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Tbone354
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:08 pm

Howdy folks:

I am amazed at this thread or at least the length of it. I admit that I have not read all of it or even most of it. Who in Sam Hill could? Just what do you all find to talk so much about? Has there been any real news since this plane disappeared? Part 37 of this thread about what? The same old same old? Speculation, conjecture, theories, and so on. Sounds like the media. Nobody knows anything yet people cannot seem to slow down talking bout it. I will wait until some facts, any facts are learned. I do not deal in maybe, what if, perhaps, could have and what not. Do not get me wrong here. I do care and I am interested but I simply must wait until there is actually something learned and known for me to carry on.

Thank you all for your time,
Jim
 
Desh
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:13 pm

Just got this announcement via email from Tomnod. Someone in earlier threads (not sure when) had posted the overall coverage by Tomnod -

http://sendgrid.com/wf/webmail?rp=ZT...5sY2w5cFpDSTZORFF6TVRFNE5qazFNREI5

Wanted to see if it was any better than the last time ...

Thanks !
"History is merely a list of surprises. It can only prepare us to be surprised yet again." - Kurt Vonnegut
 
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N328KF
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:14 pm

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 119):

It would be useful to find out to compare the following.

The debris field size and density in an deep ocean crash in 3 scenarios.

1) An out of fuel aircraft in uncontrolled dive.

AF447 is the template here, right? It wasn't out of fuel, but it was stalled. Close enough.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
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Finn350
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:14 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 144):
That's not my quote. (The anet quote gremlin has struck again.)

Corrected   (It was the gremlin, not me)
 
William60
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:16 pm

Under one scenario, in which the pilot willingly re-directed the flight path...

From what little is known of the flight, what aspect would require simulator practice?

With 18,000 hours of flight experience, and I assume familiarity with the region,
What would require simulation exercises?

Apologies if this has been addressed.
 
David L
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:18 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 142):
One of the best pieces of advice I've ever been given is never attribute to malice that which adequately can be explained by stupidity. 

To add some perspective, that advice was also offered here about the French search for AF447. Many accused the French of being deliberately misleading and vague in the hope that it wouldn't be found in order to protect French interests. Others "defended" them rather patronisingly by saying we shouldn't expect them to be as capable as the Americans. There were certainly accusations of incompetence and when information was updated there were charges of backtracking and contradiction. And yet the job got done. Fortunately there were plenty of of more level-headed people to keep things on an even keel, including many from the USA, I should add. Nothing new here.
 
Pihero
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:19 pm

Reasonability check.
1/- The mass murdering pilot. Cold blood killing of 238 people, at least 20 of them being good friends - as Malaysian is not such a big airline, they know each other, certainly well within a fleet ?

2/- Hide and seek . Why climb to 45,000 ft if you want to be undetected ? Especially toward countries with equipment you can't know a lot about ( example is Thailand sure enough of their detection equipment that thgey have an ADIZ ).
The most logical mùanoeuvre would have been to co,tinue Noth-Eastward, dive to the waves level, and only then come back to the west.

Why shadow a scheduled airliner, knowing that any radar worthy of that name coud discriminate targets very close to each other ? Answer : fly just underneath...  ... Problem is the airliner above has a radio-altimeter which will react to an obstacle underneath closer than 2500 ft, well inside discrimination distance... Unless of course, the pilots of that aircraft would have been on the scheme... Right ?... That airliner's pilots would have noticed, as a synthetic voice call-out would have been made.

Why fly at 29,500 ft ? Your aircraft would have been painted like Xmas tree by any primary radar ?

3/- Sims and simmers are not pilots, bar exceptions. An airline pilot doesn't need fsf or its likjs to know how to fly. He/she doesn't need to practice landings on any strip : eyeballing is the name of the game and one only needs to integrate the peculiarities of said unusual strip : changed geometry due to narrow strip, length, slope... and, frankly, to think that fsf can teach yoiu that is asking a lot from that game... Unless he was practicing aircraft carrier landings... Were they many of those in the area ? Chinese ?.. US ?.. Indian ?.. there you have another conspiracy scenario   

4/- FMS and Waypoints... Better say MCDU and NAV. Why use official waypoints if you want to hide ? Much easier to input coordinates of one in the midle of the ocean and fly direct to it...or several of the same sort... Why ? Main reason is that airways tend to be busy with airliners and the risk of discovery is greater.

