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cougar15
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:51 am

Quoting SA7700 (Thread starter):
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

A german´rag´(real nasty tabloid) is reporting there was 3 tons of Gold in the bellies, anyone heard this before or from a more reliable source?

[Edited 2014-03-21 02:52:41]
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:56 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 100):
Determining where it landed is already dangerous then... let's put it this way... once it lands, the satcom can be disabled. Just switch off the bloody SDU above the cabin panels. Then it can take off again and the satellite won't pick up any pings or whatever. And guess what... from wherever it landed it can have enough fuel to go to Pakistan, Iran, and even... Tel Aviv! So let's not find it because people are going to go crazy about it. I mean... really?

---
And no, I don't have a manual for that version of the satcom. I do have for a newer version which has the SIM but not in the form of a SIMcard. It's in the Configuration Module you plug onto the SDU. The older ones (I-3) has a similar version but both version the configuration module is specific to the aircraft.

So you have a newer version (dated when?) still wouldn't mind that (I love obscure manuals). A configuration module which acts like a sim, talks a like a sim, is probable a sim card in a holder which gets a name for the holder itself. (At least that is what I'm guessing without a datasheet to go on). Have you ever taken apart a configuration module is it a huge board or a smallish block with few pins.

Why not just not have satcom on from the start. No one was talking about satcom within the flight time so they wouldn't have known inmarsat knew. This whole stealing plane theory is far fetched and well covered. Hiding a 777 from primary military radar isn't easy. And now with all the theories flying it is going to get smacked out of the sky if it shows up later. (Which begs the question of how smart these people were in the first place assuming that theory)

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 100):
No? You do realize that we're talking about the same thing. The northwestern most point of the arc is the furthest the airplane can possibly go to along the 40deg incline angle circle of the satellite's footprint (about a 2550nm radius circle from 64E on the equator)... it is where the satellite footprint at 40deg inclination circle intersects the 2700nm radius circle from the point of last contact. Maybe you got confused with my repeated use of the word "arc"?

Sorry, the intermediary pings are useful to determine where the plane isn't going to be, and can provide various areas of interest along the red arc where it is quite likely to be.

Those who are thinking that the intermediary pings are useful also agree that if the plane did shadow another airplane, it would not be anywhere near the edge of the endurance circle (hence away from the red arc's northwestern end)...

The authorities already used all the data to get the arcs. The intermediate pings would have already been used otherwise they wouldn't use all the data and take days to figure out the estimate. If the plane shadowed another plane it still has to land on the endurance circle (its where it was last pinged...) that is the contradiction with the shadowing/nap of the earth theory it isn't possible.

The last ping defines where the plane was last. If can't fall short of that because that is what it is. (If you think it went west then anything other than flying direct, which we know for sure would result in discovery by radar would place it far far east on the same endurance circle)


Quoting cougar15 (Reply 101):
A german´rag´(real nasty tabloid) is reporting there was 3 tons of Gold in the bellies, anyone heard this before or from a more reliable source?

The cargo manifest did not metion that listing according to earlier official reports. And 3 tons of Gold would not go un-noticed. (It would be a box the size of a bathtub but would weigh 3 tons)

Oh my, they technically lied about the cargo manifest. There are lithium batteries in the shipment according to the press conference. But they were well packed apparently according to international standards so are considered "safe". (If they meet the requirements it should have been fine, I've gotten a digikey box by air with one lithum battery in a double big labeled box with tiny fraction of the box being a single coin cell battery even if it caught fire it probably wouldn't have made it out of the box by the time it got to my door)

They should really just let the NTSB help out a bit more in the press conference side of things. (Or at least get their media teams to help prepare statements).

[Edited 2014-03-21 04:06:11 by SA7700]
 
dragon-wings
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:04 am

CNN is reporting now that the search planes did not find anything on the second day of the search of the southern Indian ocean.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:07 am

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 105):

CNN is reporting now that the search planes did not find anything on the second day of the search of the southern Indian ocean.

Strange haven't seen anything on AMSA's own site/twitter and they usually are just as fast or faster. Not to mention aren't they on the third day of the search?

