MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

SA7700 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:42 pm

Due to length part 39 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 40:

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 1 (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 29 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32 (by ManuCH Mar 17 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 17 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 34 (by SA7700 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35 (by SA7700 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 36 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37 (by SA7700 Mar 19 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 38 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 19 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 39 (by SA7700 Mar 20 2014 in Civil Aviation)

**********************************************************************************************

**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: What we know so far

MISSING MH370: Timeline

Flight MH370: Police focus on pilots as search for airliner goes on - live updates

Flight MH370: New timeline casts doubt on pilot deception theory

MISSING MH370: ACARS cannot be disabled

MISSING MH370: Search for missing aircraft above politics: Hishamuddin

***********************************************************************************************

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Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

SA7700

LTC8K6 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 248):

Swissair 111 was 21 minutes from the smell of smoke to impact. Can't see how we are going to compare that to MH370.

So hypoxic pilots programmed in 3 waypoints? Or pilots with a cockpit on fire programmed in three waypoints?

The plane didn't make weird meanderings, if the info we have is to be believed.

AR385 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:52 pm

I would like to make a request, with all due respect.

In the interest of making these threads a bit richer with info. can we talk more about the recent discovery by the ASMA? and the breaking news resulting from that? At least for today.

I don´t think at this stage we need to be writing stuff about "piano wire being used as a killing instrument in the cockpit" as if this were The Sopranos or that the plane is sitting in "Pakistan waiting for phase II" It just clutters the threads unnecessarily and makes it too hard to keep up.

Valid hypothesis sure, but things like the above...

Maybe we can retake The Soprano hypothesis and the 777-as-a-rocket once the ASMA discoveries turned up concrete leads, wether it is or it is not the plane.

I apologize if I come off as pedant.

nupogodi · Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:57 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
can we talk more about the recent discovery by the ASMA? and the breaking news resulting from that? At least for today.

Not much to talk about until daybreak, which should be in 3-something hours in Perth; aircraft might be en-route before that.

LTC8K6 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:59 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):

Well, I don't think they have discovered anything to talk about.

Have they?

All we have are the sat pics, which look basically like the other sat pics we have been looking at.

Finn350 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
Valid hypothesis sure, but things like the above...

The problem is that those two examples are valid hypotheses in this unprecedented incident.

decoder · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:12 pm

On a slightly brighter note, it seems like the prevailing currents are pushing the debris towards Australia, and not away from it.

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:13:22]

COEWR787 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:13 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 2):
The plane didn't make weird meanderings, if the info we have is to be believed.

Since none of us have cactually seen the path flown and have only heard various reports ranging from "they followed the waypoints exactly", to "they sort of went by the waypoints". I have no idea what to believe. So if someone wishes to believe one version of it and build theory upon it that is fine. But it does not make that theory any more valid than any other based on a different set of reports.

Ergo there really is no strong basis for discounting the fire theory. Similarly unfortunately there probably is no strong basis for discounting the rogue theory either purely based on the various reports of paths followed.

I know this sort of an inconclusive position is somewhat unsatisfactory. But sometimes that is the nature of reality that is obtained.

peterinlisbon · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:17 pm

I don't understand how the Maldivian sighting is just being ignored. A whole island full of people are saying they saw the plane flying low at exactly the right time and as the government just says "we didn't see it on radar" aand that's the end of it.

Kaiarahi · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:21 pm

Search aircraft will depart YPEA at 2130Z, which would put them (P-3s) in the search area around 0130Z. In other words, no news until after 2130EDT, when they reach the search zone.

Kaiarahi · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:23 pm

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 10):
I don't understand how the Maldivian sighting is just being ignored.

Because it's physically impossible for it to have been there (fuel). Read the previous couple of threads.

canoecarrier · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:25 pm

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 4):
Not much to talk about until daybreak, which should be in 3-something hours in Perth; aircraft might be en-route before that.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 5):
Well, I don't think they have discovered anything to talk about.

I think that's his point. This thread would be a little easier to keep up with if it didn't generate 2-3 additional parts a day. Based on what we know and the fact that nearly all hypotheses have been discussed here ad nauseam already, I'm not sure quantity of posts is better than quality at this point.

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:28:35]

speedbird128 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:27 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
I would like to make a request, with all due respect.

And I would like to back that...

We've had 39 threads of unadulterated no-holds-barred-never-seen-before-hypotheses-and-conspiracies-and-everything-inbetween.

Here's a sobering thought - lets not forget that there are 239 *people*, that are missing. Souls out there. Its not just 5 letters and numbers (MH370). That is the subject of all this speculation.