... We could go on and on... Enough for tonight...
Contrail designer
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:20 pm

Seeing that the missing airplane may have fallen on the south part of the Indian Ocean west of Australia and that is fairly south on the globe, if the debris is caught in the south indian current, eventually any debris will be found on the surrounding islands, continent, maybe even australia.

If the debris is caught in the transoceanic antarctic current.... we may never find anything.

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
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ssteve
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting Tbone354 (Reply 151):
Has there been any real news since this plane disappeared? Part 37 of this thread about what? The same old same old? Speculation, conjecture, theories, and so on. Sounds like the media. Nobody knows anything yet people cannot seem to slow down talking bout it. I will wait until some facts, any facts are learned. I do not deal in maybe, what if, perhaps, could have and what not. Do not get me wrong here. I do care and I am interested but I simply must wait until there is actually something learned and known for me to carry on.

Read the rcair1 updates. Reply #64 in this thread.
 
slinky09
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:24 pm

Has anyone seen any updates on the search in the southern Indian Ocean? The lack of debris is odd but then it is remote and a large area.

With AF447 debris was found within two days of the search as a comparison, although the last position was known.

As to the 777, I think about 11% is composites. With AF447 the vertical taie plane was largely composites, which is why it floated. Are there any large sections of the 777 that are composite (I know some of the tale plane is, but enough to float)? Just wondering if there are any likely large sections floating around IF it did ditch at the end of the southern arc.
 
rcair1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:26 pm

Quoting rwessel (Reply 143):
I'm losing track, which set of sats is being used for SATCOM on this particular aircraft?

It is in the sanity check - reply 64

Quoting hivue (Reply 145):
IIRC there are maps in rcair1's sanity check.

Yup

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 64):
Sanity Check
rcair1
 
FltAdmiralRitt
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:29 pm

Futherthing on the point below.

"It would be useful to find out to compare the following.

The debris field size and density in an deep ocean crash in 3 scenarios. "
( Which are posted in reply 119.)


If We assume a deliberate attempt by an suicidal agent to hide the A/C remains.
what offers the least floating debris. I say that a ditching the plane offers a smaller number of debris items.

Lets see what would float, assuming no major components of the aircraft are floating somewhere. assuming the
aircraft broke into 2-3 pieces.

1)some Luggage , I don't think most are meant to be ocean proof.
2)Fuel Spill. How long would that last in the ocean, a few days?
3) Seats (with poor souls strapped in ) There are bound to be some as the break up would cause detachments.
( I don't know if this combo would float or how long.)

4) Nearly empty sealed plastic containers items. (based on container ship incidents my money is on this being
the most persistent type of debris. Good luck in identifying from other junk in the ocean.
 
rcair1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:29 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 157):
... We could go on and on... Enough for tonight...

Nicely put.
rcair1
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:32 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 160):
Has anyone seen any updates on the search in the southern Indian Ocean? The lack of debris is odd but then it is remote and a large area.

With AF447 debris was found within two days of the search as a comparison, although the last position was known.

As to the 777, I think about 11% is composites. With AF447 the vertical taie plane was largely composites, which is why it floated. Are there any large sections of the 777 that are composite (I know some of the tale plane is, but enough to float)? Just wondering if there are any likely large sections floating around IF it did ditch at the end of the southern arc.

They have only really been searching for 1 day (2 now) and their initial search only covered 1/10th of what they wanted to search on the 2nd day of searching they are adding far more planes with more to come and commercial ships traversing the estimated search area. Since the final position isn't known it technically is possible to finish searching the area without finding anything. (Not to mention the northern area is still being searched as well) In my view there is nothing odd about them not finding anything as according to the AMSA it could take weeks to complete.

( https://www.amsa.gov.au/media/ ) that page seems to be updated frequently and has all the images, interviews, content you need.
 
