MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 36

HAWK21M · Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:22 am

What about the news of Locals at Maldives noticing a low flying large aircraft OR the Indians primary radar at Nicobar picking up the Aircraft on recorded tapes....which is correct.....

flood · Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:22 am

Reuters via twitter a few minutes ago:

"Investigators' working assumption is that missing Malaysia plane flew to southern Indian Ocean - source. #MH370"
http://twitter.com/ReutersAero/status/446181065195913216

tapir · Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:30 am

Quoting flood (Reply 160):

Investigators examining the March 8 disappearance of a Malaysia Airlines plane with 239 people aboard believe it most likely that the plane flew into the southern Indian Ocean, a source close to the investigation said on Wednesday.

"The working assumption is that it went south, and furthermore that it went to the southern end of that corridor," said the source, referring to a search area stretching from west of Indonesia to the Indian Ocean west of Australia.

[More to follow]

http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/257561

tapir · Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:32 am

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 156):
blog

This is also believable like all other theories. Especially, the cargo manifest is yet to be seen.

[Edited 2014-03-19 00:44:27]

flood · Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:53 am

Quoting Tapir (Reply 161):

Yeah, nothing new, but it's nice to see it being reported again as it firmly flies in the face of some of the more bizarre theories involving Pakistan or Iran which were aired on CNN today.

Quoting Tapir (Reply 162):
This is also believable like all other theories.

Possible, yes. Believable, not really.

dragon-wings · Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:54 am

Quoting Tapir (Reply 161):
"The working assumption is that it went south, and furthermore that it went to the southern end of that corridor," said the source, referring to a search area stretching from west of Indonesia to the Indian Ocean west of Australia.

And yet when CNN interviewed a commanding officer on one of the US Navy ship searching he said the southern search zone has hardly been searched at all. I wonder why they haven't searched the southern search zone much at all?

Starlionblue · Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:03 am

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 165):

Quoting Tapir (Reply 161):
"The working assumption is that it went south, and furthermore that it went to the southern end of that corridor," said the source, referring to a search area stretching from west of Indonesia to the Indian Ocean west of Australia.

And yet when CNN interviewed a commanding officer on one of the US Navy ship searching he said the southern search zone has hardly been searched at all. I wonder why they haven't searched the southern search zone much at all?

Because it is all ocean and about the size of 1 200 000 000 football fields. They're working on it but it will take a while.

EVAAIRBR076 · Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:14 am

Quoting Tapir (Reply 161):

Gosh those malaysians authorities really dont know how to handle this case. Now they are confident it flew the southern route pffff are u serious? A few days back they were so confident that it flew the northern route. They really have no idea, its better if another country would lead the search and investigstion, cause what an amateurs are the malasian gouvernment. Everyday they come up with a different story and every pressconfrence they twist and turn things.

[Edited 2014-03-19 01:16:37]

tomlee · Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:18 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 167):
Because it is all ocean and about the size of 1 200 000 000 football fields. They're working on it but it will take a while.

Add on rough seas and high winds makes searching all that much harder and if they do take sat images there is going to be a lot of visual noise.

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 168):
Gosh those malaysians authorities really dont know how to handle this case. Now they are confident it flew the southern route pffff are u serious? A few days back they were so confident that it flew the northern route. They really have no idea, its better if another country would lead the search and investigstion, cause what an amateurs are the malasian gouvernment.

Well to be fair they have mostly said equal probabilities and now the ball is in mainly in China (north), Australia (south) so if you don't like how Malaysia has been doing there are two new leads for each respective area. If it crashed in China it is only a matter of time to find it as a land crash site doesn't tend to move around much on land while in the south the ocean surface has been drifting away for days on days now so their search is more difficult.

tapir · Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:20 am

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 168):

Interestingly today's headline in local paper (Berita Harian) was the "air marshal" (my translation for pengawal) was withdrawn 6 hours before the flight. I am still waiting for the digital print.

