Kaiarahi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:03 pm

Quoting capri (Reply 88):
I spoke about MH370 FO, who quoted me spoke about AF447 FO

Perhaps you're not familiar with what YOU said:

Quoting capri (Reply 58):
at least there are few commonility with AF447. one of them is a brand new co-pilot who was just checked out in a 777 and doing his first flight with no check co-pilot,

As I noted, the AF447 FO (PF) had 807 hours on type, including 61 hours in the preceding 30 days. Hardly "commonality".
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:03 pm

On a news website, it is frustrating to read comments that MH370 has landed on Diego Garcia. And they say that it is all fishy, INMARSAT should have handed over its "position" data two weeks ago...

Quoting TheRedBAron (Reply 93):
NO. you can't jump from a airplane. DB cooper did it in the rear stairs of a 727 with the gear down and flying low and as slow as possible...even then there was no warranty he survived.... On a 777 there is no rear (below fuselage door/stairs)...

 

It is possible, as proven by a guy from the Philippines. On a 330. As he used a home-made parachute, it was the impact that killed him.

But as airport security and baggage scanners have been interviewed, we should know about a smuggled parachute by now.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
MSY-MSP
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:04 pm

Well, I have to say while the southern crash arc didn't make sense to me earlier on, after speaking with a former 777 captain now 747 captain we were able to hash through a possible scenario that makes some sense.

Right after the handoff from Malaysian ATC, there is a complete failure of the cockpit electrics, panels all go dark, for a few seconds. This may be coupled with the cabin altitude warning or error.

Captain realizes that he has a problem that includes possible cabin and electrical brings the plane down to 12000 and turns back towards the peninsula in anticipation of making an emergency landing.

At some point in this the electronics come back up at least in part (comms are still out). Upon reaching 12000 feet the crew is able to stabilize the pressure (warning may have been a by product of the electrical failure/glitch)

At some point here in the crew realizes that the aircraft is flying too fast for the altitude. They then find that the throttles are non-responsive and the engines are just turning away. So they make the decision to climb back to 295 to keep the aircraft from overspeeding. As they realize they cannot land the aircraft with the engines running like they were.

Realizing that they have no control of the engines, they make the decision to basically wait the fuel out and then hope to glide to a suitable airport. The idea being that they would just circle Sumatra until such time as the fuel ran out. Once the fuel ran out the idea would be to pick the closest suitable airport and glide to it.

However, at some point along the northern track when the turned south to begin the circling Sumatra the controls became completely unresponsive and the aircraft continued on the heading until it ran out of fuel. With the pilots unable to do anything about it.

Circling Sumatra gave them two advantages. First is that they don't have to worry about terrain. Second it kept them close to shore, for rescue or ditching in the event that they didn't or couldn't make an airport.

This brings the entire thing to a single incident, with the rest being the chain of events that followed from it. Eliminates all of the bad people scenarios and leaves us with a very tragic accident. The worst part of this scenario is the possibility that everyone was well aware of what was happening.
 
captainstefan
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:11 pm

Quoting captainx (Reply 95):
If the cabin was depressurized the exterior doors could be opened, correct? Which door would be easiest to open and jump from?

Probably not. The doors on the 777 pivot out and then toward the nose of the airplane, so unless you have the force to combat 300+kts of wind, you're not opening the door in flight, even if it is unpressurized.
Long Live the Tulip!
 
shortstack81
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:12 pm

Quoting captainx (Reply 78):
After incapacitating the other pilot, crew, and PAX, could the pilot parachute over land at 3-12kft (ala DB Cooper) leaving the 777 to carry on per the "disappear" flight plan set for max range ultimately to the southwest?

I think it's likely they'd paint the wings or tail of the aircraft if they did that with their remains.
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:12 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 101):
As I noted, the AF447 FO (PF) had 807 hours on type, including 61 hours in the preceding 30 days. Hardly "commonality".

that doesn't mean i carbon copied AF447 scenario as was suggested or assumed, talking about assumption that's exactly what Malaysian PM said, "assuming beyond reasonable doubt", everything here is a theory not fact
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:14 pm

Quoting captainx (Reply 98):
Quoting hivue (Reply 89):Quoting captainx (Reply 83):Immersat is saying they assumed 350kt speed. Isn't that rather low?
Source?

