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Tobias2702
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LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:04 pm

Hi guys, this is just in. This week has seen a "warning strike" at major German airports which badly affected LH, next week it will be even worse: The pilots are going on strike for three days, from Wedneyday to Friday.

Keep your heads up!

Lufthansa pilots announce three-day strike for next week

[Edited 2014-03-28 05:29:29 by SA7700]
PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:17 pm

They should have started he strike on April 1, that would have made sense.

Now that is a bad joke. They have some of the highest income in the Airline Business world wide. Fair enough, they deserve to be treated better than some of their collegues, even in the US who got stripped off their pensions.

However, if they continue that path they might some day wake up and got stripped off their Company.

A 10% pay increase is gross when you already make incomes in the 100+K Region (up to € 255K for Senior captains) No envy, they have a tough Job. .

But the regulation for bridging paymentson early retirement has to be changed, not for the current contracts but for new contracts at least.

They live in a closed shop, not even working for the ME3 would be an incentive for them. They enjoy the highest Standards, why go on strike when you have it better than most of the rest of the collegues in the world?
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Mir
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:18 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 1):
They should have started he strike on April 1, that would have made sense.

I'm flying with them on April 1, so I'm very glad they didn't.

-Mir
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EBGARN
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:19 pm

Ahh... Shmug!

I've got two flights with LH on Wednesday (LH1369 and LH808). So, I may get to stay at a Krakow hotel until Saturday..?
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vfw614
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:33 pm

Guess I made the right decision to fly next Friday NRT-DUS instead of HND-MUC-DUS despite of the inconvenient trek to NRT...
 
offloaded
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:13 pm

We received the following from TAP (they have several codeshares with LH)

Latest update info:

- FRA – strike confirmed but we will keep our schedule, no cancellation expected. Severe delays and disruption expected. Passengers with long haul flights may be rebooked free of charge
- Nightstop aircraft will be on remote stand to avoid any impact of jet way drivers
- Due to security control strike in concourse A TAP gate for TP571 will be in B-section (due to a different security company)
- Expected disruption in baggage handling and loading
- Expected delay and long queues at security control in concourse B
- No PRM handling during strike duration

- MUC – strike confirmed but we will keep our schedule, no cancellation expected. Severe delays and disruption expected. Passengers with long haul flights may be rebooked free of charge
- Nightstop aircraft will be on remote stand to avoid any impact of jet way drivers
- Expected disruption at bulky baggage handling
- Actual no irregularity expected with regular luggage handling
- Strike of security personal (passenger and staff security check points) cannot be excluded

- DUS/ HAM – strike not confirmed and/ or limited impact. No cancellation expected. Delays may happen
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
mucflyer
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:06 pm

Quoting offloaded (Reply 5):
We received the following from TAP (they have several codeshares with LH)

Latest update info:

- FRA – strike confirmed but we will keep our schedule, no cancellation expected. Severe delays and disruption expected. Passengers with long haul flights may be rebooked free of charge
- Nightstop aircraft will be on remote stand to avoid any impact of jet way drivers
- Due to security control strike in concourse A TAP gate for TP571 will be in B-section (due to a different security company)
- Expected disruption in baggage handling and loading
- Expected delay and long queues at security control in concourse B
- No PRM handling during strike duration

- MUC – strike confirmed but we will keep our schedule, no cancellation expected. Severe delays and disruption expected. Passengers with long haul flights may be rebooked free of charge
- Nightstop aircraft will be on remote stand to avoid any impact of jet way drivers
- Expected disruption at bulky baggage handling
- Actual no irregularity expected with regular luggage handling
- Strike of security personal (passenger and staff security check points) cannot be excluded

- DUS/ HAM – strike not confirmed and/ or limited impact. No cancellation expected. Delays may happen

Don't mix it up, your info relates to a Verdi Industrial Action for airport handling staff, which we have seen over the last few days. That has nothing to do with the upcoming LH pilots strike, which is a much more intense number...
 
factsonly
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:30 pm

Pilots Union Vereinigung Cockpit has announced a three-day strike from Wed 2 - Friday 4 April 2014 for employees of:

- Lufthansa German Airlines
- Lufthansa Cargo
- Germanwings

at every German airport.

but........