KIAS · Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:26 am

An airline pilot named Desmond Ross has been giving statements and opinion since MH370 disappeared, but here is a relatively fresh quote which I find plausible, and perhaps many people have not yet seen. I searched for "Desmond" and "Ross" on the last few threads and got no hits, so here it is:

Quote:
Desmond Ross, an Australian commercial pilot and aviation security expert who conducted a review of Kuala Lumpur airport in 2005.

Mr Ross said that while the focus had been on what Mr Najib said appeared to be movements "consistent with deliberate action by someone on the plane", there were a number of possible explanations as to why the plane lost communication, turned back and flew on for more than seven hours.

One theory was that the aircraft depressurised for some reason, possibility an explosion causing a hole in the fuselage.

"The pilots quickly recognise the need to descend," said Captain Ross. "One of them starts to reprogram the flight management system and sets a low attitude and starts to reset the heading to turn back to Kuala Lumpur … however he passes out before completing the entries into the computer for the new heading. The aircraft climbs out of control due to the explosion on board and then stalls at somewhere between the cruising height and 45,000 feet.

"It falls out of control to the height the pilot had set into the flight management system but does not complete the turn back to Kuala Lumpur because the pilot had only partly entered the numbers … it flies off on an unknown path."

Captain Ross stressed that he had no direct knowledge of the investigation.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/who-keye...mands-on-mh370-20140318-350gv.html

tomlee · Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:29 am

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4w6RpGjTiQpM1dxMzdSTHRMeW8&usp=sharing

In their first day of searching they covered a good portion of what they estimate for the southern area and that was just with one plane. In the next few days they are getting 4+ planes I think and any passing ships to help with the search. The press kit link from the AMSA is basically everything you need to know about the Australian search ops and is updated frequently it seems in addition to their website. Hopefully they find something soon as they seem to think there is still some chance of survivors and if debris sighted the investigation can bring on the deep sea subs which will take time to reposition. (The sooner something is found the better as tracing the debris back to the point of origin isn't getting easier with time)

peterinlisbon · Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:30 am

In the event of a decompression the first thing to do is to put on the oxygen masks. They would then start an emergency descent to 10,000ft and radio mayday. For the passengers, the masks come down automatically. You definitely don't program a route over the Indian Ocean in the FMS and switch of ACARS. I don't think that's what happened.

speedbird128 · Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:30 am

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 168):
Gosh those malaysians authorities really dont know how to handle this case

in response to this

Quoting Tapir (Reply 161):
a source close to the investigation

There are "experts" and "source close to the investigation" around every corner nowadays...

How seriously is one supposed to take these "sources"... Because its not an official statement.

Starlionblue · Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:40 am

Quoting KIAS (Reply 171):
One theory was that the aircraft depressurised for some reason, possibility an explosion causing a hole in the fuselage.

"The pilots quickly recognise the need to descend," said Captain Ross. "One of them starts to reprogram the flight management system and sets a low attitude and starts to reset the heading to turn back to Kuala Lumpur … however he passes out before completing the entries into the computer for the new heading. The aircraft climbs out of control due to the explosion on board and then stalls at somewhere between the cruising height and 45,000 feet.

I don't know if he was misquoted but if you need to descend "right now" you would not use the VNAV mode and the Flight Management System. It would take too long. Either hand fly or use Flight Level Change for the autopilot. Once down at a safe altitude, you might start worrying about waypoints and such, though I wager you'd just ask for vectors for the nearest suitable runway.

[Edited 2014-03-19 01:40:37]

Pihero · Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:40 am

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 26):
NTSB expert said "the 777 has fire extinguishing capability to handle ANY fire". Both Patrick Smith and the other pilot were saying "No - not true."

An airliner has fire extinguishing capability
via bottles and handles :
- Engines
-APU
- Cargo holds,
- Toilets,

Then with portable extinguishers :
- Cabin and galleys
- Flight deck...
- Crew rest areas

Not protected areas are :
- Electronic compartments (only smoke detectors)
- Wheel wells
-....... wings....

There is only one good way to deal with an electrical fire : cut the power to the affected circuit... but first one has to identify it, and that's not in many cases either easy or quick.
Another characteristic of an electrical fire is that it could stop once the circuit has burned off and contacts are severed : no short and no arcing.