The only 'fact' is its still missing. And beating on the crew or whoever, to be brutally honest, is wearing thin. I know I don't have to read it (I am here out of my own will, bringing with me the technical goodies behind ATC and SMC), but could we respect these missing human beings a little more?

Some here will be right and some here be wrong. But I doubt now that anything could be added in respect of speculation that hasn't repeatedly come up in the previous 39 threads... And wading through chemistry discussions is a waste of time.

Thanks go out to RCAIR1 for his daily sanity check/collation of the current information whether it be debunked or valid.

akberc · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:27 pm

Quoting BoeingBear (Reply 255):
From Reply 255 in Thread 39: In case you haven't heard, earlier this week the Israeli government massively extended its ADIZ to something like a 2.5-hour range from its airspace. Do you think that's just a coincidence?
lves out.

Maybe not a co-incidence, just prudence. However, most likely not based on a confirmed imminent attack from 9M-MRO. The news told us that Israel conducted an air strike on Syria yesterday, so it is logical to put up one's air defences when breaching another country's airspace as any attack from the other country during the attack would be justified self-defence.

LTC8K6 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:28 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 11):
Search aircraft will depart YPEA at 2130Z, which would put them (P-3s) in the search area around 0130Z. In other words, no news until after 2130EDT, when they reach the search zone.

That's way too long. Tell them to hurry up...

EDIT: I should clarify that this was supposed to be funny.

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:33:15]

JimJupiter · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:29 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
In the interest of making these threads a bit richer with info. can we talk more about the recent discovery by the ASMA? and the breaking news resulting from that? At least for today.

I want to post this link again, sombeody else posted it late in thread #39:

http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/e...1en/img/map_strategic_passages.png

For the "no way nobody sees this in 12 days, it's a cover up!" crowd. Please, spot the location of todays search area and estimate, how much ship (and air, for that matter) traffic the area down there ususally sees.

namezero111111 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:29 pm

On another note:

Does anyone else find the AMSA coverage detail / information provided to be exceptional?
Compared to what we were getting at the Malaysian press conferences, I think Australia's transparency is nothing short of stellar.

LTC8K6 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:30 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 13):
I think that's his point. This thread would be a little easier to keep up with if it didn't generate 2-3 additional parts a day. Based on what we know and the fact that nearly all theories have been discussed here ad nauseam already, I'm not sure quantity of posts is better than quality at this point.

True. A lot of posts are repeats as well. I try to keep up and not post what's already been covered.

rcair has done a great job.

Perhaps the mods could close the thread until an hour before news is expected from down under?

flyzapper · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:32 pm

Regarding the debris ~1500 miles from Perth, I did some research about surface currents in the Indian Ocean and the direction of the currents. If the plane crashed 12 days ago, the debris could have drifted 150-300 miles NE towards Australia using conservative numbers, over 500 miles using faster currents and drift speeds. Let's use 250 miles as a good guess. Would the current location of the debris and the back-extrapolated crash point of 250 miles SW of the current location put the possible crash location outside of the south corridor of possible last locations?

laddb · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:36 pm

Quoting namezero111111 (Reply 18):
Does anyone else find the AMSA coverage detail / information provided to be exceptional?

Yes. They are very professional and have shared their information.

DTWPurserBoy · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:38 pm

I think the saddest thing about this disaster is that we may never know exactly what happened. It is entirely possible the wreckage will never be found and even if it is, any pilot that took the time to disable the transponders and ACARS would know to pull the breakers for the CVR and FDR. Even if the boxes are found I fear they will be useless. If portions of the cockpit are recovered it may be possible to learn from the settings of various breakers and instruments what happened but at these depths I have serious doubts. This is an awful result for the families and loved ones involved, not knowing where their loved one is resting and why. My heart goes out to them and the thousands of good, decent, professional MAS employees worldwide that are experiencing their own special horror.

dtw2hyd · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:42 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
can we talk more about the recent discovery by the ASMA? and the breaking news resulting from that? At least for today.

Ok, staying on theory of the day, one question. Would search planes start at day break or reach site by day break?

Also, I think no head of the country (any country) should make any statements about this event. This is not a great PR event.

JoeinTX · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:44 pm

@DTWPB

I agree. the longer we go from the original act the chances of making real determination about what transpired aboard that airplane diminish. Even if he/they/whoever did not turn off the CVR that fact that the flight carried on for several more hours means that whatever happened in the cockpit (struggle, coordinated effort, "bang")when the aircraft made it's initial westward course change will likely never be known.

