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LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:07 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 210):
The last ADS-B transmission, shown on FlightRadar24, shows a path of 25 degrees

No, FR24 shows 25 then 28, then 40 as the last three headings.

40 is the last FR24 heading, which matches the normal flight path.
 
GZed
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:13 am

Hi all,
I need to ask a question about the images we see on the news showing the two possible location areas in an arc around the satellite that picked up the transmissions from the engines.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but those drawings only represent the final ping from the engines. i.e. the distance from the satellite at the last ping, and the arc distance away from the starting point is based on fuel load.

If so then the authorities know that the Jet could have flown around in circles for 5 hours then crashed – hence the arcs starting at the approx last know location of the phone. Or it could have flown the maximum distance in a straight line, or anything in between.

It’s also my understanding that the engines sent information to the satellite every 30mins, is that correct?

If the answer is yes, then what was the planes distance to the satellite at each of the 30min transmissions from the engines? This is crucial information. Has this information been released?

Regards,
Mark
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:17 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 209):
Are you saying the only alternate to your 'calling the other pilot to shadow him and land in Pakistan and Pakistan hasn't made this landing public yet/it was undetected theory' is the plane caught on fire and flew for 6.6 hours?

No. I am just saying, to quote your words, that if a slight twist to an already existing theory is underpinned by a "baseless assumption" based on possible new information, then so are most of the other theories, such as the fire theory (I didn't want to list all of the theories underpinned by baseless assumptions, especially the one about the plane flying into outer space)  

If the Captain made a call just before takeoff, it could have been to anybody. And, if the Captain was part of a plot, then the phone call could have been to somebody else involved. That is all.
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my787
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:30 am

Quoting KIAS (Reply 202):
Lastly, since I'm still quite interested in the hypoxia angle (considering it's happened before with sudden loss of communication from flight crew, from Payne Stewart's Learjet to several other examples) folks may want to take a look at this video: http://youtu.be/ZpLi67NdD4w

I too think the hypoxia theory is quite plausible. Thing is, once flame out occurs... if plane hits land = ELT signal. If plane hits water = DFR pings. Hard to reconcile.
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hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:32 am

Quoting GZed (Reply 213):
It’s also my understanding that the engines sent information to the satellite every 30mins, is that correct?

No. See rcair1's sanity check for details on the SATCOM pings.
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hh65man
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:34 am

@ KIAS,
that was a good video to post. I've been through the High Altitude Chamber before and experienced the same thing. It doesn't take long for it to happen.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:46 am

Quoting my787 (Reply 217):
Thing is, once flame out occurs... if plane hits land = ELT signal. If plane hits water = DFR pings. Hard to reconcile.

Not hearing the ELT signal or the FDR ping reconciles very nicely with them being at the bottom of the Indian Ocean.

[Edited 2014-03-20 19:46:36]
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LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:46 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IqWal_EmBg

Another good hypoxia illustration...
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:49 am

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=367_1395328940

Interesting and feasible theory, combine that with a fire that was eventually extinguished, and pilots disabled by smoke inhalation. Then the aircraft just kept flying until it ran out of fuel.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:50 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 189):
If the Captain did make a call, which has not yet been confirmed, perhaps he knew and contacted a pilot on the flight he intended to shadow to check if it would be on time... Just another 'twist' on this theory... If a pilot was involved and planned to shadow another jet, maybe a pilot of the other jet was involved. Or, maybe he called somebody at his destination to get the green light...

A more likely scenario is that he was been calling a family member or a friend and telling them he'd be back in a couple of days. Pilots, like any kind other traveler, often make calls from the airport.

[Edited 2014-03-20 19:59:12]
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KIAS
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:50 am

Was the garbled transmission picked up by another flight after MH370 signed off ruled out as misinformation?
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:51 am

I've commented from the beginning that IMO MH370, after the transponder, comms., etc. were reported to have been purposely shut off prior to IGARI WP, that the flight was then purposely diverted West, and flew a purposeful flight path to avoid primary radar. This was proven by Malasian military radar and the acars ping handshake data, and then flew a flight path from IGARI to VAMPI to GIVAL and then IGREX.

After IGREX I still maintain that the likely flight path (to continue to avoid primary radar surveillance) was direct to the Maldives Islands area, where there are at least 2 airports with runways that can handle a B777-200.