Unfortunately, and against any common sense, fire is only ascribed as *cargo fire*, whjich is the best protected area and has absolutely no influence on the airplanes airworthiness : so isolated and so well blanketed that it could not touch flight controls and especially electronics / electrics.
That means that knowledge of any potentially dangerous cargo is a blind alley.

What is amazing in all the posts / articles / TV shows... on this accident is that the aircraft and its systems have never been investigated apart from generics like ACARS / MCDU / SATCOM... etc...
I, for one, would have thought that there could be some technical explanation on the original events, of which we know very little :
Lost transponder data, Lost aircraft from any radar...Never regained communications...

Now : There are quite a few instances of electrical fires on the 777, all on the ground, therefore all well documented.
"Why on the ground ?", could one ask... because on the ground you can have a lot of switching / power transfers... taht are scarce in air normal operations... Would we then dismiss a MEC fire ( for instance) because it has never happened before ?
For people interested in factual information, this is the AAIB report on 777 fire LHR

In the *Findings* part, there is, p 67 some interesting bits :
"The ‘SMOKE/FUMES/FIRE ELEC’ checklist initial actions are: don oxygen
mask and regulators (if required), establish crew communications, turn gasper
switch off (which removes fan as a possible source of smoke/fumes), and turn
recirculation fans off. If the source of smoke can be determined, power should
be removed from the affected electrical equipment by a switch or circuit breaker.
If the smoke persists or the source is unknown then the checklist instructs
for various cabin and in-flight entertainment systems to be turned off, and to
accomplish a landing at the nearest suitable airport. It also directs the crew to
the ‘SMOKE/FUME/ODOR REMOVL’ checklist.
The ‘EQUIP COOLING OVRD’ checklist covers the condition that the
equipment cooling system has gone into override mode. The first instruction
is to wait for two minutes to allow time for any smoke in the system to clear.
The next action is to cycle the Equipment Cooling Switch
OFF and then to AUTO
.
If the ‘EQUIP COOLING OVRD’ message remains displayed, then the crew
are to note that ‘
After 30 minutes of operation at low altitude and low cabin
differential pressure, electronic equipment and displays may fail.

Regards

KIAS · Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:42 am

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 173):
In the event of a decompression the first thing to do is to put on the oxygen masks. They would then start an emergency descent to 10,000ft and radio mayday. For the passengers, the masks come down automatically. You definitely don't program a route over the Indian Ocean in the FMS and switch of ACARS. I don't think that's what happened.

How about Payne Stewart's Learjet? Here's a brief. The circumstances are not too dissimilar:

Quote:
At 1327:13Z, the controller from the Jacksonville ARTCC instructed the pilot to climb and maintain flight level (FL) 390 (39,000 feet (12,000 m) above sea level). At 1327:18Z (0927:18 EDT), the pilot acknowledged the clearance by stating, "three nine zero bravo alpha." This was the last known radio transmission from the airplane, and occurred while the aircraft was passing through 23,000 feet (7,000 m). The next attempt to contact the aircraft occurred six minutes, 20 seconds later (14 minutes after departure), with the aircraft at 36,500 feet (11,100 m), and the controller's message went unacknowledged. The controller attempted to contact N47BA five more times in the next 4½ minutes, again with no answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_South_Dakota_Learjet_crash

The NTSB found, in that instance:

Quote:
Following the depressurization, the pilots did not receive supplemental oxygen in sufficient time and/or adequate concentration to avoid hypoxia and incapacitation. The wreckage indicated that the oxygen bottle pressure regulator/shutoff valve was open on the accident flight. Further, although one flight crew mask hose connector was found in the wreckage disconnected from its valve receptacle (the other connector was not recovered), damage to the recovered connector and both receptacles was consistent with both flight crew masks having been connected to the airplane's oxygen supply lines at the time of impact. In addition, both flight crew mask microphones were found plugged into their respective crew microphone jacks. Therefore, assuming the oxygen bottle contained an adequate supply of oxygen, supplemental oxygen should have been available to both pilots' oxygen masks.
[A] possible explanation for the failure of the pilots to receive emergency oxygen is that their ability to think and act decisively was impaired because of hypoxia before they could don their oxygen masks. No definitive evidence exists that indicates the rate at which the accident flight lost its cabin pressure; therefore, the Safety Board evaluated conditions of both rapid and gradual depressurization.