Edit: going onto the fourth day (AMSA already has day 4 planned areas up)

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:08:19]

Or I guess CNN might mean the second day of the sat debris search (that is a bit confusing).

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:09:51]


The days searched and corresponding areas are here (3 days by plane going onto 4), http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/inciden...cumulative_search_area_handout.pdf

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:14:22]

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:15:01]

Edit lots, They also said at the start it could take a few days to look for the sat based debris and weeks for the entire search.

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:16:11]

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:16:36]
 
dragon-wings
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:12 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 106):
Not to mention aren't they on the third day of the search?

I thought they ment the second day of searching with planes.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
mika
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:13 am

What is the latest regarding this? Has it been concluded that there was nothing to be found in the area that was brought up yesterday?

Pardon my laziness to look through the vast amount of posts here (currently on the move).
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:21 am

http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/inciden...-03-18/20120928adf8252964_231a.jpg

Just noticed they are still running windows xp on the noise blurred out computer in the linked image (wonder what map is behind that)(I hope they have their extended service agreement with Microsoft)

Wow, just noticed they use two pass blurring techniques as well to hide stuff cleanly they don't want us to see. (One random chroma noise and a standard block blur)(it is on the map, taskbar/computer)

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:22:12]

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:23:03]




Although they did it in quite a hurry as they hit the guys hand a bit and they could use some finer masking to not blur stuff like his arm/hand.

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:24:25]
 
LandSweetLand
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:29 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 87):
Note the cargo manifest doesn't list items in checked baggage

Don't start the conspiracy theorists off with that now. Or we'll be seeing theories of someone using LiPos in their phone etc to

Quoting tomlee (Reply 109):

http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/inciden...-03-18/20120928adf8252964_231a.jpg

Just noticed they are still running windows xp on the noise blurred out computer in the linked image (wonder what map is behind that)(I hope they have their extended service agreement with Microsoft)

Wow, just noticed they use two pass blurring techniques as well to hid stuff cleanly they don't want us to see.

That photo is about 1.5 years old though (check the exif info + file name). So they might have updated since then.

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:30:17]
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:32 am

Quoting LandSweetLand (Reply 110):
Don't start the conspiracy theorists off with that now. Or we'll be seeing theories of someone using LiPos in their phone etc to

True. Should be more careful with my wording.

Quoting LandSweetLand (Reply 110):
That photo is 2 years old though (check the exif info + file name). So they might have updated since then.

Oh that is good, hopefully, I have some clients who's IT departments have no plans to move forward even though they have no extended support for XP and it is security updates stop very soon and they are running what I consider high risk applications in networked industrial systems. (April 8, 2014)

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:33:07]

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:33:20]

Edit: all their machines, business side still run windows xp as well. I also warned them a few years ago when I did a project with them and again recently but they don't think they are a target so brushed it off... (ostrich effect/algo)


[Edited 2014-03-21 03:34:47]

[Edited 2014-03-21 03:42:41]
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:44 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 102):
The cargo manifest did not metion that listing according to earlier official reports. And 3 tons of Gold would not go un-noticed. (It would be a box the size of a bathtub but would weigh 3 tons)

Forget about Gold, how about Uranium as some people suggested from the very first beginning
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:50 am

Quoting capri (Reply 111):
Forget about Gold, how about Uranium as some people suggested from the very first beginning

I don't think they mentioned that either and hiding uranium isn't that easy either it also weighs quite a lot (basically as much as gold). Hiding it in a shipping container would make far more sense as there are far more ways to hide it in a large shipment.
 
YoungMans
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:56 am

Quoting rheinwaldner (Reply 89):
Considering all the 7 pings will rule out a lot of places, where the plane could be when just looking at the last one.

