nothing to back it up.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:37 am

Going back to rcairs' Sanity Check:

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 13):
It seems very unlikely a fire could be intense enough to disable the crew, but then the a/c would survive and fly for 7+ hours.

At the risk of disrupting the group think... on what basis was fire dismissed again?

Turn back towards Malaysia... maybe they started on that course as soon as trouble became obvious, since they were over water at the time.

Failure to declare emergency... fire in the cockpit of a 777 can occur very suddenly (see Cairo incident) and human self-preservation instincts may temporarily override the need to communicate. (extinguish, aviate, navigate, communicate)

Erratic trajectory and altitude... maybe fighting a cockpit avionics fire would cause the cockpit crew to worry about fighting the fire before aviating. (again: extinguish, aviate, navigate, communicate) Airliners are pretty darn stable flying machines so even without anyone at the controls there would be no crash right away.

Systems disconnected left and right... how do you fight an electrical fire?

Turns showing human intervention... well, yes, if the crew fought the fire and barely won before the aircraft became unworthy of continued flight, you could very well imagine that they would indeed try to maneuver.

Inexplicable trajectory... it's pitch dark on a moonless night over the ocean (the moon set around the same time as the loss of contact). The aircraft's systems may have been so crippled or disabled as to make navigation near impossible.

Waypoints... the sky is full of waypoints. If it hadn't been IGREX and GIVAL it might have been some others. Connecting those dots is not necessarily an indication of a coherent flight plan.

Lack of military radar tracks... maybe it was at a lower altitude over the ocean most of the time.

Lack of debris... the ocean is big.

I know, I'm just speculating like everyone else, but frankly some of the most popular scenarios out there (hijack, heist, suicide) are barely any less contrived than what I am describing here.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:37 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 70):
I don't like the way that the woman on the news (UK, ITV Channel) just now said that the captain was "a self-confessed aviation geek" in such a clearly disparaging tone. What's wrong with that??

Aviation geek? That ain't so bad. Try telling someone you're a model railroader. You'll be lucky to ever date again.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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Finn350
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:45 am

Let's assume that the disappearance of the MH 370 was caused by a suicidal pilot who wanted to cover all his tracks and the plane never to be found.

The pilot might have crafted a plan to crash or ditch the plane into the deep parts of the Indian Ocean. However, his plan would be ruined if the ELT were to be activated in the crash or ditching due to the G-forces.

AFAIK, the ELT cannot be de-activated from the cockpit; the ELT switch has only ON, AUTO and TEST positions.

If the pilot wanted to be sure that the ELT (or neither of the ELTs, if there were one both on the upper and lower side of the fuselage) is not activated, could he de-activate them physically? After all, he has several hours time and it is very possible he has killed all the others by depressuring the plane? Or is it very unlikely for an ELT to be activated in a crash or ditching into the water?
 
imagoagnitio
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:49 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 55):

Now it has changed Squawk code to 1000

is that normal passing through German airspace
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:05 am

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/po...airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68

How close would both aircraft need to be ...to be viewed as one object on the primary radar.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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seahawk
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:07 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 73):
The aircraft's systems may have been so crippled or disabled as to make navigation near impossible.

I guess in those hours they flew on somebody would have had the idea to use the GPS of one of the mobile phones to get a rudimentary position fix.
 
 
372375
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:11 am

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 76):
Now it has changed Squawk code to 1000

is that normal passing through German airspace

This is just a regular scheduled Cargo flight. Also both Germany and The Netherlands maintain 24/7 Quick Reaction Alert aircraft. They've been scrambled a few times in recent years mostly because of unidentified Russian bombers flying over the north sea.
 
speedbird128
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:23 am

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 76):
is that normal passing through German airspace

Yes, and not only in Germany. #1000 is our Mode-A code we use for Mode-S correlation. Due to the vast number of aircraft, we were running out of squawk codes, and ORCAM/CCAMS allocation could only help so much, so what we did was use #1000, and then use the Mode-S flightID paramater to correlate the target to our flightplan data.

This solves the problem of using individual sqauwk codes, and having to wait a certain amount of time before being able to use them again
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k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:36 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 62):
Could someone discreetly take a video of an F/A or someone punching in the code on their phone and bingo, they have access?

What I heard previously couple of threads ago, apparently you need confirmation from inside cockpit after the code is correct. So it had to be F/A requesting to enter, otherwise cockpit wouldn't allow it..unless for some reason they allowed.