Many have asserted that MH 370, loaded with fuel for a 5.5-5.75 hour flight to Beijing and likely carrying 45-60 minutes reserve fuel wouldn't have had the fuel to make it to the Maldives. That is not accurate by total NM flight distance from WMKK to the Maldives following the waypoints reported, normal TAS, the fact that the winds aloft were relatively low, etc. MH370 could have easily made it to the Maldives area.

Many individuals/locals in Maldives reported a large aircraft flying an unusual low altitude at the approximate time that MH370 could have made it there, but these accounts have been discounted by the media commentators with the excuse that local observers most often report incorrect observations. I don't buy the media's assertions.

I commented that this flight would likely not have flown North due to primary military radar coverage in the entire North corridor (India, Pakistan, US Afghanistan, China, Viet Nam, etc.) although many media commentators were pushing the went-North scenario which IMO also defied logic.

The media commentators then speculated that MH370 then flew to match a reported satellite arc point S of Australia. I didn't buy that either, as USA Naval Base Diego Garcia stands right in the middle of the Indian Ocean with enormous military radar, etc. capability and range, with absolute certainty of fighter interception with a plane (object) picked up on primary radar and not painting a transponder signature in that area.

So, I still maintain that MH370 likely did fly to the Maldives area and that the reports by locals of seeing that aircraft were likely accurate . Whether the currently reported satellite data showing suspected debris is MH370, IMO is a 50/50 chance, and if it is, it is likely the result of oceanic movement to the South from a potential crash (for some reason) location South or East of the Maldives area yet out of range of Diego Garcia...IF MH370 really did crash.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:51 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 163):
This plane was built 11 years ago, well before flash memory became cheap. Older recorders did not even use flash memory because, as you say, it was insanely expensive. They used magnetic tape. And magnetic tape might well be quite cheap still. My point is that making recorders did not suddenly become much cheaper because flash memory has become cheaper because they were using an entirely different technology.

Probably isn't feasible (due to the impact/temp/etc...) requirements but LTO-6 (Linear Tape-Open) data tapes can store 2.5 Terabytes of data (You could probably just keep recording for quite some time). (The drive is a few thousand dollars though and I highly doubt LTO is meant to operate in an airplane even in normal conditions)

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 201):
Dunno. But getting carriers to agree to AHM over SATCOM on international flights is an idea with far less friction than the ridiculous "full downlink of CVR/FDR" idea that person was floating.

It's far more realistic in the short-term, anyway, but it wouldn't save any lives in the case of a deliberate act...

Which is why the ELT mod of mine you mentioned would help in all those cases and with 24+ hours of battery life it would work in basically every case intentional or not. Adding capacity to the 406 network isn't too difficult (They can piggy back off LEO, MEO, GEO sats) either and with a little bit of thinking you can cut down the unnecessary automatic test messages by a order of magnitude to only detect unusual planes which are not going to be every plane in flight.

Mandating ACARS for safety doesn't make sense if it can be so easily turned off or disabled and it doesn't have independent power and costs money to use.

Quoting my787 (Reply 217):
I too think the hypoxia theory is quite plausible. Thing is, once flame out occurs... if plane hits land = ELT signal. If plane hits water = DFR pings. Hard to reconcile.

The plane hitting land/water doesn't mean the ELT will work (Especially for a commercial jet airliner). And the plane hitting water the ULB activation is not detectable unless your basically on top of it with sonar (no sat monitoring).

Edit: the other problem with ACARS for tracking is someone needs to be watching for unusual data while an ELT in special test mode would be far more obvious and a push type emergency rather than requiring someone to be looking at some maintenance data.

[Edited 2014-03-20 19:53:48]
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:57 am

Quoting cat3appr50 (Reply 226):
Many individuals/locals in Maldives reported a large aircraft flying an unusual low altitude at the approximate time that MH370 could have made it there, but these accounts have been discounted by the media commentators with the excuse that local observers most often report incorrect observations. I don't buy the media's assertions.

Except it wasn't just the media the local government confirmed military, civil primary radar did not see the plane.

http://www.businessinsider.my/maldiv...-370-in-its-airspace/#.Uyuqd_ldXCY

Edit: Also with all the low flying air taxi services their ATC radar is very likely capable of seeing a 777 flying in the same space as all the local flights. Their military radar would be able to see the plane approaching the islands very easily as there is no ground shadow or nap of the earth to speak of on the open ocean (unless your flying on the water...). Add onto that that cellphone coverage is almost complete across the entire island so a phone on the plane should have easily been able to register at that height the witnesses claim.

