MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

SA7700 · Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:04 am

Some members may not be aware of the fact that all members have an edit window of 60 minutes, from the time you first make a post in which to add or remove any additional comments or information into/from the post. Please make use of this feature made available to you, for your own convenience, instead of posting one post after another (doubles, triples or more).

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Due to length part 43 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 44:

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 1 (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 29 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32 (by ManuCH Mar 17 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 17 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 34 (by SA7700 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35 (by SA7700 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 36 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37 (by SA7700 Mar 19 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 38 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 19 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 39 (by SA7700 Mar 20 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40 (by SA7700 Mar 20 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 41 (by SA7700 Mar 20 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 42 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 21 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 43 (by SA7700 Mar 22 2014 in Civil Aviation)

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**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: What we know so far

MISSING MH370: Timeline

Flight MH370: Police focus on pilots as search for airliner goes on - live updates

Flight MH370: New timeline casts doubt on pilot deception theory

MISSING MH370: ACARS cannot be disabled

MISSING MH370: Search for missing aircraft above politics: Hishamuddin

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lazybones · Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:14 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 251 - Thread Part 43):
"The Kiwi's managed to find a wooden pallet, apparently there are some straps connected to this item which points to possible wreckage, consistent with air cargo from what I read ?"

I'm 90% sold this is wreckage from MH370. The next big question is where is the rest of her? If the French are right, they have found a debris field nearly 1000kms north of where we are currently looking. The final salvage could take longer than AF447.

davidzill · Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:33 am

Sounds like there are additional observations reports of possible wreckage coming in now, this time from a Chinese military aircraft. On to the other big development, that the 777 made a rapid descent to 12,000' might indicate a deliberate maneuver performed in reaction a rapid cabin depressurization. I'm beginning to lean towards the idea there was NO foul play, and that this is a tragic incident involving either (1) cargo induced fire...(2) electrical fire...(that were both possibly extinguished possibly after the crew was disabled). This is not the first incident involving the turning off of a transponder with a following catastrophe, I think we are putting too much wait to this and that the transponder being turned off may have very little to do with what actually happened. It may turn out that with a closer look those systems may have been disabled by a fire in the E & E bay and that the pilots may have been overwhelmed with smoke in the cabin and cockpit, as well as loss of many but not all of the electrical systems, combined with being zero dark thirty over the ocean, these guys had everything going against them. Initial maneuver MAY indicate an immediate direct vector towards a divert field on Palau island or maybe a return to the original airport. Or maybe the two Iranian men had shoe bomb type weapons. Again, I believe we should put more credibility towards the observations from the gentleman on the oil rig.

koruman · Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:38 am

I have concerns about multiple countries being invited to send their aircraft to the search area, including nations which have previously released satellite pictures and other "evidence" which sent the SAR mission to the wrong ocean after the aircraft disappeared.

If I had something to hide in location A, would I consider dropping freight palettes or wreckage I had had in Location A in the vicinity of Location B?

Any old country currently seems to be free to overfly this area and drop into the ocean whatever "evidence" it cares to.

Last week's Malaysian briefings effectively mean that this area is a crime scene.

And the unrestricted access allowed to military aircraft from half a dozen countries has ensured that it is now a contaminated crime scene, in which no wreckage can be taken at face value.

[Edited 2014-03-23 23:51:50]

davidzill · Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:38 am

Quoting lazybones (Reply 1):
I'm 90% sold this is wreckage from MH370. The next big question is where is the rest of her? If the French are right, they have found a debris field nearly 1000kms north of where we are currently looking. The final salvage could take longer than AF447.

Yes indeed, the volatile and powerful currents and choppy seas have probably swept debris all over the place...so possibly where we finally find confirmed pieces of the aircraft may be hundred of miles away from where the aircraft impacted at sea. I believe we will take diligent work from scientist to come up with an accurate computer model of the currents using historical weather data from day one to possibly "back-track" debris to where they originated weeks ago.

slinky09 · Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:43 am

Quoting lazybones (Reply 1):
I'm 90% sold this is wreckage from MH370. The next big question is where is the rest of her? If the French are right, they have found a debris field nearly 1000kms north of where we are currently looking. The final salvage could take longer than AF447.

After the number of intense cyclones and tsunamis in the wider region in recent years, there could be all manner of debris littering the oceans. Before any certainty can be reached, it has to be positively ID'd.

