aloges
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:37 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 48):
It even shows an A346 on LH2571 MAN-MUC !

That is bound to be a football charter. Bayern München played ManU and it'd be even worse publicity for LH to cancel that flight.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
chieft
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:09 am

Just got some facts out of a German news magazine; please excuse the possibly bad translation:


How much pilots really work? What do they earn? How much does Lufthansa cost the strike? A compilation.


+ 29 to 33 months at least takes the training to become a commercial airline pilot at Bremen Pilot School of Lufthansa.

+ Approximately 30 percent of income improvements have fought after several work stoppages in 2001 by the pilots and their union cockpit.

+ 40 percent of total pension expenses, which makes Lufthansa for about 84,000 active or former employees in the country, benefit the approximately 8,400 pilots, ten percent of the workforce.
About 60 percent of the month is a pilot working - only a third of the time he is at home.

+ By 60 percent, to more than a billion euros, Lufthansa has increased its profit in 2013, when all non-recurring items are eliminated from the result.

+ 80 hours flight service per month pilots may operate in the cockpit according to the law. A flight operation can take up to 16 hours including preparation and waiting times. Overall, a 40-hour week.

+ The pilots of Lufthansa and German Wings fly their customers, according to the coming summer flight schedule, to 235 destinations in 78 countries.

+ 3800 flights are canceled during the three-day strike.

+ 5400 pilots pare on strike from Wednesday to Friday.

+ 20,000 additional passengers per day will use the train Deutsche Bahn, on Friday there will be more.

+ 60,000 to 80,000 euros does it cost to become a commercial pilot, according to the union Vereinigung Cockpit.

+ Up to 124.000 € per year is in the transitional care for a 55-year-old captain to the entrance to the official retirement age of 65.

+ 150,000 e-mails and text messages with strike information Lufthansa has sent to their customers.

+ Up to 150,000 Euro per year earning the captains of the Lufthansa Group belonging Swiss.

+ Around 260,000 euros, including allowances, per year earned a Lufthansa pilot who has been through all salary levels in the course of his career.

+ 425,000 passengers of Lufthansa and German Wings are affected by the three day strike.

+ In the "mid single digit" millions of lost revenue to the airport will be missed by Passenger, takeoff and landing fees, according to the airport operator Fraport.

+ With around 25 million euros costs every day of the strike; LH estimates a "high double-digit millions" loss for the three days off.

+ 104.6 million passengers carried by Lufthansa German Wings, Swiss and Austrian Airlines in 2013.

+ 181 million passengers took off and landed at German airports in 2013, the daily average of just under 500,000 passengers.

+ More than 1 billion euros has made provisions for the retirement of its pilots with 55 years Lufthansa.

+ Around 2.6 billion passengers were transported, according to the Federal Statistical Office in 2012 over the rail, which are 14 times as many travelers as in air traffic.

+ 5.9 billion euros spent the Lufthansa Group in 2013 for the salaries and wages and nearly 1.5 billion euros for social security or pensions.
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
AA7771stClass
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Unscientific look at flightaware: I noticed that both days of the strike, the Frankfurt-Caracas flight has gone. Does anyone have insight as to why that specific route would be the only international one flown two days consecutively with the strike (it's on A333)?
 
alphaomega
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:43 pm

Quoting AA7771stClass (Reply 52):

Unscientific look at flightaware: I noticed that both days of the strike, the Frankfurt-Caracas flight has gone. Does anyone have insight as to why that specific route would be the only international one flown two days consecutively with the strike (it's on A333)?

As stated before, management who are pilots will still fly or be called in to operate flights. How LH decides which flights to operate is anyone's guess.
 
vfw614
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:10 pm

I would guess they will operate flights where it is the most difficult to reprotect passengers and the least difficult to schedule crew layover-wise etc.
 
klwright69
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:14 pm

I was just out at RUH, King Khalid International, today.

The LH flight to FRA comes in late at night and turns around and returns to FRA in the very late night international bank at around 2:30 a.m.

But today it's sitting out at a remote stand all by its lonesome (actually it's next to a Saudia cargo 747).

So that means there is a LH sitting at their Riyadh hotel for 3 days during the strike?
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:59 am

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 55):
So that means there is a LH sitting at their Riyadh hotel for 3 days during the strike?

Exacty, enjoying a pool vacation with a couple of Drinks   and sunshine and they are not even on strike. They can only strike in Germany. LH Cargo managed to fly a much higher percentage of Services than the passenger Airline. Management pilots flew to Krasnojarks where other pilots took the aircraft to F/E dstinations and back and the Management Pilots flew back to FRA.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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Aesma
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:46 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 40):
In the year 2014 there should be a more efficient way to solve this dispute, a way that does NOT "affect" the life of thousands...

Well, what do you propose ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:27 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 57):
Well, what do you propose ?

Mediation. I mean, the railroads act did not prevent US carriers from lenghty strikes, Northwest shut down for weeks at a time occasionally, but a 6 week cooling off period should be it.

Hopefully, this will get into Mediation early May and they will find a solution which saves face for both sides.

