ABQ747
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Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:19 pm

After shopping for flights on united.com, I noticed that UA is no longer going to fly from IAD to ABQ. I've always heard that this route has done very well. All the times I've flown it, the planes have been 100% full. This route offered me a convenient way to get back and forth between ABQ and LHR. What happened?
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:25 pm

UA would probably rather connect ABQ customers over their hubs at DEN, IAH, and ORD.You can still connect on to LHR from ORD or IAH. It seems that UA currently doesn't quite know what it wants to do with IAD. Is it a European feeder, is it a SE regional hub, is it for capital to capital service? Those questions have been asked. There have been discussions about UA at IAD in the past week here on the forum.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:29 pm

Washington IAD Vs DCA For Domestic Demand (by knope2001 Mar 24 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Here is one such discussion.
 
ABQ747
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:34 pm

Quoting IAHWorldflyer (Reply 1):
UA would probably rather connect ABQ customers over their hubs at DEN, IAH, and ORD.You can still connect on to LHR from ORD or IAH.

The problem with flying through those cities is that I would get stuck flying on stupid little 50 seat regional jets. CO used to offer all 737 service from IAH to ABQ. It's nothing but ERJs now. UA had 737/A320/757 service from DEN, and it's CRJs and turboprops now.

When I spend $$$$ to fly in BusinessFirst, it's disappointing to get stuck in the back of an ERJ on the domestic leg to ABQ. I have elite status on UA, but I'm considering cutting up my frequent flyer card and switching to AA. They still have all mainline service from DFW.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:37 pm

Because the UN Commission on Human Rights rejected UA's plan to downgrade the route and serve it with a CRJ-200.....
 
toltommy
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:38 pm

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 3):
The problem with flying through those cities is that I would get stuck flying on stupid little 50 seat regional jets.

Sounds like the yield is the issue then. Planes can be 100% full and lose money if they have to sacrifice yield to fill it.
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ABQ747
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:43 pm

Quoting toltommy (Reply 5):
Sounds like the yield is the issue then. Planes can be 100% full and lose money if they have to sacrifice yield to fill it.

The flights weren't exactly cheap. Someone once mentioned this route carries a lot of people connecting to and from European destinations.
 
Malayil
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:29 pm

Not to stray off topic but UA are also cancelling IAD-MIA and FLL which I find absolutely absurd. What is UA doing in the DC area?
 
masseybrown
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:52 pm

Quoting Malayil (Reply 7):
What is UA doing in the DC area?

It seems pretty plain that for financial, crewing, and operational reasons UA cannot operate their full system with the desired level of reliability and profitability. Hence they are shrinking it further. First they tried across the board cuts, then CLE, I guess domestic IAD is next.
 
UA444
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:00 pm

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 4):

No no no, they wanted to do it with an ExpressJet ERJ-145.
 
ORDTLV2414
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:03 pm

Quoting Malayil (Reply 7):

Not to stray off topic but UA are also cancelling IAD-MIA and FLL which I find absolutely absurd. What is UA doing in the DC area?

WHY ARE THEY CANCELLING THIS?? This is a Florida-Northeast market, its supposed to print money for an airline. UA's move preplexs me.
 
CALMSP
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:08 pm

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 10):

even before the merger, sUA was terrible in Floriday outside of MCO/TPA. Clearly even though you really had no startup costs with adding IAD - S Florida, it still is not feasible. You are looking at a market that is more than likely fully dependent on connecting traffic.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:18 pm

I'm surprised ABQ-IAD was still being operated. That's a long, thin flight. Sadly though it's the only mainline UA flight to ABQ at the moment.

Quoting Malayil (Reply 7):
Not to stray off topic but UA are also cancelling IAD-MIA and FLL which I find absolutely absurd. What is UA doing in the DC area?

IAD isn't DCA, and it shows. There isn't a lot of demand for IAD. It wouldn't surprise me if IAD-MIA/FLL was dependent on connecting traffic from the north that can now be better served by EWR.
 
ABQ747
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:43 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 12):
I'm surprised ABQ-IAD was still being operated. That's a long, thin flight. Sadly though it's the only mainline UA flight to ABQ at the moment.

The flight did well for many years. WN also does well on their ABQ-BWI flights....

UA schedules a random B738 on DEN-ABQ every once in a while. They did so earlier this month. That's still a far cry from the all-mainline service they used to run.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:00 pm

Don't worry, the cut probably has more to do with IAD than ABQ. If it is any consolation, UA will continue to offer mainline service at ABQ by upgauging one of the IAH-ABQ flights back to mainline the day after IAD-ABQ ends. IAD-ABQ had a good run for about 7 1/2 years, maybe WN will be interested in applying for a DCA-ABQ perimeter exemption in the future. I believe I have read here on a.net that WN does very well with its BWI-ABQ service.

