goboeing
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DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:08 pm

Rumor or fact?

DL 747-400 upper deck to be changed from the business class seats (brand new) to 60 economy comfort for a total capacity of 430.

Doesn't sound right to me with the new setup being so new already...and quite a steep ratio of economy to business class (it already dropped from 65 to 48 biz).

Anyone...?
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:24 pm

Delta should do something with their 744 upper deck. It is incredibly inefficient with their J seats. All it does is make for one of the widest aisles known to man. There are airlines with more F seats in the upper deck than Delta have J seats. As nice as it may be up there, relocating J seats to the main deck and putting E+ up there would be a very efficient move.
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PHX787
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:39 am

They just remodeled it with those lie-flat seats and it looks really nice up there as of recently, so i doubt anything will happen.
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crownvic
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:29 am

I purposely go out of my way to book the upper deck 744 on DL, just for these reasons. It is one of the best kept secrets of flying DL these days. I hope this is not true. Have two transpacs in the next 3 months booked on the DL "upstairs" and hope it is not the end.
 
n7371f
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:09 am

Yes, it's happening.

I can't explain why and how Delta spent all that money to reconfigure the international fleet, only to decide to pull out a hearty portion of premium seats. I know it has something to do with changes in international premium travel - and as we've seen under Richard, Delta doesn't sit on its rear. He runs a great ship.

One aspect I'd like to broach is the SkyMiles Medallion changes just rolled out on March 1, regarding "enhanced" system wide upgrades regionally and around-the-world. The sell was a much improved ability to upgrade from a coach class fare to BusinessElite. Yet I always had in the back of my mind that there was something more to this...and now I know there was -- Delta is pulling out some BE seats in most of the fleet and that will keep the limited availability for upgrades, just as before.

My experience as a multi-million flier, Diamond and an industry observer with good insight on Virginia Ave has taught me that there is no single enhancement without some time of give back since the merger.
 
Carfield
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:15 am

First I am surprised that Delta will even bother with changing the configuration on its 747s, as they are on their ways out soon. That's a lot of work for a fleet that will become history soon.

Second, business class passengers traditionally really enjoy the quiet ambience on the upper deck and prefer sitting there, rather than the main deck. I am surprised that Delta will rather remove the upper deck than just remove the second section of J in the main deck.

Economy comfort passengers will get quite a treat though!

Carfield

[Edited 2014-03-20 20:17:26]
 
AR385
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:39 am

Quoting Carfield (Reply 5):
Second, business class passengers traditionally really enjoy the quiet ambience on the upper deck and prefer sitting there, rather than the main deck. I am surprised that Delta will rather remove the upper deck than just remove the second section of J in the main deck.

It really goes both way. It would be interesting to see a poll on that. I´ve flown AF La Premiére on the nose of the 744 and LH´s F on the upper deck. In my opinion LH´s F on the Upper Deck wins hands down. It does feel like a private jet. You have two toillettes etc.

Buit I´ve heard people say that the nose is the best place to be in a 747 so...who knows. I´m sure DL´s surveys show them more clearly what their customers preferr.
 
PanAm747LHR
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:42 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 4):

Yes, it's happening.

What's your source?
 
aircanada014
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:14 am

I hope they don change it before June 10 cause I'm flying in their business elite from HNL-NRT
 
fun2fly
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:26 am

Quoting Carfield (Reply 5):
First I am surprised that Delta will even bother with changing the configuration on its 747s, as they are on their ways out soon. That's a lot of work for a fleet that will become history soon.

Not sure why you say they are on their way out since they haven't even selected a replacement plane and just issued the RFP.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:54 pm

Having worked on the NW and later DL 744 since 1989 I have seen numerous changes in configuration. Originally business class ran about 3 rows behind the galley at door 2. This meant that the lavs just aft of door 2L and 2R were exclusively used by BC customers. Then NW removed those BC seats and replaced them with YC bringing the total seating to something like 403. In theory those lavs were STILL supposed to be used by BC but it was impossible to keep YC passengers out of them.