These seven 'pings', or just one, are confusing .... Is it correct to assume that:
The satellite wouldn't know whether the 'ping' comes from the aircraft airborne or, just as likely, while parked up on an apron, with all the necessary electric power switched on?
As long as it is from anywhere in that proverbial wedge, which then would have to be the northern one.
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:57 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 111):
I don't think they mentioned that either and hiding uranium isn't that easy either it also weighs quite a lot (basically as much as gold). Hiding it in a shipping container would make far more sense as there are far more ways to hide it in a large shipment.

don't forget also that Malaysia was highlighted as illegal arms deals transit point, someone as was suggested didn't want some shipments to be caught by customs, 14 days and not to releasethe catgo manifest and still investigating raises lots of more questions and they are not making any easier to put these theories to bed
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:04 am

Quoting YoungMans (Reply 112):
These seven 'pings', or just one, are confusing .... Is it correct to assume that:
The satellite wouldn't know whether the 'ping' comes from the aircraft airborne or, just as likely, while parked up on an apron, with all the necessary electric power switched on?
As long as it is from anywhere in that proverbial wedge, which then would have to be the northern one.

If the plane was stationary for all seven pings it would result in a totally differnt arc estimate which would look very unusual and would be a lot shorter than the final ping we see which is just about when the plane would have run out of fuel. The running assumption is the plane flew on for ~7 hours (the max with its fuel load) and basically fell out of the sky and did not land safely unfortunately. And if you read all the previous threads there is a lot of other problems with landing in the north. (Radar, valid runways, cell,...)

And there is no possible landing area wedge. I should not even talk about these middle points just adds to the confusion, the only place the plane's flight ended (and likely crashed) is around the north/south arc we see in the media/press releases.

Quoting capri (Reply 113):
don't forget also that Malaysia was highlighted as illegal arms deals transit point, someone as was suggested didn't want some shipments to be caught by customs, 14 days and not to releasethe catgo manifest and still investigating raises lots of more questions and they are not making any easier to put these theories to bed

We don't need to be making the theories in the first place. Smuggling by sea is far more effective and can provide better results with less risk, less chance of interception, and far less media coverage. With a passenger jet going to china the risk of angering China + ever other nation with passengers on the flight is extreme so for one smuggling attempt it seems like a very poor and low probability of succeeding idea.

Edit: Nothing to do but wait now. It will take a few weeks to finish the searching in the north/south so I'd be more interested in talking about how to stop planes from going missing with the least cost/weight/power/etc... (ELT mod is the main idea I have)

[Edited 2014-03-21 04:50:24 by SA7700]
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:06 am

Quoting capri (Reply 113):
don't forget also that Malaysia was highlighted as illegal arms deals transit point, someone as was suggested didn't want some shipments to be caught by customs, 14 days and not to releasethe catgo manifest and still investigating raises lots of more questions and they are not making any easier to put these theories to bed

We don't need to be making the theories in the first place. Smuggling by sea is far more effective and can provide better results with less risk, less chance of interception, and far less media coverage. With a passenger jet going to china the risk of angering China + ever other nation with passengers on the flight is extreme so for one smuggling attempt it seems like a very poor and low probability of succeeding idea.

Edit: Nothing to do but wait now. It will take a few weeks to finish the searching in the north/south so I'd be more interested in talking about how to stop planes from going missing with the least cost/weight/power/etc... (ELT mod is the main idea I have)

[Edited 2014-03-21 04:11:36]
 
chaseus1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:12 am

I think the other earlier pings are important because they can show if the routing was consistent. Simple geometry could show possible general routes through the distance rings each hour from the satellite, by seeing how long it took, to go from one distance ring to another. Certain headings will work with the math for whichever distance ring it was hitting each hour. Plus, if the plane had been on a northern route, it may have given an idea of where to look, for possible targets when reviewing archived radar data. In fact, this may apply to Australian radar on the southern route as well.
 
Enobar
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:12 am

A quick scan of wiki says that PC3 Orion's aren't capable of aerial refuelling but are the P8's?

If so I'm kind of surprised that the RAAF haven't decided to send out their shiney new KC30's so that they could keep the P8's aloft and searching for longer stretches at a time.