Lufthansa has called on the Vereinigung Cockpit pilots’ union (VC) to resume joint talks as soon as possible. “We still have four and a half days to avoid further disruptions for our customers, which would occur with the strike that has been announced,” said Dr Bettina Volkens, Chief Officer Human Resources and Legal, Deutsche Lufthansa AG. “We are willing to continue the discussions at any time and have laid the groundwork for negotiations with the new offer for the wage settlement and the offer concerning early retirement from flight service. With the goodwill of everyone involved, we should be able to avoid a strike,” Ms Volkens continued.

http://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/pre...ve/2014/march/28/article/2868.html



Lufthansa will publish a list with an adjusted flight schedule as well as information for passenger services on Monday, 31st March 2014.

[Edited 2014-03-28 08:33:45]
 
reifel
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:47 pm

The list of cancelled flights will be published Monday around noon.

If you are panning to travel on these dates you can already rebook now free of charge:
-To any other LH/SN/LX/OS operated flight within the same compartment (does not need to be the same booking class)
-Origin/Destination needs to remain unchanged, unless it's a close airport (i.e. CGN instead of DUS)
-You may also rebook to flights with LH number but operated by other carriers than LH/SN/LX/OS, but only in the same booking class

Cancellations are not possible as long as the flight is not marked as cancelled.

Rebookings can be made either by calling the travel agent where the ticket was purchased or with LH.

This is from the agency instructions given by LH to their IATA agents.


Personally I do not think the strike will be called off, but I might be proven wrong. If it's called off in last minute, then it is very probably that at least on the first day a lot of flights will remain cancelled as all guests would have been rebooked and planes not available. This was the case already in the past.

By the way, all LH flights, including Long haul, are on stop sell and closed in all bookings classes in the GDS for these 3 days.
 
speedbird128
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:38 pm

Yet another benefit of protectionism... Screw the customer attitude.

I think three days of strike is despicable.
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Ty134A
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:24 am

Yep, that sucks.... I am booked on LH on SA, so with the strike ending on FR, will there be "normal" ops on SA already? And what about my ticket, I am booked on ecco, can they kick me off in favour of, let's say, business class pax? Also what if I have a connection flight with another airline and I miss that, do they need to reebook me on other carriers?
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reifel
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:13 am

HI Ty134A, working as an IATA agent I can tell that in the past people with existing tickets were not bumped off flights if they had a valid ticket and the flight operates. They may look for volunteers, but usually all people could be easily reprotected. Lufthansa is doing a good job here. The can clearly publish a list of cancelled flights in time for everyone to be rebooked. Also, Lufthansa tends to cancel more flights than necessary, in order to be sure that does listed as "not cancelled" are operating.

Therefore, if your flight is not on the list on Monday, which it will proably not be, you will be fine. That is my guess at least from experiences on previous flights. You can expect cancelled flights on tuesday, but that would basically be the flights
that could not go out on Friday evening and overnighting in another airport, which usually is in Europe (i.e FRA-LYS).

Looking at the strike last week however, LH solves this by operating the outbound flights reguary on Tuesday evening (i.e. evening flight FRA-LYS), then keeping the plane idle two days in LYS, so that the first flights on saturday (which are usually from somewhere to FRA, not the other way round) can operate as planned.

In regards of your second question, if your flight is cancelled they will rebook you to LX (I suppose they fly to South Africa) in any available booking class, as long as it's still in Eco, and second choice for them to South African. If the connecting flight is on the same ticekt, but even with another airline, they will rebook you to your final destination. If it's a separate tickets it's hard luck and they will not rebook you at their own expense if you miss your self booked connection in South Africa.