The upper deck had 24 BC seats, 2 lavs and was very comfortable. This new configuration is not making much sense as it wastes a lot of valuable real estate. I am surprised that DL did not anticipate this before reconfiguring. YC seats generate revenue. Much of BC is upgrading and I guess you could give the argument that this is justified by the past and hopefully continuing revenue generated by HVC's. There will be some unhappy people that will not be able to sit up there without paying the full fare.
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homer787
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:00 pm

From a number cruncher's perspective, the upper deck of a 744 holds E or E+ seats the best. The 744Ds that NH and JL demonstrated this beautifully. From a premium passenger's perspective, the upper deck is intimate, private, and exclusive. This same attitude has crossed over to the A388. EK has a palace of F and B seats upstairs, and 399 head of cattle stuffed downstairs for this very reason.

DL number crunchers have the choice of about 60 E+ seats in the same area that currently holds 14 B seats that could move to 3 rows on the main deck. Space wise this would add up to two additional rows of E or E+ seating to the 744. The question is do they need more capacity at the expense of lost premium revenue?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:12 pm

Glad I got my 744 upper deck experience last year while I had the chance if this is supposedly going to happen. It is awesome up there, but agree there sure is a lot of wasted space up there with the current configuration.

If this is happening, I can see their intention:
- The current BE arrangement creates a lot of unused space (wide aisle, against the windows)
- The 744 fleet, while still to be in the fleet for another 4-6 years; the role and use is changing as DL is changing its Asia strategy; and softening in the Japan markets is directly impacting the amount of BE sales
- With the NRT capacity reductions, and SEA increases, the 744's deployment may change again to other routes
- They may be swapping EC upstairs, and moving some additional BE downstairs
- While the lost of 14 BE seats doesn't sound good, it gets the front cabin in line with A330 / 777 BE cabins, and in effect with more overall seats gives them a lower CASM and higher capacity ("high density") aircraft that now in theory could be more applicable to other routes (e.g., Europe, South America, Hawaii). The current configuration with an overall high BE count really limits the places the 744 can economically fly. The 744 can be an economical aircraft, but it needs to be FULL.
 
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tlecam
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:12 pm

I find that the upper deck in the 747's gets uncomfortably warm. I've noticed this on several airlines, notably BA and LH.

I prefer to sit downstairs and I enjoy the premium cabins to be in the nose.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
flpuck6
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:37 pm

Hello all,

With regards to density, Air France did the same thing when they reconfigured with the then new business seats.

They have 60 upper deck Y seats which are sold as "premium seats" for a configuration of 36J 396Y
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:48 pm

The one drawback of generous frequent flyer programs is that they tend to diminish the BC product. Fewer people are willing to pay for the seat and go for the upgrade. When we were still NW I could tell from the printout who was an upgrade but you can't tell anymore.

To return to the upper deck configuration, there was a period in the early 90's when NW was trying to decide whether or not to eliminate FC entirely. For a brief time they reconfigured the upper deck with 8 FC seats forward of the exit doors and BC behind it. That was a total disaster because the BC pax had to tromp through FC to get to the lavs just about the time we were doing our fancy cart service. Also when we prepared the FC carts in the rear galley we had to drag them through business class and I remember thinking to myself "See this? You aren't getting any of it". Finally, after months of complaints from f/a's and passengers they scrapped the whole idea and ripped it all out again. We told them it was a lousy idea but they never listen to the people that actually WORK on the airplane. Those that fly a desk know better.
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seabosdca
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:54 pm

Quoting goboeing (Thread starter):
DL 747-400 upper deck to be changed from the business class seats (brand new) to 60 economy comfort for a total capacity of 430.

Do we know whether more BE will be added on the lower deck?

If not, this shows they are planning to change the mission of the 744.

If so, this is just a nice move to make the use of space more efficient. BE passengers will be fine in the front two cabins of the lower deck, and the paying ones can grab seats in the private front cabin.
 
mhockey31091
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:38 pm

What seats do they have up top? Are they the herringbone ones or they the newest ones on some of the 767's?
 
TR1
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:10 pm

If this rumor is true it would be a continuation of a trend of DL eliminating BusinessElite seats and replacing them with Economy seats that have a better chance of actually being sold. Bad for those trying to upgrade and for non-revs   but better from a business standpoint. Could we also see further conversions of 767-300ERs from the L Configuration with 35/36 BusinessElite seats to the Z configuration with only 25/26 BusinessElite? Or are there plans to reduce BusinessElite seats on the 767-400ERs next?

During the summer it is not uncommon for Economy Class customers to be involuntarily upgraded into BusinessElite on many international flights.
 