Anyone know why that wouldn't be feasible?
 
cand
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:15 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 102):
The authorities already used all the data to get the arcs. The intermediate pings would have already been used otherwise they wouldn't use all the data and take days to figure out the estimate. If the plane shadowed another plane it still has to land on the endurance circle (its where it was last pinged...) that is the contradiction with the shadowing/nap of the earth theory it isn't possible.

The last ping defines where the plane was last. If can't fall short of that because that is what it is. (If you think it went west then anything other than flying direct, which we know for sure would result in discovery by radar would place it far far east on the same endurance circle)

I hope they used the data form all pings and it confirms the north/south current assumption. It should look like: 45deg at 1:11, 50deg at 2:11, and next ones gradually changing to end with 40deg at 8:11. If the sequence is different, you come to different conclusions. For example, if last 5-6 pings are all at 40deg, the plane might be in Laos (and somehow the systems were still running on the ground).

So it might have went south towards the middle of the ocean. I don't believe the plane flew itself. Somebody was in control and would not or could not communicate. But why go there? To deliver some cargo to a waiting ship? To take some nasty bomb far away from populated areas? Quite far-fetched...
 
kevinkevin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:18 am

I can definitely make out the Malaysian logo on one of those pictures from the Satellite. I expected better quality pictures than that from a satellite costing millions. Have they purposely blurred these pictures?
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:19 am

Quoting chaseus1 (Reply 114):

I think the other earlier pings are important because they can show if the routing was consistent. Simple geometry could show possible general routes through the distance rings each hour from the satellite, by seeing how long it took, to go from one distance ring to another. Certain headings will work with the math for whichever distance ring it was hitting each hour. Plus, if the plane had been on a northern route, it may have given an idea of where to look, for possible targets when reviewing archived radar data. In fact, this may apply to Australian radar on the southern route as well.

I think in my opinion that the smart people at inmarsat who where the first ones to develop this method with the NTSB which already narrowed the search area already did that. They used all the data they have, we just see the results. (I'm amazed they can even get results as good as they show)(They call it the last ping because it is just that but that doesn't mean they ignored everything before)

Just wait for the final/interm reports for how they did it or eventually the media will poke and prod enough for them to explain in detail. (The methods are probably still being refined, just as the search area is refined).

I would love to play investigator with all the raw data now but I can easily see from here how it will get twisted and points discounted and ignored and a selective truth built to prop up shaky conspiracy theories. (This is why well organized press releases are so important, the AMSA seems to be doing a very good job)
 
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garpd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:23 am

Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 117):
I can definitely make out the Malaysian logo on one of those pictures from the Satellite. I expected better quality pictures than that from a satellite costing millions. Have they purposely blurred these pictures?

What satellite image? I see lots of references to them, but no links.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:23 am

Quoting cand (Reply 116):

It is really simple the plane likely crashed into the ocean after running out of fuel. (Adding on an objective, motive, purpose is basically pointless at this point as there isn't anything to go on) The theories about landing, hiding, ... have been well covered in previous threads.


Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 117):

I can definitely make out the Malaysian logo on one of those pictures from the Satellite. I expected better quality pictures than that from a satellite costing millions. Have they purposely blurred these pictures?

I can't see anything but the fact one of the image sets is a multi-spectral image which could tell more than what we can see in a false colour flattened version.

Quoting garpd (Reply 119):
What satellite image? I see lots of references to them, but no links.
http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/incidents/images/DIGO_00718_01_14.jpg
http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/incidents/images/DIGO_00718_02_14.jpg

[Edited 2014-03-21 04:27:02 by SA7700]
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:27 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 119):

What satellite image? I see lots of references to them, but no links.

They have been linked to numerous times. But if you are expecting to see a MH logo, I think you'll be disappointed.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjJxqOSCEAA0FDd.jpg:large

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjJuIzwCUAAz_ca.jpg
 
Backseater
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:29 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 112):
If the plane was stationary for all seven pings it would result in a totally differnt arc estimate which would look very unusual and would be a lot shorter than the final ping we see which is just about when the plane would have run out of fuel.

Really??? based on what?

