Quoting Tapir (Reply 48): This looks like a large chunk of something . 20 x 60 meters.

Water maybe, I don't see anything there although I'm not very good at seeing patterns in those stare at image things. Are those sat images grayscale or is the deep ocean just very gray in general.

Did I read about 20 threads ago that there was a Malaysian Airlines mechanic on board? More recently perhaps described as an engineer?

Is it feasible that if the crew knew this guy that they would have allowed him to ride jump seat? If so he could be our guy.

[Edited 2014-03-18 21:31:40]

Quoting ivanoruvan (Reply 43): Beats me. But looks like something which is partially burnt too. Nose, tail of an aircraft?? Man, now I'm delusional.

Can somebody tag these bad boys because I'm just seeing waves--no idea what you're referring to.
Edit: oh, I see clouds too.

[Edited 2014-03-18 21:33:08]

Its hard to believe that the air defenses of all the countries involved did not track the airplane. They can't even cooperate to find the plane, what show us there are a lot of distrust among them.

In this case there are two big scenarios:
a) The MH370 stopped flying in the exact moment of the disappearance and the question is where is the wreckage?
b) The MH370 didn't stop to fly and both questions are: (1) how the hell the countries couldn't find it on the air and/or how the airplane did not enter any area monitored by air forces?(2)

If you can't cooperate in a case such this one is normal that the military should work on alert to anything different. I've heard the chinese government is looking for the plane in its territory. So is it able to enter the Chinese airspace unnoticed? Even in a place relatively close with Taiwan?

It sounds all very strange.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 50):

[img] https://www.airliners.net/ufview.file?id=194738&filename=phpU0FxgV.png [/img]

I have no idea how to upload image.

[Edited 2014-03-18 21:31:47]

Quoting Tapir (Reply 54):

looks like a tortoise

Quoting Lindenwold (Reply 55):

Also worth looking at if its size is 20 x 60.

Quoting Tapir (Reply 54): I have no idea how to upload image.

You did great. Looks like something big all right.

Quoting chaseus1 (Reply 37): Quoting Tapir (Reply 32):Getting weird. Another strange shape here. Same location. http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/mh370_indian_ocean/map/4953 wreckage? Lots of debris or something all over that area!

Where is this? Is it down in the southern Indian ocean? Or up north closer to Malaysia?

I don't watch Faux News, and i detest Hannity, but take a gander at this (from PlatinumFlyer at PPrune):

"Interesting inteview on the Hannity show with General McInerny. He retired as Vice Chief or Staff of the Air Force and appears to have significant intelligence connections. A week ago he was saying don't ignore Pakistan. He was back on tonight making the case stronger. Some of the information he mentioned was that he believed the aircraft was in the Taliban controlled areas of Paksitan (Western?) where there were 3 airfields capable of handling the plane. He said that he beielved both pilots were complicit and that they did NOT turn off their communications (VHF, HF,SATCOM) and that US 'vacuum cleaners' would be expected to pick up their communications with their destination. He believed that the pressure will build on Pakistan and things will come to a head in 24-28 hours.
He also said that the US Navy would not have pulled its ships from the Indian Ocean unless they knew something. Also, Israel has gone on a higher state of alert, somenting they would not have done without intelligence."


http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/03/18...ght-370-could-have-landed-pakistan

from the previous thread....

Quoting wjcandee: In fact, there are circumstances in which you are supposed to pull the breaker on the CVR so it doesn't overwrite what would have been of interest to investigators.

Quoting 7BOEING7: And where is that breaker?

From an AAIB report on a past incident in a 777-232:

Quote: Given that the incident happened on stand it is unfortunate that over one hour elapsed before power to the CVR was isolated. Deactivation of the CVR after an accident or incident is part of the published crew procedures. However, the practicalities of isolating the power from the CVR fitted to the B777 are not straightforward since the CVR circuit breaker is located in the electronics bay of the aircraft instead of on the flight deck. Access to the electronics bay from within the aircraft is via a hatch in the cabin floor adjacent to the front left door of the aircraft, alternatively access can be gained from beneath the aircraft via a hatch.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...ng%20777-232,%20N864DA%2010-06.pdf
(page 15)

So the pilots presumably would not have been able to shut off the CVR/FDR from the cockpit. Good news for the FDR, bad news for the CVR (because it almost certainly recorded over the initial diversion if power wasn't cut due to long flight time).

If you're curious, here's what the circuit breaker panels on the 777 look like:

http://www.meriweather.com/flightdeck/777/aft/break-l.jpg

http://www.meriweather.com/flightdeck/777/aft/break-r.jpg

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 59):

No idea. Can't figure out . The map says Indian Ocean. Same area with the earlier photo where it looked like someone sitting on a float.

