New Zealand Aviation Part 141

777ER · Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:52 am

Does anyone know why an NZ 763 was parked at WLGs international terminal on March 20th at 6.45am? I was departing on VA65, noticed an NZ winglet on push back and during take off noticed it was a 763.

Had a nice flight on ZK-SUH (BNE-AKL) today. While boarding at BNE I was allowed to visit the flight deck. Apparantly -SUH has been purchased by the aircraft's engines maker, with the engines only being saved, while the other 744 will leave for Alice Springs to be broken up. This info came from the pilots. Several crew on the flight said they will certainly miss the 744 fleet as its their favourite to work on - way better then the 777s. The 744 just has its unique feeling to it. The flight left around 40mins late due to issues with loading a container. You could hear (I was on the top deck) the ground crew trying to get the container on board as there was a fair bit of banging going on. The ground crew apparently gave up and removed the container for another flight

nascarnut · Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:07 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 100):
Does anyone know why an NZ 763 was parked at WLGs international terminal on March 20th at 6.45am? I was departing on VA65, noticed an NZ winglet on push back and during take off noticed it was a 763.

It was a PER-CHC flight that diverted in WLG for fuel due to CHC fog

zkncj · Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:59 pm

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 97):
It seems bizarre that the domestic facilities will be on the south side of the new terminal, furthest from the new runway which is domestic-oriented. Good to see they might have a single, coherent design for the structure though, rather than the hodge podge mess they have now.

If you read though the pdf that AIAL put it explaining it all, it mentions the reason being in as the domesitc flights will keep using the southern runway, helps reduce flight time etc. While the new Northern Runway will be upgraded so it can take 787/777s.

ZK-NBT · Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:31 am

So if the Domestic terminal is going on the Southern side does that mean the existing pier A of International? While maybe Pier B will be expanded for International?

Quoting 777ER (Reply 100):
Had a nice flight on ZK-SUH (BNE-AKL) today. While boarding at BNE I was allowed to visit the flight deck. Apparantly -SUH has been purchased by the aircraft's engines maker, with the engines only being saved, while the other 744 will leave for Alice Springs to be broken up

I'd have thought it was SUH to be broken up as you say with NBV picked up by some airline somewhere, it's only 15 years old while SUH is 23.

Zkpilot · Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:44 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 103):
So if the Domestic terminal is going on the Southern side does that mean the existing pier A of International? While maybe Pier B will be expanded for International?

No a new pier will be built at the Eastern end of the Intl terminal (about where the EK check in counters are currently). The plan shows the current main pier being extended in a Y shape to the West parallel with the A380 pier.

NZ107 · Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:51 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 100):
Had a nice flight on ZK-SUH (BNE-AKL) today

Guess I caught your landing then Jase

Air New Zealand Boeing 747-400

NZ1 · Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:24 am

OKC will arrive back in AKL ex maintenance at Xiamen early next Sunday morning around 3am (6th Apr). Normally not such a big deal, except this B772 is the first widebody to be repainted into the new fern livery - carried out whilst in China. Might be an opportunity to take some snaps during the day as the aircraft isn't scheduled to fly until Monday.

NZ1

NZ107 · Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:30 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 106):
OKC will arrive back in AKL ex maintenance at Xiamen early next Sunday morning around 3am

3am!! Who comes up with these times!?

Yeah, hopefully they put it in a decent position down at the jet base..

Cheers

xiaotung · Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:35 am

http://www.3news.co.nz/Direct-flight...1607/articleID/336784/Default.aspx

No one has picked up on this it seems. John Key has met with China Eastern about Christchurch to Shanghai direct flights. Can't really see that happen but obviously China Eastern is considering New Zealand. Perhaps AKL is on the cards?

ZKOJH · Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:40 pm

Well maybe AKL was to expensive - ? Seems CHC want both CZ and China Eastern now WOW! lets hope something comes soon.

NZ107 · Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:47 pm

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 108):

Can an A332 make it direct from PVG?

ZKSUJ · Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:47 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 105):

Yea saw her coming in too as we were taxiing out, good to see both birds at the terminal together.

sunrisevalley · Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:54 pm

[quote=NZ107,reply=110]Can an A332 make it direct from PVG?