It's possible. Hypoxia can be something which sets in without a person knowing it's happening. Pilots are trained to aviate, navigate, then communicate. Perhaps they didn't realize masks were necessary until it was too late? Perhaps they donned their masks, but another failure meant they weren't getting proper oxygen?

Hard to say, but I think the scenario is plausible and has historical precedent. I'm not saying this happened 100%, but I find it more compelling than the alternatives.

KIAS · Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:54 am

In addition to the Douglas Ross quote above, as well as the Payne Stewart incident, here are two more examples of an unresponsive crew with a plane climbing to a very high altitude (exceeding service ceiling) and flying until exhausting all fuel, then crashing. Note slow depressurization as the likely culprit. The crew didn't realize they were being deprived of oxygen.

Quote:
Robert Edward "Bo" Rein, a noted football coach for North Carolina State and then Louisiana State University (LSU) (where he had been hired only six weeks before) was flying with a pilot from Shreveport, Louisiana to Baton Rouge, Louisiana on January 10, 1980 in a Cessna 441 Conquest twin-turboprop, registered N441NC. The flight was supposed to last 40 minutes, but after flying east and climbing to avoid a thunderstorm, the plane lost contact with air traffic control and was seen on radar to climb to 40,000 feet (12,000 m).

The Conquest was eventually intercepted by two Michigan Air National Guard F-4C Phantoms from Seymour-Johnson AFB in Goldsboro, North Carolina, and a pair of F-106 Delta Dart interceptors from the 48th Fighter Interceptor Squadron at Langley AFB aircraft in Virginia.[8] When intercepted, the Cessna was over 1,000 miles (1,600 km) off course and flying at an altitude of 41,600 feet (12,700 m), 5,000 feet (1,500 m) higher than its maximum certified ceiling.

The fighter pilots could not see anyone in the cockpit. The plane continued out over the Atlantic Ocean where it ran out of fuel, descended to 25,000 feet (7,600 m) and then entered a spin, crashing into the water.[9][10] The military pilots spotted some debris, but no wreckage was ever recovered. The bodies of Rein and pilot Lou Benscotter were never found. The most likely reason given was that the two men apparently lost consciousness due to slow depressurization of the cabin.

and

Quote:
A Lear 24B, N234CM, departed Memphis International Airport on December 16, 1988, heading for Addison, Texas with two crew aboard, including NASA astronaut-candidate Susan Reynolds.

After it flew past its destination, the aircraft was intercepted by an Air Force T-38 Talon from the 560th Flying Training Squadron at Randolph AFB, but the pilot was unable to contact the crew. He reported that the cockpit windows appeared to have frost on the inside.

The Lear entered Mexican airspace. After exhausting its fuel supply, it entered a spin and crashed near Cuatro Ciénegas in the northern state of Coahuila. The two pilots were killed.

speedbird128 · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:02 am

Quoting KIAS (Reply 171):
"It falls out of control to the height the pilot had set into the flight management system

If it was out of control how did it level off?

Finn350 · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:07 am

Quoting davidzill (Reply 100):
CNN reporting tonight that the FBI has ZERO forensic evidence of any pre-planned action by the pilots, other than the events leading up to to westward turn of the aircraft.

That is understandable considerning most of the 'forensic evidence' is most likely at the bottom of the southern Indian Ocean.

Finn350 · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:18 am

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 26):
Yes - I've been watching the eating dinner and SCREAMING AT THE TV for the last hour.

CNN has now published quite a good article about the flight plan programming that explains pretty well what might have happened

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/19/wo...lines-flight-path-change/index.htm

Quote:
Malaysia Airlines Flight 370: How do passenger jets change flight paths?

An airline dispatcher creates the flight plan. When the pilots arrive at the plane, their route is already set and programmed into the plane's flight management system.