[Edited 2014-03-20 19:59:48]
 
B777fan
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:59 am

Quoting GZed (Reply 213):
Correct me if I’m wrong, but those drawings only represent the final ping from the engines

Not bad but not quite right. Yes the last ping could have taken place anywhere on those two arcs.

rcair1 has been publishing the collected info and it would fill you in on this topic. Just some highlights below.

No other ping data has been published but pings were sent every hour. The aircraft could have flown up to an hour after the last ping either away from or along those arcs. It is thought, but unconfirmed, that the other pings produced similar arcs but we are in the dark about them.

The pings are also not specifically engine related. They are more like network heartbeat signals just to say to the plane, are you still there? Other data could have been sent over this comm link if the airline wanted to use it.

ACARS was supposed to communicate every half hour and it did until it was turned off. It could and would normally use the SATCOM connection.
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:04 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 224):
A more likely scenario is that he was been calling a family member or a friend and telling them he'd be back in a couple of days. Pilots, like any kind other traveler, make calls before leaving all the time.

Of course it is more likely. But that does not rule out calling anybody else... And if it was the regular call to family, why don't we know that yet and why has it taken them almost two weeks to learn that the Captain possibly made a call? I'm sure his family would have told MAS by now if they received a call. It's 2014 and Malaysia is not that lacking in the technology required to gain access to simple mobile phone call logs... That is, of course, if the story is true...
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7BOEING7
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:05 am

Quoting cat3appr50 (Reply 226):
The media commentators then speculated that MH370 then flew to match a reported satellite arc point S of Australia. I didn't buy that either, as USA Naval Base Diego Garcia stands right in the middle of the Indian Ocean with enormous military radar, etc. capability and range, with absolute certainty of fighter interception with a plane (object) picked up on primary radar and not painting a transponder signature in that area.

First, I don't think we have any fighters at Diego Garcia. Second, if MH370 went due south from the last radar contact it would be right where it is now, at the bottom of the ocean 1500 miles + from any land mass including DG. The closest it would have gotten to DG is at least 1500 miles and we don't have any radar that can see that far on DG and they don't have any tankers to get the fighters to the radar contact that isn't flying in their direction.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:05 am

Quoting cat3appr50 (Reply 226):
Many individuals/locals in Maldives reported a large aircraft flying an unusual low altitude at the approximate time that MH370 could have made it there, but these accounts have been discounted by the media commentators with the excuse that local observers most often report incorrect observations. I don't buy the media's assertions.

The media would love the Maldivians to be right. Makes a great story. Eye witnesses being notoriously unreliable isn't something the media has made up. Ask any accident investigator and you'll get the same answer. Heck, ask any police detective.

The fact that there is no search effort based on the eyewitness accounts tells us the authorities don't find it credible. Add that with the satellite ping arcs going nowhere near the Maldives...

Quoting cat3appr50 (Reply 226):
After IGREX I still maintain that the likely flight path (to continue to avoid primary radar surveillance) was direct to the Maldives Islands area, where there are at least 2 airports with runways that can handle a B777-200.

You could probably land a 777, but perhaps not take off again, on any of the dozen Maldivian airports, even the tiny ones. Three problems with that theory though. What would be the motive? How would they expect to not be seen by anyone? What would be the plan once they've landed?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:08 am

I'm just listening to ABC News Radio (sorry no link, but I'm sure there is one out there) and apparently Tony Abbott, the Australian Prime Minister, personally spoke to the Chinese President last night to brief him on the AMSA Investigation. What I found significant is that President Xi apparently said that he was "devastated" to hear the news.

Again, I think this suggests that Australia and the United States have pretty concrete intelligence, that they briefed PRC on, but don't want to go public until they have confirmed it. I doubt that one would be "devastated" over a blurry photo that may or may not be related.
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rj777
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:13 am

I'm sorry. but this general on Fox News that's saying that he's got sources saying that the plane landed in Pakistan is coming across to me as a little bit of a nutjob. If any of the family members heard him say these things, they'd be throwing the water bottles at HIM!
 
bcworld
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:14 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 231):
Of course it is more likely. But that does not rule out calling anybody else... And if it was the regular call to family, why don't we know that yet and why has it taken them almost two weeks to learn that the Captain possibly made a call? I'm sure his family would have told MAS by now if they received a call. It's 2014 and Malaysia is not that lacking in the technology required to gain access to simple mobile phone call logs... That is, of course, if the story is true...