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Finn350
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:41 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 157):
1/- The mass murdering pilot. Cold blood killing of 238 people, at least 20 of them being good friends - as Malaysian is not such a big airline, they know each other, certainly well within a fleet

It is possible he waited with his plan for a co-pilot which he didn't particularly like. I doubt he could know all or even most of the F/As.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 157):
2/- Hide and seek . Why climb to 45,000 ft if you want to be undetected ? Especially toward countries with equipment you can't know a lot about ( example is Thailand sure enough of their detection equipment that thgey have an ADIZ ).

The climb to 45,000 ft is not confirmed. If it is confirmed it is difficult to explain in any scenario, unless he wanted the passenger oxygen masks be ineffective.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 157):
Why use official waypoints if you want to hide ?

He might have thought that an aircraft flying official routes and waypoints without a transponder would look less suspicious to primary radars (just a malfunction) than an aircraft without a transponder flying outside the official routes. It is also possible that he depressurized the aircraft killing himself (and all the others) and the aircraft flew solely based on a pre-programmed route.

Everything above is just speculation.
 
AR385
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:42 pm

Quoting TheRedBAron (Reply 158):
Seeing that the missing airplane may have fallen on the south part of the Indian Ocean west of Australia and that is fairly south on the globe, if the debris is caught in the south indian current, eventually any debris will be found on the surrounding islands, continent, maybe even australia.

If the debris is caught in the transoceanic antarctic current.... we may never find anything.
Quoting tomlee (Reply 150):
Not sure usually that requires quite a bit of modelling (supercomputer time and ocean flow researchers) and knowledge of where the debris started and its nature. Without knowing where the debris field started or even is currently figuring out when debris might show up on coastlines isn't going to be very useful as it would be an estimate based on an estimate based on another estimate so is very likely to give wild variations in times.

Thanks to you both. Although I was of the opinion that some debris was bound to wash up on shore soon, I see that it might not be the case. Which at the same time, no debris washing up, does not indicate the plane did not crash into the ocean and landed somewhere.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:44 pm

Quoting TheRedBAron (Reply 158):
If the debris is caught in the transoceanic antarctic current.... we may never find anything.

This has been worrying me for many days .... but, I actually believe some wreckage will wash up on some coastline and will be discovered, eventually ... I hope that it is soon if, indeed, it's in the ocean ....
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:51 pm

The only islands that "might" get debris if caught in the transoceanic antarctic current are the kergelens and the Falklands/ Georgias.... MIGHT being the key word (and after a few months)

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
AR385
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:01 pm

Another question. Assuming:

One pilot did it.

How do you get rid of the other pilot?

1) The other pilot goes out for a bathroom break and the one left in the cockpit locks himself in. A la Ethiopian nut-case guy in Geneva.

2) One pilot kills the other

If 2:

1) How would one pilot kill another one within the confines of the cockpit?

2) If using a gun, how did the gun get on board? I´ve seen footage of the two pilots going through security at KUL. Could a plastic gun like those seen over the news made from a 3D printer been used?

3) What bullet would not (after hitting its primary objective) pierce the hull of the 777? damaging whomever knows how many wires and components. I recall that A320 that had an accidental discharge in the cockpit and the bullet exited the plane and there was a lot of damage along the trajectory of the projectile.

I haven´t seen these questions asked. If they have, I´m sorry.

[Edited 2014-03-19 13:14:52]
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:11 pm

This is the first day that I actually skimmed over all of the posts instead of reading and replying to each one in detail. Please, guys, read the fabulous "sanity check" post before posting. It is highly likely that what you are suggesting has already been suggested. I understand as aviators, professional or otherwise, or wannabes, we all want answers. Littering up the thread helps no one.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:11 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 169):
Could a plastic gun like those seen over the news made from a 3D printer been used?

A 3d printed gun is more likely to kill the shooter than the target. (They are pretty unreliable for guns, assuming you mean a pure 3d printed one which is highly likely to just explode in the shooter's hand)(And it is a material properties thing something you can't really get around with additive processes unless you use secondary mfg steps at which point your just making a regular gun using advanced mold making techniques)
 
iberiadc852
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:14 pm

About Tomnod:

How often they "refresh" images?
Do they store old images?