I give UA credit for trying just about everything from IAD over the years. The problem is that everyone adamantly prefers DCA. Even though DCA has perimeter restrictions, IAD can only manage service to a handful of markets beyond the standard DCA perimeter: AUS, COS, DEN, LAS, LAX, PDX, PHX, SAN, SAT, SEA, SFO, and SMF. Excluding the RJ markets of AUS, COS, and SAT, SMF is the smallest market that works from IAD. With almost 2.5 million people in its metropolitan area, Sacramento is more than twice the size of Albuquerque's metropolitan area. Salt Lake City's metropolitan area of over 2.3 million is almost as populous as that of Sacramento and even it didn't work from IAD (granted, DL does now run 2x daily DCA-SLC flights), leaving no nonstop link on any carrier between IAD and SLC. In addition to SLC, there are several other rather large/significant markets with no IAD service of any kind - BHM, MEM, MKE, PBI, RSW, SJC, and SNA, to name a few. I am pretty sure UA has tried service to all of the aforementioned markets from IAD within the past 10 years or so, though.

All things considered I'd say ABQ has been doing a great job with respect to airline service. All of the legacies have downgauged, as they have in smaller/secondary markets throughout the country. WN has made some cuts, but most of them short hauls - again, reflective of a larger national strategy. I doubt many folks in ABQ miss those nonstops to LBB anyways. F9 pulled out, but WN now offers low fare nonstop service to DEN, as well as much of the same connectivity beyond DEN. However, in the midst of those challenges, ABQ has gained two brand new airlines. B6's JFK-ABQ is said to be doing very poorly, but it seems the airline is giving the route a chance to develop over time. Hopefully the new AS flights prove to be successful.
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UA444
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:07 pm

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 14):

Until 2008 or so, UA had 2x daily IAD-SMF. SMF has always been a pretty strong station for UA and I wish the 2nd daily IAD flight would come back, but I'm glad we've held onto our service. They even had mainline to LAX until the 737s were retired. There's a flight that I wish would come back.
 
ABQ747
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:16 pm

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 14):
Don't worry, the cut probably has more to do with IAD than ABQ. If it is any consolation, UA will continue to offer mainline service at ABQ by upgauging one of the IAH-ABQ flights back to mainline the day after IAD-ABQ ends. IAD-ABQ had a good run for about 7 1/2 years, maybe WN will be interested in applying for a DCA-ABQ perimeter exemption in the future. I believe I have read here on a.net that WN does very well with its BWI-ABQ service.

A WN DCA-ABQ flight would not be a replacement for UA's IAD-ABQ flight. WN doesn't offer transatlantic or transpacific service, and they are not a member of Star Alliance. WN is of no use to me when I need to fly to Europe or Asia.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 14):
B6's JFK-ABQ is said to be doing very poorly, but it seems the airline is giving the route a chance to develop over time.

KRQE reported that the Jetblue flight is doing well, so who knows.

http://krqe.com/2014/03/28/alaska-ai...s-to-begin-nonstop-service-to-abq/
 
doug_or
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:19 pm

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 6):
The flights weren't exactly cheap. Someone once mentioned this route carries a lot of people connecting to and from European destinations.

... Which isn't usually as good for yields as O&D passenegers. Most flights everywhere are full. Its not a matter of loads, its a matter of yields.

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 16):
KRQE reported that the Jetblue flight is doing well, so who knows.

They reported that the city says they're doing well. Wouldn't really put much stock in that.

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 10):
WHY ARE THEY CANCELLING THIS?? This is a Florida-Northeast market, its supposed to print money for an airline. UA's move preplexs me.

Who says that?
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:41 am

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 3):
The problem with flying through those cities is that I would get stuck flying on stupid little 50 seat regional jets. CO used to offer all 737 service from IAH to ABQ. It's nothing but ERJs now. UA had 737/A320/757 service from DEN, and it's CRJs and turboprops now.

If I was in your position I'd go to AA, I've been gold before with AAdvantage and they treat you well. If you fly for business, have your travel company put in a special client request for you with their sales support team. You have a better chance of something "special" happening for you if your travel team goes to bat with an airline rep. I did that for 20+ years, and my sales reps loved me for converting some pretty busy travellers to another carrier based on needs..