Meanwhile, I heard the AF pilots intend to strike a full month? Mon Dieu, why not shut down for good?
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
chieft
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:30 pm

LH management seems not to intend to make a new offer to the union.
Mediation is pretty useless, if one party is not willing to move.
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
L1011Lover
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:01 pm

OKAY, this is it... I have had it!!!

Actually I had decided not to comment at all... but this comment :

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 56):
Exacty, enjoying a pool vacation with a couple of Drinks and sunshine and they are not even on strike

regarding this question:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 55):
So that means there is a LH sitting at their Riyadh hotel for 3 days during the strike?

just threw me over the edge...

There are countless crew members stranded all over the planet! Yes it was the pilots union decision to go on strike, yes there are pilots among those crews stranded in beautiful places but also some less desirable spots on the face of earth... but there are also cabin crew members whose plans and schedules were totally screwed. And even though most of them might be supportive of this strike it's not as if they're all having a ball and enjoying a once in a lifetime vacation like layover... Many are just anxious to get home to family and friends.

And regarding the strike... yes one might argue that the pilots are making good money, but first of all people should by now have realised that this strike isn't about a 10% pay raise!

Just imagine you're setting up savings account at a bank... you do your monthly payment to the account in order to save a decent amount of money to buy a house or use it as a pension plan! All of a sudden the bank announces: we're in financially difficult, tough times, we're faring worse than the competition. We're now keeping your money to get our house in order. We simply keep it! It's ours now, not yours anymore!

Now I'm asking everybody: WOULD THAT BE OKAY? And does it really make a difference if somebody paid 100 bucks a month or 1000 bucks? Would this be okay? That's a serious question!

And now for making matters even worse: That bank isn't faring any worse than the competition! In fact that bank is faring way better than most of the competition! It's all about filling the greedy shareholders pockets and to sugarcoat the balance books!

It's as simple as that!!! That's what this strike is all about!!!

The pilots paid for that pension plan themselves over the course of their employment with LH! It's not like LH is giving them free money!!!
 
chieft
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:53 pm

Well, we recognized here already, that it is not about a pay rise, but about the psension plan.

Read this for details:

http://www.ipe.com/germanys-lufthans...fit-pension-fund/56917.fullarticle

They don't want to keep the fund, they want to change its conditions. 6 to 7 percent interest is simply not more from this world.

[Edited 2014-04-05 10:58:55]

[Edited 2014-04-05 11:01:29]
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
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Aesma
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:12 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 58):
Mediation. I mean, the railroads act did not prevent US carriers from lenghty strikes, Northwest shut down for weeks at a time occasionally, but a 6 week cooling off period should be it.

Hopefully, this will get into Mediation early May and they will find a solution which saves face for both sides.

Meanwhile, I heard the AF pilots intend to strike a full month? Mon Dieu, why not shut down for good?

I don't see the difference between your proposal and what happens already. Mediation means you have to use the threat of a strike to get management to the negotiation table, and for such threat to be effective, strikes have to occur from time to time.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Unflug
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:56 am

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 60):
It's as simple as that!!! That's what this strike is all about!!!

Please tell me why the pilots union has not made your point public, if the strike is about this. Why does the union say something different in TV, in the press releases and on the website?

I think you are wrong. If I go by the words of the pilots union they striked for the right to retire at their own decision any time from 55. Which is ridiculous imo. If they strike for something else, they should say so.
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:44 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 62):
I don't see the difference between your proposal and what happens already. Mediation means you have to use the threat of a strike to get management to the negotiation

you always have to consider the countries conditions. I mentioned the railrooad act in the US as an example. The LH strike can certainly go into Mediation, it is an applicable Instrument in Germany. usually a high ranlking Person, former government for instance, is appointed as mediator and all sit around a table with the Intention to get a result.

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 60):
OKAY, this is it... I have had it!!!

I say that I'm not fishing for compliments here. I put a smily behind the drink, after all, Riyadh is as much a dry place.as Lynchburg bTN.

Quoting Unflug (Reply 63):
Please tell me why the pilots union has not made your point

I think it is two issues, one if the absolute luxury that pilots can retire when they want. Now, I take back the luxury and let's assume it is for safety.I do not want to get further into this subject, I accept that this is not abused.

But harfly any other Airline in the world offers that and LH is not alone on the planet. We have changed conditions in the industry and if a Union and it'smembers do not adjust to the changes, their jobs will be gone for good rather quick, plus all the other Jobs, or many of, in the Company.

Now, no one wants to take away any Thing, but Young pilots starting a career now, will not have the same condtions in the future, that is what it is about.

There is another Company etirement fund different from the above mentioned, pilots demand that the gap between the market interest rates which are 1% and what used to be an interest rate (6% or more) is compensated by the carrier. Now, I beg your pardon, but how can this work? LH has no license to print Money.

It seems to me that at least the pilots managing the Union have little knowledge about economics.

The bottom line is, it is all about featherbedding, the protection of vested rights. The costs for that can nomlonger be earned on the market. The pilots should think about that.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
LH648
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RE: LH Strike: Now It's The Pilots' Turn... Apr 2-4

Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:27 pm

Are there plans for another strike? Have an LH flight on May, 1...

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