[Edited 2014-03-17 00:39:01]
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:39 am

Gents, she is either hidden inside a hanger, or at the bottom of a sea that can reach depths of of to 20,000 feet, which if it is that deep, we've surpassed the range to hear the black box pinging by two miles. With all the resources contributing to the search, and no sign of anything, I'm starting to accept the idea we will never find the aircraft.
 
Unflug
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:41 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 73):
I know, I'm just speculating like everyone else, but frankly some of the most popular scenarios out there (hijack, heist, suicide) are barely any less contrived than what I am describing here.

To be honest, I'd rather buy your theory than many of the others floating around. While the facts known so far do point to deliberate action by someone there is no proof and other explanations (like yours) are possible.
 
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macsog6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:42 am

Quoting davidzill (Reply 83):
I'm starting to accept the idea we will never find the aircraft.

Certainly would not be the first time. I think this will be an on-going mystery for a very long time.
Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
 
k83713
Posts: 160
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:50 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 73):

So why at the point of ATC transfer? "All right, good night" and then the fire starts? Strange things happen in life, of course, but I would not be convinced having no debris not near and not faraway...a lot of human involvement is seen here, the chance of such a perfect storm occurrence because of technics behavior is much lower...

[Edited 2014-03-17 00:53:47]

[Edited 2014-03-17 01:04:10]
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:50 am

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 77):

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/po...airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68

How close would both aircraft need to be ...to be viewed as one object on the primary radar.

That all sounds pretty good to me. Would explain a lot of the previously unexplainable movements.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:01 am

Quoting airplanebrain (Reply 63):

Could the pilot load an alternate flight number into the transponder system while he was over water and away from radar to simulate another airplane? Then he could overfly India with impunity. Perhaps even make it look like he was a cargo flight or private jet? I remember Air Force One doing this a few years ago.

They can certainly load another Mode A code, but they can't make the plane look different. Also, who are you fooling? Two different returns with the same code would look a mite weird. Also, Mode S codes are hardwired into the plane.

Quoting chrcaremanav (Reply 64):
Howdy! Iran wanting an aircraft like the 777, They do not need to steal one, They are not a poor country, so if They want some 777, They call Boeing and can order quite and quite of few of Them or buy some used one available or borough some from Companies. So it makes no sense.

Iran can most definitely not buy a US aircraft due to sanctions. Not sure they can buy a a used one but in any case they wouldn't get support on it.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 70):
I don't like the way that the woman on the news (UK, ITV Channel) just now said that the captain was "a self-confessed aviation geek" in such a clearly disparaging tone. What's wrong with that??

This is what "normal" because people are suspicious and fearful of "different".

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 74):
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 70):
I don't like the way that the woman on the news (UK, ITV Channel) just now said that the captain was "a self-confessed aviation geek" in such a clearly disparaging tone. What's wrong with that??

Aviation geek? That ain't so bad. Try telling someone you're a model railroader. You'll be lucky to ever date again.


  

I'm over it though. If you think I'm weird because I don't like sports and sitting at the pub all night, every night, so be it.

[Edited 2014-03-17 01:09:43]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:13 am

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 87):

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 77):

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/po...airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68

How close would both aircraft need to be ...to be viewed as one object on the primary radar.

That all sounds pretty good to me. Would explain a lot of the previously unexplainable movements.

The problem with this theory is that both transponders have to be on for TCAS to work. However Mr. Ledgerwood seems to think that if MH370 turns off its transponder SQ68 will not see it (correct) but MH370 will still see SQ68 (incorrect). For TCAS, transponders perform a handshake of sorts.

This does not preclude MH370 following visually and listening in on radio, but things become harder.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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haynflyer
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:18 am

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 77):

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/po...airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68

How close would both aircraft need to be ...to be viewed as one object on the primary radar.

In an earlier post of this theory, the author (I believe) pointed out that SQ68 was at 30,000 ft and MH370 was at 29,500. Not sure why that was taken out or if it was a reply by another poster. If true, that would imply that 500 feet is sufficient and truly spooky.

I'm of the feeling that the A/C flew over India shadowing SQ then took a dive into the ocean off the east coast of India in revenge for the death of Osama Bin Laden, whose birthday was March 10th. OSB is supposedly buried at sea somewhere in that area.