Probably. The MTOW version would make it easier for some than for others.

777ER · Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:18 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 103):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 100):Had a nice flight on ZK-SUH (BNE-AKL) today. While boarding at BNE I was allowed to visit the flight deck. Apparantly -SUH has been purchased by the aircraft's engines maker, with the engines only being saved, while the other 744 will leave for Alice Springs to be broken up
I'd have thought it was SUH to be broken up as you say with NBV picked up by some airline somewhere, it's only 15 years old while SUH is 23.

According to the pilots both airframes will be at their max before needing another heavy service.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 105):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 100):Had a nice flight on ZK-SUH (BNE-AKL) today
Guess I caught your landing then Jase

Sweet! I saw a person standing at the observation point just before the runway with a long range type camera. I was filming the landing. Where abouts were you standing Nick? Noticed an HA 763 tail hanging out the ANZES hanger

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 111):
Yea saw her coming in too as we were taxiing out, good to see both birds at the terminal together.

Where you flying JQ? Anyone know where -NBV was operating to? -SUH was heading to SFO that night. One of the end gates where the LAX/SFO/YVR flights depart from is a dual bridge gate for the A380

PA515 · Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:18 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 113):
Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 111):
Yea saw her coming in too as we were taxiing out, good to see both birds at the terminal together.

Where you flying JQ?

ZKSUJ was probably in the front seat of a Q300.

PA515

coolian2 · Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:20 am

Speaking of the AKL expansion, is that magnificent (albeit a tad poxy) display of the airport's plans still on display behind the escalators in the international terminal?

ZK-NBT · Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:28 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 113):

Where you flying JQ? Anyone know where -NBV was operating to? -SUH was heading to SFO that night.

Looking at FR24 NBV did SFO 29/3 and subsequently delayed NZ7 until 2315 ETA AKL 31/3. SUH did SFO 30/3.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 113):
According to the pilots both airframes will be at their max before needing another heavy service.

I'm no expert but NBV certainly won't be at 15.5 years old, even SUH at 23.5 years could fly some more, but i'm not sure anyone will want a 744 that age, even NBV I guess could get scrapped if no one wanted it.

777ER · Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:20 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 116):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 113):According to the pilots both airframes will be at their max before needing another heavy service.I'm no expert but NBV certainly won't be at 15.5 years old, even SUH at 23.5 years could fly some more, but i'm not sure anyone will want a 744 that age, even NBV I guess could get scrapped if no one wanted it.

-SUH has apparently been purchased by the engine makers with only the engines being saved and will leave the fleet last. I can't find the list supplied by NZ1 with the retirement schedule so hopefully he can confirm when its leaving. Must have been a very excellent purchase price to justify flying the frame to the new owners local airport and scrap the frame but keep the engines. IIRC it was ATL its heading to

NZ107 · Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:52 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 113):
Sweet! I saw a person standing at the observation point just before the runway with a long range type camera. I was filming the landing. Where abouts were you standing Nick? Noticed an HA 763 tail hanging out the ANZES hanger

I was on the bridge. Yeah there was a HA 763 at the jet base but the light wasn't great around your arrival so I didn't bother shooting it.

NZ107 · Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:41 am

Rollout of ZK-NZC(?)

http://kpae.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/paine-field-march-30.html

[Edited 2014-03-31 03:43:08]

[Edited 2014-03-31 03:43:35]

zkojq · Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:54 am

Quoting SelandiaBaru (Reply 68):
NZ acknowledged that by suggesting the 772 would go on it when it arrived but decided against it when the time came, favouring China directly.

The 777-200ERs did operate the route for a while. I flew a couple of legs between SIN and AKL in them during 2006. Pity they cancelled it. I'm very glad they'll be returning.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Je89 W.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 119):

I assume that is it getting put into the paint hangar. Matt Cawby tweeted about that only a few hours ago. From memory, I think NZ's first 787 will be painted black.
https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/450515322299109376

NZ107 · Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:01 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 120):

I assume that is it getting put into the paint hangar. Matt Cawby tweeted about that only a few hours ago. From memory, I think NZ's first 787 will be painted black.