[Edited 2014-03-30 02:15:10]

[Edited 2014-03-30 02:15:14]
 
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Ty134A
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:40 am

@ reifel: thank you so much!!!! i really hope that things work out well. what is your experience with the day after the strike? does it affect the schedule, i.e. lots of cancellations on sat as well due to the strike from tue to fri? or are those flights operating normally? i mean do they have trouble "ramping up" to the original schedule after the strike?
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reifel
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:58 am

Ty134A, I am not working with LH so I can't really say.
But all I can say is that LH had a lot of strikes, either from own or unrelated airport staff, and that each time they had enough time to plan, they were able to publish a quite realisitc emergency schedule.
I am pretty sure that when the emergency schedule will be published tomorrow around noon, it will include a few cancellations on Saturday morning, too, but you will not see a much other flights cancelled than those published there. And if your flight is cancelled, which I do not think, they will offer you alternatives and you'd have enough time to replan your trips. You can also cancel free of charge then and see what a ticket with another airline would cost, if their alternative is not matching your plans.

As I said earlier, from my experience LH is doing quite a good job in strike handlings and they tend to overreact, preferring to cancel more than too less.
 
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ua900
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:03 pm

Rebooked my TXL-FRA-LAX flight to BA. Goodbye FRA, hello LHR. Thank you unions.
2020: AMS | BRU | DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | IAH | LAX | MCO | MUC | ORD | PTY | SFO | TXL
 
reifel
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:08 pm

Hope you didn't had to pay anything extra as LH could have rebooked you free of charge to LX via ZRH (in case the schedule suited you).
 
peterjohns
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:13 pm

Quoting ua900 (Reply 14):

So you are going to travel with BA via LHR from now on? I guess your right, BA Staff are never on strike and especially LHR Staff are always committed to work all the time.

I am not happy about strikes (any strikes) either, on the other hand I know a bit about the background to it and must say it isn´t unjustified...

The strike last week at FRA was something completely else and has nothing to do with airport or airlines. That is union crap showing strength.
 
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ua900
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:13 pm

Quoting reifel (Reply 15):
Hope you didn't had to pay anything extra as LH could have rebooked you free of charge to LX via ZRH (in case the schedule suited you).

Not one penny extra since LH rebooked it. LX didn't work from a schedule PoV but I would have preferred the LX 343 over the BA 744 any day since the LX 343 rarely sells out to LAX.

Quoting peterjohns (Reply 16):

I prefer *A and FRA/MUC/ZRH over BA and the LHR taxes. But LH staff also need to understand that the world doesn't revolve around them. Negotiations shouldn't involve customers, period. I am actually against a lot of things that LH is doing, like the whole 4U thing as it now constantly messes up my trips. Backtracking to FRA or MUC every time just to avoid 4U is a pain and I hope LH mgmt come to their senses.

LH should continue the other path, the one where they position themselves with the Y+ product, the flatbeds throughout J, the increased attention in F. 4U is a terrible solution to be associated with LH group, and the constant friction that becomes visible through strikes is just plain embarrassing. They have a genuine chance to get back to being a true premium carrier that doesn't have to hide from competitors. I think they are capable of successfully challenging the ME carriers and be right on par with Singapore if they set their mind to it, but that's also a mgmt decision and really doesn't square with 4U stuff.
2020: AMS | BRU | DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | IAH | LAX | MCO | MUC | ORD | PTY | SFO | TXL
 
chrisinbrasil
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:06 am

I'm flying LH on April 1 from Sao Paulo-Munich and then April 2 Munich-LHR. What are the chances my first flight will be cancelled?
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PM
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:26 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
I'm flying with them on April 1, so I'm very glad they didn't.

I'm meant to be flying on the 4th at 3am...  
 
