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asteriskceo
Posts: 501
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:42 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:32 pm

Quoting RNAVFL350 (Reply 248):
I am just wondering if the TCAS would not have gone off on the SIA plane(assuming it is equipped). MH772 would have to follow pretty close to not be picked up as an individual contact. Does anyone know if TCAS picks up radar contacts, or does it only pick up transponder equipped aircraft.

For TCAS to work as described, both planes would need their transponders set to at least the TA setting. If MH370's transponder was turned off, neither plane would have seen each other.
 
JimJupiter
Posts: 347
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:28 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:33 pm

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 222):
Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish 7h
@PartRhymer My #MH370 tweets may be far slower than usual today, all of my sources have gone dead silent, which indicates something is afoot

For me, as a non-Facebook and non-Twitter guy, that indicates an attention lover.  

Amen.
One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
 
DrivesForShow
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:38 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:33 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 236):
At some point it had to stop following the SIA aircraft, what proof we have it really could have then landed without any radar noticing it at any point? Also why there are no demands from the hijackers? Why would someone do that?

I think it's far more likely the aircraft just flew south towards Indian Ocean, then it wouldn't have had to follow any other aircraft as in most areas there's no radar coverage.

From the link I provided reply 228: "Once MH370 had cleared the volatile airspaces and was safe from being detected by military radar sites in India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan it would have been free to break off from the shadow of SIA68 and could have then flown a path to it’s final landing site. There are several locations along the flight path of SIA68 where it could have easily broken contact and flown and landed in Xingjian province, Kyrgyzstan, or Turkmenistan. Each of these final locations would match up almost perfectly with the 7.5 hours of total flight time and trailing SIA68. In addition, these locations are all possibilities that are on the “ARC” and fit with the data provided by Inmarsat from the SATCOM’s last known ping at 01:11UTC."

I can't answer why someone would do that or why there aren't demands, I'm just trying to answer the question of where the a/c is. This theory explains more of what we think we know than any other theory. The plane took an awfully random route to get the IGREX waypoint when it did if you think it intersecting with SIA 68 at that exact point is a complete coincidence. I find that hard to believe.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3505
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:33 pm

Quoting DrivesForShow (Reply 228):
I don't understand why this isn't the prevailing theory to this point. It claims the 370 maneuvered behind Singapore Airlines 68 (flying to Spain) and followed it over India and Pakistan to avoid radar detection. It's backed up with a lot of facts that I don't have time to get into but are all clearly laid out in the link above - it only takes 5 min to read and really convinced me. I've tried but I can't poke any holes in it right now (other than having a suitable runway but there are dry lake bed options, etc. that I don't think should shoot down this theory). SIA 68 was cruising at 30,000 ft at the point where MH 370 would have intercepted which explains the 29,500 ft report that came out early in the investigation - they were flying 500 ft below SIA 68 and would not be noticed on any radar. It also explains the random hard left it took right after "Alright, good night" and the hard right over the Andaman Sea. It also fits perfectly with the northern arc blip from 8:11AM (keep in mind a/c may have been on ground and not powered down at this point - if it landed).

There was a story in previous threads about it doing the same thing, but with a KLM flight.

Quoting EC135 (Reply 229):
What exactly means "know-how"? Remember, what happened between 1:07 and 1:37, last voice contact, Transponder off, climbing to FL450, turning ACARS off, can this all REALLY be done by ONE person in the cockpit?

Flying the airplane isn't all that hard. Especially if you're climbing and or turning. If he was doing an approach into a tough airport I would say it would be tough but doable, a simple climb and shutting off ACARS wouldn't be that difficult.

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 234):
In this day and age though, I would be completely shocked if there wasn't some sort of leak about an ongoing operation.

They managed to keep the Bin Laden raid quiet. Yeah this is a huge story constantly being reported on. But if they want to keep it quiet they will.

Quoting RNAVFL350 (Reply 248):
I am just wondering if the TCAS would not have gone off on the SIA plane(assuming it is equipped).

Since there was no transponder the SIA plane would have never known it was there.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
DiscoverCSG
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:22 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:34 pm

Quoting Mitico12 (Reply 152):
I don't know how many people subscribe to the whole "stolen jet masked as a legit flight" on a later date.