A U.S. official told CNN that somebody programmed Flight 370 to fly off course. But it's unclear if that happened during the flight or before takeoff.

I am not sure anymore if they are sourcing from us or we from them or possibly both ways.

chaseus1 · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:18 am

Reference the depressurization theories....

Someone programmed the turn into the computer. Then they had the sign off with Malaysian ATC, prior to the actual turn. I would think if they were in an emergency situation, that ATC sign off would not have been so casual.

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:20:55]

Starlionblue · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:23 am

I was reading this about programming flight plans in the FMS. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/19/wo...t-path-change/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Quoting the article:
Programming waypoints into the flight management system of a Boeing 777-200 is "a task that would have been beyond the abilities of anyone but a professional pilot," according to Robert Goyer, the editor-in-chief of Flyingmagazine and a commercial jet rated pilot.

Since we are on FMS programming I'll throw in my €0.02 and say that the above is not a fair assesment. I know at least three people who don't even have pilot's licenses but who do know how to program an FMS. One of them could do it in his sleep. They do lots of simming. Add-ons like PMDG 737 have very accurate FMS models included for on-screen use and you can even buy hardware "sim-FMS" units for use with MS Flight Simulator and PMDG.

For that matter, I'm not a professional pilot but I know my way around an FMS well enough to program waypoints and understand the basics.

My point is that learning the basic use of an FMS is not somethingl that takes a huge amount of training, and it can be done at home with the PMDG tutorial and some relatively cheap software.

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:24:44]

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:25:27]

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:26:37]

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:27:12]

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:27:29]

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:29:13]

liquidair · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:30 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 174):

indeed, they had a BBC reporter yesterday perform a couple of inputs in a flight sim, it seemed very easy, albeit he was shown where to type.

press conference approaching.... Wonder if the Maldives sighting will be addressed?

if it turns out to be true- and there's multiple people saying the same thing, the timings would be all out of synch. It would make things even more confusing...

dragon-wings · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:30 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 174):
I don't think that's a fair assesment. I know at least three people who are don't even have pilot's licenses who know how to program an FMS. They do lots of simming. Add-ons like PMDG 737 have very accurate FMS models included.

This is true statement. I am not a pilot (and don't plan on becoming a pilot) and I know how to program a FMS. I am a flight simmer and learned it in about 1 week.

Dalavia · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:31 am

Today's press conference is underway now.

http://www.astroawani.com/videos/live

hiflyer · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:31 am

re hannity's general. Ok...the border between Pakistan and India is covered with all types of military radar equip from their continuing conflicts.. How ya gonna tipptytoe a 777 thru that? India would be off the wall in a heartbeat. Well connected they say? Mebbe in someone's mind. Besides...if you go thru the effort to get this aircraft why the heck would you take it into a region that is so highly observed from all sides? You would want to park it in some of the least watched areas of the planet...and that is the aircraft with the range to get there once refueled and excess weight removed. Oh yeah...remember why the bird is named BigFoot...6 main gear tires per side lightens the footprint for marginal surfaces.

tapir · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:31 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 174):

I already stopped believing experts after seeing a Boeing 777 disappearing for weeks and kids with stolen passport coolly going through immigration check point. They all were trained by experts, right?

Starlionblue · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:37 am

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 178):
Oh yeah...remember why the bird is named BigFoot...6 main gear tires per side lightens the footprint for marginal surfaces.

It does spread the load but if memory serves the pavement loading per wheel of the 777 is among the highest of any airliner. On a side note the 727-200 has a higher pavement loading per wheel than even the 777-300.

Quoting Tapir (Reply 179):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 174):

I already stopped believing experts after seeing a Boeing 777 disappearing for weeks and kids with stolen passport coolly going through immigration check point. They all were trained by experts, right?

True. It just annoys me a bit to see an actual pilot who should know better quoted.

Must learn to walk away.

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:39:07]

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:45:13]

RyanairGuru · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:39 am

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 178):
Ok...the border between Pakistan and India is covered with all types of military radar equip from their continuing conflicts.. How ya gonna tipptytoe a 777 thru that?