LTC8K6 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:46 pm

I do not think they will find anything, mainly because I don't think the pictures show any debris.

But I am not a photo analyst, and I certainly hope they find the plane.

SA7700 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:46 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 19):
Perhaps the mods could close the thread until an hour before news is expected from down under?

Thanks for the suggestion.

Unfortunately that is not a viable option as all the moderators are located in different time zones and not necessarily on duty on a 24/7 basis. Due to fact that we perform our moderating duties during our own spare time, it may happen that we miss a news conference or media release, which would lead to chaos in the forums should the main thread be locked.

Thanks and regards,

SA7700

Kaiarahi · Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:48 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 23):
Would search planes start at day break or reach site by day break?

Reach the site.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 16):
That's way too long. Tell them to hurry up...

Friggin time zones! Obviously they were invented to continue concealing evidence from the public .... And it may be long after 0130Z that there is any news - the P-3s can remain on station for 6+ hours at that range from base. The P-8 has less endurance, which is why it was designed for refueling, but the refueling capability has not yet been implemented.

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:53:51]

huxrules · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:04 pm

Well I can see either a bomb or super rapid fire causing the comms issue (one in a million comms issue). Pilots programmed a turn back and the plane did as was required. As for the 45000 ft climb - not sure if it's really real. If it is possibly the pilots were just disoriented. Plane settles and makes the turn and possibly was programmed to head south to any of the runways in Malaysia. But the pilots don't have control and the plane keeps on flying south. I don't know why they aren't looking at the first area of trouble - anything could be in that water. A cargo door or any part of the aircraft would blow the investigation wide open.

katekebo · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:04 pm

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but The Sydney Morning Herald says that the images shared by Australian officials were actually taken by a US satellite and given to the Australians by American intelligence sources.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/missi...arch-for-mh370-20140320-355zt.html

Quote:
When the Australian official took the podium to explain to reporters the discovery of satellite images that might show pieces of MH370, he carefully omitted to tell them the source.
The images were from a US satellite.

kevinkevin · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:06 pm

I'm hoping this is the breakthrough we need. I'm praying.

David L · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:10 pm

Quoting huxrules (Reply 28):
I don't know why they aren't looking at the first area of trouble

Where have you been for the last week and a half?

LTC8K6 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:11 pm

Okay, so the P-8A radar contacts were a freighter and two dolphin pods?

David Wright ABC News reporter:

tweets: Nada today - except for a freighter and 2 pods of dolphins. They'll be back out tomorrow - eager to provide answers to those families #MH370

David Wright ABC News reporter

tweets: Alas our 9 hour trip aboard the P8 - including 3 hours of intensive searching did NOT turn up any evidence of debris...

Here is the British coastal survey ship HMS Echo, which will be joining the southern part of the search for the missing Malaysia Airlines plane

65mustang · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:12 pm

Do you recognize the airport on the screen of the pilots simulator shown in this photo? It looks like Polonia International or maybe Phuket doesn't it?

spacecadet · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:13 pm

Quoting JoeinTX (Reply 24):
Even if he/they/whoever did not turn off the CVR that fact that the flight carried on for several more hours means that whatever happened in the cockpit (struggle, coordinated effort, "bang")when the aircraft made it's initial westward course change will likely never be known.

The DFDR records 25 hours of data. The CVR records 2. The CVR wouldn't have anything on it from the initial turn west, but it would have plenty to tell investigators. For example, no sounds at all until fuel starvation would indicate pilot incapacitation. Or maybe the pilot or pilots did say something in the last two hours, indicating they were in control. Maybe the pilot's arguing with a bunch of hijackers about how they're going to run out of fuel. All of those things will be on the recording medium, and any of them will help the investigation.

The DFDR records more than 100 parameters, IIRC, and will answer many questions about exactly what movements the airplane made and how they were made (manually, auto-pilot, whether they were abrupt and amateurish or more like a professional pilot, etc.). It will also more or less rule in or out any mechanical problem. If there was a mechanical issue, it would be recorded as an anomaly on the DFDR. I'm not sure if fire can be deduced directly, but it sure can be indirectly. And if the wreckage is found, it can also be deduced directly. Fire leaves pretty obvious evidence, whether it's underwater for 12 days or 12 years.

If they find the plane, they will know what happened. It doesn't really matter how long it takes.

Kaiarahi · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:18 pm

Quoting 65mustang (Reply 33):

It doesn't look anything like either of them, unless they've expanded incredibly in the last few months.

redflyer · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:19 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 25):
I do not think they will find anything, mainly because I don't think the pictures show any debris.