Sorry if this information is easy to find, but it doesn't seem to me.
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
 
Lindenwold
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:16 pm

Quoting iberiadc852 (Reply 172):

when you're browsing the maps, it tells you when the image was taken.
 
AR385
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:18 pm

Quoting tomlee (Reply 171):
A 3d printed gun is more likely to kill the shooter than the target. (They are pretty unreliable for guns, assuming you mean a pure 3d printed one which is highly likely to just explode in the shooter's hand)(And it is a material properties thing something you can't really get around with additive processes unless you use secondary mfg steps at which point your just making a regular gun using advanced mold making techniques)

Thank you. So how, if my assumptions are correct, and that is a big if, was one pilot gotten rid off? What are the possible scenarios of how that happened? Recalling the damage a projectile fired inside a cockpit can cause.
 
djm18
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:24 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 169):
Another question. Assuming:One pilot did it. How do you get rid of the other pilot?

I can think of two relatively simple ways to do this....

- The first would be to slip something in his drink

- The second is to sabotage his oxygen supply and then drepressurize the plane

I am sure there are other scenarios and clearly we are all here starved for facts at a time when then only newsworthy item is that the captain deleted some files from his home computer. Clearly, we are scrapping the bottom of the barrell and this will take weeks if not months to resolve.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting DJM18 (Reply 175):
I can think of two relatively simple ways to do this....

- The first would be to slip something in his drink

- The second is to sabotage his oxygen supply and then drepressurize the plane

Really?

Guys, they have an axe.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:28 pm

I really insist that nobody waste time on Tomnod. The imaged area is far too small, plus there's so much noise with people thinking container ships are wreckage. It's a huge waste of time. As someone in the software industry I totally believe in the whole crowdsourcing thing, don't get me wrong, but you just don't know what to look for and it's incredibly improbable that what you are looking for has been imaged.

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but believe me, you won't find the plane this way.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
Lindenwold
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:30 pm

BNN=Breaking News Network
 
AR385
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:32 pm

Quoting DJM18 (Reply 175):
I can think of two relatively simple ways to do this....

- The first would be to slip something in his drink

- The second is to sabotage his oxygen supply and then drepressurize the plane

I am sure there are other scenarios and clearly we are all here starved for facts at a time when then only newsworthy item is that the captain deleted some files from his home computer. Clearly, we are scrapping the bottom of the barrell and this will take weeks if not months to resolve.

Thank you.

Your first scenario on slipping something on the drink really does not work. There is a multiple of reasons, but it really is not possible to predict how an individual is going to react to a substance taken unknowingly that afffects the CNS. If anything, you could end up with the opposite effect and then you have an incontrollable pilot full of rage next to you.

Sabotaging his Oxygen supply and subsequently deppressurizing does sound very plausible (to me) so that one is an interesting idea.
 
iberiadc852
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:32 pm

Quoting Lindenwold (Reply 173):
Quoting iberiadc852 (Reply 172):
when you're browsing the maps, it tells you when the image was taken.

Thanks. And what about old images?. Do they exist?
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
 
AR385
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:34 pm

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 176):
Really?

Guys, they have an axe.

I appreciate the input but I find that very implausible due to the amount of confrontation it would entail in such a confined space, and the potential damage to the cockpit controls and systems that would ensue. Also, certain liquids resulting from such confrontation can, over a number of minutes, render electrical systems useless.
 
flexo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:38 pm

What I really don't get about the proposed Northern Corridor is that in order to get there you must fly over a couple relatively densely populated areas with corresponding cell phone coverage.
If the plane would have taken that route, wouldn't neccessarily be at least one forgotten-to-be-turned-off cell phones of a passenger have had to have contact to a cell phone tower? It seems impossible that not a single passenger left his cell phone turned on!

To me, this makes the northern corridor very unlikely!
 
Summa767
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:38 pm

On the matter of debris on the ocean, I don't think that a field of debris, if any at all may be found.

