MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 38

Womack17 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:36 am

HELP - How large is 24 meters?

k83713 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:37 am

Largest piece - 24 meters.

milestones787 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:37 am

One of the objects is 24 meters big. I have to assume there is a good chance that its from a 777.

jelliesR · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:37 am

Notes:

The AMSA is coordinating the southern corridor search with assistance from NZ and USA.
the centre received satellite imagery of objects possible related to MH370.
RCC Australia received an expert assessment this morning.
The images were captured by satellite.
Assessment was provided by the AGO as possible indication of debris south of the search area.
In the vicinity of the search area defined and searched.
further images are expected after commercial satellites are redirected.
4 aircraft directed to locate the objects.
An Orion arrived at 1:50pm this afternoon, with 3 more later today include a US Poseidon which should be on scene now.
All aircraft will be on scene by 8pm.
A C130 will drop data marker bouys to assist drift modelling.
A merchant ship will arrive at 6pm today alerted on monday.
A warship is some days away HMS Success.
AMSA will continue the search with all available ships and aircraft.
weather is moderate but there is poor visibility.
Indistinct objects. Reasonable size, awash with water. Large size. 24m in size. A smaller size. and a number of other in the "general area".

RyanairGuru · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:37 am

The questions was more useful that the press conference!

They're looking at objects about 24m in size, and "experts" have described them as "credible leads"

I get the sense, though, that this was AMSA wanting their moment in the sun. Sad.

DeltaMD90 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:38 am

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 151):
HELP - How large is 24 meters?

Seriously? Google it.

(1 meter is about 1 yard BTW)

RyanairGuru · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:38 am

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 151):
24 meters?

About 70 feet.

PanAm1971 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:38 am

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 151):
HELP - How large is 24 meters?

Would that be the size of a stabilizer?

tayser · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:38 am

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 151):
HELP - How large is 24 meters?

accroding to google, 78 feet https://www.google.com.au/search?q=24+metres+in+feet&oq=24+metres+in+feet&aqs=chrome..69i57.2272j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=2&es_sm=141&ie=UTF-8

Lindenwold · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:38 am

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 151):
24 meters

like 75feet?

[Edited 2014-03-19 21:39:26]

RyanairGuru · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:39 am

"It is credible enough to divert resources to this area"

SA7700 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:39 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 131):
Up until today I was giving the Malaysian Government the benefit of the doubt. But what they did today, dragging that distraught Chinese woman away with such force was pretty disgusting. Not only are they incompetent in investigating this event but also in treating people with respect and compassion.

Which unfortunately begs the question, how understanding can the Malaysian government really be when their Transport minister makes this statement:

"Hishammuddin Hussein, the acting transport minister, told the press briefing. "We do understand their concerns and are trying our very best. It's heart wrenching."

And then they drag away distraught family members? IMHO it is just not on...

Thanks and regards,

SA7700

Gatorman96 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:41 am

Quoting PanAm1971 (Reply 158):

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 151):
HELP - How large is 24 meters?

Would that be the size of a stabilizer?

From ground to top of vert stab is about 61 feet, so no unfortunately. But, length of both horizontal stabs is approx 70 feet

undertheradar · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:41 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 139):

were you expecting a buffet spread...a few drinks n nibbles perhaps...this has all eventuated in the last hour or so...

plus an object (size of at least 24metres length/width..whatever..plus other objects) spotted in the middle of this vast ocean....hmmmmmm

PanAm1971 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:42 am

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 163):
From ground to top of vert stab is about 61 feet, so no unfortunately. But, length of both horizontal stabs is approx 70 feet

Thank you. Good info.

Starlionblue · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:43 am

Quoting PanAm1971 (Reply 158):
Quoting Womack17 (Reply 151):
HELP - How large is 24 meters?

Would that be the size of a stabilizer?

The fin is about 8 meters. The horizontal stabilizer span is 21.5 meters, but AFAIK it is made in two pieces, not one.

The total length of a 777-200 is 63.7 meters.

Sourced from this very site: https://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=106

nm2582 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:43 am

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 151):
HELP - How large is 24 meters?

about 79 feet.

For reference, the horizontal stabilizer is approximately 71 feet wide (21.5 meters). So, if the object is truly 24 meters long, it's too big to be the horizontal stabilizer - but perhaps the satellite scaling measurement is not perfect (71 feet is within 10% of 79 feet).

