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tomlee
Posts: 610
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:01 am

Quoting Tapir (Reply 247):
Not if everyone unconscious.

Technically a phone doesn't need a person to be conscious to register on a GSM network it just needs to be on and compatible with the network which many unlocked and global freq phones travellers use are configured/able to do. At a very low altitude it would be relatively to highly probable that a phone left on could register successfully. Add on the fact the satcom pings would have to be horribly wrong for that to work means some more information is required to confirm that sighting before it can be considered much more than a rumor.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:04 am

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 249):

We know almost nothing, including if the radar pings in Malaysia were the plane or even accurate. After all, it appears
the climb to 45,000 was a false read.

No Aircraft, No Case - nearly everything will be conjecture.

The Malaysians gave the radar data to various countries and even if the altitude data might not be accurate the position info is probably good enough for US and AUS ops to occur in the southern area.
 
tapir
Posts: 136
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:04 am

Quoting jelliesR (Reply 248):

Yes. I was always thinking of someone making a call.
 
sovietjet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:06 am

One last CVR question and I'm sorry if it was asked before. Can the CVR and FDR be turned off in flight?
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:07 am

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 253):
One last CVR question and I'm sorry if it was asked before. Can the CVR and FDR be turned off in flight?

Almost any system can be turned off so yes you can turn off a CVR/FDR. If it has RIPS (Recorder independent power system) equipped it will still record for a few minutes.

[Edited 2014-03-18 19:08:17]
 
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7BOEING7
Posts: 3039
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:08 am

Quoting Tapir (Reply 245):
Could MH370 have flown on autopilot after pilots passed out?

Yes. And hypoxia is a very painless death -- you just drift off into oblivion. You don't even know you're dying.
 
jcxroberts
Posts: 97
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:09 am

Quoting stuyyz (Reply 15):

The pilot had Diego Garcia as one of his top 5 landing strips in his simulator, so for whatever reason he was aiming for this airport.
Coverup: It may all come down to the base commander or even the missile operator who is covering it up, and not telling his senior officer. Who knows...its a longshot theory in the first place.


Not only that , the sighting and described southerly path over the lower Maldives puts the plane right on top of Diego Garcia in a few hours.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:09 am

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 255):
Yes. And hypoxia is a very painless death -- you just drift off into oblivion. You don't even know you're dying.

Carbon monoxide could also cause the same thing.
 
PHX787
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:09 am

CNN and FOX said that the plane turned about 12 minutes before the final message.

The radar returns visible on FR24 are time delayed, depending on where you're at, they can be time delayed upwards to about 10-15 minutes (due to receivers being far away.) FAA data on FR24 is usually 5 minutes time delayed.

Are transponders to control centers also time delayed?


ALSO: Getting conflicting reports from a LOT of people that the plane reportedly turned up in Pakistan.....
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
jcxroberts
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:12 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 251):
The Malaysians gave the radar data to various countries and even if the altitude data might not be accurate the position info is probably good enough for US and AUS ops to occur in the southern area.

Well they were so definite abut it a few days ago and now are not.

Also, they backtracked when ACARS was 'turned off'.

I don't think they know much, and if DoD or someone else does - they aren't saying.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:13 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 258):
CNN and FOX said that the plane turned about 12 minutes before the final message.

This is HUGE. The plane made its supposedly 'forbidden' re-direct while the cockpit crew (and, presumably, the plane) were both OK.
 
Gatorman96
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:15 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 258):
ALSO: Getting conflicting reports from a LOT of people that the plane reportedly turned up in Pakistan.....

Heard the same for Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Diego Garcia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, "insert country here." Wake me up when they actually find the plane in one of said countries...
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:17 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 258):
CNN and FOX said that the plane turned about 12 minutes before the final message.

Not correct. A turn was entered in the FMS 12 min before final voice contact but not executed then.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:22 am

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 261):
"insert country here."

Atlantis. Brigadoon. Shangri La.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
Gatorman96
Posts: 841
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:23 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 263):
Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 261):
"insert country here."

Atlantis. Brigadoon. Shangri La.

I'm starting to subscribe to the theory that the plane launched itself into lower orbit
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:26 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 262):
Not correct. A turn was entered in the FMS 12 min before final voice contact but not executed then.

Now I am also receiving conflicting reports from both CNN, FOX, and every other news source saying that they cannot confirm that the turn was computer-input. Was this info sent via satallite to Boeing or RR?
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
coolian2
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:26 am

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 264):
I'm starting to subscribe to the theory that the plane launched itself into lower orbit

I reckon they found the lost city of gold.
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
Lindenwold
Posts: 58
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:27 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 265):

cnn just confirmed it for whatever that is worth.
 