Quoting tomlee (Reply 112):
The running assumption is the plane flew on for ~7 hours

Ah Ah! Now I get it. The demonstration that it is not stationary is because the "running assumption" is that it flew for 7 hours!!!!
 
mika
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:35 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 120):
can definitely make out the Malaysian logo on one of those pictures from the Satellite. I expected better quality pictures than that from a satellite costing millions. Have they purposely blurred these pictures?

I personally, as a complete layman i grant that, can't even say that it is an actual object. I would name those images "possible objects possibly related to the MH370 search" rather than "Objects possibly related to the MH370 search".

I assume that the one who called those as definitive objects did so with certainity, which to me is an impressive feat.

Anyways, have they been located physically to this point? Are they still in the area?
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:36 am

Quoting BackSeater (Reply 123):

No it still got to that ping area which is very far how exactly do you get there without flying there. This is why having it stationary would have resulted in different pings (including the end one) and the end area would not even come close to getting near conspiracy land.

Your now twisting my words and fitting whatever is told to you to bend it to fit your conspiracy theory. I don't actually care about the cause just finding the plane, and stopping it from happening again. Random conspiracy theories don't help with that search and if they are so capable then there is no point and we should bow to their master plan........

The assumption of 7 hours makes sense because that is how far it got form the sat if it landed there is no way to get that far and not show up on the sat pings as a gap or a significant anomaly.

Once we get better ELT technology this type of event won't happen anymore and this type of run on random theory generator will also be averted in the future.
 
flood
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:36 am

Quoting BackSeater (Reply 123):
The demonstration that it is not stationary is because the "running assumption" is that it flew for 7 hours!!!!

"Engineers at Inmarsat Plc (ISAT), whose satellite picked up the pings, plotted seven positions for the Boeing Co. (BA) 777-200ER on March 8, Chris McLaughlin, a company spokesman, said in an interview. The plane flew steadily away from the satellite over the equator while pinging, McLaughlin said."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...over-ocean-inmarsat-estimates.html
 
NAV30
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:37 am

One can usually trust the Melbourne Age at least to move things back towards some sort of normality.

I said a few days ago that I couldn't readily envisage two active and successful career pilots concluding some sort of 'suicide pact' in order to sacrifice the lives of over 200 people, and their own lives, for no apparent reason. As the Age puts it:-

"The location of debris from the Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 in the southern Indian Ocean would eliminate some of the wilder theories about what happened to the plane and would lean towards the likelihood of an emergency on the flight, an attempt by the crew to turn back and complications that caused them to fall into unconsciousness leaving the plane on a ghost flight until it ran out of fuel.

"While some sort of botched hijacking that led to the pilots being killed cannot be ruled out entirely, it seems very unlikely given the location of the possible wreckage. The hijack theory would have more credence if MH370 was located along the north-western flight path towards the Middle East. The trajectory might have even pointed to the political motivation.

"The location also seems to rule out the hijack theories, because there are no airports along the southern flight path.

"Far more plausible is the theory, favoured for days now by professional pilots on chat sites and blogs, that the pilots had an event on board that took out the communications and led to a slow or rapid decompression which rendered the crew incapable of making an emergency landing."


http://www.theage.com.au/national/mi...r-flight-mh370-20140320-35620.html

I stand by my view that the basic problem was some sort of mechanical fault which caused the sudden ascent, after take-off, to 45,000 feet. Which led to problems on the flight-deck, possibly including de-pressurisation and/or a fire. Which led, in turn, to the pilots turning back to Malaysia (heading a bit south of west) with a view to an emergency landing. But that they were unable to accomplish this, due to fire or fumes or whatever. Which left the aeroplane (flying on autopilot) continuing on a south-west course, into the trackless Pacific, until the fuel ran out; with no human pilots being in a position to intervene.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:38 am

Quoting mika (Reply 124):
I personally, as a complete layman i grant that, can't even say that it is an actual object. I would name those images "possible objects possibly related to the MH370 search" rather than "Objects possibly related to the MH370 search".

I assume that the one who called those as definitive objects did so with certainity, which to me is an impressive feat.