Was just on CNN and said this.

I guess that would be GS? I have no idea what the winds aloft were in that area on March 8.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
iberiadc852
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:18 pm

Quoting MSY-MSP (Reply 103):

Is that compatible with nobody making succesful mobile calls?
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
 
AR385
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:18 pm

I have a question:

With the plane at 12,000ft if this turns out to be true. Would cell phones on board have worked at that altitude?
 
captainx
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:18 pm

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 104):
Probably not. The doors on the 777 pivot out and then toward the nose of the airplane, so unless you have the force to combat 300+kts of wind, you're not opening the door in flight, even if it is unpressurized.

Yes, I have verified this. Thanks. All on board took the whole ride apparently.
 
mffoda
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:24 pm

Quoting TheRedBAron (Reply 93):
NO. you can't jump from a airplane. DB cooper did it in the rear stairs of a 727 with the gear down and flying low and as slow as possible...even then there was no warranty he survived....

Check out Qnincy Illinois's annual skydive event that started in 92 and went on for years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0jUus74x9c
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:25 pm

I believe investigators came to their final conclusion that MH370 hit the deck in the remote area of the southern Indian Ocean upon further examination of INMARSAT data. I believe the preliminary examination of the data gave investigators a close but approximate lateral flight route, and a further analysis was able to provide investigators with a possible vertical trajectory the lead to an altitude of 0' MSL.

I believe that the pilots were overwhelmed and disabled by extraordinarily catastrophic conditions that caused the odds to be heavily against them as far as safely landing anywhere goes. I also think it highly unlikely that we will ever find the initial impact sight and the main body of aircraft wreckage where the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder would be.
 
MSY-MSP
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:28 pm

Quoting iberiadc852 (Reply 108):
Is that compatible with nobody making succesful mobile calls?

Yes, it would be. Out in the middle of the straight for a while 50-100 miles from land. When they realized that they had no control of the aircraft they were way too far away for any mobile phone to have a chance of hitting a tower.

It is a theory that we put together, that fits almost all the facts of the case. One other thought we had that I had forgotten to mention is that it could have been a complete no-win scenario. If the cabin did depressurize and then the engines were not responsive, it could be the choice between high altitude with Hypoxia but keep the plane in once piece or fly low and fast and risk the airframe coming apart.
 
captainx
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:30 pm

What explains the big final left turn to the south after passing Indonsia?????
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:32 pm

Quoting capri (Reply 106):
everything here is a theory not fact

AF447 FO's experience is a fact, not a theory. You seriously misstated it.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
747megatop
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:38 pm

Quoting anfromme (Reply 97):
Or better even: the FDR and CVR.

Similar to what happened on the SilkAir crash in Indonesia in the late 90s; is it possible to manually pop the breakers for the CVR&FDR on a 777? If that is the case there is a possibility that we may never come to know what happened on MH 370. If the CVF&FDR recording can be manually switched off in a deliberate act then why have the recommendations issued by NTSB subsequent to MI 185 been implemented? Top
 
art
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:42 pm

Quoting davidzill (Reply 112):
I believe investigators came to their final conclusion that MH370 hit the deck in the remote area of the southern Indian Ocean upon further examination of INMARSAT data. I believe the preliminary examination of the data gave investigators a close but approximate lateral flight route, and a further analysis was able to provide investigators with a possible vertical trajectory the lead to an altitude of 0' MSL.