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 3):
When I spend $$$$ to fly in BusinessFirst, it's disappointing to get stuck in the back of an ERJ on the domestic leg to ABQ. I have elite status on UA, but I'm considering cutting up my frequent flyer card and switching to AA. They still have all mainline service from DFW.

You must do exactly what you suggested, in fact I'm surprised being in a fairly strong AA city that you are flying UA still, Change can be good, I hope you enjoy it when / if you jump the *A ship, if not, DEN would give you the least RJ time.

I love AA in J DFW-LHR. I was flying the then new, 777s that AA just took delivery of on LGW-DFW when I first started flying this route, what a delight AAs International crews are up in J or F, not sure about Y.

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 17):
Who says that?

This member .....

Quoting Malayil (Reply 7):

Not to stray off topic but UA are also cancelling IAD-MIA and FLL which I find absolutely absurd. What is UA doing in the DC area?
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brilondon
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:36 am

It sounds more like you don't want to fly on little tiny sardine cans more than flying to IAD. My suggestion is to suck it up and fly to DEN or IAH and then fly to wherever you want to go.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
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ua900
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:58 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 15):
Until 2008 or so, UA had 2x daily IAD-SMF. SMF has always been a pretty strong station for UA and I wish the 2nd daily IAD flight would come back, but I'm glad we've held onto our service. They even had mainline to LAX until the 737s were retired. There's a flight that I wish would come back.

Should come back then since CO has a ton of 737s and is still taking new deliveries.

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 13):


The problem with flying through those cities is that I would get stuck flying on stupid little 50 seat regional jets. CO used to offer all 737 service from IAH to ABQ. It's nothing but ERJs now. UA had 737/A320/757 service from DEN, and it's CRJs and turboprops now.

When I spend $$$$ to fly in BusinessFirst, it's disappointing to get stuck in the back of an ERJ on the domestic leg to ABQ. I have elite status on UA, but I'm considering cutting up my frequent flyer card and switching to AA. They still have all mainline service from DFW.

Try AA through DFW, very few regional jets from ABQ to DFW, or that sole IAH flight if you don't cut up your card.
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CALMSP
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:34 pm

however, with more and more MD's leaving the AA fleet, I dont see the likelihood of them being replaced with mainline, so, ABQ-DFW might be in teh same boat as IAH and move towards the RJ fleet.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:24 pm

Just looked at the UA website, and they are putting 2/daily ERJ-170's on the ABQ-IAH route starting next week. It's not a 738, but that is better than a E145!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:17 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 21):
however, with more and more MD's leaving the AA fleet, I dont see the likelihood of them being replaced with mainline, so, ABQ-DFW might be in teh same boat as IAH and move towards the RJ fleet.

If AA is willing to upgauge markets like PNS-DFW to mainline, I can't imagine they'd pull ABQ-DFW down to all's RJ's.

As for IAD-ABQ, I think there's a few things at play.

1) UA is trying to drive up revenues by cutting capacity in many markets. UA's overall mainline fleet is slightly shrinking.
2) Some of the DoD and DoE traffic that was moving back and forth on this route has been cut back because of federal budget cuts.
3) UA is still struggling to figure out how to make IAD work as a hub given the competitive pressures coming from DCA.

[Edited 2014-03-31 08:22:52]
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:41 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 21):
however, with more and more MD's leaving the AA fleet, I dont see the likelihood of them being replaced with mainline, so, ABQ-DFW might be in teh same boat as IAH and move towards the RJ fleet.
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):
If AA is willing to upgauge markets like PNS-DFW to mainline, I can't imagine they'd pull ABQ-DFW down to all's RJ's.

Agreed. Probably it will more likely be a mix of A319s and either A320s or 738s when all MD-80s are retired.
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toxtethogrady
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting ABQ747 (Thread starter):
What happened?

Smisek has made a pigs' ear out of the domestic market, by flying small, fuel-inefficient jets and racking up huge operating costs.
 
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ADent
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:13 pm

The RJs don't have the range to fly ABQ-IAD, so if they powers that be decide that flight is not generating the revenue to cover the use of a mainline aircraft it has to be canceled.

So presuming management is sane the route:
1) Doesn't make money
and/or 2) They found a route they think will make more money
 
tommy767
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:34 pm

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 10):

No idea. Another misstep by mangement.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:40 pm

Quoting Malayil (Reply 7):
Not to stray off topic but UA are also cancelling IAD-MIA and FLL which I find absolutely absurd. What is UA doing in the DC area?

Lately, I have been connecting through CLE and ORD.

The fares are 1/3 cheaper connecting than nonstop IAD-MIA/FLL ( I am not swimming in Business First dollars  ).
 