This incident appears to have some deliberate actions aimed at evading detection.
Why go to those lengths, and then crash the plane into the Ocean leaving a field of debris? If the aim was to remain undetectable, would a "softish" landing a la Sullenberger not seem more appropriate for the mission of disappearing a 777, whether as an act of terrorism or act of idiosyncrasy?
If successfully landed on the sea, how long would a 777 stay afloat? A couple of hours at the most? But it wold sink in one piece.
I am assuming that whoever did it, was not counting on the satellite "pings" that have narrowed to some extent the search area, though it is still massive.

I hope that search teams are using sonar and not just looking on the surface of the ocean.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:41 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 181):
I appreciate the input but I find that very implausible due to the amount of confrontation it would entail in such a confined space, and the potential damage to the cockpit controls and systems that would ensue. Also, certain liquids resulting from such confrontation can, over a number of minutes, render electrical systems useless.

What? Flight crew member gets up with some routine excuse, grabs the fire axe, does what he does. No damage to systems required. I'm just sayin', if you're looking for some sort of weapon in the cockpit, there's already one there.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:43 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 174):
Thank you. So how, if my assumptions are correct, and that is a big if, was one pilot gotten rid off? What are the possible scenarios of how that happened? Recalling the damage a projectile fired inside a cockpit can cause.

Blunt force trauma, stabbing, a regular makeshift gun, auto-injector with anything. A spoon/fork/spork, a usb cable, tape, ... anything really if you want to kill/incapacitate someone you can do it with anything including your bare hands no gun, no decompression needed.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:46 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 160):
With AF447 the vertical taie plane was largely composites, which is why it floated.

No, the AF447 verical tail main structure was made of CFRP composites which does not float. It floated due to trapped air pockets.

The 777 vertical tail is also made of CFRP, and it may float, or it may not float. To make it float two conditions must be met:
It separated from the fuselage, and air pockets are trapped inside. It may float for some time, then later sink as air pockets are washed out by ocean waves.

Quite substantial air pockets are needed since it also contains quite heavy machinery such as rudder hinges, control actuators, anti flutter balance weights, lightning protection, etc.

(Yes, I know this was covered some 30-35 threads ago).
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:47 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 183):
would a "softish" landing a la Sullenberger not seem more appropriate for the mission of disappearing a 777, whether as an act of terrorism or act of idiosyncrasy?

Just remember that "softish" landing in water are extremely rare. Even in that river landing situation it was not really a "soft" landing. Landing in open ocean waters with rough sea conditions and moderate to high winds would make a soft landing almost impossible. (It is still "possible" but it is very improbable and I don't think there have been any)
 
anstar
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:48 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 181):
I appreciate the input but I find that very implausible due to the amount of confrontation it would entail in such a confined space, and the potential damage to the cockpit controls and systems that would ensue

Perhaps, but if you think the flight crew usually have to be strapped in at all times when sitting at the controls.

So lets say the FO says he is getting up to go to the loo. the captain would still have his seatbelt on and the FO could crab the axe without much notice and then take out the captain pretty quickly I would imagine.
 
Spitfire
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:48 pm

Quoting na (Reply 121):
why the Malaysian military did not react in time when they detected an unknown plane overflying their territory all the way

Maybe like the Swiss Airforce ... they are operational only during office hours ...

[Edited 2014-03-19 13:49:43]

[Edited 2014-03-19 13:50:36]
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (15 years already , what a shame !! )
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:53 pm

Quoting tomlee (Reply 164):
They have only really been searching for 1 day (2 now) and their initial search only covered 1/10th of what they wanted to search on the 2nd day of searching they are adding far more planes with more to come and commercial ships traversing the estimated search area. Since the final position isn't known it technically is possible to finish searching the area without finding anything. (Not to mention the northern area is still being searched as well) In my view there is nothing odd about them not finding anything as according to the AMSA it could take weeks to complete.

( https://www.amsa.gov.au/media/ ) that page seems to be updated frequently and has all the images, interviews, content you need.

Thanks for the link tomlee, I checked it out and the search area map shows that they were planning to search an area that is 3200KM to the west of Perth, and south of that spot. I drew an approximation of the search area in the live map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b52c362966934 but it basically looks like this:



The yellow circle is a 3200 stat mile buffer on the approximate last contact (ACARS) and the red circle is a buffer on the 2970 Stat mile buffer on the approximate point of last radar contact. The top of their search area is near an intersection of these two circles. However, if the plane followed the course west over the Straits as we have been told then it seems like the top of their search area is at the very farthest possible range, or perhaps beyond the range of the fuel load.