From what I heard on the BBC news (a) a new kind of analysis was done (b) doppler effect was memtioned (c) comparisons were made with known flight data of other flights to develop a new model for calculation



PS Just heard an Inmarsat spokesman interviewed on BBC say the aircraft's altitude was estimated to be 33,000ft


[Edited 2014-03-24 11:43:02]

[Edited 2014-03-24 11:57:25]
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:49 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 115):


this what was my post
from conference today, MH CEO said co-pilot was his first flight unsupervised and the captain was a qualified examiner, could it be the captain stepped out while they settle in cruise and something happened, co-pilot panicked that he never thought that his first flight will face emergency, he dialled wrong frequencies and was transmitting in the blind and by the time the captain got back, it was chaotic

I never mentioned AF447, so someone said this a carbon copy of AF447, so get your facts right
 
Alfons
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:49 pm

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 104):
This brings the entire thing to a single incident, with the rest being the chain of events that followed from it. Eliminates all of the bad people scenarios and leaves us with a very tragic accident. The worst part of this scenario is the possibility that everyone was well aware of what was happening.

What is your former 777 pilot saying about the initial Incident idea (all going off). Did something like this ever happened, and is something like that possible at all? And then later come back (like a single computer reboot)?
 
namezero111111
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:56 pm

Quoting MSY-MSP (Reply 103):

I think the circumstances involved here would make the probability of this scenario occurring like that essentially zero. how do you posit these crazy failures occurred, including all loss of flight controls? Not to mention the plane then flying off by itself, without engine control or flight control into the abyss for 7 hours.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:57 pm

Quoting capri (Reply 118):
this what was my post

I suggest you read your own post (Reply 58):

Quoting capri (Reply 58):
at least there are few commonility with AF447. one of them is a brand new co-pilot who was just checked out in a 777 and doing his first flight with no check co-pilot

Or are you saying that it was identity theft and you didn't write that post?
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
mandala499
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:00 pm

Quoting davidzill (Reply 2):
divert field on Palau island or maybe a return to the original airport.

Pulau = Malay/Indonesian for Island... Palau island is somewhere in the pacific :p

Quoting koruman (Reply 11):
I postulated that the airliner was hijacked by Uighur terrorists shortly after it flew off the east coast of Malaysia. It then flew back west to the alleged Chinese air base on Great Coco Island north of the Andaman Islands, at which point demands were made (?release of prisoners) and the Chinese instructed the pilots to land at a remote southwest Chinese air force base (which happens to be on the northern trajectory the satellite pings still support).

OMG!  So the Inmarsat pings are false? Their statement of "consistently moving away from the satellite" was false too?

Quoting flood (Reply 45):
It's worth noting that, in an interview with CNN, an Inmarsat VP said their conclusion was peer reviewed by the industry and Boeing had contributed.

And the satellites are probably made by Boeing too! :p

Quoting AR385 (Reply 109):
With the plane at 12,000ft if this turns out to be true. Would cell phones on board have worked at that altitude?

I received a phone call at over 20,000ft once, if I remember correctly I also received an SMS at 28,000ft... BUT! This was over land with relatively good coverage... and if I remember correctly, the reception sucks at that altitude! I couldn't hear anything but "garbled whatever"...
I did make a call at 7000ft once, an we were circling a cellphone tower at the time too ! :p

Quoting MSY-MSP (Reply 103):
At some point here in the crew realizes that the aircraft is flying too fast for the altitude. They then find that the throttles are non-responsive and the engines are just turning away.

Why not just make a steep climb and when the speed is low enough, extend the landing gear, speedbrakes what have you... And if the engines were stuck, they'd be stuck at idle due to the dive they just did, or they would have simply disintegrated due to excessive overspeed during the dive to 12,000. Sorry... this one doesn't make sense...

Quoting MSY-MSP (Reply 103):
they make the decision to basically wait the fuel out and then hope to glide to a suitable airport. The idea being that they would just circle Sumatra until such time as the fuel ran out. Once the fuel ran out the idea would be to pick the closest suitable airport and glide to it.

Again, this doesn't make sense. They could dump fuel... or make the fuel consumption extremely high by staying low in a high drag situation. There are so many ways (uncomfortable ways) to make you bleed energy.