I agree. The chance of it getting into Pakistan without the Pakistanis and Indians noticing (or the United States for that matter) is just about zero.

Dalavia · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:39 am

In the press conference, it was repeatedly referred to as a 'search and rescue' operation.

It was confirmed that no way points has been entered for MH370 beyond IGARI to Beijing.

It was also said that some deletions have been make to the pilot's flight simulator and forensic experts are working to retrieve the deleted items.

He also said that radar findings have been supplied today by some other countries, but he is not at liberty to reveal the details.

Dalavia · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:44 am

The press conference confirmed that all countries have returned background checks on the passengers from their countries except for Russia and Ukraine.

The checks received revealed no basis for alarm.

SKAirbus · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:45 am

Quoting http://www.nrk.no/verden/sinte-parorende-ble-baret-ut-1.11615685:
Flere innbyggere på en liten maldivisk øy hevder å ha sett et lavtflygende stort fly morgenen etter at flight MH370 forsvant. Flere av dem har nå tatt kontakt med myndighetene, forteller NRKs korrespondent i Asia, Anders Magnus.

Maldivene ligger vest for leteområdet, sørvest for Sri Lanka, og landet er ikke blitt bedt om å delta i søket. Men øystaten er innenfor den rekkevidden man antar at flyet hadde.

Norwegian state broadcaster, NRK, states that a number of citizens of a small island in the Maldives claim to have seen a low-flying large aircraft the morning after MH370 disappeared. A number of them have now contacted the authorities.

The Maldives lie west of the search area, southwest of Sri Lanka and the country has not been asked to participate in the search. However, the island nation is within the assumed range of the aircraft.

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:47:44]

Dalavia · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:47 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 183):
Norwegian state broadcaster, NRK, states that a number of citizens of a small island in the Maldives claim to have seen a low-flying large aircraft the morning after MH370 disappeared. A number of them have now contacted the authorities.

The press conference currently underway said that the Maldives officials had been contacted, and those claims of sightings have now been dismissed.

Thunderboltdrgn · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:49 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 183):
Norwegian state broadcaster, NRK, states that a number of citizens of a small island in the Maldives claim to have seen a low-flying large aircraft the morning after MH370 disappeared. A number of them have now contacted the authorities.

The Maldivies lie west of the search area, southwest of Sri Lanka and the country has not been asked to participated in the search. However, the island nation is within the assumed range of the aircraft.

This was discussed yesterday but have been deemed as a non valid sighting.

"David KaminskiMorrow ‏@FlightDKM

Maldives sighting reports are "not true": Malaysian transport minister. #MH370
http://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/446218213005987840"

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:49:35]

SKAirbus · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:49 am

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 183):
The press conference currently underway said that the Maldives officials had been contacted, and those claims of sightings have now been dismissed.

I can't watch it as I am at work, so thanks.

It wouldn't surprise me if these people lived on the flight path into Male!

tomlee · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:49 am

The waypoint crossings are also not really confident info either. (They have gone beyond that) apparently.

Finn350 · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:49 am

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 180):
It was confirmed that no way points has been entered for MH370 beyond IGARI to Beijing.

So everything regarding ACARS, ADS-C and waypoint re-peogramming at least before losing the comms goes down the toilet? Argh, I can't stand these reporters supposedly having government sources and reporting totally inaccurate information.

Edit: or did they just confirm that it did not turn from the flight path before the comms were lost? That would be a totally different confirmation.

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:56:06]

Dalavia · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:53 am

The press conference has confirmed that the news reports that the plane turned left before the "Good night" transmission are not correct.

They repeatedly refused to answer whether the radar findings confirm the aircraft passed through the two way points on the western side of Malaysia. He said that the investigation has moved far beyond that, and the emphasis now was on finding the black box knowing that the aircraft had flown until about 8:11 am.

It was also said that the flight logs on the pilot's simulator had been cleared on 3rd February, and these logs are trying to be retrieved by forensic experts.

Overall, this was a much more informative press conference than several of the others.