Yea, now you've heard all the hairbrained conspiracy theories! Makes more sense than aliens and meteorites!
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln
 
EC135
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:19 am

I my opinion the disappearance of MH370 is not just some kind suicide by one of the pilots... it is a very very well planned
action by a group of people (not just one or two in the cockpit). The fact that this has happened just around the handover
from Malaysia to Vietnam ATC is exactly the ideal moment to win time for disappearing, to switch off Transponder and
ACARS and reprogramming the FMC is nothing you have to do in case of suicide... this all is - as I said - all a very very
well planned action. The fact that it happened at night under the cover of darkness and the chosen airliner is a 777
(long range) is also planned month or years before. Terrorists in the 21 century do not react from one day to the next. If it
is correct what was mentioned above, that the climb to FL450 was to eliminate the PAX, this would also fit into the picture
of being a well planned terrorist act - just think the are landing on a remote field somewhere in Northern Pakistan for
example - what should they do with 239 Pax walking down the stairs? The risk being detected is much to high. I am pretty
sure they found a possibility to avoide radar or flying over countries not looking that closely to its radar at 3 a.m. and they
safely landed on a field that has being well prepared for the arrival prior to this event - now getting a new ID, maybe new
paint-scheme, e.g. and being converted to a dirty bomb for some upcomming events like the FIFA world championships e.g.
Don't forget - since Osama bin Laden has been killed by the U.S. a lot of people have a lot of anger, they are terrorists but
they are not silly...
 
YokoTsuno
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:20 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 70):
I don't like the way that the woman on the news (UK, ITV Channel) just now said that the captain was "a self-confessed aviation geek" in such a clearly disparaging tone. What's wrong with that??

Nothing.

The reason I believe is the impression the media creates that pilots and tech people in general are the smooth, well-dressed, well spoken professional. In case of an event like MH370 a sizeable part of society is 'surprised', to put it gently to see the behaviour of a real average pilot.

It contradicts their impression and the link with terms like 'asocial, weird, and mentally disturbed' behaviour is then just a small step, unfortunately.
 
mika
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:20 am

Quote:
because I don't like sports and sitting at the pub all night, every night, so be it

I like sitting at the pub AND i'm an aviation geek (enthusiast!)  


Combining the two is even better..
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:22 am

Quoting mika (Reply 93):
Quote:
because I don't like sports and sitting at the pub all night, every night, so be it

I like sitting at the pub AND i'm an aviation geek (enthusiast!)  


Combining the two is even better..

Hey, I'm not judging! 
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Kiqaboy
Posts: 117
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:43 am

In case the MH 370 flew under the shadow of SIA 68, and could not use his TCAS on board! He might have used one of these http://images.ecwid.com/images/1553636/59159611.jpg and a laptop with a GPS and so case solved?
once upone time
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4325
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:43 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 89):

The problem with this theory is that both transponders have to be on for TCAS to work. However Mr. Ledgerwood seems to think that if MH370 turns off its transponder SQ68 will not see it (correct) but MH370 will still see SQ68 (incorrect). For TCAS, transponders perform a handshake of sorts.

Interesting. That does poke holes in the theory. Could they have turned it on a few quick isolated times to gauge the position of SQ68? Could these also be the blips they were discovered on radar?
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:46 am

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 87):

That all sounds pretty good to me. Would explain a lot of the previously unexplainable movements.

Exactly...hence how near one needs to shadow a widebody not to be noticed by primary radar.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 89):

This does not preclude MH370 following visually and listening in on radio, but things become harder.
Quoting haynflyer (Reply 90):
I'm of the feeling that the A/C flew over India shadowing SQ then took a dive into the ocean off the east coast of India

why go west then east.

what was the route of SQ......maybe they need to check the point of seperation.

Quoting EC135 (Reply 91):
all a very very
well planned action

True.....
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:48 am

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 96):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 89):

The problem with this theory is that both transponders have to be on for TCAS to work. However Mr. Ledgerwood seems to think that if MH370 turns off its transponder SQ68 will not see it (correct) but MH370 will still see SQ68 (incorrect). For TCAS, transponders perform a handshake of sorts.

Interesting. That does poke holes in the theory. Could they have turned it on a few quick isolated times to gauge the position of SQ68? Could these also be the blips they were discovered on radar?

Nah, I think that makes things too complex. Kigaboy's option is better.

Quoting Kiqaboy (Reply 95):

In case the MH 370 flew under the shadow of SIA 68, and could not use his TCAS on board! He might have used one of these http://images.ecwid.com/images/1553636/59159611.jpg and a laptop with a GPS and so case solved?

Fair point.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:48 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 60):
Iran Air is simply trying to modernize their fleet by working around the embargo.

...didn't/don't they wet-lease Airbus 320, or am I completely wrong?

In the past (say 2004) they have wet-leased 742, ex-Lufthansa aircraft.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down

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