How do you know it has taken them 2 weeks? For all you know, and it is indeed likely, the crew's phone records have been studied long before now.

This is one of the problems here. People continue to assume that as soon as THEY learn something new that it has only just become known to investigators / MH / Malaysian authorities. The assumption seems to be that as soon as they have a piece of information it must be immediately published so everyone can speculate about it. Why? The information is of no use to anyone except those whose job it is to investigate all this.

So if you must speculate that he was calling an accomplice pilot in another aircraft then don't stop there...list all the other co-conspirators it might've been!

[Edited 2014-03-20 20:15:27]
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:15 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 234):

Could be devastated that they know the plane crashed.

Could be devastated to hear that they still can't find the plane.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:15 am

Quoting cat3appr50 (Reply 226):
Many individuals/locals in Maldives reported a large aircraft flying an unusual low altitude at the approximate time that MH370 could have made it there, but these accounts have been discounted by the media commentators with the excuse that local observers most often report incorrect observations. I don't buy the media's assertions.

Who cares what the media says or thinks? The investigators aren't looking where the media is telling them to. If there was any weight to the Maldives sighting, the investigators would be diverting assets there whether the media calls the eyewitnesses silly or if they report on the sighting 24/7

Quoting cat3appr50 (Reply 226):
So, I still maintain that MH370 likely did fly to the Maldives area and that the reports by locals of seeing that aircraft were likely accurate .

No offense, but a random guy on the internet versus professionals from many countries... gonna have to jump on the latter's bandwagon

Quoting davidzill (Reply 223):
and pilots disabled by smoke inhalation.

The problem I have with most of these smoke or hypoxia theories is that it's sooooo easy and simple to put on the full face mask with oxygen. We've had incidents in the past but it's still extremely unlikely and I have a hard time swallowing the course that the plane flew. Being confused and hypoxic is one thing, entering a bunch of random points to no where is another
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:22 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 234):
I doubt that one would be "devastated" over a blurry photo that may or may not be related.

But likely would be "devastated" over a high quality image that is related and that we haven't seen. (Or the Australian PM's assurance that such an image exits.)

[Edited 2014-03-20 20:26:05]
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holzmann
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:24 am

March 23-25: many world leaders will attend the Nuclear Industry Summit.

Coincidence the MH370 pilot was interested in AMS?
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jelliesR
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:25 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 239):
The problem I have with most of these smoke or hypoxia theories is that it's sooooo easy and simple to put on the full face mask with oxygen

What if one pilot was out of the cockpit chatting to some passengers, and the fire/smoke was originating near the oxygen equipment itself, like the Egyptair 777 cockpit fire. What if the pilot did not get oxygen flow, or had to leave his seat, and there was sudden decompression. What if he struggled with the computer, then passed out. The pilot or copilot could not return to the cockpit, because the door was locked. I know these are wild theories but perhaps the right time for one pilot to stretch his legs and say hello to some first class passengers was then.
 
Lindenwold
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:26 am

Quoting rj777 (Reply 236):

Is he still sticking to that scenario? Talk about stubborn.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:27 am

Quoting cat3appr50 (Reply 226):
MH370 could have easily made it to the Maldives area.

If you accept that conclusion, and I agree it's maybe possible for the aircraft to get all the way to the Maldives, then you are faced with a choice. Either the plane went to the Maldives, OR the ACARS pings are accurate. Both of those things cannot be true. It's one or the other.

Personally, I choose to believe the ACARS ping data rather than the "Maldives eye-witness" statments. I don't think I'm alone in that conclusion.
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CBRboy
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:28 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 234):
What I found significant is that President Xi apparently said that he was "devastated" to hear the news.

    

Quote:
Again, I think this suggests that Australia and the United States have pretty concrete intelligence, that they briefed PRC on, but don't want to go public until they have confirmed it. I doubt that one would be "devastated" over a blurry photo that may or may not be related.

A good assessment. The Australian PM would not have gone public in the way he did unless the military & intelligence community were confident that MH370 had ended up in the Southern Indian Ocean. You can bet that Australia is sharing intelligence on this with the US and with New Zealand.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:29 am

If anyone out there knows of a psychology student looking for a subject for a PhD thesis please direct them to this thread.


Quoting jelliesR (Reply 243):
like the Egyptair 777 cockpit fire

If Egyptair was airborne when that fire broke out it would have flown about 10 or 15 minutes, not 6+ hours.