PHX787
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:30 am

Quoting Lindenwold (Reply 267):
cnn just confirmed it for whatever that is worth.

The problem is how the heck did they confirm it?

IMHO You can't confirm s**t until you find the damn thing.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
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chrisnh
Posts: 4135
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:31 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 262):
Not correct. A turn was entered in the FMS 12 min before final voice contact but not executed then.

"Entered into the FMS" or "executed"...what difference does it make? The plane should have gone straight and instead went left...and a calm, unconcerned copilot says 'Good night?' Before they even take off, both crew members go over this stuff to cross-check for anomalies. A mis-commanded turn like this would happen hundreds of time daily all over the globe if pilots didn't cross-reference their waypoints. Yet you don't see that happening.

[Edited 2014-03-18 19:33:27]
 
chaseus1
Posts: 77
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:33 am

Quoting Lindenwold (Reply 267):
cnn just confirmed it for whatever that is worth.

CNN headline just says turn was programmed before last voice contact. Not that the turn was made then.

[Edited 2014-03-18 19:35:30]
 
hivue
Posts: 2125
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:26 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:33 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 269):
"Entered into the FMS" or "executed"...what difference does it make?

This was before the transponder went dead. If it was executed at that time then Singapore SSR was asleep. Not likely.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
tomlee
Posts: 610
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:01 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:36 am

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 266):

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 264):
I'm starting to subscribe to the theory that the plane launched itself into lower orbit

I reckon they found the lost city of gold.

In space of course.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10249
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:36 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 254):
Almost any system can be turned off so yes you can turn off a CVR/FDR.

In fact, there are circumstances in which you are supposed to pull the breaker on the CVR so it doesn't overwrite what would have been of interest to investigators.
 
tomlee
Posts: 610
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:01 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:39 am

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 259):
Well they were so definite abut it a few days ago and now are not.

Also, they backtracked when ACARS was 'turned off'.

I don't think they know much, and if DoD or someone else does - they aren't saying.

They already gave their radar data to the US authorities so if they think it is good enough to do ops in the southern area it isn't dependent on the Malaysian's competence unless they faked the data which is unlikely.
 
SeaTran
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:15 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:42 am

Quoting CaptainKramer (Reply 204):

This is a question for any Military Pilots or Tanker Pilots out there. From your experience, how difficult is it to rendesvous with a Military tanker, factoring in that both lead plane and chase plane are working together to meet up in a preset point in space and time.

Difficult but not impossible. In my opinion, it would be unlikely that a crew who had never accomplished a rendezvous before could successfully accomplish one esp at night and without communication with the crew in the aircraft they are rendezvousing with. I'm not familiar with what kinds of speeds a 777 flies at, but one reason rendezvous are typically accomplished lower than FL 300 is to ensure that there is adequate margin on airspeed in case a "tail chase" develops and the rendezvousing aircraft must accelerate to catch up to the lead aircraft. Rendezvous are more challenging at higher altitudes.

A rendezvous is not rocket science but most guys don't get very good at them until they have done quite a few of them. That's why you go to training to learn how to do them and that's why there are currency requirements so that you stay proficient with them.

So, the likelihood of a crew successfully accomplishing a night rendezvous without any real training (Flight Simulator on a PC doesn't count) is pretty low. On the other hand, it's not out of the realm of possibility. They could have gotten lucky.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:45 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 273):
In fact, there are circumstances in which you are supposed to pull the breaker on the CVR so it doesn't overwrite what would have been of interest to investigators.

And where is that breaker?
 
imagoagnitio
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:22 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:49 am

Maldives also receives the following scheduled and charter flights...take your pick of those with red stripes (that might look like a 'jumbo' to a non-enthusiast: ( SOURCE http://www.macl.aero/plus/S_AIRLINES/24/3 )

AEROFLOT
ALITALIA
AIR ASIA X
AIR INDIA
AUSTRIAN AIRLINES
BANKOK AIRWAYS
BRITISH AIRWAYS
CATHAY PACIFIC
CHINA EASTERN
CHINA SOUTHERN
CONDOR
EDELWEISS
EMIRATES
ETHIHAD AIRWAYS
FITS AIR
FLY DUBAI
HAINAN AIRLINES
HONGKONG AIRLINES
KOREAN AIR
XL AIRWAYS
MALDIVIAN
MALAYSIA AIRLINES
MERIDIANA FLY
NEOS
OMAN AIR
QATAR AIRWAYS
SICHUAN AIRLINES
SINGAPORE AIRLINES
SRI LANKAN
SPICE JET
THOMSONFLY
TRANSAERO
TURKISH
 
SeaTran
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:15 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:50 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 269):
"Entered into the FMS" or "executed"...what difference does it make? The plane should have gone straight and instead went left...and a calm, unconcerned copilot says 'Good night?' Before they even take off, both crew members go over this stuff to cross-check for anomalies. A mis-commanded turn like this would happen hundreds of time daily all over the globe if pilots didn't cross-reference their waypoints. Yet you don't see that happening.