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Airbus747
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:48 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 1):

I hope my comment is not off topic but simply wanted to share my view that when you are a professional - in any job - it is unfair to expect that your salary/benefits/employment conditions/etc. need to be compared and reviewed alongside those the rest of the industry.

One may be more qualified, deliver better quality, work more, contribute more to the bottom line; or maybe the employer itself has a larger market share than the rest of the industry, so the actual salary may be only a tiny crumble of the big cake...

(Imagine Company A making £100 and Company B making £1000 net profit, and pilots in both companies contributing the same amount of productivity. Suppose that industry average salary is £10 - that would mean 10% of Company A's profits but only 1% of Company B's profits!! Do I think Company B pilots are entitled to more? Hell, of course yes - much much more!).

And then there might be other considerations like conditions, policies, etc.

I am sure there are an infinite reasons to justify people in any profession to ask for more money and benefits than they currently earn - regardless of how well they already are compared to the rest of the industry.

That's also why I myself prefer to work in roles that always allow to earn a % of what I contribute rather than a fixed industry-determined price point.

Sorry for the short economics lesson  
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:12 am

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 20):
Sorry for the short economics lesson

25 years out of my 45 years in business I have been self employed, still are although inm semi retirement. Not sure what you wanted to tell me, but the conditions are different in different Jobs and can be different in the same industry.

I am not throwing in my personal experience but rather Focus on the pilots and try to do that without any envy or other emotions.

Fact is, that LH pilots enter into a career with a Company, once selected for Training and their Goal is to end that career in that Company.Not too many People, except in lublic Service, can say that These days.

I got some Information about the issue for which I invite the Person to write that here, because the VC Union does obviously a bad Job in publishing the Details about the reasons for the strike.

What I was saying in the first reply is, that LH pilots have far better earning and working conditions than most of their Peers. In Terms of income and in Terms of Job security. It is my personal opinion, but they should be careful not to harm the Company.

At the end of the day it is the passengers and the freight customers who pay for all of that and the conditions of running an Airline based in the EU and particularly in Germany are already bad enough. That has to be considered and IMHO they shpould get back to the table, take the Invitation of the LH board and call off the strike , talk and participate in making the Company stronger to be able to cope with the competition that pays their pilots by the hour and not with a monthly base salary plus all the goodies.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Tobias2702
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:43 pm

For your information, due to the strike LH is about to cancel 3,800 flights on April 1-5. Full list:
PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
 
PHX787
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:57 pm

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 22):
For your information, due to the strike LH is about to cancel 3,800 flights on April 1-5. Full list:

Your link did not appear.


Damn....3800 flights has to be a sizable chunk of their flights for these days.
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Unflug
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:37 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 23):

Your link did not appear.


Tried to post it as well, but can't make that link visible on airliners.net either, strange.

Just go to lufthansa.com, there is a "Pilot Unions Strike" button on the homepage.
 
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kasimir
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:26 pm

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 20):

I would be happy to be provided with some background to this strike and why LH pilots think they need 10% more money?

I agree with PanHAM, that LH pilots already have one of the best working conditions, salaries and benefits in the industry, which doesn't mean they have an easy job and I have all the respect for what they are doing, but the airline industry these days is highly competitive and very sensitive to economic fluctuations.

As an LH pilot I would rather be happy with what I have, if I would know that my colleague is "happy" to work for less at a different company for a very similar job. Its not that LH pilots have reinvented the way of flying and LH is far away from being a premium airline. For me LH is solid airline, which could be a bit more competitive on pricing!

LH pilots should not live in the past (this not the 70s, where flying was something glamorous) and for sure not be arrogant. LH company's aim is to become the biggest/best airline in Europe/World, this will for sure not happen when their staff on a regular basis demand more from the cake. For sure it doesn't help if the airline has to shut down most its flights for 3 days!

No wonder that the ME3 carriers are slowly taking over, when was the last time you heard of a strike from them?
 