LandSweetLand · Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:00 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 3):
And the unrestricted access allowed to military aircraft from half a dozen countries has ensured that it is now a contaminated crime scene, in which no wreckage can be taken at face value.

Isn't it international airspace though? There's not a lot a country can do to stop them (short of things that could be taken as acts of war).

namezero111111 · Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:04 am

=

Quoting koruman (Reply 3):
I have concerns about multiple countries being invited to send their aircraft to the search area, including nations which have previously released satellite pictures and other "evidence" which sent the SAR mission to the wrong ocean after the aircraft disappeared.

If I had something to hide in location A, would I consider dropping freight palettes or wreckage I had had in Location A in the vicinity of Location B?

Well I suppose it would be possible. However, this seems rather unlikely, if compared to the possibility that someone just misinterpreted image data.
Also, if I had something to hide in location A, why would I first say "Hey, I found something at A!". Or do you mean they actually had something to hide at C?

Either way, I don't think this possibility would have to be considered at this point.

ExpatExp · Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:49 am

Quoting MarkAK (Reply 219):
I don't know what to make of the fact that INMARSAT does not publish the arcs for other than the last ping.

While it might lead to more speculation and confusion to release that data, I wonder if it might simply be embarassing (and saving face is important in many places over there). For example, perhaps those additional arcs, in conjunction with other available data, indicate that the aircraft entered the airspace of countries who have previously denied it… Or who didn't notice…

Quoting koruman (Reply 3):
If I had something to hide in location A, would I consider dropping freight palettes or wreckage I had had in Location A in the vicinity of Location B?

I was thinking the same thing…

checksixx · Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:10 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 3):
Last week's Malaysian briefings effectively mean that this area is a crime scene.

And the unrestricted access allowed to military aircraft from half a dozen countries has ensured that it is now a contaminated crime scene, in which no wreckage can be taken at face value.

LoL...and just how are they contaminating the 'crime scene'? In fact the crime scene is the wreckage itself and without these aircraft looking, no one may ever find it. Do you proffer that these aircraft may be dropping false debris into the area? If so...why? I ask because I don't think you're grasping just how far out they're looking...if you did, your theory would be absurd. Now if we were talking a far smaller confined area, the I suppose it would be possible.

pvjin · Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:26 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 3):
And the unrestricted access allowed to military aircraft from half a dozen countries has ensured that it is now a contaminated crime scene, in which no wreckage can be taken at face value.

Ocean currents have surely carried all the floating parts far away from the original crash site already. Besides, most likely all the relevant stuff (wreckage, black boxes) are at bottom of the Indian Ocean already.

Quoting koruman (Reply 3):
If I had something to hide in location A, would I consider dropping freight palettes or wreckage I had had in Location A in the vicinity of Location B?

Nobody is trying to hide anything.

2008matt · Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:33 am

Reports in that a Chinese plane has spotted 2 large and several smaller objects spread over a few miles in the search area.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26678492

monjonman · Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:40 am

My guess is the smaller square type objects are the foam boxes used to pack the fruit in.

lazybones · Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:47 am

Davidzill reply 2.. totally with you on this one.

The Malaysian investgators keep using the line the plane was deliberately taken off course. Yup! by a crew who were trying to trouble shoot a serious problem and return base. Nothing malicious what so ever.

monjonman · Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:28 am

The reports are the Aussies on HMAS Success are about to pick up some debri within the next few hours.Lets hope this gives some direction on where to find the black box.

LXLucien · Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:02 am

One thing we've already learned from this whole thing:
The oceans are full of garbage!

damirc · Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:05 am

Quoting lazybones (Reply 14):

The Malaysian investgators keep using the line the plane was deliberately taken off course. Yup! by a crew who were trying to trouble shoot a serious problem and return base. Nothing malicious what so ever.

And the crew proceeded to enter a few waypoints towards the NW while they diagnose the problem? Does not compute.

In regards to the Langkawi theories. The airport was closed, as it is closed each and every day at that time:

http://aip.dca.gov.my/aip%20pdf/AD/A.../WMKK-Langkawi%20International.pdf

D.

nupogodi · Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:48 pm

CTV News is saying there have been developments in the search and that the PM will make a statement at 1000EDT/1400Z.

That's 10PM KUL time, pretty late for a statement, must be important...