PresRDC
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:04 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 15):
The one drawback of generous frequent flyer programs is that they tend to diminish the BC product. Fewer people are willing to pay for the seat and go for the upgrade. When we were still NW I could tell from the printout who was an upgrade but you can't tell anymore.

As a frequent paid J class traveler (for business travel), I can tell you that one of the most important aspects of a J fare is flexibility. Of my over 100 international business trips, I think I only came home on the originally scheduled date 10 times.

The flexibility means nothing if there are no available seats on the flights I want to take, which has happened to me dozens of times. The point is that reducing J seats does not just impact upgrades and award tickets, but also impacts the very travelers the airlines are trying to lure with the enhanced seating and services.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:36 pm

Quoting TR1 (Reply 18):
Or are there plans to reduce BusinessElite seats on the 767-400ERs next?

I doubt we'll see that happen. The 767-400ER is being used these days as the most premium widebody for high-yield TATL markets.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:42 pm

Quoting PresRDC (Reply 19):
The point is that reducing J seats does not just impact upgrades and award tickets, but also impacts the very travelers the airlines are trying to lure with the enhanced seating and services.

Yes, a very valid point. it is your bucks they are after.
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MIflyer12
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:47 pm

Quoting PresRDC (Reply 19):
The point is that reducing J seats does not just impact upgrades and award tickets, but also impacts the very travelers the airlines are trying to lure with the enhanced seating and services.

No doubt some FlyerTalkers will complain about lack of saver awards and discounted business fares while ignoring the imperative for Revenue Management to keep J fares available.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:01 pm

Quoting PresRDC (Reply 19):
As a frequent paid J class traveler (for business travel), I can tell you that one of the most important aspects of a J fare is flexibility. Of my over 100 international business trips, I think I only came home on the originally scheduled date 10 times.

The flexibility means nothing if there are no available seats on the flights I want to take, which has happened to me dozens of times. The point is that reducing J seats does not just impact upgrades and award tickets, but also impacts the very travelers the airlines are trying to lure with the enhanced seating and services.

Your point is well taken. I cannot agree more--business people value the flexibility as wel as the product. In today's world there are times you can leave sooner and there are times you need few extra days.

I try to thank HVC's personally for their loyalty (and slip them some extra points) but most importantly to me is that I want to be sure that they are accomodated with their first choice of entree which is why you will see us consulting a list and kind of taking orders seemingly at random. They are DL's bread and butter. I really like to hear their critiques--many are valid--and try to pass them on to the upper echelons. Sometimes I get a chance to talk personally with Mr. Anderson or other leaders and I try to remember to jot down a few things I have heard to them personally. A few times I have gotten a follow up email in that way.

[Edited 2014-03-21 12:07:29]
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captainstefan
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:58 pm

Quoting TR1 (Reply 18):
Bad [...] for non-revs  

My first thought... shame on me

Quoting TR1 (Reply 18):
Or are there plans to reduce BusinessElite seats on the 767-400ERs next?

This wouldn't make any sense - the way the cabin fits neatly between doors 1 and 2, providing a very definite boundary between J and Y (as most business travelers will tell you this is important) is a good setup. Your idea reminds me of the few pmNW 752s flying around with two rows of Y seats in front of door 2R... it's just weird and I'm sure at least a few Diamonds frown upon it as they board.
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rwy04lga
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:05 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 23):
I want to be sure that they are accommodated with their first choice of entree which is why you will see us consulting a list and kind of taking orders seemingly at random.

The FA's don't always ask, so I make sure to tell the FA that ''I'm non-rev, I'll take whatever's left''. Everything's delicious, so I'm happy with whatever I get.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
captainstefan
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:05 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 25):
''I'm non-rev, I'll take whatever's left''.

Same. Doing this usually works in our favor anyway - if they know you're ready to volunteer and give up a choice for a paying passenger, you tend to get better treatment the rest of the flight 
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PHX787
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:30 pm

If they are getting rid of business elite seats altogether it would be suicide for DL. Especially in the asian market.
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crownvic
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:23 am

Quoting mhockey31091 (Reply 17):
What seats do they have up top? Are they the herringbone ones or they the newest ones on some of the 767's?

It is not the crappy herringbone seats. It is the much nicer and larger newer version, hence the controversy. These 744's just came out of major reconfig and if the thread is accurate, then they are going to have to turn these planes back for another reconfig.
 