Quoting Tapir (Reply 63):

I believe the trick, mentioned a long time ago is to switch challenge to api in the link (not sure if the position is accurate)

{"id":4953,"overlay_id":1282,"lat":7.731366,"lon":109.011345,"status":1,"msg":"Retrieved map ID = 4953"}

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 60): He also said that the US Navy would not have pulled its ships from the Indian Ocean unless they knew something.

On CNN they said that the USS Kidd did leave the area. but they still have a P-3 flying from Malaysia and a P-8 flying from Perth looking for the plane.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 41):

Thanks for the explanation. Canadian references always welcomed!   That definitely helps.

How are they so convinced that new route was entered before transponder went out? Where is the hard data? What plane communication reveals this? I have not seen that or have I completely missed something here?

Thanks!

Quoting Tapir (Reply 54): [img] https://www.airliners.net/ufview.file?id=194738&filename=phpU0FxgV.png [/img] I have no idea how to upload image.

you don't upload the image, you TAG it, with the icons, you may have to register to get credit, but unless you tag it, no one will notice. Also you can SHARE the frame you are investigating on Reddit, or send e-mail to the Tomnod crew for followup. But tagging is the most important part. I also tried something great, assuming they have taken a 100 miles x 100 miles optical image and split into frames, you can use your mouse to scroll left/right/top/bottom and slowly traverse the entire field of vision your session has been assigned. That way, your browser (right hand column) actually builds up slowly (fill in the blanks) all of the entire image, like a puzzle !

You must use your mouse to SCROLL laterally or vertically to make it happen, and you must tag the objects as you think fit.

Good luck.... If you are tired of scrolling just jump randomly to a square and repeat the process each time.

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 67):

Thanks. Will figure out and I hope someone here would tag it.

Another object in the same area..

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/mh370_indian_ocean/map/2894

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 60): "Interesting inteview on the Hannity show with General McInerny. He retired as Vice Chief or Staff of the Air Force and appears to have significant intelligence connections. A week ago he was saying don't ignore Pakistan. He was back on tonight making the case stronger. Some of the information he mentioned was that he believed the aircraft was in the Taliban controlled areas of Paksitan (Western?) where there were 3 airfields capable of handling the plane. He said that he beielved both pilots were complicit and that they did NOT turn off their communications (VHF, HF,SATCOM) and that US 'vacuum cleaners' would be expected to pick up their communications with their destination. He believed that the pressure will build on Pakistan and things will come to a head in 24-28 hours. He also said that the US Navy would not have pulled its ships from the Indian Ocean unless they knew something. Also, Israel has gone on a higher state of alert, somenting they would not have done without intelligence." http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/03/18...istan

Thank you for the link.

Definitely worth watching.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03...ed-in-12-minutes-after-course-was/

They are putting the turn at 1:07...

Which seems very odd. I believe 9M-MRO had not cleared Malaysia at 1:07...

I am not a techie but a flight enthusiast. Can anyone clue me into ADS-C? This is very new to em.

Thanks!

From previous thread - man, these threads move on so fast when compiling a post.... already 71 posts in the new thread...


Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 185):
A failure of the main instrumentation would not affect the backups.

So in this case there would still be some method of communicating to head office they had tech problems and were returning to KUL, right? Im pretty sure that would have happened.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 193):
That is my problem with a fire theory as well. I would think that we would have seen burned debris by now

And not continued flying for 7 hours.

Quoting Tapir (Reply 196):
Is it normal to carry that many fruits in a passenger jet?

Yes. One of the top air cargoes - perishables (fruit / veg / meat / flowers).

Quoting KIAS (Reply 205):
some Tintin plot

You bring up another scenario, maybe it hit a thundering typhoon or the plane was invaded by great snakes
Quoting Tapir (Reply 219):
One more theory - exploding mangosteen?

And again continued to fly for 7 hours yet totally unable to communicate? Anyway, I think its been clarified you are thinking of durians.

Quoting capri (Reply 222):
instead of pilot suicide, how about pax(s) suicide, i.e deportees to China?

And they would be qualified to fly a 777 and go right into the FMS and turn of ACARS transmissions and everything else we suppose happened?

Quoting capri (Reply 222):
no one and no talks about a Russian and 2 Ukrainians onboard, no reports on them or families or if passports stolen or anything else, especially with Crimea coincidence

For what? How is crashing or stealing a 777 going to help the Crimeans gain independence or otherwise? Dozens of retired IL, TU & AN not to mention military aircraft laying around the former CIS states for someone to use if they wanted a makeshift bomber if that is your thought. Seems pretty easy to walk into an airport and do what you want with no shots being fired......