CALMSP
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:56 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):

upgraded with MD80. Like my statement said, when the MD's are gone, I dont think it would be with 100% certain that 319's or 738 would be thrown on.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:37 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 29):
upgraded with MD80. Like my statement said, when the MD's are gone, I dont think it would be with 100% certain that 319's or 738 would be thrown on.

AA flies ABQ-DFW 7-8x daily, and it would be difficult to replace all that capacity entirely with RJs. Some of those flights may be shifted to the A319 for rightsizing, but I still think there will likely be some A320s and/or 738s as well.
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CALMSP
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:45 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 30):

well, UA also flew mainline more than 7-8x per day to MSY/DFW/AUS/SAT and it was drawn down. So there would be no reason why ABQ could be in the same scneario.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:48 pm

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 10):
This is a Florida-Northeast market, its supposed to print money for an airline

Northeast-FL is the definition of a volume market that breaks even at best in a good year, but not from undesirable airports like JFK, IAD, ISP, etc.

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 11):
sUA was terrible in Floriday outside of MCO/TPA

They basically dropped the state, except for a lawn dart or two to MIA

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 17):
Who says that?

No one.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
tommy767
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:05 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 32):
hey basically dropped the state, except for a lawn dart or two to MIA

UA held mainline stations at TPA and MCO before the merger -- Way to embellish things.

So there were holes in both UA's and CO's network. Want to have a chat about CO's pathetic coverage of the mountain west?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:29 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 33):
UA held mainline stations at TPA and MCO before the merger -- Way to embellish things.

That's exactly what CALMSP said. FLL and PBI were dropped completely.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
CALMSP
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:39 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 33):

pathetic coverage? CO had pretty decent size operations at all the major cities in the mountain west / west coast.

in terms of pathetic, that would include UA to latin america and europe.
 
tommy767
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:52 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 35):

3-class a/c to AMS, FCO, FRA, CDG, ZRH, GVA, etc is pathetic? Not to mention the destinations in Africa that CO never had?

CO was big on secondary destinations on 757s from EWR. UA was game for HVF to the destinations that required it.

Speaking of mountain west, wasn't it CO that couldn't even support a E145 on IAH-BOI?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
CALMSP
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:01 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 36):

yes, pretty small reach for non-stop European destinations.

Africa? LOS served by both, ACC, was absolutely worthless and pulled. CO was starting CAI but pulled it within 2 months of starting the service due to the political environment.

You are using BOI as an example? BOI is not a major business market in the west.
 
IADLHR
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:09 pm

I graduated from UNM in the early 70s and remember quite well some of the flights through ABQ back in the late 60s and early 70s. Especially all the TW flights from ORD which I always took. There was even a red eye ABQ-ORD. There are some places like ICT that are no longer served nonstop ex-ABQ. I also remember some of the interesting things from the old terminal like the tunnel to some of the gates. It really brings back a lot of memories.

As fate would have it, my job, at times, has taken me to ABQ over the years. It was pure coincidence that i was on the inaugural UA IAD-ABQ. I had high hopes for that flight. I am glad it lasted as long as it did. II am surprised that UA couldnt get another summer travel season out of that flight. Interesting. One thing that was really frustrating is that the ABQ-IAD flight time was always changing. For example, For a few months it would be 6:45am ad later it would be 10am and back to 8am and so it went. This was the only mainline UA flight into ABQ and I knew that in the long haul that might not be a good omen .

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 6):
The flights weren't exactly cheap. Someone once mentioned this route carries a lot of people connecting to and from European destinations.

I did post on here one time that there seemed to be many connecting pax from Europe on this flight. It seemed like they were coming from or going to VIE, FRA and LHR. I think I probably saw more pax to or from VIE than anywhere else.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 14):
Don't worry, the cut probably has more to do with IAD than ABQ. If it is any consolation, UA will continue to offer mainline service at ABQ by upgauging one of the IAH-ABQ flights back to mainline the day after IAD-ABQ ends. IAD-ABQ had a good run for about 7 1/2 years, maybe WN will be interested in applying for a DCA-ABQ perimeter exemption in the future. I believe I have read here on a.net that WN does very well with its BWI-ABQ service.

If UA ever figures out how to make domestic IAD work I think this flight will be back. I absolutely think that WN will try and get and get outside perimeter slots for an DCA-ABQ flight when the opportunity arises. They might even try ad get DCA-OKC-ABQ. Back in the late 60s and 70s there was a TW JFK-OKC-ABQ daily flight. I sometimes wonder if OKC-ABQ isnt a glaring ommission in ABQ. JFK-OKC-ABQ lasted for so and with the growth of ABQ and OKC I cant help[ but wonder if there isnt a market there. TW for a very long time also had a DCA-STL-ABQ daily flight. Same plane service, those were the days!