I mean, if you're scheduled to fly into a certain place, aren't all the ATC entities aware of your flight plan? So, essentially, some of you are suggesting that this "fake flight" steals the status of a scheduled airline for that route that date? What happens when the actual airline shows up on route that day too?

Also, if they mask themselves as a charter/private carrier, do you think its that easy to get an approval for flyover when no one knows anything about your airline/company? Where did you get the 777 from to register it?

Too many difficulties in using an airplane at a later date...too many.

If you fiddle with the transponder and depart from the hypothetical remote field, nobody knows you're a 777 until it's too late.

Quoting Capt747Ret (Reply 172):
We know that the flight deck was only occupied by the 2 working crew.

No, we don't know that. In fact, there's a history of the First Officer inviting others into the cockpit, to say nothing of what other crew might have entered on a legitimate pretext, or what hijacker might have gained entry somehow.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 208):
Because that would not fit the facts we have - the missing plane is a passenger plane.

Since this is completely hypothetical at this time - we have to match the facts. While stealing a freighter may seem like it makes more sense from our perspective, we don't have any idea what the goal of the hijackers, if there were any hijackers, was.

You may be able to argue a freighter makes more sense, but in doing that you are imparting your goals on the unknown people.

How's that for a circular non-informative answer.... Maybe I should go into PR.

It's harder for a hijacker to masquerade as Joe Q. Passenger on a cargo flight than on a passenger flight. And if you want to cause terror (which is what a "terrorist" does), you make every passenger on every flight wonder whether the same thing is going to happen on their flight as happened here.
 
Trin
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:45 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:34 pm

Amazing - 11 days into this tragedy-come-mystery, and it still feels like we are groping around in the dark.

I have read arguments for and against both the "northern route" and the "southern route" - but, I must admit, each day that the SaR efforts bring up no evidence of debris or wreckage from the Indian Ocean, the more I feel that plane took the northern route and was flown by someone who was very, very skilled and very, very familiar with international boundaries, ATC designated boundaries, and radar avoidance techniques. Just stunning.
 
mafi29
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:46 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:35 pm

What about the contrail of the aircraft? Shouldn't it be visible on images from meteorological satellites? At least in the infra red channels (as it was night)?

Sorry if it has bee discussed befor, but I haven't read all post of all the 32 threads... And a quick serch did not yield any results.

Thanks for your thoughts
 
edmountain
Posts: 235
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:00 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 243):
And for all the talk about how good the radar coverage is in some of these countries, the reality is that in times of relative peace, folks relax. And there was a map posted earlier that shows a clear path through areas that have no primary military radar and only ADS-B. Blips without a transponder on ADS-B don't cause fighters to be scrambled; they are usually dismissed as a flock of geese.

Yes, I think people are overstating the integrity of the radar coverage. On its first incursion KE007 slipped through some of the USSR's most sensitive areas at the height of the cold war even while they were expecting US surveillance aircraft to be in the area. The plane was seen but subsequent confusion delayed the response until the plane had already passed back out into international airspace.

If the plane flew north it's entirely possible it was seen but bewilderment on the ground prevented a response (which is exactly what happened in Malaysia itself).
 
k83713
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:38 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:36 pm

Quoting rheinwaldner (Reply 245):
And who would even be 'policing' maniacal Air Marshals?

I think the exit there is in distribution of responsibilities for emergency messages possiblities between cockpit and F/A (maybe marshall but not in cockpit).
Also some procedures should come for openning the door during the flight...Maybe cockpit should have own toilet, maybe there should be another door isolating cabin from entrance to the airplane/cockpit door/toilet area.
For suicidal pilot I think The F/O should be able to deal with it (or vice versa), I see no other way. Maybe three people in cockpit is better from the point of view that 2 prevail 1 suicidal, but then more costs and space issues.
By the way, if there is own toilet or no possibility to lock the door from inside if one of the crew is out (key?) then a suicidal pilot would not lock himself inside. At least at case of suicidal pilot it could save the flight.

Just thoughts.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3505
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:38 pm

HI All,

This thread has gotten quite long and Part 33 has been created. It can be found here MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 17 2014 in Civil Aviation) .

All posts made after the lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.

Regards,
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club

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