Plus, are you aware how many airports in Sumatra can take the 777? Let's see... we have MES (closed) replaced by KNO. We have BTJ, we have PDG... we have PLM... and that's about it. Circling around Sumatra to wait for fuel to run out doesn't make sense... sorry. While if they just went in a circle, they got KUL KLIA, Penang, Phuket, Langkawi, even Butterworth AB if they needed it, then also KL Subang, all within a more concise area than Sumatra... then if they go south they got Johor Bharu, Singapore Changi, Singapore Paya Lebar, and Batam... This is still within a more confined area than "going around Sumatra"...

Quoting MSY-MSP (Reply 103):
First is that they don't have to worry about terrain. Second it kept them close to shore, for rescue or ditching in the event that they didn't or couldn't make an airport.

Terrain apart from Medan area and Banda Aceh Area, is largely on the western edge of Sumatra... why go around it? The water is also deeper on the west. A Malaysian with some geography education would know... while the Strait of Malacca is utterly shallow... I'd rather ditch there than the sea west of Sumatra thanks...

Quoting davidzill (Reply 112):
I believe the preliminary examination of the data gave investigators a close but approximate lateral flight route, and a further analysis was able to provide investigators with a possible vertical trajectory the lead to an altitude of 0' MSL.

If that's the case, they should have told us exactly where it went down then... they didn't. The pings were hourly... not every few seconds...

Quoting captainx (Reply 114):
What explains the big final left turn to the south after passing Indonsia?????

Enter this to your FMC: S9000.0 E00000.0  
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
Pihero
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:09 pm

Quoting captainx (Reply 95):
If the cabin was depressurized the exterior doors could be opened, correct? Which door would be easiest to open and jump from?

Against the airstream. Please look how a 777 door opens first.

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 104):

Probably not. The doors on the 777 pivot out and then toward the nose of the airplane, so unless you have the force to combat 300+kts of wind, you're not opening the door in flight, even if it is unpressurized.
Quoting captainx (Reply 110):
Yes, I have verified this.

End of subject
Contrail designer
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:10 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 121):

you should answer reply 55, I wonder why you are avoiding that, a conflict of interest maybe???
 
AustrianZRH
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:12 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 102):
On a news website, it is frustrating to read comments that MH370 has landed on Diego Garcia. And they say that it is all fishy, INMARSAT should have handed over its "position" data two weeks ago...

Oh yes, I came across those comments as well. And I tried to talk/write some reason into them. Guess what the answer was:

"They managed to cover up 9/11 so they try to do the same here. It's all the Americans waging a secret war against China."

WTF^Googolplexplex?
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
FltAdmiralRitt
Posts: 83
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:13 pm

QUOTE "

NAMZERO111111
I think the
circumstances involved here would make the probability of this scenario occurring
like that essentially zero. how do you posit these crazy failures occurred,
including all loss of flight controls? Not to mention the plane then flying off by itself,
without engine control or flight control into the abyss for 7 hours. "



On the contrary, a series cascading failures that led to the aircraft being
increasingly disabled is very plausible. The unknown is what caused those failures.
Because the only other plausible theory a pilot who plots suicide and does not want evidence found.

Neither is to be discounted at this point.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:15 pm

Quoting capri (Reply 124):
a conflict of interest maybe???

  

Did you write reply 58 or not?

Quoting capri (Reply 58):
at least there are few commonility with AF447. one of them is a brand new co-pilot who was just checked out in a 777 and doing his first flight with no check co-pilot

And did you write reply 118 or not?

Quoting capri (Reply 118):
I never mentioned AF447
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:19 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 122):

And the satellites are probably made by Boeing too! :p

At first I thought you were just having some fun. Then I found this . . .

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/defense...ts/702/Inmarsat-5/Inmarsat-5.page?

Who knew?

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
captainx
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:23 pm

A human made (or programmed the FMC) a left turn south after crossing undetected west of Indonesia. That strongly supports the theory that it was all planned imo. What else explains this long steady track south?
 
MigPilot
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:27 pm

what I have learned from all the threads about MH370 is that absolutely nothing is certain! Before the flight recorders are recovered and analyzed or pieces of the wreckage allow new conclusions, any theory about the course of events is just pure speculation!