[Edited 2014-03-20 23:11:57 by SA7700]
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SeeTheWorld
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:32 am

Quoting cbrboy (Reply 247):
A good assessment. The Australian PM would not have gone public in the way he did unless the military & intelligence community were confident that MH370 had ended up in the Southern Indian Ocean. You can bet that Australia is sharing intelligence on this with the US and with New Zealand.

Exactly right ... it's the Prime Minister of Australia for goodness sake ...
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:33 am

Quoting bcworld (Reply 237):
How do you know it has taken them 2 weeks? For all you know, and it is indeed likely, the crew's phone records have been studied long before now.

This is one of the problems here. People continue to assume that as soon as THEY learn something new that it has only just become known to investigators / MH / Malaysian authorities. The assumption seems to be that as soon as they have a piece of information it must be immediately published so everyone can speculate about it. Why? The information is of no use to anyone except those whose job it is to investigate all this.

So if you must speculate that he was calling an accomplice pilot in another aircraft then don't stop there...list all the other co-conspirators it might've been!

Why wait so long for such info to come out? If somebody knew that info earlier I would have thought it would have been released by the media or whoever about the same time that other info about the crew was discovered which was, let's say, about a week ago...

Quoting hivue (Reply 241):
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 234):
I doubt that one would be "devastated" over a blurry photo that may or may not be related.

But likely would be "devastated" over a high quality image that is related and that we haven't seen.

They would be devastated "IF" the blurry photo was indeed wreckage of MH370 because it would mean that it confirms that the plane crashed and most probably everybody on MH370 is dead.

[Edited 2014-03-20 20:37:08]
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:34 am

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 232):
First, I don't think we have any fighters at Diego Garcia.

Not any that are supposed to be planning on intercepting anything while there anyway. Maybe when the next war happens there will be some on alert!
 
jelliesR
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:39 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 249):
If Egyptair was airborne when that fire broke out it would have flown about 10 or 15 minutes, not 6+ hours.

Do you know how an electrical fire behaves at high altitude if it breaches the hull? perhaps explosive decompression or the jet stream blows it out or stifles it. I've no idea. Do you?
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:42 am

Quoting holzmann (Reply 242):
March 23-25: many world leaders will attend the Nuclear Industry Summit.

Coincidence the MH370 pilot was interested in AMS?

And that it was a KLM flight to AMS from SIN that could have been in the area in which MH370 might have been that led to the shadow theory... Maybe it landed somewhere under the KLM836 flight path so when it takes off at a later date to fly to AMS it will just shadow KLM836 again... As it arrives at about 0740 I would guess that most of the flight would be in the dark...  

[Edited 2014-03-20 20:46:26]
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
bcworld
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:45 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 251):
Why wait so long for such info to come out? If somebody knew that info earlier I would have thought it would have been released by the media or whoever about the same time that other info about the crew was discovered which was, let's say, about a week ago...

Perhaps this is part of your problem, if you believe it is the role of the media to release this information.
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:53 am

Quoting bcworld (Reply 255):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 251):
Why wait so long for such info to come out? If somebody knew that info earlier I would have thought it would have been released by the media or whoever about the same time that other info about the crew was discovered which was, let's say, about a week ago...

Perhaps this is part of your problem, if you believe it is the role of the media to release this information.

I don't have a problem, perhaps you do? I don't believe it is the role of the media to release information - I believe it is the role of relevant authorities to release information. However, in this instance often information has been released by the media or other sources before being released by the authorities. I have seen various media reports about the phone call - I have not yet seen the authorities discuss the phone call (I might have missed it). So, whilst I never said it is the role of the media to release info, it is the media who first seems to release info on MH370 which often leads to the authorities either confirming, denying or correcting later on...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:11 am

Is there anywhere online which gives reliable data on the whereabouts of the US naval fleet?

I have been using Stratfor to follow activity in the Indian Ocean and around Somalia, but wondered if there are any alternatives.