PHX787
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:43 am

Quoting crownvic (Reply 28):
It is not the crappy herringbone seats. It is the much nicer and larger newer version, hence the controversy. These 744's just came out of major reconfig and if the thread is accurate, then they are going to have to turn these planes back for another reconfig.

key word "if the thread is accurate"

I'm placing all my money on this just being another silly rumor.
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wjcandee
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:32 am

I have actually been looking at the JFK-NRT flights quite a bit the last few months regarding a friend's repeated travel on that route recently. J is pretty much always sold out or close to it within a couple of days of the flight. (The flights themselves have been pretty much going out full even in the slower winter season. I know the fares are lower, but they are doing an excellent job of hitting the revenue management just right.) I don't know about the other 747 NRT routes, or the JFK-TLV turn, but at least on JFK-NRT, the fact that DL is flying a 747 seems to appeal to both Japanese and American travelers, including I assume some high-dollar customers. And they are filling up the plane.

I know that my friend who always used to fly ANA or JAL (being Japanese) now only flies DL, specifically because she likes the 747, which she thinks is a "new" airplane. She was happy that DL had gotten rid of all its "old" 747s and had bought "new" ones in the past couple of years. I didn't disabuse her of this notion, and I assume it is not an uncommon one, given how good the refurbs were.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:40 am

I selfishly would like this rumor to end up being truth. It would be easier fulfill my dream of flying in the upper deck of a 747!
 
Max Q
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:09 am

Fact is, there is no other Aircraft with a faster smoother ride, Queen of the skies and always will be.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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MAH4546
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:20 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 30):
I know that my friend who always used to fly ANA or JAL (being Japanese) now only flies DL, specifically because she likes the 747, which she thinks is a "new" airplane. She was happy that DL had gotten rid of all its "old" 747s and had bought "new" ones in the past couple of years. I didn't disabuse her of this notion, and I assume it is not an uncommon one, given how good the refurbs were.

Given that JAL and ANA derive significant revenue premiums over Delta in the JFK-NYC market, where Delta is the non-stop low-fare carrier, I'd say it actually is an uncommon notion. JAL's J product is especially outstanding - probably the best of any airline, anywhere.
a.
 
EricR
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 33):

Given that JAL and ANA derive significant revenue premiums over Delta in the JFK-NYC market, where Delta is the non-stop low-fare carrier, I'd say it actually is an uncommon notion. JAL's J product is especially outstanding - probably the best of any airline, anywhere.

More trash talking about DL again? Why such a focus on revenue premiums and not profitability? JAL and ANA can keep the revenue premiums, but it is quite clear that among US legacies DL maintains the best margins due to a focus on the overall picture and not just revenue premiums. DL also consistently beats out other legacies in customer satisfaction ratings.

Instead of criticizing DL's moves, you should consider what they are doing and why they are doing it. DL has become the trend setter among legacies. Many recent changes DL made are quickly being followed by other carriers.

[Edited 2014-03-22 08:45:15]
 
factsonly
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:40 pm

For those who have not yet seen the new DL B744 C-class upperdeck seating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK7e-Zxyk2A
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:38 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 34):
More trash talking about DL again? Why such a focus on revenue premiums and not profitability? JAL and ANA can keep the revenue premiums, but it is quite clear that among US legacies DL maintains the best margins due to a focus on the overall picture and not just revenue premiums. DL also consistently beats out other legacies in customer satisfaction ratings.

Stating a fact is trash talking? There is no need to get so defensive. It's rare for any American airline to derive revenue premiums over foreign carriers on competing routes. No need to get so offended by facts. It's not trash talking and I have no idea what the rest has to do with anything.
a.
 
Viscount724
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:46 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 33):
JAL's J product is especially outstanding - probably the best of any airline, anywhere.

JAL's 787 J product doesn't look very impressive.
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 37):

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 33):
JAL's J product is especially outstanding - probably the best of any airline, anywhere.

JAL's 787 J product doesn't look very impressive.

I agree with that; fortunately it's on the way out.

It's 77W J product is out of this world; and it's J soft product is, IMO, the best out there.
a.
 
EricR
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:32 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 36):

No need to get so offended by facts

No offense taken.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 36):

It's rare for any American airline to derive revenue premiums over foreign carriers on competing routes. No need to get so offended by facts. It's not trash talking and I have no idea what the rest has to do with anything.