Sure is.

Kiwirob · Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:05 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 94):
I saw them say that domestic will move within 5 years and that the rest will be done I think by 2030.

the plan is to start now, phase 1 will be completed by 2019, then additional capacity will be added as passanger numbers grow.

I'll be super impressed if it ever ends up looking like this.

Unclekoru · Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:31 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 120):
Quoting SelandiaBaru (Reply 68):
NZ acknowledged that by suggesting the 772 would go on it when it arrived but decided against it when the time came, favouring China directly.

The 777-200ERs did operate the route for a while. I flew a couple of legs between SIN and AKL in them during 2006. Pity they cancelled it. I'm very glad they'll be returning.

View Large View Medium

Photo © Je89 W.

If memory serves me correctly, it was announced that the SIN route would cease a couple of months after the 772 was introduced to the route.

Motorhussy · Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:21 pm

A little bit of Aviation History, it was on this day, 1 April, in 1965 that TEAL became Air New Zealand.

On the Auckland International Airport of the Future plan, it's good that they're intending on becoming a hub between Asia and South America. And currently the second biggest international airport in Oceania - did not know that.

mariner · Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:33 pm

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 124):
On the Auckland International Airport of the Future plan, it's good that they're intending on becoming a hub between Asia and South America

I guess they need a few more flights to South America before that can happen, and a few more destinations there.

I assume Air NZ will eventually bite the bullet, and I'll be very interested to see what they come up with.

mariner

NZ107 · Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:40 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 125):
I guess they need a few more flights to South America before that can happen, and a few more destinations there.

I assume Air NZ will eventually bite the bullet, and I'll be very interested to see what they come up with.

Well OW have a monopoly on Australasia to Latin America starting tomorrow as today marks the last AR A342 flight to SYD.. I hope someone can start a route to challenge them.

aerokiwi · Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:32 am

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 124):
On the Auckland International Airport of the Future plan, it's good that they're intending on becoming a hub between Asia and South America. And currently the second biggest international airport in Oceania - did not know that.

How do they measure that? They claim "second busiest" so I assume that means aircraft movements. It's about even on international pax with Melbourne, which is growing like crazy. But overall, it's total pax numbers are less than half. So it's a funny measure that across all metrics is likely to be usurped in the next few years. And given AIAL's limp long-terminess and history of non-delivery, you gotta wonder.

PA515 · Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:48 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 119):
Rollout of ZK-NZC(?)

That's ZK-NZE. NZF and NZG follow in Sep and Oct 2014 with NZC and NZD in Sep and Oct 2015. Boeing shouldn't need over a year to prepare NZC and NZD for pax use, so maybe Air NZ doesn't want them earlier.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 126):
Well OW have a monopoly on Australasia to Latin America starting tomorrow as today marks the last AR A342 flight to SYD.. I hope someone can start a route to challenge them.

Indeed. Know someone going to the Soccer World Cup via LAX on NZ/UA "because it was cheaper".Money to be made if suitable connections can be organised.

PA515

NZ107 · Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:36 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 128):
That's ZK-NZE. NZF and NZG follow in Sep and Oct 2014 with NZC and NZD in Sep and Oct 2015. Boeing shouldn't need over a year to prepare NZC and NZD for pax use, so maybe Air NZ doesn't want them earlier.

Right, thanks for the reminder.. I forgot that NZA and NZB weren't to be used for the 789s.

keen2fly · Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:55 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 119):
Rollout of ZK-NZC(?)

Must say that photo makes me very glad indeed that they changed the livery from an all white fuselage. Though the new livery looks very rushed on close inspection, it is starting to grow on me a little.

PA515 · Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:38 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 128):
NZC and NZD in Sep and Oct 2015.

mrcaviation 4th January 2014 had delivery of NZC Jul 2015 and NZD Aug 2015, while I had Sep 2015 and Oct 2015 from another source. Does anyone know which is correct. Thanks.