It doesn't necessarily mean anything about the pilot who said it that he was "calm" and "unconcerned". Sometimes you get complacent up there. Most pilots these days do not follow along on their charts and expect a right turn vs left turn or know exactly where they are with relation to the airway. Most pilots follow the purple line and if the purple line says to go left, they go left and don't really question it.

However, if indeed the turn was programmed before he said it, it sounds like it would mean one of the two pilots inserted the new routing into the FMS. The pilot on the radio may not have noticed the other pilot changing the route. The other pilot may have taken a bathroom break and the routing was changed while he was off the flight deck. He comes back and still sees a purple line and thinks everything is good to go. Most guys are not going to assume the other pilot maliciously changed the routing while he was going to the bathroom.
 
LTC8K6
Posts: 1590
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:36 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:52 am

IIRC, the actual turn would be reported by ACARS, not the data entry. So if ACARS reported the turn, then the turn occurred before ACARS was disabled. I think.

ACARS reports the execution of the instruction, not the entry. I think.
 
AustinAllison
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:30 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:58 am

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 277):
Maldives also receives the following scheduled and charter flights...take your pick of those with red stripes

True, but the distance from the main airport to the site of the spotting is well over 100 miles. Doubtful a jumbo from Male (the capital) would be that low at that point.

[Edited 2014-03-18 20:06:32]
 
tomlee
Posts: 610
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:01 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:58 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 279):
IIRC, the actual turn would be reported by ACARS, not the data entry. So if ACARS reported the turn, then the turn occurred before ACARS was disabled. I think.

ACARS reports the execution of the instruction, not the entry. I think.

Not to mention I thought they only subscribed to engine health reporting. Doesn't it cost money even over VHF for each ACARS message or is it not really clear what subscriptions or data is expected. Too bad there isn't a public site for ACARS data plans and packages although I doubt they expect random people to sign up for such a service.
 
tomlee
Posts: 610
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:01 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:00 am

Quoting AustinALlison (Reply 280):
True, but the distance from the main airport to the site of the spotting is well over 300 miles. Doubtful a jumbo from Male (the capital) would be that low at that point.

Maybe some captain wanted to model themselves after a certain cruise ship captain and do a low altitude fly out. Although I can't imagine the local ATC not noticing that.
 
fooflyboy
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:15 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:04 am

From prior threads...

[unknown]If a certain terrorist group will "steal" a plane they will use it right away (9/11).

IADCA: I'm not convinced that whoever took it wants the plane. I think disappearing without a trace might be the point. It's a pretty powerful statement to say (by implication, of course): "We took a loaded 777 from a major airline and we made it vanish into thin air. You have no idea how we did it, and you don't even know who we are, so you have no idea if or when we might do it again.

THIS has been my pet theory for a while now. If true, the real shock would come with the disappearance of the next plane...

gatorman96: Aside from a battle over the flight controls, this could be an explanation for the sudden climb to 43-45K feet.

I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere, but let's say the hijacker decompresses the cabin. The passengers are in real trouble after a few minutes but the f/a's have their oxygen bottles. So there is an attempt on their part to break into the cockpit. To quell the commotion and to thwart this, the hijacker enters a steep climb - attempting to physically force the f/a's to the rear of the plane. (thoughts??)

virgin744: Why not steal a cargo plane? Why do it with passengers on board?

It's easy to board a passenger plane. Just buy a ticket. Besides who is going to really notice that a cargo plane is missing? It may be a news item, but that would be about it. And if your goal is terror, making over 200 people disappear is much more in line with such an evil plan.

laddb: Naturally, whoever landed at some remote airport is probably filling a boat with seat cushions and suitcases to be scattered in the middle of the Indian Ocean as a diversion.

Oh wow. Unfortunately that makes sense...
 
AustinAllison
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:30 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:07 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 282):
Maybe some captain wanted to model themselves after a certain cruise ship captain and do a low altitude fly out. Although I can't imagine the local ATC not noticing that.

I re-read the article, and the distance is more like 100 miles. Still quite a distance, but not the 300 I previously said.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3511
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35

Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:17 am

Hi All,

This thread has gotten quite long and Part 36 was created. It can be found here MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 36 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation) .

All posts made after the lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.

Regards,
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club

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