Cassi
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:55 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 4):
Guess I made the right decision to fly next Friday NRT-DUS instead of HND-MUC-DUS despite of the inconvenient trek to NRT...

Indeed, the flights to NRT haven't been cancelled, but those poor passengers will still be half way to Ueno when the strike is over  
 
dalca
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:23 pm

Working for LH Cargo in an outside station, I always feel somewhat kicked in the behind by the fellow LH staff when they strike. Every time they decide to strike for anything, the people in the outside stations suffer badly. Lots of business lost to competitors in a cut throat business world, this actually makes the company lose double money.
Also, LH staff in outside stations often have to make do with far less wage increases then the staff in Germany and don't enjoy many of the benefits they have.
I understand people wanting to better their jobs, but the pilots are pretty well off and should think the people in the whole company.

Quoting Cassi (Reply 26):
No wonder that the ME3 carriers are slowly taking over, when was the last time you heard of a strike from them?

In comparison, what the pilots want as an increase per month, totals to about 50% of what the security who went on strike last month earn in about a year.

Just my $0.02
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Airbus747
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:25 pm

Quoting kasimir (Reply 25):

I think my overall point can be expressed more simply by: who are you and I to decide/assume/lecture what should make someone else happy?
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:30 am

Quoting dalca (Reply 27):
Working for LH Cargo in an outside station, I always

with my freight forwarder Background I know how you feel. All your sales efforts go down the drain when you cannot offer space. The forwarder will walk to the competition and might stay there when the strike is over.

This strike IS damaging for the Company, much more than the pilots might think. The üpilots should cancel the strike today, that way, there would still be a lot of cancellations but Service would be back to normal more or less by Friday.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
charliecossie
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:06 am

Quoting kasimir (Reply 25):
No wonder that the ME3 carriers are slowly taking over, when was the last time you heard of a strike from them?

Er....unions and strikes are illegal there.
 
chieft
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:29 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 23):
Damn....3800 flights has to be a sizable chunk of their flights for these days.

About 500,000 passengers will be affected.
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
na
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:36 am

Quoting chieft (Reply 31):
About 500,000 passengers will be affected.

500.000 are affected so that a few thousand future millionaires get richer faster.

Dont mind me, I think to be a professional pilot is a tough job and it surely deserves a high payment.
Strike is ok for people who suffer from low income, but this strike here is the opposite.

[Edited 2014-04-01 01:38:09]
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:19 am

Much more than 500000 are affected. in a servie industry, this will affect millions., direct and indirect.

Freight forwarders lose Business, the hundreds os small and medium companies providing Services for Lh lose out. Manufacturing does not get spare parts to customers in time and mach more.

Strikes against manufacturing industries are miuch easier to Digest. A car manufacturer will not lose a single sale, they catch up with extra shifts. Not so in most Service industries.

One day would have been enough to get the message across, this nmow is waay over the top.

And I don't care if pilots are future millionaires, they earn what they get.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Gipsy
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:45 am

Totally laughable. Typical LH pilots entitlement mentality, they think they are the company.

Hopefully they can buy a third Porsche with the pay increase.

They harm the company so badly and make it more difficult for new entries, which eventually will have to relinquish salaries and benefits to pay for the old staffs gold plated contracts.
 
Unflug
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:52 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 33):
Much more than 500000 are affected. in a servie industry, this will affect millions., direct and indirect.

Freight forwarders lose Business, the hundreds os small and medium companies providing Services for Lh lose out. Manufacturing does not get spare parts to customers in time and mach more.

Strikes against manufacturing industries are miuch easier to Digest. A car manufacturer will not lose a single sale, they catch up with extra shifts. Not so in most Service industries.

One day would have been enough to get the message across, this nmow is waay over the top.

Totally agree.

Today I read that the pilots union (Vereinigung Cockpit) claims that 3 days strike is justified as the monetary amount in discussion is so high. Quite ridiculous, with that logic they could ask for even more to have justification for a longer strike.