Some of the ideas postulated here are bordering at a freak show. The imagination of people is really…astonishing. From the plane safe and sound on a runway in Kazakhstan ready to be used as a platform for a dirty bomb, to meteorite hit, we had covered really everything!

One can only hope that the CVR/FDR will be found one day and hopefully tell the true story, otherwise this case will be the blueprint for nutcase theories the world has never seen before  
 
jox
Posts: 119
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:31 pm

My theory is that MH is keeping the cargo manifest secret because it reveals that there were 3 Daleks on board. Apparently they escaped the cargo hold and destroyed the comms. They were then taken out by a Wombat, and the aircraft was pulled off course by a tractor beam from a passing constitution class starship (not determined if it was NCC-1701 or not). As Elvis was one of the passengers traveling on fake passport, he tried to take over the controls, but that failed and the plane crashed on top of the sailing ship of the flying dutchman.

Plausible? Well - at least as plausible as some other theories here  
 
AT
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:32 pm

Assuming that this crash is due to deliberate pilot action, then isn't there somewhat of a conflict of interest if Malaysia Airlines or the Malaysian Government (of which MAS is the flag carrier) leads the investigation?

If the pilots are responsible, it would be in their interest to downplay aspects of the investigation that show airline culpability or negligence. I'm not saying they would do anything improper, but sometimes the perception of a conflict of interest can be as bad as an actual conflict of interest.

What do others think?
 
Trin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:32 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 127):
Quoting capri (Reply 124):
a conflict of interest maybe???

  

Did you write reply 58 or not?

Quoting capri (Reply 58):
at least there are few commonility with AF447. one of them is a brand new co-pilot who was just checked out in a 777 and doing his first flight with no check co-pilot

And did you write reply 118 or not?

Quoting capri (Reply 118):
I never mentioned AF447

Oh good grief - *I* mentioned AF447. I mentioned it because I suggested 'capri' was projecting AF447 a bit too much in his/her theory of what happened to MH370, which I can quote below:

Quoting capri (Reply 50):
from conference today, MH CEO said co-pilot was his first flight unsupervised and the captain was a qualified examiner, could it be the captain stepped out while they settle in cruise and something happened, co-pilot panicked that he never thought that his first flight will face emergency, he dialled wrong frequencies and was transmitting in the blind and by the time the captain got back, it was chaotic

Really, I was just attempting to display to 'capri' that the sort of event (captain leaving the cockpit, co-pilot flying and getting everything screwed up) they are suggesting happened in this case more than likely didn't happen, and that to me it sounded like they were projecting AF447 a bit too much. I am NOT saying that it is a "carbon copy", as someone asserted - moreover just that it is a bit silly to throw out postulation after postulation about what COULD HAVE happened in the cockpit of MH370. Myself, I prefer to stick to known facts and wait for more information - I've never seen the point in creating theory after theory.

[Edited 2014-03-24 12:34:37]
 
bueb0g
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:34 pm

Quoting captainx (Reply 69):

How would the autopilot respond to all engines running out of fuel? Will it glide at min sink until touchdown?


No, it will pitch up until it stalls and will then disconnect

Quoting capri (Reply 118):
never mentioned AF447, so someone said this a carbon copy of AF447, so get your facts right

Read your own post, no. 58. You clearly state that both AF 447 and this flight had new FOs flying without supervision for the first time which is not true.

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 65):
Inexperienced FO playing a significant role in the incidents of AF 447, OZ 214, and now with MH 370? I'm really afraid of the general (and governmental) reaction if this proves to be the case.

Firstly, we have no evidence to suggest that the FO's inexperience has anything to do with this flight. Secondly, neither of the two FOs on AF 447 were particularly inexperienced and one was very experienced (with more hours on type than the PIC). As for OZ 214 - there was not even an FO at the controls, but two highly experienced Captains!
Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
 
FCAFLYBOY
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:38 pm

Enough already with the arguing and bickering Kaiarahi and Capri - 239 people
Have been confirmed dead today. If you must continue perhaps do it by PM as at 40-something threads already we really don't need to bulk it out anymore with tit-for-tat.