Canadians can watch live here: http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=6...7&binId=1.810401&playlistPageNum=1

LXLucien · Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:08 pm

according to BBC, MH send an sms to the relatives:

Quote:
Malaysian Airlines says it now has to assume "beyond any reasonable doubt" that missing flight MH370 has been lost and there are no survivors.

The announcement came in a text message, seen by the BBC, that was sent to families of those on board.

.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26716572

RJA321 · Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:09 pm

It seems they've concluded that MH370 ended up in the Indian Ocean.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...e-spots-white-objects-live-updates

RIP to all on board.

na · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:00 pm

So tomorrow we´ll hear some details. There must be more than just the calculations of the Inmarsat technicians to have the PM announce that the plane went down way west of Perth.

[Edited 2014-03-24 09:27:58]

flyingturtle · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:06 pm

Quoting na (Reply 21):

Apparently, INMARSAT re-calculated all the information they already had, and arrived at a much narrower area where MH370 flew last. They also had to take other aircrafts' signals into account, and do several modelling runs on their computers.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-26720772 gives some hints. They may have been aware that one can calculate positions from INMARSAT data, but MH370 forced them to develop the tools to actually do it, and refine them.

Pretty astounding if you ask me - but I await tomorrow's press conference as well.

David

[Edited 2014-03-24 09:10:36]

loalq · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:07 pm

By sms? Really? I know it is probaby very hard to try and reach the families of 239 people at once, but I kinda of missed the moment when humanity started thinking that it is ok to tell that a loved has passed via sms...not nice...

Miami · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:07 pm

The Malaysian Prime Minister concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight 370 crashed into the southern Indian Ocean, with no survivors. The 777 has still not been located.

R.I.P. To all the people on board. My thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends. May the victims rest in peace.

-Miami

brilondon · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:09 pm

I don't know why it took them this long to make that determination. It would seem that that conclusion should have been arrived at sooner if they were disclosing all their information and not trying to misinform and mislead the public. How trustworthy are politicians in todays world?

hivue · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:09 pm

Looks the forum's back up.

So apparently Inmarsat has used Doppler info from the "pings" to eliminate the northern arc and better pinpoint the loci on the southern arc. I gather that they compared MH370's signals to signals where they knew where the airplanes went and developed some kind of model or pattern. (I wonder if that explains the stories about a Gulfstream and an A319 or A320 being part of the SAR effort?)

Tugger · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:12 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 25):
I don't know why it took them this long to make that determination. It would seem that that conclusion should have been arrived at sooner if they were disclosing all their information and not trying to misinform and mislead the public. How trustworthy are politicians in todays world?

According the BBC article linked above, this was cutting edge analysis by Inmarsat that lead to this conclusion. Cramming months worth of work into a couple weeks. Not wasting time or attempts at misleading.

Tugg

Gonzalo · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:13 pm

Quoting loalq (Reply 23):
By sms? Really? I know it is probaby very hard to try and reach the families of 239 people at once, but I kinda of missed the moment when humanity started thinking that it is ok to tell that a loved has passed via sms...not nice...

Pretty disrespectful if you ask me.... although I think we all knew the chances of a miracle were very remote, the way MH is handling this delicate issue is very unfortunate.

So, regarding the ( now confirmed ) crash, when we all have AF447 as the most challenging recovery effort in history, MH370 is certainly becoming a much more difficult operation, more remote, more deep... Who will be in charge ? And who will pay the bill ? ( MH by itself clearly can't ).

Rgds.
G.

theaviator380 · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:13 pm

Quoting loalq (Reply 23):

That's not exactly true. Check this out > http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...e-spots-white-objects-live-updates

I doubt MAS will be that callus.

[Edited 2014-03-24 09:13:52]

flyingturtle · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:14 pm

Quoting loalq (Reply 23):
By sms? Really? I know it is probaby very hard to try and reach the families of 239 people at once, but I kinda of missed the moment when humanity started thinking that it is ok to tell that a loved has passed via sms...not nice...

Cultural differences, perhaps. Perhaps in other regions of the world you're ready to accept such news via SMS. Perhaps MH has already used a stream of SMS to inform the relatives of the newest information, so they can prepare for possible interview requests from journalists. This could have been the leading factor in the decision to use SMS.