Quoting Tapir (Reply 226):
Anyway, new theory from dailymail pointing to hidden explosive device in the mangosteen

We always get shown theses pictures in our air cargo security training of explosives hidden in every day products. Never ever heard of it happening though (drugs quite likely) - and again, how come it then flew for 7 hours unable to communicate.

Quoting Tapir (Reply 245):
Could MH370 have flown on autopilot after pilots passed out?

Yes. But the question is how did that happen. Seems too strange a coincidence after the flight plan was knowingly changed and comms disabled.

The most plausible theory I have seen and I think it is worth repeating is a pilot suicide, whereby one or the other took out his companion (or he left the cockpit - a replacement F/A probably would not know what he was doing until it was too late), programmed the way points, took the plane up high, depressurized the cabin killing everyone, set the plane back on AP on the south arc route towards the IO then, took of his own mask thereby committing suicide and let the plane fly on until the fuel exhausted, when it then crashed into the ocean, probably off the coast of Western Australia where he knew it would be super hard to ever find them and nature takes it course to disperse the wreckage.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 66): How are they so convinced that new route was entered before transponder went out? Where is the hard data? What plane communication reveals this? I have not seen that or have I completely missed something here?

ADS-C could reveal it, if it was being utilized which I am personally skeptical about but have no way of knowing for sure. Maybe other ACARS messages that transmit the current executing flight plan, but we've been told they got nothing but routine messages.

I don't know why they are so convinced. Hard data has not been provided. This certainly wouldn't be the first or second time the media has been sure of something and then backtracked with this whole affair.

FR24 has 9M-MRO over Kampung Sungai Bari at 1:07, about 12Km or so from clearing Malaysia.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 72): I am not a techie but a flight enthusiast. Can anyone clue me into ADS-C? This is very new to em.

Basically it's used in FANS as a way to communicate aircraft position and intentions to controllers via ACARS when outside of radar coverage.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 64):

Thanks tomlee. The tomnod map says Indian Ocean but now using "api" it points to the location where the NZ guy saw something burning the sky.Maybe oil rig.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 71):

What are they looking at to come to this conclusion? I think they are completely wrong! If the plane already turned before the copilot's goodnight, secondary Malaysian radar would have picked that up, especially because the turn was not in line with flight path to PEK.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 26): What I think may be the truth. -> The ACARS report at 1:07 may have included ADS-C Data that says that new way-points (yet to be identified in the press) had been entered (not executed, just loaded). -> The aircraft had NOT turned - as that would have been revealed on Secondary Radar.(ATC).

Thanks, rcair1, for more excellent work separating fact, good speculation, bad speculation, and total bullsh*t. I wish it were you on CNN breaking it down for us.

Quoting Tapir (Reply 7): Ok this from tomnod Facebook. It does look like a person to me. http://www.tomnod.com/.../cha.../mh3.../2234

Quoting Tapir (Reply 32): Getting weird. Another strange shape here. Same location. http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/mh370_indian_ocean/map/4953

#1 - Check your scale, this "person" would be ~8m tall

#2 - Click around all the other tiles in that area... Lots and lots of evenly distributed white blobs - statistically some will look very wreckagelike. Too many & too big in my mind to be wreckage. Also the image is color but all the "debris" is pure white. Conclusion - they are whitecaps (waves cresting) & swells. Looking closely, some are more obviously wavelike than others but they all seem similar in nature.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 78): What are they looking at to come to this conclusion? I think they are completely wrong! If the plane already turned before the copilot's goodnight, secondary Malaysian radar would have picked that up, especially because the turn was not in line with flight path to PEK.

Yeah, I don't know where this is coming from.

I don't see how it can be correct.

Interview with eyewitnesses (Maldives?) coming up on ABC's Nightline.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 76):

I see. Thanks!

Quoting Tapir (Reply 69): Thanks. Will figure out and I hope someone here would tag it.

Guess what, using a Cursor key (left, right, up, down) works fantastically fast. Speeds up the process. Don't use the mouse when browsing TomNod.

Quoting Tapir (Reply 77): Thanks tomlee. The tomnod map says Indian Ocean but now using "api" it points to the location where the NZ guy saw something burning the sky.Maybe oil rig.

I think you can also see the imaged areas by looking at the front page, http://www.tomnod.com/nod/

Hopefully they will retask their sat and image where the Australia reduced search area is.