Rip to all those lost (even though none of us are suprised at today's news) and of course
To their families left behind. Let's all hope this mystery is finally solved sooner or later, rather than never.
 
captainx
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:39 pm

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 134):
Quoting captainx (Reply 69):
How would the autopilot respond to all engines running out of fuel? Will it glide at min sink until touchdown?


No, it will pitch up until it stalls and will then disconnect

If this is true, it went straight in unless someone was at the controls to fly it otherwise.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:47 pm

Quoting art (Reply 117):

From what I heard on the BBC news (a) a new kind of analysis was done (b) doppler effect was memtioned (c) comparisons were made with known flight data of other flights to develop a new model for calculation

That's correct. The Doppler effect is well understood by astronomers and NASA and if you are able to analyze any emission (light or radio wave) you will get both speed and altitude. I kind of questioned whether or not they could do that in hindsight (I don't know how much information was stored) but perhaps they recreated the scenario and measured the doppler shift from a test aircraft flying that arc. It would be extremely precise if you understood how to do it. Mostly, that's NASA engineers though.
 
hivue
Posts: 1957
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:49 pm

Quoting captainx (Reply 129):
What else explains this long steady track south?

Aircraft on autopilot, no one awake to alter the long steady track south?
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
65mustang
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:55 pm

RCAIR1: Back in Part 42 you answered a question (Part 42, reply 15) of mine with:

I think they base that on distance, not doppler.
While - in theory, you may get a doppler effect off the carrier wave - I doubt the satellite can detect it. That is another way of saying it is designed to ignore/compensate for frequency shifts of the magnitude doppler could provide.

End post.

I knew that Inmarsat calculated distance of the airplane from the satellite based on the strength of the ping(signal fades the further away the plane is), but I was inquiring about the ping itself and what did that data look like. I was wondering if the ping would look different traveling away from the sat vs. traveling toward. The first two pings would have been above the equator so i think if they determined the first two pings occurred while the plane was moving toward the sat, that means the aircraft was flying south. If the first two pings were heading away from the sat then the aircraft went north.

With the new Inmarsat data, do you think they found a difference in the length of the pings, or was it something else? I read somewhere that the satellite itself moves and that is what they used.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 138):
Aircraft on autopilot, no one awake to alter the long steady track south?

Well, first we need to know how it got on that track.

It certainly made a number of interesting moves before then.
 
tarmacphotos
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:57 pm

The biggest question I have is...Is it possible for an aircraft to hit the water and none of the many ELTs aboard went off? There are several water activated (in life rafts) and g force activated ELTs that would have immediately sent a burst of data to a satellite upon impacting the water. Is there a flaw in the system? Is there a gap in satellite coverage in that part of the world?
 
captainx
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:00 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 138):
What else explains this long steady track south? Aircraft on autopilot, no one awake to alter the long steady track south?

After Indonesia was passed, someone had to enter either a manual heading SOUTH or had to enter a SOUTH waypoint/route. Someone had to be alive to do that. Argues against a mech fault.
 
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Finn350
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:10 pm

This is from a BBC interview with Mr McLaughlin, Inmarsat VP.

Quote:
McLaughlin: We took Malaysian 777 aircraft data and modeled that and then put that against the northern and southern path and what we discovered was that the path to the south is undoubtedly the one taken.
Reporter: So you compared it to the other aircraft... I mean why haven't you come up with this before, why has it taken so long time to get to this point?
Mr McLaughlin: We have been dealing with a totally new area. We have been trying to help an investigation based on a single signal once an hour from an aircraft that did not include any GPS data, any time and distance information. So this really was a bit shot into the dark and it is to the credit to our scientific team that they came up and managed to model this. They managed to find a way in which to say just a single ping can be used to say that the plane was both powered up and travelling, and then by a process of elimination comparing it to other known flights established that it went south.
Reporter: Is this it now or can you pinpoint even further where it might be?
McLaughlin: We cannot help you with any closer data...