Each wing (left and right) is approximately 25 meters from wing tip to root, so the size could be very very close to a 777 wing.

Starlionblue · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:45 am

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 168):
For reference, the horizontal stabilizer is approximately 71 feet wide (21.5 meters). So, if the object is truly 24 meters long, it's too big to be the horizontal stabilizer - but perhaps the satellite scaling measurement is not perfect (71 feet is within 10% of 79 feet).

The bigger problem is that AFAIK the stabilizer is not one piece going through the fuselage, but two separate pieces. Granted, it could still be attached to the tail.

jelliesR · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:48 am

The size and the *number of pieces in the same area* makes it "worth investigating".

if it is old random floating debris, it would be alone.

timothy31388 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:49 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 162):

The Malaysian Government is quite notorious for their extremely heavy handed approach towards all forms of protests, unfortunately.

edmountain · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:50 am

24m = too big to be an intermodal container tossed from a ship.

b777erj145 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:50 am

1500 miles SW of Perth, last statement was that weather is not very good there.

davs5032 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:52 am

It would seem unlikely to me that any part of the plane that large (24m) would be intact after such an impact with the ocean, but I don't really have much knowledge on how such a plane would breakup...

chaseus1 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:53 am

I think all of the landed in China, Myanmar, India, Pakistan, other stans, or Iran theories are about to be disproven.

Maybe sad for the families, as that was their only hope. But a relief maybe to know finally the result, if not yet knowing the cause.

Starlionblue · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:53 am

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 173):
It would seem unlikely to me that any part of the plane that large (24m) would be intact after such an impact with the ocean, but I don't really have much knowledge on how such a plane would breakup...

For all we know the plane could have made an attempted ditching or glided gently to the surface. In both cases large pieces are plausible.

ssteve · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:54 am

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 173):
It would seem unlikely to me that any part of the plane that large (24m) would be intact after such an impact with the ocean, but I don't really have much knowledge on how such a plane would breakup...

Could always be an evacuation slide.

jelliesR · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:55 am

Why are there two routes suggested by the NTSB?

PanAm1971 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:55 am

I guess no sleep tonight. They may release the sat pic in the next few hours.

undertheradar · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:57 am

i'll probably get abused for saying this.....but this AMSA press conference is by far the only press conference since the MH370 'disappearance' that has been focused on the task of FINDING the plane!!!....I stopped watching the Malay daily 'media circuses' a few days ago..

k83713 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:58 am

They said they would provide image shortly, but I would bet on the wing. If impact was hard though, it is likely to break given it to be wide and thin, but looking at how sure they are the object can be related to MH, I think wing, its shape, is really distinctive piece of airplane.

[Edited 2014-03-19 22:01:54]

mercure1 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:59 am

Quoting socalgeo (Reply 127):
The northern tip of the search area is the 3200 mile location that you are describing. I pulled this location from a Aus Govt SAR site that tomlee provided earlier today.

this was the bloomberg article w/ more precise fuel on board figures:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...k-on-analysis-using-fuel-data.html

"The Boeing 777 was carrying 49.1 metric tons (54.1 tons) of fuel when it departed Kuala Lumpur, for a total takeoff weight of 223.5 tons, according to Subang Jaya-based Malaysian Air."

LTC8K6 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:00 am

Given other sat pics we've seen, wouldn't a 777 wing be recognizable from those images?

socalgeo · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:01 am

He said 2500 KM SW of Perth right?

LTC8K6 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:01 am

Australian Broadcasting Corporation editor Jon Williams tweets: Crew on @USNavy P-8 spotter tell (ABC correspondent on board P-8) @WrightUps: "significant radar returns" coming from site where possible #MH370 objects spotted.
Tokyo Geoff is online now Reply

zeke · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:03 am

Quoting ciaran (Reply 149):

The debris was spotted by satellite initially and then confirmed by Orion

The objects have not been confirmed by the AP-3C.

Quoting jelliesR (Reply 154):
All aircraft will be on scene by 8pm.

Not true, first aircraft is about to leave the search area and RTB for a refuel, the USN P8 will take over for a while, it will then also need to RTB, then there will other assets continuously sent out.

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 162):
And then they drag away distraught family members? IMHO it is just not on...

Personally I do not have an issue with what has happened, there are even more families around the world wanting answers, and the only way that information is going to get to them in a timely fashion is by the media.