PA515

NZ107 · Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:58 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 131):

mrcaviation 4th January 2014 had delivery of NZC Jul 2015 and NZD Aug 2015, while I had Sep 2015 and Oct 2015 from another source. Does anyone know which is correct

July is what Luxon said.. Though that was back in January so who know if that wing crack issue has changed anything. I wouldn't expect it to have though.. But I'm sure you're aware that there's a heck of a lot of time for proving flights between the supposed July delivery and the start of the PER route.

aotearoa · Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:12 am

Hi all.

Clearly there is a substantial period between arrival in NZ of ZK-NZE in July and the first Perth flight in October. Expect to see this aircraft on AKL SYD AKL flights on a daily basis durung this period. The airline needs to begin operations with this new aircraft in a conservative manner. They also need the sectors for training.

I know this will make it difficult if any of you intended to try and achieve the first revenue flight as a passanger. Hopefully we can give some indication closer to the time, so those so inclined can look to book a seat in time to make this flight.

Any proving flying is unlikely to have passangers aboard, so if this does occur, it won't count as a first revenue flight.

PA515 · Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:15 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 132):
July is what Luxon said.. Though that was back in January so who know if that wing crack issue has changed anything. I wouldn't expect it to have though.. But I'm sure you're aware that there's a heck of a lot of time for proving flights between the supposed July delivery and the start of the PER route.

July 2014 is for the first 789 delivery ZK-NZE, but for NZC and NZD I have two different delivery times in 2015.

On 4th Jan 2014 mrcaviation said NZC and NZD were due in Jul and Aug 2015, but on 6th Jan 2014 ausbt said the 4th and 5th 789's (NZC and NZD) were due in Sep and Oct 2015.

PA515

NZ107 · Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:28 am

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 133):
Any proving flying is unlikely to have passangers aboard, so if this does occur, it won't count as a first revenue flight.

I'd find that odd.. The proving flights on the 77W were done with passengers straight away and I wouldn't expect it to be any different. But I'm keen to get on that first passenger flight..

Quoting PA515 (Reply 134):

Oh right, sorry.. Guess we'll wait and see. Anything could happen between now and then. Easy for someone to make a mistake on the month.. AusBT got the word straight out of either Luxon's or Dave Morgan's mouth..

777ER · Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:38 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 135):
But I'm keen to get on that first passenger flight..

I'm 100% certain that your not the only one! I'm really keen on a SYD flight or even a PER sector.

Booked today what will be my final NZ B744 flight today, AKL-SFO on June 27th. Will certainly be a strange flight knowing that NZ's Queen of the Skies will be departing our shores shortly afterwards. Would certainly have loved seat 1A/K but I'll settle for Y+ again on the top deck

Does anyone know what the leg room is like in seat 24A compared to 23A on the 77Ws?

NZ1 · Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:43 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 134):
On 4th Jan 2014 mrcaviation said NZC and NZD were due in Jul and Aug 2015, but on 6th Jan 2014 ausbt said the 4th and 5th 789's (NZC and NZD) were due in Sep and Oct 2015.

Jul & Aug are the correct dates for NZC and NZD.

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 133):
Any proving flying is unlikely to have passangers aboard, so if this does occur, it won't count as a first revenue flight.

Not sure where you got this from but it is untrue. Aircraft will be utilised on Tasman services for crew training purposes before launching to Perth as already announced.

NZ1

aotearoa · Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:16 am

I guess it comes down to your interpretation of proving flying. The context I'm using the term proving is in relation to 'proving' to the Civil Aviation Authority that the airline can begin revenue passenger operations. The difference between the B777 introduction and the B787-9 intro is that the -9 is a first of type.

I imagine that this proving flying could be a relatively low number of flights, provided the airline can demonstrate that it and the aircraft are 'ready '.

Until you have a Part 121 approval to operate the aircraft, you can't charge passengers a fare to travel. End of story.

sunrisevalley · Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:24 pm

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 138):
The difference between the B777 introduction and the B787-9 intro is that the -9 is a first of type.

I assume you are referring specifically to the 777-300ER in this context and that the 777-200ER would have been first of type for NZ and that would have had to have been proved. Or have I missed something.

PA515 · Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:22 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 137):
Jul & Aug are the correct dates for NZC and NZD.

Thanks.