I agree, I'm not sure it's debris from MH370. But, then again, I'm not a photo analyst either. I will say, though, that for an object that is 24m in length, and appears to be about 10m wide, it sure seems awful "boxy" looking with sharp corners on the one end. What from a 777 would be that size (24m x ~10m) AND float for 13 days?

Unless, of course...

Quoting katekebo (Reply 29):
The Sydney Morning Herald says that the images shared by Australian officials were actually taken by a US satellite and given to the Australians by American intelligence sources.

...What the Aussies are seeing is a high resolution and close-up photo of the object that lets them determine with a fair amount of certainty that it's from the 777, and the photo they are sharing with the rest of the world is a dumb'd down version of it which doesn't allow the rest of us commoners to make sense of it.

Trin · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:24 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 34):
The DFDR records 25 hours of data. The CVR records 2. The CVR wouldn't have anything on it from the initial turn west, but it would have plenty to tell investigators. For example, no sounds at all until fuel starvation would indicate pilot incapacitation. Or maybe the pilot or pilots did say something in the last two hours, indicating they were in control. Maybe the pilot's arguing with a bunch of hijackers about how they're going to run out of fuel. All of those things will be on the recording medium, and any of them will help the investigation.

Exactly. A two-hour long CVR recording will be priceless and anybody who asserts otherwise is just burying their head in the sand. Whether something or nothing was said in that two hours, we will know what happened. That, matched up with the DFDR data will provide invaluable data as they piece together this sorry journey.

Finn350 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:27 pm

Quoting katekebo (Reply 29):
Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but The Sydney Morning Herald says that the images shared by Australian officials were actually taken by a US satellite and given to the Australians by American intelligence sources.

Either Sydney Morning Herald or ABC News is reporting incorrectly. ABC News claims that the images were taken by a DigitalGlobe commercial satellite and they provided the pictures to Australia. That is backed by the images having DigitalGlobe copyright as earlier reported in this thread. I don't believe that there exists both military and commercial versions of these images.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/colorados-d...-airlines-search/story?id=22988405

Quote:
"We can confirm that DigitalGlobe has provided imagery to search officials in Australia, and we have been informed by an Australian government official that it was our imagery Prime Minister Abbott referred to in his recent comments," a spokesman for the company said.

Gonzalo · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:29 pm

Please excuse my ignorance, but I was listening that due to the very far location of the debris off the Australian coast, the time for actual searching for the Orions will be no more than 2 hours.... Doesn't the RAAF have some useful aircraft ( not necessarily Orions ) capable to refuel in flight and stay searching for more time ? Or are they sending a string of Orions to make a serial search covering all the daylight time?

Thanks in advance.

Rgds.
G.

[Edited 2014-03-20 13:31:52]

JoeinTX · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:34 pm

@34

Good info. Good to know there'll be something recorded to examine if it's discovered.

Kaiarahi · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:37 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 39):
the time for actual searching for the Orions will be no more tan 2 hours

P-3s (depending on the model) have about 16 hours endurance. Flight time to the search area from YPEA is approximately 4 hours, depending on winds, so they should have 6+ hours on station.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 39):
Doesn't the RAAF have some useful aircraft ( not necessarily Orions ) capable to refuel in flight and stay searching for more time ?

P-3s are specifically designed for surface and underwater search and reconnaissance. It wouldn't make sense to use less capable aircraft.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 38):
Either Sydney Morning Herald or ABC News is reporting incorrectly.

They're not necessarily incompatible. SMH just reported a U.S. satellite, not a U.S. military satellite. DigitalGlobe is a U.S. company.

namezero111111 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:37 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 39):
Or are they sending a string of Orions to make a serial search covering all the daylight time?

There are 4 aircraft involved in this search.
Two Australian planes, one from New Zealand, and one American plane.
Afaik two P3's, one P8, and a C130.

[Edited 2014-03-20 13:39:27]

[Edited 2014-03-20 13:41:22]

turjo101 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:40 pm

Those who are still going on about tribal areas of Pakistan - are completely disregarding common sense...Consider the following before bringing up Pakistan again.

1) To get to tribal areas of Pakistan, they'd have to either go over India or around India (ladder would not be possible due to fuel restriction) - and either way the Indian military radar is definitely going to pick this up and not let it slide if an unidentified aircraft was breaching its airspace. they have enough resources to dispatch to investigate. They got almost two hundred SU30 MKIs, if not the Mig 29s, Mirage 2000s or the HAL Tejas fighters.