Also, I added the Australia JORN Radar sites along with an estimated 3000 KM range polygon based onthe info in Wikipedia, and if it is correct it seems like the plane could have made it closer to Australia without being detected on radar...like closer to where the 2970 mile buffer from last radar contact (red line) intersects with the search from the satellate based calculations (Orange line)... just some thoughts...

SoCalGeo

[Edited 2014-03-19 13:55:07]
 
LTC8K6
Posts: 1587
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:36 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:04 pm

Can you just lock the other pilot out of the cockpit if he leaves?

If you do that though, you probably alert the passengers to the situation. They will likely figure out that the pilot is locked out.

[Edited 2014-03-19 14:05:44]
 
Mitico12
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:15 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:07 pm

General Tom McInerney, retired USAF, doubles down on the plane having landed in Pakistan.

Has this been discussed?

http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/03/19...uld-missing-plane-be-held-pakistan
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 191):
If you do that though, you probably alert the passengers to the situation. They will likely figure out that the pilot is locked out.

And I´m pretty sure in such case he would request the help of his passengers. And more than one, in that corner of the world, is bound to have a satellite phone.
 
ComeAndGo
Posts: 815
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:58 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:09 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 191):
Can you just lock the other pilot out of the cockpit if he leaves?

How about --> Both pilots are locked out of the cockpit & plane flies itself ?
 
65mustang
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:09 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 181):
I appreciate the input but I find that very implausible due to the amount of confrontation it would entail in such a confined space, and the potential damage to the cockpit controls and systems that would ensue. Also, certain liquids resulting from such confrontation can, over a number of minutes, render electrical systems useless.

Maybe this is what happened.
 
hamiltondaniel
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:40 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:14 pm

Quoting Mitico12 (Reply 192):
General Tom McInerney, retired USAF, doubles down on the plane having landed in Pakistan.

General Tom McInerny, retired USAF, spouts some scaremongering nonsense on Fox News...unprecedented!

Could the aircraft be in Pakistan? Well, it's remotely, remotely, remotely possible.

There are several much better explanations, and Gen. McInerny appears to want to get into a shooting war with Pakistan and doesn't seem too fond of backing up his claims, so I think I'm going to safely ignore his opinion.

If I am wrong I will gladly eat my shoe, but I hope I am not wrong because a) Pakistani involvement in this whole affair might lead to a war, and b) Shoes are altogether lacking in flavor.
 
William60
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:58 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:15 pm

CNN reporting Malaysian authorities have new radar data.
They cannot release the info because it came from another
country.

Could be confirmation of sorts the plane travelled along the
Southern arc.

If it indicates the plane actually went north, it will be a bizarre
Twist to say the least.
 
davidzill
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:26 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:19 pm

I think in the end something that never crossed anyone's minds is what occurred, and it may contain absolutely no malice on the part of the pilots.
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:19 pm

So I suppoose that if the theory that one pilot did it is true (big if)

Then:

1) No gun was used
2) He incapacitated the other one with either:
a)The axe
b)Another article that could impart severe trauma that it would result in death.

Though I still think that a confrontation within the cockpit with such articles would be pretty savage and bloody I suppose it might be plausible. Although I maintain that the sang froid required for doing such a thing is not easy to find in a normal, untrained person.

By the way. Another question: Howe long after take off is it fit for one of the two pilots to go to the bathroom?
 
flyenthu
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:37 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37

Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:21 pm

Just heard on CNN that the way points on radar after transponder went off appear to be systematic and software driven, rather than a human flying the plane in an emergency. If flown manually, the path would have been more erratic and less smooth.

Also, one of the guests (Weiss I believe) on Wolf Blitzer's show right now did not go with the flight plan change keyed in hypothesis. When questioned about the veracity of this information, WB mentioned that the source was a law enforcement personnel. I think they are questioning that angle.

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