Anyways, have they been located physically to this point? Are they still in the area?

I think your misquoting me a bit, that isn't my quote and the I must have broke the quote block on an edit I think. I don't see anything either but the multi-spectral might see something we can't.
 
Mir
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:38 am

Quoting enobar (Reply 115):
A quick scan of wiki says that PC3 Orion's aren't capable of aerial refuelling but are the P8's?

From earlier in the thread (probably a different number), the P8's have the necessary plumbing, but are not certified to do so.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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garpd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:39 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 120):
http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/incidents/images/DIGO_00718_01_14.jpg
http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/inciden...4.jpg

Ah those ones!

Sorry, I see nothing remotely resembling a logo on those images. I stared at them for an hour or so through the day when released.

I thought with people saying "I can see a logo" they were referring to different images.

Thank you for the links though.
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liquidair
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:43 am

Quoting flood (Reply 126):

erm, I'm not sure i get it... The only possible way the plane could have flown over the equator is if it headed south....

so why not exclude the north?
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
372375
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:46 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 131):
erm, I'm not sure i get it... The only possible way the plane could have flown over the equator is if it headed south....

so why not exclude the north?

The article states "flew steadily away", they didn't say it crossed the equator
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:47 am

Quoting flood (Reply 126):
"Engineers at Inmarsat Plc (ISAT), whose satellite picked up the pings, plotted seven positions for the Boeing Co. (BA) 777-200ER on March 8, Chris McLaughlin, a company spokesman, said in an interview. The plane flew steadily away from the satellite over the equator while pinging, McLaughlin said."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...over-ocean-inmarsat-estimates.html

Thank you, as I have been saying on repeat for ever they used all the data and they basically debunked a good bulk of the conspiracy theories about shadowing, landing, ... (But as usually with conspiracy theories you can't really stop them from bending any bit of information to fit) The media and people should stop going into sci-fi/fantasy theory land as it is generating news articles which will cause unfounded false hopes and further anguish with people who actually have family and relatives on the flight itself. They need closure and saying that terrorists or some evil government organization has kidnapped or otherwise stolen the plane isn't helping.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 131):
erm, I'm not sure i get it... The only possible way the plane could have flown over the equator is if it headed south....

so why not exclude the north?

Inmarsat only provides a distance from the sat (Which is over the equator) so when they say away the equator it is both north and south from what I understand. (It is pretty rough estimate too and is not like GPS in any way)
 
mika
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:50 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 128):

I think your misquoting me a bit, that isn't my quote and the I must have broke the quote block on an edit I think. I don't see anything either but the multi-spectral might see something we can't.

My appologies, it wasn't my intention!
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:53 am

Quoting mika (Reply 134):
My appologies, it wasn't my intention!

No problem. I should have caught the broken quote block within the edit window.

We will have to wait and see for the AMSA search they didn't find anything yet as per their latest updates but for a visual search in open ocean conditions I can see how it could take some time to complete with a good confidence. This process will take weeks potentially as the drift and accuracy of the final location is not firm.

Edit: And they still haven't had enough data to exclude the reduced northern area entirely.

[Edited 2014-03-21 04:55:04]
 
liquidair
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:55 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 133):
The plane flew steadily away from the satellite over the equator while pinging, McLaughlin said."
Quoting rebr (Reply 132):

sorry, there words used are confusing- the over the equator part could refer to either the plane or the satellite.

however, knowing that the satellite IS over the equator, means quite rightly the over must refer to satellite and away can only refer to the plane.

But you'd have to know where that satellite is. The average reader won't...
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
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p51tang
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:56 am

My first post: And here's my take on MH370.

1/ Suicide Theory: Not a winner here,as the pilots were avid enthusiasts with immense pride and thrived on responsibility to the global community.If it was an act of (In command) suicide,that plane is going down on it's original flight path.That's what human training precipitates.

2/ Plane Malfunction: Switching ACARS off, is a sure sign that the plane is functioning correctly.