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:54:38]

iberiadc852 · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:53 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 182):
The Maldivies lie west of the search area, southwest of Sri Lanka and the country has not been asked to participated in the search. However, the island nation is within the assumed range of the aircraft.

I said it before. Isn't much more probable an aircraft in another direction (fitting the data we already have) and flying low after having been told of the missing, trying to help, like supposedly some aircraft did for AF447?

tomlee · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:53 am

Simulator deletions, game log of the game cleared on in February. (That is one month ago)

[Edited 2014-03-19 02:53:51]

dragon-wings · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:53 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 185):
It wouldn't surprise me if these people lived on the flight path into Male!

Malaysia does fly to Male, so I would not be surprised if this was the case.

speedbird128 · Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:56 am

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 187):
So everything regarding ACARS, ADS-C and waypoint re-peogramming at least before losing the comms goes down the toilet? Argh, I can't stand these reporters supposedly having government sources and reporting totally inaccurate information.

I was skeptical about it the moment they started bandying about the ADS-C information. I wrote way back when why it was extremely unlikely they were using ADS-C at that point in time.

Everybody is (or is quoting) an "expert" and everybody is (or is quoting somebody) "close to the investigation". It's past the point of a being bad joke and I don't actually know what to call it now...

Everytime the media catches a whiff of something they run with it like a pack of wild rabid dogs. And then a.net gets hold of it and there's just no stopping anybody LOL!

Dalavia · Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:00 am

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 192):
I was skeptical about it the moment they started bandying about the ADS-C information. I wrote way back when why it was extremely unlikely they were using ADS-C at that point in time.

Being an amateur, I interpreted his words a little differently, I think.

I understood him to say that no points had been programmed between IGARI and Beijing.

I didn't take that necessarily to mean that no way points had been inserted later (i.e. while flying). I thought he was fairly specifically mentioning points to Beijing.

Others who were watching - please correct me if you have a different impression.

speedbird128 · Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:04 am

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 193):
Being an amateur, I interpreted his words a little differently, I think.

I understood him to say that no points had been programmed between IGARI and Beijing.

Was this from today's press conference? - I missed it unfortunately...

Because I was referring to several days back with the ADS-C lark started...

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 193):
I understood him to say that no points had been programmed between IGARI and Beijing.

I didn't take that necessarily to mean that no way points had been inserted later (i.e. while flying). I thought he was fairly specifically mentioning points to Beijing.

I'd like to know how they established that nothing was programmed after IGARI. Because usually the entire route is programmed before the engines turn...

liquidair · Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:05 am

So, from what I'm gleaning from your summaries- the pilot is now the main suspect?

read between the lines- they wouldn't release information about his flight sim deletions unless they wanted to cast doubt on his integrity.

with regards to the igari waypoint... Back in the first ir second thread, somebody mentioned that Vietnamese ATC sometimes offer a 'shortcut' if sorts through their airspace...

could this be a reason why there's nothing beyond there?

[Edited 2014-03-19 03:08:30]

Dalavia · Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:06 am

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 194):
Was this from today's press conference? - I missed it unfortunately...

Yes, the press conference that finished just a few minutes ago.

capri · Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:06 am

chaos at press conference, familes were stopeed talking to media, a huge chaos outside press room by skynews

capri · Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:08 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 195):
So, from what I'm gleaning from your summaries- the pilot is now the main suspect?

read between the lines- they wouldn't release information about his flight sim deletions unless they wanted to cast doubt on his integrity.

flight sim deletes automatically old files if you have auto save in it, i believe from memory 3 weeks to 1 month are automatically replaced by newer ones

flood · Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:09 am

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 180):
It was also said that some deletions have been make to the pilot's flight simulator and forensic experts are working to retrieve the deleted items.

At the end of the press conference he referred to the deletion of the game's data logs. I trust they're not only examining the installed flight sim but the entire PC to include browsing history, etc. For all we know, he was researching depth charts in the Indian Ocean.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 193):
I didn't take that necessarily to mean that no way points had been inserted later (i.e. while flying).

He wasn't very clear on this issue, but that's how I interpreted his words as well.

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