Over the years I have heard stories of passengers being permanently "banned" from flying on certain airlines, generally due to their either having caused a flight diversion or some other form of unacceptable behavior. Frankly, I have always wondered if there really is such a list (not to be confused with the TSA "No Fly" list). Do these lists really exist? How are they managed? Does Airline A's computer automatically flag a passenger's name and inform him or her that they are not able to make a reservation? If there is such a ban is it permanent? Who can put them on such a list? What sorts of behavior will get you on them?

I ask this because over the years I have personally seen passengers that were removed from flights by the police or other authorities and were either rescheduled later in the day on another flight or the following day when they sobered up. I had one incident where a passenger hit a female flight attendant so hard that she fell on her back in the aisle. Thankfully, she was not seriously hurt (her watch was destroyed) but we were still at the gate and the perp was removed by the police and jailed overnight. We were assured he would never been seen aboard our flights ever again but did I not run into him the following day in NGO as he was continuing on his way to MNL! Thankfully, our very supportive captain denied the guy transportation (much to the dismay of the Japanese ground staff). But incidents such as these have made me question if such lists really exist and what behaviors will grant you the rather dubious honor of being placed on one.

Truth or urban legend?

Any a.netters out there with any person experience with this?

I can recall some passenger disturbances at my former carrier, including one assault by a passenger on a CSA that left the CSA with permanent disabilities.

Some time later, I was told by a Flt Ops Director that because the airline operated on a "Certificate of Public Convenience" (not sure about the exact wording right now), that the airline could not ban any passenger, because they were part of that "Public" entity.

I was never sure of that, but given the top-heavy nature of attorneys at the carrier, I assumed that a ban was indeed unlikely.

Well, an airline is a commercial business, and as such they have the right to refuse service to anyone, as long as it's not based on gender, race etc.

If a customer causes trouble on an airline's flight and threatens / hurts their staff or vandalizes their property, why should they take the risk and ever let them fly again?

So yes, airlines (much like supermarkets or movie theaters) have their black lists of customers, but what I don't know is whether these lists are shared among competitors. I'd guess it would be a good move to do so.

The only problem with such lists, in my opinion, is if you get listed wrongfully. Example: identity theft. Then you'd have a hard time convincing all parties involved you're not the passenger they think you are.

Soren   

I know back in the "olden" days of the 70's when we denied a passenger boarding the CSA picked up the phone and called the other airlines flying to the same city and told them we had pulled a person for bad behavior. They, in turn, would deny him transportation. I remember several having to rent a car to drive. But things were so much smaller then and less formal. Calling another airline could mean just leaning over the ticket counter partition and whispering to them. But it sure worked!

Yes these lists exist. There are many levels of this list, between "cannot have alcohol" and cannot step foot on a company airplane. You have to do something pretty bad to get on the super naughty list. Ie cause a diversion, assault a crewmember, multiple instances of using bad credit cards etc.

[Edited 2014-03-31 13:46:38]

Wasn't it AZAL Azerbaijan Airways that used to to publish a list on their website of all pax that were to be denied transport on
company aircraft? I can;t seem to find it anymore, but I thought the idea was hilarious. They would list the name, nationality, and actual passport number of each pax, and the list was very interesting to glance at. I noticed a lot of Russian nationals, but you saw everything from Chinese to Israeli, to USA, to Iranian on the list.

I know an airline who sent a letter to an Elite stating we no longer want your business because he was always highly abusive to passengers and crew even after warnings/no alcohol served etc. He was banned from then on and bookings cancelled/refunded.

I don't know if she was ultimately banned (I don't think she was) but I recall this situation involving Congresswoman Shelia Jackson-Lee (D-TX) from Houston:

http://www.houstonpress.com/1998-05-14/news/the-insider/

In early March, Burruss got a phone call from Rebecca Cox, a Continental Airlines governmental affairs vice president at the airline's Washington office. According to Burruss, Cox bluntly declared, "We have been dealing with the congresswoman for three years now, and we are tired of her bad behavior. Something has got to happen."

As an airline Gold Card carrier with plenty of frequent-flier miles, Lee routinely upgrades her airline seats to first class, not an unusual arrangement. But Lee had come to expect other deluxe perks not always available in Continental's non-hub cities, Cox explained. She then described an incident the previous month when Lee boarded a flight at National, and found the menu did not include a seafood special she had wanted.

"She screamed at the top of her lungs at least a minute," Burruss quotes Cox as telling her. "She embarrassed the flight attendants and the passengers in first class. And she embarrassed herself." According to Burruss, Cox claimed Lee declared, "Don't you know who I am? I'm Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. Where is my seafood meal? I know it was ordered!"