3/ Act of Terrorism/Hijacking: Two stolen Passports originating from Thailand.(Plausible rip-offs of the original passport holders identity) Two separate end destinations for two Iranian Nationals on-board the same flight.

It has to be said that number 3 is standing out like dogs balls.If I have a point to prove.I'm taking 200+ lives and running it into the deepest Trench within the fuel load capability of this man made machine.I have two options at my disposal.The Java Trench (7,725 metres) or the Diamantina Trench AKA: Diamantina Deep (7,299 m).

The Java Trench is far to close to land.Resources can be deployed within a major land mass.The Diamantina however is virtually straight-line from the original flightpath but in the opposite direction.Just within the fuel load range of the 777.Incredibly remote.Huge $$$ to investigate this one.Huge grief for the family's involved.No NTSB report within 2 years at least.

The debris located so far has drifted approx 1,000 km south of the Diamantina Trench.At a rate of 100 km per day over 10 days.That would seem plausible to me.

Question:

Why no ship sitting above the Diamantina Trench listening for the Black Box Beacon?.Which must be close to (I gave you everything I had) but you no try???.

My take.That's all.....
 
imagoagnitio
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:57 am

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 126):

My thinking as well.
 
David L
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:58 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 130):
The only possible way the plane could have flown over the equator is if it headed south....

The satellite is "over the equator". Perhaps that's what they meant.

Edit: Ah, too slow!

[Edited 2014-03-21 04:59:35]
 
mouldypete
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:59 am

Quoting tomlee (Reply 118):
I think in my opinion that the smart people at inmarsat who where the first ones to develop this method with the NTSB which already narrowed the search area already did that. They used all the data they have, we just see the results. (I'm amazed they can even get results as good as they show)(They call it the last ping because it is just that but that doesn't mean they ignored everything before)

To issue the satellite angular calculations for the other pings would do no harm IMO. The Inmarsat/NTSB collaboration discussed above seems very likely.

That the NTSB have issued a request for the Australians to search an area with the termination of two closely spaced NTSB tracks indicates that the NTSB is theorising that the A/C was flown in a straight path until it ran out of fuel sometime after the last ping at 8:11am. The southern extension of the search area being their take on the extreme range.

From this we can assume that their model has all of the ping calculations consistent with this flight path being straight and at a normal cruising speed.

If you look at the NW flight path, the relationship between the satellite angles and the pings would be very essentially the same.
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2.../mh370/images/9/9a/Final_map_2.jpg

Any start point you choose within the satellite range will have two solutions of identical straight paths to the 40 degree point but they will not be of the length of the maximum flight time nor will the pings indicate a normal cruising speed in all cases.

It is interesting to speculate what, if anything, the NTSB has done to request a search at the end of the other postulated flight track to the NW.

[Edited 2014-03-21 05:07:00]
 
shortstack81
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:01 pm

If you want to see Malaysia Airlines's logo in those images, you will. Many people experienced this going through the Tomnod images, and people experience this all the time with faces on mars and the moon and shapes in clouds, images of deities in toast and stains and other things, and the like.

It's pareildolia.

For me the images of the objects are too ill-defined to say what they are. I believe they're real but they could be trash (and really, my goodness, this incident has really revealed to me how dirty the oceans are!) or whales just below the surface or who knows. And I stared and stared hard at those images and have some limited experience with remote sensing. I can't tell what it is, but again, my experience is pretty limited.
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:03 pm

Quoting P51Tang (Reply 136):
3/ Act of Terrorism/Hijacking: Two stolen Passports originating from Thailand.(Plausible rip-offs of the original passport holders identity) Two separate end destinations for two Iranian Nationals on-board the same flight.

International agencies actually found no link for the two stolen passport holders from terrorism/hijacking related concerns. It seems like it was just a case of illegal immigration and they actually where trying to reach their intended destinations from what I read.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26525281
 
imatams
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:06 pm

The images released by AMSA give to images for both the object under investigation. One is panchromatic, the other 'multispectral'

-'Multispectral' means, I presume, that other data than visual imagery was included in the image. Can anyone explain?