After all, MH most probably told the relatives that the missing loved ones are already dead, and that they need to prepare for the worst.

David

GiveMeABreak · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:17 pm

Thanks to the Inmarsat guys for all their hard work. Please note that without their "pings" we would have been all over the place. My heart goes out to all the families and next to kin left behind.
Lets get to the reason of why this had to happen, and my hope is that this will never repeat again! RIP all.

harry1983 · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:18 pm

Quoting loalq (Reply 23):

They were told face to face at the hotel, and the people who were not present, for whom this was not possible, were informed by text.

A little less personal than a phone call, I agree, but fades in comparison to the insensitivity of the gutter press spewing pictures of the very recently bereaved fainting and crying all over social media in the name of 'news'.

reffado · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:18 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 28):
And who will pay the bill ?

Assuming Governments don't and MH doesn't either, I would say Boeing will have a play. They can't just have one of their best selling jetliners go missing for this long and simply ignore it. Although, I believe it's in everyone's interest to find out exactly what happened, and ensure it never happens again.

theaviator380 · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:18 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 28):

Please see my first reply. I doubt there is any truth in that, I have seen one picture where one of the relative of pax on board was crying and Malaysian acting transport minister was giving him support and trying to console him.

MAS have issued statement that their top management officials have met family face to face to give this news.

NDiesel · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:20 pm

Now that the crash is more or less confirmed, what strikes me is how terrifying this must have been for those on board, flying in the wrong direction for hours. Wouldn't it have been daylight too when the crash happened?

hivue · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:22 pm

Quoting NDiesel (Reply 35):
what strikes me is how terrifying this must have been for those on board, flying in the wrong direction for hours.

If they were conscious.

Gonzalo · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:22 pm

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 34):
Please see my first reply. I doubt there is any truth in that, I have seen one picture where one of the relative of pax on board was crying and Malaysian acting transport minister was giving him support and trying to console him.

MAS have issued statement that their top management officials have met family face to face to give this news.

That's not what all the big news networks ( including BBC which has made a very good job this past weeks ), are showing. The sms messages are a fact. If they have top management officials handling the situation, then they shouldn't send sms of any kind.

Rgds.
G.

btfarrwm · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:25 pm

Quoting davidzill (Reply 2):
On to the other big development, that the 777 made a rapid descent to 12,000' might indicate a deliberate maneuver performed in reaction a rapid cabin depressurization. I'm beginning to lean towards the idea there was NO foul play, and that this is a tragic incident involving either (1) cargo induced fire...(2) electrical fire...(that were both possibly extinguished possibly after the crew was disabled). This is not the first incident involving the turning off of a transponder with a following catastrophe, I think we are putting too much wait to this and that the transponder being turned off may have very little to do with what actually happened.

In this scenario, the pilots were probably trying to change to an emergency squawk code when things got out of control.

flyenthu · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:26 pm

It is something we all knew but dreaded. Truly one of a kind incident. May the loved ones start healing.

capri · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:27 pm

well this means tomorrow we may see first debris, until now all this is an assumption beyond reasonable doubt from various high tech conclusion

People need concrete evidence or you never hear the end of it, this is human nature and behaviour

solarflyer22 · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:28 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 26):
(I wonder if that explains the stories about a Gulfstream and an A319 or A320 being part of the SAR effort?)

Yeah, that was my thinking exactly. Recreate the Ping pattern from another plane flying in that region as a model. It probably confirmed what we already knew. There was no way that plane could have snuck past all the radars on the northern route and then landed or crashed without anyone noticing.

Trin · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:29 pm

Quoting btfarrwm (Reply 38):
Quoting davidzill (Reply 2):
On to the other big development, that the 777 made a rapid descent to 12,000' might indicate a deliberate maneuver performed in reaction a rapid cabin depressurization. I'm beginning to lean towards the idea there was NO foul play, and that this is a tragic incident involving either (1) cargo induced fire...(2) electrical fire...(that were both possibly extinguished possibly after the crew was disabled). This is not the first incident involving the turning off of a transponder with a following catastrophe, I think we are putting too much wait to this and that the transponder being turned off may have very little to do with what actually happened.

In this scenario, the pilots were probably trying to change to an emergency squawk code when things got out of control.