2) If somehow the plane did go around India (undetected and unchallenged), then why would Pakistan let it into its airspace ?!? Although not in war mode - I think they are keeping a close eye on their radars to ensure nothing from the inventory mentioned above tries to get into its airspace. They also have resources to dispatch in order to investigate (F16s, JF 17s, Mirage IIIs, Vs, and F7s). So why would they let an unidentified aircraft get through, when it can easily belong to India.

3) If the Pakistanis were in on this, you have to keep in mind - large number of them would have to know about this. Civilian and military ATC personnel. How likely is it that one of them would have leaked something anonymously from a net cafe somewhere.

4) Where would it land in the tribal areas without anyone knowing or seeing it since? What airstrip is there in Pakistan that could allow a 777 to land and then remain undetected?

In summary - Pakistan, Iran are highly unlikely as they would be keeping an eye on their air space - and if they were somehow in on this - the India and US was certainly keeping an eye on that stretch of airspace. So if this plane did get to Iran-Afghanistan-Pakistan area, more than one government would have had to be complicit.

flyingturtle · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:43 pm

Quoting 65mustang (Reply 33):

I've tried to enhance these pictures:

left pane:

http://i60.tinypic.com/2hf48p4.jpg

middle pane:

http://i58.tinypic.com/jzjf5u.jpg

Excuse me for the lack of quality.

David

katekebo · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:43 pm

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 38):
Either Sydney Morning Herald or ABC News is reporting incorrectly. ABC News claims that the images were taken by a DigitalGlobe commercial satellite and they provided the pictures to Australia. That is backed by the images having DigitalGlobe copyright as earlier reported in this thread. I don't believe that there exists both military and commercial versions of these images.

Well, I think both could be right. The pictures shown to the public may not be the same they used to identify the debris. If you look at the pictures shown to the public (presumably from DigitalGlobe) it's really hard to tell if the suspected objects look like rests / parts of an airplane. I doubt the Australian will come out publicly based on such a weak evidence. They may have other pictures, taken by US intelligence satellites, which provide more convincing evidence, but they are classified and will not be disclosed to the public.

Finn350 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:44 pm

Quoting :
They're not necessarily incompatible. SMH just reported a U.S. satellite, not a U.S. military satellite. DigitalGlobe is a U.S. company.

Yes, but quoting the SMH article:

Quote:
The images were from a US satellite. The Australian Maritime Safety Authority's John Young didn't mention this to the media. Nor was he asked. But he wouldn't have disclosed it in any case.

And quoting member katekebo:

Quoting katekebo (Reply 29):
...the images shared by Australian officials were actually taken by a US satellite and given to the Australians by American intelligence sources.

To me it sounds like the reporter cooked up the story.

[Edited 2014-03-20 13:45:37]

[Edited 2014-03-20 13:53:16]

[Edited 2014-03-20 13:56:28]

Kaiarahi · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:44 pm

Quoting namezero111111 (Reply 42):
Afaik two P3's, one P8, and a C130.

2 RAAF P-3s, 1 RNZAF P-3, 1 USAF P-8. An RAAF C-130 was used yesterday to drop marker buoys (to calculate drift), but I don't know if it will be used today.

k83713 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:48 pm

Quoting 65mustang (Reply 33):

It's Amsterdam Schiphol.
https://goo.gl/maps/fj02P

[Edited 2014-03-20 13:49:28]

[Edited 2014-03-20 13:56:45]

namezero111111 · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:50 pm

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 46):
Quoting namezero111111 (Reply 42):
They're not necessarily incompatible. SMH just reported a U.S. satellite, not a U.S. military satellite. DigitalGlobe is a U.S. company.

Yes, but quoting the SMH article:

I surmise you meant to quote Post 41, as I never said that..

anstar · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:51 pm

Quoting huxrules (Reply 28):

Well I can see either a bomb or super rapid fire causing the comms issue (one in a million comms issue). Pilots programmed a turn back and the plane did as was required.

If it were a bomb or fire, I doubt the aircraft would have flown for 7 hours + to reach the Indian Ocean search area.

huxrules · Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:52 pm

Quoting 65mustang (Reply 33):
Do you recognize the airport on the screen of the pilots simulator shown in this photo? It looks like Polonia International or maybe Phuket doesn't it?

I think it is AMS.

Quoting David L (Reply 31):
Where have you been for the last week and a half?

I should clarify- They need to look UNDERWATER for clues at the IGARI intersection. Something heavy could have fallen off (or been blown off) that sunk.

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