-The multispectral image -to me- gives a much clearer outline of the object, showing an object that could be wing-shaped (or indeed box-shaped) The panchromatic image is much more blurry. Yet media seems to be showing mostly the latter image. Is the multispectral image less reliable?

-In the multispectral image there seems to be some kind of structure in a rough X shape attached to the main object (on the near side) Any indication of what that could be? If it is indeed a wing I imagine it could be part of the AC frame still attached, like fusalage spars or part of the wing box, but what else could it be?

http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/incidents/images/DIGO_00718_01_14.jpg

Thanks!
 
cand
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:06 pm

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 127):
I stand by my view that the basic problem was some sort of mechanical fault which caused the sudden ascent, after take-off, to 45,000 feet. Which led to problems on the flight-deck, possibly including de-pressurisation and/or a fire. Which led, in turn, to the pilots turning back to Malaysia (heading a bit south of west) with a view to an emergency landing. But that they were unable to accomplish this, due to fire or fumes or whatever. Which left the aeroplane (flying on autopilot) continuing on a south-west course, into the trackless Pacific, until the fuel ran out; with no human pilots being in a position to intervene.

So something like an explosion in the cockpit takes out the transponder, ACARS and radios and de-pressurizes the plane. Boeing should feel quite guilty if there is a common cause that can disable all communications in a plane capable of flying for another 7 hours.

And all that happens exactly in the two minutes between KUL ATC and HoChiMin ATC (Singapore ATC which is usually skipped).
More unexplained: why turn west? OK, maybe due to the initial failure. But then why turn NW? And later why turn S?
 
Backseater
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:07 pm

Quoting tomlee (Reply 125):
Your now twisting my words and fitting whatever is told to you to bend it to fit your conspiracy theory.

I really don't subscribe to any conspiracy theory and have nothing to prove. I just notice that you seem to be the only one fighting tooth and nails for not releasing the previous ping estimates to anyone outside the anointed investigative team. That is puzzling to me and I think to a number of others.

The Acting Transport Minister explained how the data was analyzed a couple of times. Then on March 14th the US and UK concurred. Great! But concurred on what? That the last position should be somewhere in the published corridors? Ok, everybody agrees at this point.

But my question remains. What are the available distance(ping) estimates and what is their margin of error? That should be very easy to answer since they have so thoroughly analyzed the available data, wouldn't you think?
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:15 pm

Quoting BackSeater (Reply 144):
Quoting flood (Reply 125):
"Engineers at Inmarsat Plc (ISAT), whose satellite picked up the pings, plotted seven positions for the Boeing Co. (BA) 777-200ER on March 8, Chris McLaughlin, a company spokesman, said in an interview. The plane flew steadily away from the satellite over the equator while pinging, McLaughlin said."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...over-ocean-inmarsat-estimates.html

See news article posted by flood. Many theories are dead. The end.

How about we talk about ELT modifications and the current search efforts in the southern sea. What do you see in the sat images. I don't see much but maybe the multi-spectral has more data than the flattened image.
 
NAV30
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:18 pm

Quoting cand (Reply 143):
More unexplained: why turn west? OK, maybe due to the initial failure. But then why turn NW?

If you look at a map of Malaya, cand, you'll see that the central airports are all at pretty high altitudes, surrounded by mountains, whereas the more northerly ones are pretty well at ground level.

Very possible that the captain decided to head for the lower ones - especially if, among other things, he had de-pressurisation issues to deal with?

[Edited 2014-03-21 05:20:06]
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:31 pm

Quoting enobar (Reply 115):
A quick scan of wiki says that PC3 Orion's aren't capable of aerial refuelling but are the P8's?

They're designed for it, but it's not yet operational.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
dc9northwest
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41

Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:33 pm

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 146):
If you look at a map of Malaya, cand, you'll see that the central airports are all at pretty high altitudes, surrounded by mountains, whereas the more northerly ones are pretty well at ground level.

Very possible that the captain decided to head for the lower ones - especially if, among other things, he had de-pressurisation issues to deal with?

I think he means NW afterwards, when they were over the Strait of Malacca.

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