PA515

cchan · Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:34 am

http://www.cookislandsnews.com/2014/March/Wed26/local.htm#1403260103

Not too sure how accurate this report it. This suggests that the RAR-LAX route will be operated by a 330 seat 777, rather than the 787.

SXI899 · Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:53 am

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 138):
I guess it comes down to your interpretation of proving flying. The context I'm using the term proving is in relation to 'proving' to the Civil Aviation Authority that the airline can begin revenue passenger operations. The difference between the B777 introduction and the B787-9 intro is that the -9 is a first of type.

I imagine that this proving flying could be a relatively low number of flights, provided the airline can demonstrate that it and the aircraft are 'ready '.

Until you have a Part 121 approval to operate the aircraft, you can't charge passengers a fare to travel. End of story.

Odds are that there won't be any requirement for such flights from the NZCAA. According to Part 121.57(a):

Each holder of an air operator certificate that intends to introduce a
new aeroplane type shall, prior to that aeroplane type being used in air
operations, ensure that a programme of proving flights is conducted, in
addition to the aeroplane certification tests, when proving flights acceptable
to the Director have not been previously conducted in accordance with the
requirements of the State of certification.

I expect that the proving flights that Boeing have conducted/will conduct with the -8/-9 will be acceptable to the Director, allowing NZ to begin pax ops immediately.

That said, you never know with aviation authorities (speaking from experience!!)

PA515 · Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:15 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 141):

A 33% increase on the 230 seat 763 is 306 seats. The upgraded 77E will have 312 seats, and the 789 will have 302 seats. Wouldn't be a 332 seat 77W as they are fully occupied.

The 77E makes sense especially as the Cook Islands Goverment is subsidising the route, so Air NZ can keep the more efficient 789 for non subsidised routes.

Also, KarelXWB posted a link on the '787 Production/Deliveries Thread' of today's NZ Herald item about the 789 simulator. In the accompanying video, Capt Dave Morgan says AKL-PER starts in September, not October.

PA515

cchan · Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:09 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 143):
A 33% increase on the 230 seat 763 is 306 seats. The upgraded 77E will have 312 seats, and the 789 will have 302 seats. Wouldn't be a 332 seat 77W as they are fully occupied.

This is the part I am confused about the article. The numbers don't add up to 33%.

Quoting PA515 (Reply 143):
The 77E makes sense especially as the Cook Islands Goverment is subsidising the route, so Air NZ can keep the more efficient 789 for non subsidised routes.

If my understanding is correct, the 77E will have more seats in the premium classes compared to the 789. Not sure how they are going to fill those premium seats, but I guess if the Cook Islands Government is paying, NZ doesn't care.

DavidByrne · Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:14 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 141):
Not too sure how accurate this report it. This suggests that the RAR-LAX route will be operated by a 330 seat 777, rather than the 787.

Doesn't surprise me. It must be very inefficient with crew to have only a single weekly 763 flight to the USA. However, with a 777 there's the possibility of rotating crew in service on flights nonstop back from LAX to AKL.

aerorobnz · Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:28 pm

As I have said before. The 787 in general is for making existing seasonally marginal routes make money freeing the 77E forthe new routes and increased frequencies. RAR-LAX is a low frequency operation that will be able to fit in one weekly 77e schedule along with the increased LAX/SFO frequencies and some of the new routings when they start.

AKL-SIN-AKL-RAR-LAX-AKL-XXX-AKL for example might be a weekly rotation.

aotearoa · Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:55 pm

Dave might just have got this one wrong......PER definitely starts in October.

Motorhussy · Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:17 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 144):
but I guess if the Cook Islands Government is paying, NZ doesn't care.

However the Cook Is Govt presumably has some input into what craft best suits the island group's purposes and maximises the return on its investment. The 789 is a better craft for them and, once enough of them are in the fleet, perhaps the Govt of Samoa may again underwrite a weekly connex.

AKL-PVG-AKL-RAR-LAX-APW-AKL-PER-AKL for example as a weekly rotation.

sunrisevalley · Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:42 am

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 148):
AKL-PVG-AKL-RAR-LAX-APW-AKL-PER-AKL for example as a weekly rotation.

Is this a rotation for a specific aircraft or is it a rotation that will use one aircraft ?

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