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26723980

It seems that they are only able to show that the southern path was taken and the northern path could be excluded.
 
rj777
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:12 pm

I agree with the family committee statement that Malaysian Airlines, the Malaysian government, and the Malaysian Military is covering up something, with the biggest evidence being that MH is refusing to release the cargo manifest. That manifest may be one of the biggest clues we have and might help searchers determine if any of this "debris" is a match. Some of the statements from family members:

“If our 154 relatives aboard lost their lives due to such reasons, then Malaysia Airlines, the Malaysian government and the Malaysian military are the real murderers that killed them,”

"You announce this information today. ... Is it really confirmed? What's your proof? We've been waiting for 17 days. You simply tell us this! Where is the proof? It's wrong to announce the information like this!"

I agree with that above statement that the Malaysian PM should not have announced this until they had a piece of wreckage IN HAND............ if this is the way that the Malaysians botch up the announcements, I hate to say this, but I have a feeling that we're going to have another Egyptair 990 on our hands where the Malaysians disagree with the NTSB findings.
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:13 pm

Quoting captainx (Reply 142):
Someone had to be alive to do that. Argues against a mech fault.

That's a non sequitur. Mechanical problems happen all the time with live crew. And live crew sometimes do strange things.(No, I'm not going to cite AF447 as an eample. )
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:17 pm

Quoting AT (Reply 132):
Assuming that this crash is due to deliberate pilot action,

Based on PM's statement from his first news conference it is no longer an assumption, at least for legal purposes. Attorneys are going to have a field day. Unless investigation proves this is totally mechanical, MH/Malaysia looking at huge payouts.

I guess sovereign immunity allows them to conduct their own investigation.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:23 pm

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 143):

It's incredible how they were able to figure this out. I was surprised they were able to figure out how long the individual pings took but using Doppler effect and all that craziness? Buy that team a drink, they deserve it.

Wonder what FWF and his unnamed source(s) are saying now? Gonna head over to his Twitter... doubt that egomanic is saying much  

Edit: seems like he's sticking to his guns lol. He claims to not trust the US government yet he is trusting his US government source? He is sounding pretty crazy in his tweets, he's either gonna be able to say "I told you so!" to everyone forever or he just needs to STFU

[Edited 2014-03-24 13:26:15]
 
mika
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:24 pm

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 135):
Enough already with the arguing and bickering Kaiarahi and Capri - 239 people
Have been confirmed dead today. If you must continue perhaps do it by PM as at 40-something threads already we really don't need to bulk it out anymore with tit-for-tat.

Rip to all those lost (even though none of us are suprised at today's news) and of course
To their families left behind. Let's all hope this mystery is finally solved sooner or later, rather than never.

Amen to this. Whatever will end up being the true cause, if it is ever found, to this human catastrophe (because at the end of the day that's what this is) it is a very sad fact that 239 people have beyond any reasonable doubt perished in this air disaster. They are all gone in the indian ocean and we know it.
 
747megatop
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:31 pm

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 135):
Let's all hope this mystery is finally solved sooner or later, rather than never.

And for the mystery to be solved the impact area needs to be found accurately before underwater search can commence. This is what the designer of Remus 6000 [the underswater sub that found AF 447] has to say -

Purcell said that without a more defined area, “it would take the rest of my lifetime and part of my next one to conduct that search.”
http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/s...s-subonstandbytohelpfindmh370.html

[Edited 2014-03-24 13:35:11]
 
spyglass
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 44

Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:32 pm

Sorry, but all the "satellite data" notwithstanding, I don't believe that plane ever went into the drink. It's on the ground somewhere either in a large hangar or very well camouflaged. There also likely around 230 dead from hypoxia. A "Payne Stewart" type explanation makes no sense, and since no motive has been established and apparently no ELT signal received, to me this stands as an incident planned and evidently accomplished. I have a pretty good idea how it was done, but not certain by who (or whom, as the case may be)......'course I could be tinklin' in the wind, too. Time will tell.
I remember when......a plane trip was a big deal.

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