Many thanks

Rgds
Flying around India
 
PacNWjet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:12 am

I'm having a hard time understanding what is being implied by some of the recent posts. If I understand correctly, what some people are saying is that the Australian PM has determined that the debris detected in satellite imagery is from MH 370, he has conveyed this information to U.S. and Chinese officials, but all three governments are waiting until the facts are "confirmed" before they release them to the media. So if there is no "confirmation," then how do the governments in question know the debris is from the missing airplane? Or perhaps I'm just getting hung up on terms people are using such as "confirmation." In any case, it sort of makes government officials sound a bit sadistic that they have concrete evidence that the debris is from MH 370 but are waiting to tell the rest of the world (including the families of the passengers and crew) because, what?, they want to make a big media event of the anticipated "confirmation." Either they have confirmed the debris or not and, if they have, what are they waiting for? Or maybe I'm just confused.
 
valleyflyer
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:15 am

Quoting cbrboy (Reply 247):

24 meters is longer than most ICBMs. Australia (probably with the help of US satellite imagery) not being able tell the difference between floating junk and aircraft wreckage would be hard to believe.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:19 am

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 266):
I'm having a hard time understanding what is being implied by some of the recent posts. If I understand correctly, what some people are saying is that the Australian PM has determined that the debris detected in satellite imagery is from MH 370, he has conveyed this information to U.S. and Chinese officials, but all three governments are waiting until the facts are "confirmed" before they release them to the media. So if there is no "confirmation," then how do the governments in question know the debris is from the missing airplane? Or perhaps I'm just getting hung up on terms people are using such as "confirmation." In any case, it sort of makes government officials sound a bit sadistic that they have concrete evidence that the debris is from MH 370 but are waiting to tell the rest of the world (including the families of the passengers and crew) because, what?, they want to make a big media event of the anticipated "confirmation." Either they have confirmed the debris or not and, if they have, what are they waiting for? Or maybe I'm just confused.

I think you are confused .... It seems to me that the U.S. has combined their expertise with Australia and is allowing them to disseminate the information as the SAR is being coordinated and conducted from Perth.

[Edited 2014-03-20 21:19:57]

[Edited 2014-03-20 21:24:39]
 
fiscal
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:23 am

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 266):
some people are saying is that the Australian PM has determined that the debris detected in satellite imagery is from MH 370

That is not the case, the PM was at pains to stress that it was a lead, but that it may not be related to MH370 until it is found. The size was the defining nature that warranted a look.

On the issue of government (any) assistance, it is always a good excuse to hold an exercise, and looking for a downed aircraft is a way to train personnel in a "live" event, if that makes sense, so it some respects it kills two birds, one to assist and one to train.
 
MSY-MSP
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:24 am

No matter what any of us think in terms of what actually happened I think we can all agree that the following things are strange when taken on their own.

1) The last transmission appears completely normal

2) In very close time period to the handover the aircraft goes dark to secondary radar

3) Aircraft turns west and flies in that general direction.

Logic states that if there was a problem at handover the pilot would not have signed off. They would have alerted ATC that something was looking weird. Especially when it is home country ATC.

If there was a fire or something else the timing seems completely odd. Even if they had a hint of a problem at that time they wouldn't have signed off. Given it appears that it was at most 2 minute between signoff and the transponder going dark I cannot imagine a situation where you would turn off the transponder that quickly from a normal flight situation. (short of fire/smoke coming directly up from the transponder controls itself) But that doesn't account for the lack of ACARS. If I recall correctly ACARS can be deactivated via the FMC, but turning off the FMC in and of itself doesn't disable ACARS. So the reporting would have to be turned off via the FMC, but if there was a fire, the FMC would be kill all together. This would kill the autopilot as well if memory serves right. (or at least the ability to fly between waypoints).

This is where things don't add up for a mechanical failure.

Too many things have to happen at a very specific point in time for this to work.

Oh and to the guy who says the front tire could have caught fire. there is no brakes on the front gear of the 777 and if the tires had gotten too hot the pilot would have noticed it at takeoff as they would have to have been sideways. underinflated nose gear would not have burned unless completely flat and someone would have noticed that.

Everything points to someone doing something. Every mechanical theory falls apart once you add the timeline into it.

Ghosts we are chasing.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:33 am

I don't want to sound all rah-rah Australia, but if this IS the wreckage then IMHO you can thank whichever deity you believe in that it was found within Australian jurisdiction. I mean absolutely no disrespect to our northern neighbours when I say that our own resources, coupled with our incredibly close security relationship with the USA, means that Australia is probably best able to deal with this situation.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 268):

I appreciate that this was an innocent mistake, but for the record theSAR mission is being coordinated from Canberra (where AMSA, the Department of Defence, the Australian Defence Force ... not to mention ASIO etc have the majority of their resources)
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
SA7700
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40

Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:34 am

Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only. Please feel free to continue the discussion in part 41 which is available here:

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41 (by SA7700 Mar 20 2014 in Civil Aviation)


Thanks and regards,

SA7700
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