Well, I tried to be open minded and to have a look on the unions website. Might be possible that they have good points that are not well communicated and didn't reach me. Didn't find any. And the press release is full of grammatical errors. It's unbelievable, these people aren't even able to write one page in correct language - no wonder they are living in their own reality. For those who read German:

http://www.vcockpit.de/presse/presse...sa-und-vereinigung-cockpit-vc.html
 
chieft
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:36 am

Guys, I wrote about 500,000 PASSENGERS, which are going to be affected.

Of course it affects way more people.
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
PHX787
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:58 pm

Quoting Cassi (Reply 26):
Indeed, the flights to NRT haven't been cancelled, but those poor passengers will still be half way to Ueno when the strike is over

Nonsense, haven't you ever taken the skyliner? Takes 30 minutes  
Quoting Unflug (Reply 24):
Just go to lufthansa.com, there is a "Pilot Unions Strike" button on the homepage.

They're not posting much in details, are they.

Quoting chieft (Reply 31):
About 500,000 passengers will be affected.

That's quite a lot...what percentage of LH's total pax for a typical time period would that be
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kasimir
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:11 pm

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 28):
I think my overall point can be expressed more simply by: who are you and I to decide/assume/lecture what should make someone else happy?

Sorry but these kind of things affect a lot of people, since PanHAM showed that service industry strikes have much bigger impacts then in the manufacturing industry. So everybody can and should have an opinion about this, this goes way beyond just what makes LH pilots happy or not!
I also would like to see LH succeed to become more successful, but these kind of silly actions will only hurt LH in a very broad way, which nobody can yet anticipate and like I asked already, whats the reason that the pilots want more money??

Some common sense by the staff and less arrogance and entitlement mentality would do wonders for LH business. LH pilots are doing very very well as I know first hand since I know a couple of them and the comment by gipsy "they can buy a third Porsche with the pay increase" is so typical for LH pilots.

I have the feeling they are just striking, because they can and it worked for the past years, so why not try it again... and again and again... I hope somebody soon at upper management puts an end to this nonsense! No wonder LH management has to become more creative in their staffing politics (see Germanwings etc). I would not be surprised if at some point all new LH pilots will be hired through separate HR company (with less rights, benefits and salary), which then will be working for LH. These kind of things happen already in other industries and don't be surprised if this will happen to LH too... For all affected (right now at germanwings or in the future), you can thank your colleagues at LH because they became too greedy!

Sorry for my harsh words, but every time when I see an LH pilot driving around with his big Porsche and living in his huge house, the last thing that comes to my mind is "he should earn more money"... A lot of people with a passion of flying would do their jobs for free  
Quoting charliecossie (Reply 30):
Er....unions and strikes are illegal there.

I know that, but thats one of many reasons why they are doing so well... Lets not forget, nobody is forced to work for the ME3 carriers, so if it would be so bad (without unions and strikes), they would have a hard time finding all those employees!


Quoting gipsy (Reply 34):
They harm the company so badly and make it more difficult for new entries, which eventually will have to relinquish salaries and benefits to pay for the old staffs gold plated contracts.

Exactly and lets not forget that the customer will have to pay for this too (strikes and wage increases)

[Edited 2014-04-01 07:14:49]
 
chieft
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:23 pm

Well, the core claim is not "more money".

The main reason is, that LH pilots want to keep their early retirement scheme allowing them to retire with 55 but not later than with 60 getting about 50% of their salary until the final retirement.

LH want to change that due to a recent EU Court ruling, allowing pilots to fly until the age of 65 - provided they are fit to fly, of course.

But in the end they could afford to make provisions for that early retirement themselves. Even if partly only.
LH pilots are the second best paid ones after KLM / AF

The present regulation is a remnant when LH was a state owned carrier.