The "rest" has to do with the fact that DL's objective is about margins. One way to accomplish this goal is by generating a higher return on their assets, and one way to do this is by increasing capacity on its planes. Therefore, assuming the story above is true, it would fall right in line with their strategy.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:44 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 25):
The FA's don't always ask, so I make sure to tell the FA that ''I'm non-rev, I'll take whatever's left''. Everything's delicious, so I'm happy with whatever I get.

It is appreciated but we actually know who the non-revs are and where they are seated. When I have one sitting next to a revenue passenger I will ask for the rev pax's order first and then say something like "I remember what you told me when you boarded but I'll check back in a few minutes to be sure. It is code-talk but they understand.

I did have one rather interesting incident in this regard back in the NW days. I was working a flight from EWR to MSP at breakfast time and I was going to be a meal or two short. Onboard was a young lady traveling to MSPfor a flight attendant job interview--that boarding priority carried a special code which immediately identifies to the working crew who and what they are. So when I was serving the breakfast, I leaned down and whispered the situation to the applicant and told her I was pretty sure that I would have enough to feed her but for a few minutes I was going to pass her by. I would bring the meal when I could. Well didn't she just throw a Level 5 hissy fit right there in the cabin. This was unacceptable, she was a "guest" of NW, who do I think I am, etc. I moved on to the next row and I hear her badmouthing NW, me, my crew and everything else upto and including the color of the upholstery on the seats to the revenue passengers around her. Eventually I brought her a breakfast tray and as I went to set it down she put her hand up and said "Don't even bother. It's too late now."

We landed in MSP and she huffs off the jet on her way to her interview. Well, I used to do the interviewing and knew everyone in Human Resources--and I also knew the inside phone number by heart. So I went to the telephone on the jet bridge, dialed HR and recounted the story. The next day when I got home I got an hysterical phone call from one of the HR folks recounting how "Miss Hissy Fit" had arrived for her interview. They pulled her aside just when she walked in the door, gave her a return ticket home and told her she would NEVER work for NW and recounted her actions on the airplane coming in. The moral of this story--you never know who you are dealing with so watch your manners. This was NOT someone that I would want to work alongside and she was certainly not f/a material. Best part of it is that she probably never figured out how HR knew.

.
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roseflyer
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:00 pm

DL is losing a lot of potential revenue on the upper deck. the business class seat is not well suited to that space. It does much better on the lower decks. 14 business class seats is a waste of space. Economy comfort is a better idea. Even if they replace the economy comfort seats space behind door 2 with business and put economy comfort upstairs, they overall will gain seats.

AA has a similar situation with their first class on the A321. The 45 degree seats don't do well in a space that would otherwise fit 3-3 economy. A 747 upper deck is about the same width as a narrowbody. Those business seats only use the width of 2~2.5 economy seats. AA has a similar seat in its first class on the A321 which has a ridiculously wide aisle. Direct aisle access is great but it doesn't work in a single aisle configuration with 45 degree angled seats. It's a waste of space.

When it comes to maximizing revenue, it is a relatively easy equation. If they plan 5 years of service, the number of seats over a given number of flights will justify the return.
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wjcandee
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:07 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 40):
"Miss Hissy Fit"

First of all, her conduct reflects just bad judgment all around: you're in someone else's house, behave yourself. If you're a "guest" of NW, you darn well better ACT like a guest, which my Mom and Dad, at least, taught me means to be respectful of the kindness being shown to you by your host and to comport yourself well.

Secondly, most employers now realize the value of including folks outside HR and the hiring executive in the process. Years ago, I would always interview the receptionist, van driver, etc. about how it was to deal with the candidate. Be rude or dismissive or haughty to our receptionist, you're not getting a job here. It reflects poor upbringing to identify people as being "lower" than you. Our receptionists were hired because of their skill in interacting with sophisticated, hibrow clients; our receptionists' instinctive kindness, perceptiveness and good manners gave them a strong platform in which to evaluate that in others. "Nuff said.

That's a great story. I love comeuppance tales. They're so fun, and provide a little "atta boy" for generally treating others with dignity and respect. (It shouldn't be necessary, but it's nice.)
 
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b727fa
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:13 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 25):
The FA's don't always ask, so I make sure to tell the FA that ''I'm non-rev, I'll take whatever's left''. Everything's delicious, so I'm happy with whatever I get.