[Edited 2014-03-31 12:15:16]

[Edited 2014-03-31 12:16:08]
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:10 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 37):
Africa? LOS served by both, ACC, was absolutely worthless and pulled. CO was starting CAI but pulled it within 2 months of starting the service due to the political environment.
IAH-LOS was started over a year after the merger, and CAI never actually operated, just FYI.

And just more color in the ABQ discussion, according to T100, ABQ-BWI on WN had 88.8% load factor, UA ABQ-IAD had just 74.3%.

[Edited 2014-03-31 12:26:31]
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3024
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:13 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 39):

IAH-LOS was a CO route previously, just never started due to a/c delays. As for CAI, I did not say it started.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3562
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:29 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 40):
As for CAI, I did not say it started.

Yes you did, here is your quote:

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 37):
CO was starting CAI but pulled it within 2 months of starting the service due to the political environment.

Pulled it within 2 months of starting the service implies that yes...they started which means operated. If you meant, within announcing it, then you should say that. Service was never started to CAI.

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 40):
IAH-LOS was a CO route previously, just never started due to a/c delays.

It was never operated, therefore it was never a CO route. Would you also say IAH-AKL was a "CO route" even though it will never fly? Unless it flew it doesn't count.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3024
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:49 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 41):

LOS was a CO route, not sure why you would think otherwise. And CAI was a CO route as well. CO was starting the route, but never did. Which means everythign was in place, but it was never fully executed.
You can continue to try and look like you are the almighty one if you please.
 
UA444
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 35):
CO dropped RNO, had a token presence in SJC, SNA, SMF, PDX, and the aforementioned BOI and BZN. That goes for the Midwest too, like GRR, ICT, OKC, DSM, TUL, MSP.

UA in Europe had 3 class service to many top tier destinations, and had multiple flights into the big places people want to go like LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA, MUC. CO flying rinky dink 757s into 3rd tier places like TXL is not anywhere comparable.

So yeah, if you want some hollow victory that UA was weak in MIA and PBI, go for it. They were way stronger than CO in most of the rest of the country.

[Edited 2014-03-31 12:56:58]
 
UA444
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:54 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 42):

LOS was transferred from IAD originally, aka a real UA route and then it started after CO disappeared. Therefore, not a CO route.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3024
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:01 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 43):

RNO - not a major market.

As for MIA, I'm not asking for victory on anything. If you can read, please go up and see that I said sUA was very small in Florida outside of MCO/TPA.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5480
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 31):
well, UA also flew mainline more than 7-8x per day to MSY/DFW/AUS/SAT and it was drawn down. So there would be no reason why ABQ could be in the same scneario.

But has AA pulled down those markets to DFW in the same way? While AA is retiring MD80's, they're being replaced pretty much 1:1, so the AA mainline fleet isn't shrinking the way UA's mainline fleet has continued to shrink.
 
UA444
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):

That wasn't what he was quoting, but nice deflection. You said "They basically dropped the state, except for a lawn dart or two to MIA" and Tommy rightly called you out on it by correctly pointing out they continued to have a strong presence in MCO and TPA. Or are those not considered Florida anymore???

Reminds me of your little "UA's order book was full of cobwebs in 2009" comment, when they had 50 planes on order that year. Did a UA plane run your dog over years ago?

[Edited 2014-03-31 13:08:06]
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 42):
LOS was a CO route, not sure why you would think otherwise. And CAI was a CO route as well. CO was starting the route, but never did. Which means everythign was in place, but it was never fully executed.
You can continue to try and look like you are the almighty one if you please.

That's like saying DL flew ORD-LHR (**but it never operated.) Clearly UA was flying to Africa ahead of CO.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 43):
So yeah, if you want some hollow victory that UA was weak in MIA and PBI, go for it. They were way stronger than CO in most of the rest of the country.

It wasn't like CO was ever big in PBI, FLL, or MIA. They were only there for the "steel wheelchair" (aka: senior citizen) demand of winter travelers out of EWR. They were particularly weak in MIA compared to their presence in PBI and FLL. Whereas UA was stronger in MCO than CO, despite CO having an MX base there.

[Edited 2014-03-31 13:08:16]
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3024
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: Why Is UA Dropping IAD-ABQ?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:09 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 48):

was UA really bigger than CO in MCO? MCO, I believe, was the 2nd or 3rd largest station behind LAX. FLL was also up there.

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