I have no problem with the family being present, there were 230+ other families also waiting for news.

asuflyer · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:04 am

One possibility is that the aircraft could have ran out of fuel, thus a crash impact with the sea would not necessarily be at a very high speed which could result in large pieces of aircraft wreckage.

rcair1 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:06 am

Just watched it on Fox - had Fox on 1 screen, CNN on another. As I figured - all the majors carried it.

Unfortunately - it is as I thought when I posted this.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 77):
hen - you ask, of course, "Why is he holding a press conference rather than waiting for confirmation."
The answer is that this is a huge international story and he feels it is important to show Australia is doing their part.

No real new data in the press conference compared to the announcement.
- 2 pieces of debris (slipped that there may be more - a feild)
- blobs
- 24m in size - but I've been an image quality expert for 20 years - you can go +/- 10% on that easy.
- May or may not be MH370
- In a location pointed at by NTSB
- Credible enough we must go check it.
- We will know when we know - could be 5 minutes, could be 5 days - this the nature of the beast.

Quoting Centre (Reply 121):
According to the Australian PM the RAAF Aircraft should have made contact with the "Two objects" by now.

No - the aircraft is IN THE AREA, not in contact. P3 Orion.
More tasked and on the way. Sounds like they have them staged to have continuous coverage till dark assuming 2hr loiter time.

They did not answer "when" the satellite photos were taken.

Summary -
This is a credible lead that must be checked. We are checking it. We will tell you more when we know it.

-rcair1

k83713 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:07 am

For Ethiopian, were wings more or less at one piece after ditching into ocean? If plane was gliding, could engine be detached at the water impact without breakage of the wing considerably?

[Edited 2014-03-19 22:07:40]

Finn350 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:07 am

Quoting jelliesR (Reply 177):
Why are there two routes suggested by the NTSB?

My understanding is that the routes are based on two different speed estimates for the plane with a constant southerly heading.

wxmeddler · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:08 am

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 187):

Exactly, if on AP, then the AP would do everything in it's power NOT to crash the plane. Thus having a lower G load and less of a "spattering" impact.

jelliesR · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:08 am

Will "flying with fish" tweet an apology on behalf of his source, if it turns out to be south.

Indy · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:08 am

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 167):
about 79 feet.

For reference, the horizontal stabilizer is approximately 71 feet wide (21.5 meters). So, if the object is truly 24 meters long, it's too big to be the horizontal stabilizer - but perhaps the satellite scaling measurement is not perfect (71 feet is within 10% of 79 feet).

Each wing (left and right) is approximately 25 meters from wing tip to root, so the size could be very very close to a 777 wing.

How large is an emergency slide on a 777? I'm guessing nowhere near that big but thought I'd check.

rcair1 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:09 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 185):
Australian Broadcasting Corporation editor Jon Williams tweets: Crew on @USNavy P-8 spotter tell (ABC correspondent on board P-8) @WrightUps: "significant radar returns" coming from site where possible #MH370 objects

Very interesting .

It would be very good to get visual on these and put the 'yes/no MH370' to bed quickly.

AR385 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:09 am

Quoting k83713 (Reply 189):
If plane was gliding, could engine be detached at the water impact without breakage of the wing considerably?

The engines are designed to detach without damaging the wing.

LTC8K6 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:09 am

Would you get radar returns from aircraft debris, as reported?

k83713 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:11 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 196):

P-3 has radar for metal parts, P-8 can notice any debris floating on the water.

[Edited 2014-03-19 22:11:57]

LTC8K6 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:15 am

Quoting k83713 (Reply 197):

The MAD, you mean?

They'd have to be over the debris.

I think they meant actual radar returns, not the magnetic detector.

boacvc10 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:15 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 185):
Australian Broadcasting Corporation editor Jon Williams tweets: Crew on @USNavy P-8 spotter tell (ABC correspondent on board P-8) @WrightUps: "significant radar returns" coming from site where possible #MH370 objects spotted.
Tokyo Geoff is online now Reply

Does the Aus. BC corporation editor have a live phone link to David Wright? He tweeted that all electronics have to be surrendered before his flight? Hopefully that is an encouraging sign !

spacecadet · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:16 am

Quoting k83713 (Reply 189):
For Ethiopian, were wings more or less at one piece after ditching into ocean?

More or less, and more than just wings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA5FMFVbVZ0

dank · Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:17 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 196):

Would you get radar returns from aircraft debris, as reported?

Both have radar. The P3 has MAD gear which the US P8s do not.

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