But how on earth does this jive with the plane continuing to fly for 7hrs, and ending up in the southern Indian Ocean? I am asking this out of pure bewilderment, as opposed to just being obstinate. I just can't imagine the fluke series of events you would have to have transpire to cause A) Loss of all communications, Ab) this event just HAPPENED to occure at ATC zone handover, B) transponder turned off, C) sharp left turn, D) flying over waypoints west of Malaysia, E) descent to 12Kft (if this happened), F) incapaciation of crew and pax, G) but not something deadly to the airframe itself, and H) with the loss of all onboard communications, control and lives/consciousness (said catastrophic event, bear in mind, also not allowing for cellphone calls to be made!), the airplace still flew itself for 7 hrs.

I'm just completely agape at how something like this could happen without any maydays or 7700 squawks or anything.....makes me lean towards a lone wolf terrorist or something.

[Edited 2014-03-24 09:33:01]

[Edited 2014-03-24 09:34:57]

hivue · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:30 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 41):
It probably confirmed what we already knew. There was no way that plane could have snuck past all the radars on the northern route and then landed or crashed without anyone noticing.

And maybe the sent "test" aircraft along the northern route as well.

BA84 · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:32 pm

Quoting NDiesel (Reply 35):
Now that the crash is more or less confirmed, what strikes me is how terrifying this must have been for those on board, flying in the wrong direction for hours. Wouldn't it have been daylight too when the crash happened?

They were incapacitated, or dead, not terrified.
They just went to sleep.

flood · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:33 pm

Quoting na (Reply 21):
There must be more than just the calculations of the Inmarsat technicians

It's worth noting that, in an interview with CNN, an Inmarsat VP said their conclusion was peer reviewed by the industry and Boeing had contributed.

cpw · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:34 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 27):
According the BBC article linked above, this was cutting edge analysis by Inmarsat that lead to this conclusion. Cramming months worth of work into a couple weeks.

I think this is going to be one of the takeaways from this whole event. This investigation is dynamic -- people are learning how to analyze limited data to come to a better understanding of where the plane is, and "fill in the blanks." While at times is may seem like the authorities are changing their story or not releasing data (even though that may have happened on occasion - that's somewhat irrelevant at this point), I think much of the dynamic changes to the common operating picture is due to an evolving understanding of what the data are telling us.

This is, for all intents and purposes, a criminal investigation until proven otherwise. It's being conducted by multiple countries, all with varying levels of transparency. If information doesn't need to be released to the media and/or the Internet, whether in the form of full-resolution satellite images, or specific details of the cargo on board, or specific ping plots for all pings, it won't be. The people who need to have the information (i.e. NTSB, and other various investigative agencies around the world), and who have the capability to fully analyze it, likely have all they need. We won't know, because we don't need to know.

Are some of the conspiracy theories plausible, especially considering how sketchy the data were early on? Sure. With the data that has been released by the authorities to date, are they still plausible? Probably not so much.

EVAAIRBR076 · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:34 pm

Well maybe a bit naive, but let me see the debris first till I believe it is true. Those Malaysians swing too much with their information during the press conferences since day one.

na · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:35 pm

Quoting Reffado (Reply 33):
Assuming Governments don't and MH doesn't either, I would say Boeing will have a play. They can't just have one of their best selling jetliners go missing for this long and simply ignore it. Although, I believe it's in everyone's interest to find out exactly what happened, and ensure it never happens again.

That´ll be quite interesting to see who´ll pay in the end for this massive SAR operation, probably the most expensive in history. Malaysia, China and Boeing will likely have to pay for the biggest chunk. Some countries will write of their cost as an exercise in desaster relief and reconnaisance. It´ll depend on the cause how much Boeing will pay. Every 777 operator will be very keen to know wether there´s something wrong with the plane.

[Edited 2014-03-24 09:38:11]

theaviator380 · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:35 pm

Quoting Trin (Reply 42):

If someone wanted to do this as deliberate act why would they declare May Day or squawk 7700 ? So you not buying theory of pilot suicide ?

If you interested have a look at reply 122 from thread number 40.

Cheers.

capri · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:36 pm

from conference today, MH CEO said co-pilot was his first flight unsupervised and the captain was a qualified examiner, could it be the captain stepped out while they settle in cruise and something happened, co-pilot panicked that he never thought that his first flight will face emergency, he dialled wrong frequencies and was transmitting in the blind and by the time the captain got back, it was chaotic

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