[Edited 2014-04-01 08:23:56]
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting chieft (Reply 31):
affected
Quoting na (Reply 32):
affected
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 33):
affected

"Affected" is a nice word. A better word would be "hijacked" / "private plans destroyed" / "holidays planned and paid get scrwed up" and don't tell me people had enough time to adjust their plans - that works for business trips but not for families who have valid hotel reservations.

In the year 2014 there should be a more efficient way to solve this dispute, a way that does NOT "affect" the life of thousands...
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:28 am

well, fact is, it affects far more People than the 500K passengers who will have their travel plans cancelled, interrupted, changed etc.

Legislators have to think about this phenomena in the service industry. Strikers do actually not hit their employers, who are anonymous anyhow in large, publicly listed companies and often enough, especially in this case, less wealthy than the strikers.

I would not say "hi-jacked" or "taken hostage", too strong words. But something has to be done to give those who are victims of a strike better rights to protect their interests. It cannot be that a relatvly small Group causes that much damage, not only to the Company they are representing, to themselves on the Long-run but more important, to people who have nothing to do with that industrial Actions except that they are the real victims, suffer immediate financial loss and have to pay for that in the Long run on top.

Again, one day, may be half a day would have served the purpose, 3 days plus the time it takes to run down and re-start the System is waaaaaay over the top.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
chieft
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:04 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 41):
Again, one day, may be half a day would have served the purpose, 3 days plus the time it takes to run down and re-start the System is waaaaaay over the top.

Actually it's gonna be about 5 days. LH had to stop flying on certain routes Tuesday already and until everything will be back on the right track it will be Saturday.
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:43 am

well, I said plus the time it takes to run down and re start the System. Yesterday, Tueday LH canclled 60 lights, there will be more cancellations on Saturday an Sunday.

It is a real PITA for the Airline but much more for the customers who are the real victims, plus all those who depend on the Services, have build their Business model on it, and wo will lose ut without the Chance of compensation.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:01 am

Here is the current state of play. Only LH flights shown.

DLH

Click on picture for larger image.

Guess there are some non union pilots out there.
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vfw614
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:27 am

Quoting chieft (Reply 39):
LH want to change that due to a recent EU Court ruling, allowing pilots to fly until the age of 65 - provided they are fit to fly, of course.

Which was the result of some LH pilots nit wanting to retire and suing Lufthansa to be allowed to work past 60.....

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 44):

Guess there are some non union pilots out there.

Eurowings and Cityline are operating. Plus LH pilots with management functions do not go on strike and are of course pressed into service.
 
chieft
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:05 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 45):
Which was the result of some LH pilots nit wanting to retire and suing Lufthansa to be allowed to work past 60.....

Funny, isn't it? You can't please everybody...
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:23 pm

In normal life it is so that the ones who retire early should take a Penalty and those who seve until 65 get the full Pension they have contributed fr during their working life.

Especially when the retirement at 55 bases on a personal decision. I would find it much more Logical when those who fail a medical test benefit from such a solution.

But they ar taken care off with a loss of licence insurance. bet all These cab Drivers who do not pick up fares today and tomorrow because of he strike do not have an insurance that covers their losses.

And retiring from a ob at 55 means you can run your own Business with the bsic costs like health insurane already paid with the retiremnt scheme,

OK, I would probably fight as well when the threat t leave wonderland is written at the blackboard. But t is a hig Level to complain from.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
factsonly
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:34 pm

Just looking at FRA airport for a moment.

LH continues to operate a number of CRJ, EMB190 and A321 aircraft on European services and even a B744 on LH404 to JFK.

It even shows an A346 on LH2571 MAN-MUC !

Are we observing some management pilots and/or strike breakers?

[Edited 2014-04-02 07:36:42]
 
Stratofish
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:30 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 48):

The CRJs and Ejets are operated by Eurowings and Cityline respectively.
As for the A321s and widebodies your assumptions are correct.
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way

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