The current service proticol is NOT to ask. FA's are to take every order as though there is no difference. When/if there is a shortage there are plans in place to deal with that. But thank you for your flexibility!
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:42 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 30):
She was happy that DL had gotten rid of all its "old" 747s and had bought "new" ones in the past couple of years.

And yet, DL has the oldest 744 possible...the prototype.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 40):
It is appreciated but we actually know who the non-revs are and where they are seated.

I had assumed they did since an FA once explained to me that she had to take the other passengers orders first, and then she'd get back to me. When the previously-mentioned FA went to me in sequence, I just wanted to make sure she knew the situation.

If the current service protocol is NOT to ask, that discretion is so that the revenue passengers don't suspect that they're among non-revs.

Any consideration from the FA's is MUCH appreciated.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
crownvic
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:39 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 39):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 36):

No need to get so offended by facts

No offense taken.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 36):

It's rare for any American airline to derive revenue premiums over foreign carriers on competing routes. No need to get so offended by facts. It's not trash talking and I have no idea what the rest has to do with anything.

The "rest" has to do with the fact that DL's objective is about margins. One way to accomplish this goal is by generating a higher return on their assets, and one way to do this is by increasing capacity on its planes. Therefore, assuming the story above is true, it would fall right in line with their strategy.

EricR...One has to realize, that this can also be construed as corporate greed. I applaud Delta for some of the moves they have made, but you also have to understand, that does not mean it equates to customers being happy with these changes. Delta is no different than and other corporation. They are trying to maximize revenue, but that can also come at a cost to customer satisfaction.

There have been several polls I have read in recent years how consumers feel about airlines. They have been placed in a similar category to cable companies and telecommunications companies. Not a good pool to be placed in, however, many companies in these "no love lost" groups do happen to be very profitable.

I think it is safe to say, consumers have a love/hate relationship with airlines. No matter how you look at it, airlines do not treat customers like they use to, but then again, what companies do? It all has to do with how long you have been around and how you can compare service today, to prior experiences in life.
 
akelley728
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:58 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 41):
Even if they replace the economy comfort seats space behind door 2 with business and put economy comfort upstairs, they overall will gain seats.

I'm not sure that putting a section of BE behind 2L/2R is a good idea. I think the lavs and galleys right behind 2L/2R are for economy, correct? If you put BE right behind the lavs and galleys then you're going to have issues when E passengers try to go forward to use the lavs and when the E service (that has to go through BE) is served from those galleys.
 
Flighty
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:08 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 40):
turn ticket home and told her she would NEVER work for NW and recounted her actions on the airplane coming in. The moral of this story--you never know who you are dealing with so watch your manners. This was NOT someone that I would want to work alongside and she was certainly not f/a material. Best part of it is that she probably never figured out how HR knew.

WELL done DTW   Always a pleasure.
 
Prost
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:21 am

Quoting akelley728 (Reply 46):
I'm not sure that putting a section of BE behind 2L/2R is a good idea. I think the lavs and galleys right behind 2L/2R are for economy, correct? If you put BE right behind the lavs and galleys then you're going to have issues when E passengers try to go forward to use the lavs and when the E service (that has to go through BE) is served from those galleys.

Technically 2R lav is for BE. Good luck enforcing that. I usually tell the BE customers is they don't want to wait they can use the two UD lavs, tell the FA they are seated in BE downstairs.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: DL 744 Upper Deck Config Change (rumor?)

Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:52 pm

Quoting akelley728 (Reply 46):
I'm not sure that putting a section of BE behind 2L/2R is a good idea. I think the lavs and galleys right behind 2L/2R are for economy, correct? If you put BE right behind the lavs and galleys then you're going to have issues when E passengers try to go forward to use the lavs and when the E service (that has to go through BE) is served from those galleys.

This arrangement is already used on the A330-200. There are 3 rows of BC behind the galley. When we close what is laughingly called a curtain, people pretty much know that BC is off limits inflight. Plus, most f/a's will make it appoint to show the passengers in the first few rows of YCthat their lavs are located behind them. It is a polite way of informing rather than enforcing rules. Of course, I have had the occasional "bathroom emergency" usually detectable with one look at their eyes and you just nod your head and smile. We have all been there.

Actually, the two lavs at 2L and R were originally designated for BC use--then we tried to limit it to the one at 2R by putting a curtain there but it soon became unenforceable. We joked about being "potty police."
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