Quoting edmountain (Reply 52): Can somebody tag these bad boys because I'm just seeing waves--no idea what you're referring to. Edit: oh, I see clouds too.

One cannot be bad just to give some opinion. Check the image and see for yourself.

Okay, I just learned that the FMS will hold 2 flight plans, an active one and a secondary one. You can switch between them.

yeah i thought the same thing. I'm willing to give this retired General the benefit of the doubt. Why would he come on a news channel, even though yes its Fox News, and just make up theories. I think he knows something and i'm gonna be watching for the next couple of days.

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:12:27 by SA7700]

Quoting ivanoruvan (Reply 86):

I see pixels.

Can't really make out anything if it is that zoomed in, so I control-scrolled out till it got really small but even then I couldn't recognize anything.

Quoting ivanoruvan (Reply 86): One cannot be bad just to give some opinion. Check the image and see for yourself.

It's clearly a bunch of pixels.

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 83): Guess what, using a Cursor key (left, right, up, down) works fantastically fast. Speeds up the process. Don't use the mouse when browsing TomNod.

Also I noticed if your searching really fast the gird mask sometimes turns off and you can see everything around the gird your on and if you maintain velocity it doesn't come back until you stop.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 60): I don't watch Faux News, and i detest Hannity, but take a gander at this (from PlatinumFlyer at PPrune):

FWIW, Flyingwithfish mentioned this yesterday.

Quoting Tapir (Reply 63):

If you look on the main page, they have earth map with zones for which satellite collected images. They are all close to Malaysia, including a few in Indian Ocean, and tagged as taken at last 10 days (not last 4 days). That's why it says Indian Ocean. I think it's related to that old campaign we heard about, it's not fresh images of the southern arc or something...

[Edited 2014-03-18 22:14:18]

Quoting FirstClass (Reply 4): My understanding is that the possible locations are all based on the last ping. My question is how these arcs looked like for the previous pings.

We can add one question: how far from these arcs could it be by now? Why assuming that it didn't take off shortly after a first landing along one of these arcs ? Afterall, if such an operation was planned, fuel could have been available at the first landing place to allow flying further away. Any remaining communication device could have been completely disabled during that first stop to minimize the risks of further detection. So by now, the plane could be in the middle of Sahara for example.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 90): It's clearly a bunch of pixels.

It's zoomed in. You have to use the link Tapir mentioned to see the actual shot. I'm not saying he has found something. But it does look a lot more than waves or pixels.

Quoting ivanoruvan (Reply 95): It's zoomed in. You have to use the link Tapir mentioned to see the actual shot. I'm not saying he has found something. But it does look a lot more than waves or pixels.

I have already seen the pic. Several times.

I wonder why no one bothers to post consecutive pics of the same spot? Are they not available? They would help to weed out a lot of stuff.

Maldives is not in the southern arc. It is way out from the southern arc. I doubt the Maldives sighting is a solid lead. Where were the witness all of these days, especially when they all seem to be in agreement? The whole world knows about MH 370.

I've lurked every single one of these threads from day 1 and I don't think I'm alone in saying that this tomnod.com has provided zero information and has created zero possible leads, all it's done is caused confusion from the very beginning.

CNN reporting tonight that the FBI has ZERO forensic evidence of any pre-planned action by the pilots, other than the events leading up to to westward turn of the aircraft.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 73): depressurized the cabin killing everyone, set the plane back on AP on the south arc route towards the IO then, took of his own mask thereby committing suicide and let the plane fly on until the fuel exhausted, when it then crashed into the ocean, probably off the coast of Western Australia where he knew it would be super hard to ever find them and nature takes it course to disperse the wreckage.

Wouldn't carbon monoxide also knock people out. Do commercial planes even have any carbon monoxide, CO2, or O2 sensors for air quality assessment. If there was a fire that was small enough to not take the plane out completely but didn't actually fully extinguish couldn't it introduce enough carbon monoxide to slowly incapacitate everyone. Alternatively if they used a improperly burning kerosene heater that would also make a lot of CO (unlikely, just an example of something that could make CO). How many air changes per hour does a plane's air conditioning system do normally with fresh outside air and if there is smoke do they shut down most of the intake air or is there some smoke purge type system to flush fresh air in (although one would imagine that would be bad in terms of feeding a fire or smouldering one with more oxygen). A smouldering fire being an perfect example of incomplete combustion would definitely make a lot of CO.

That being said something deliberate still seems more plausible just there isn't just lack of O2 or low partial pressure that can knock people out for good. (CO is also a cumulative poison)

Good ADS-C overwiew: http://prezi.com/pcuvxhcklsda/ads-c-overview/