When Burruss asked Cox what could be done, Cox asked that her message be relayed directly to Lee, and then joked, "We have already given her the Delta Airlines schedule."

Cox was not available to comment, although a Continental source confirms Cox did call Burruss and discuss problems in dealing with Lee. According to Burruss, Lee routinely demands three first-class reservations on the carrier for Monday and Tuesday when she is in Washington, and then decides at the last minute which one to use. The airline was fed up with the arrangement, and began reducing the reservations to coach class, a development that infuriated Lee when staffers told her they could not guarantee her first-class seats. That conundrum had led to the resignation of Burruss's predecessor, and it contributed to Burruss's own departure as well on March 23.

"I told her I was not able to guarantee her the three first-class reservations," says Burruss, and Lee responded by suggesting that if she couldn't, she should consider alternative places of employment. "That won't be necessary," answered Burruss, who then uttered what must be one of the most frequently used two-word sentences in Lee's congressional office: "I quit."

Such a list would be almost impossible to enforce in a country like Australia where they often do not even check identification documents on domestic flights, especially if you have a boarding pass printed at home and no checked luggage. During the last three years, I have flown SYD-OOL dozens of times and I have always noticed two things:

1- When passing through security I don't have to show anything so you don't even need to be a pax to make it past security.

2- When boarding the plane all they do is scan my boarding pass, my ID has never been checked (mostly flying JQ).

I'm sure anybody who has been 'banned' or wants to hide their identity could book a ticket in a different name and just use that as most likely they will not need to match ID to the name on the ticket. This is also good in a way because if you can't cancel your non-refundable ticket you can always just give the boarding pass to somebody else (who obviously looks like they could be the person whose name is on the ticket) and most likely they will be able to walk straight on to the plane without ever having their ID checked. Whilst very relaxed, this is kind of slack in terms of security IMO...

I'm not sure how enforceable such "bans" are, but as a previous poster noted, companies in other industries at least try to limit customers from entering the premises on the basis of past improper or illegal behavior. I worked briefly for a large department store company. If a customer was caught shoplifting, often if the amount of the merchandise was relatively small the company would decline to prosecute the alleged shoplifter but would have the individual sign a document stating that he or she would never set foot on the premises again. If the alleged shoplifter was noted in the store again he or she would be asked to leave, but obviously it was quite hard to enforce the "ban" since department stores are fairly large open places with lots of people in them and plenty of room to hide or blend in.

Quoting planenutz (Reply 5): Wasn't it AZAL Azerbaijan Airways that used to to publish a list on their website of all pax that were to be denied transport on company aircraft? I can;t seem to find it anymore, but I thought the idea was hilarious. They would list the name, nationality, and actual passport number of each pax, and the list was very interesting to glance at. I noticed a lot of Russian nationals, but you saw everything from Chinese to Israeli, to USA, to Iranian on the list.

You mean this page? (You now only can search instead of seeing the "unwanted passengers")
AZAL blacklist

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Thread starter): Do these lists really exist? How are they managed? Does Airline A's computer automatically flag a passenger's name and inform him or her that they are not able to make a reservation? If there is such a ban is it permanent? Who can put them on such a list? What sorts of behavior will get you on them?

Yes, these lists definitely exist, they are usually just applicable to the individual airline and do not allow passengers on the list to book reservations. Most passengers know why they are on the list, and if they try to book a flight will get a generic we are unable to accommodate your reservation notice, not necessarily a you got banned!!! message.

With the airlines I am familiar with, the corporate security departments oversee and manage these lists. They will take all the relevant information from the customer reservation, or any other information from police reports, etc. and use this to flag any future reservations. As far as who determines who is on this list, usually the supervisors, managers, customer service agents or flight attendants who deal with unruly passengers will file an incident report that's reviewed by corporate security, who makes the determination.

Things that could get you on the list are threatening the crew or fellow passengers, physical altercations, theft, becoming unruly after drinking or using drugs to the point that extreme measures are needed, or even having it be discovered that you are flying to conduct illegal activity such as smuggling or human trafficking.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8): Such a list would be almost impossible to enforce in a country like Australia where they often do not even check identification documents on domestic flights, especially if you have a boarding pass printed at home and no checked luggage. During the last three years, I have flown SYD-OOL dozens of times and I have always noticed two things: 1- When passing through security I don't have to show anything so you don't even need to be a pax to make it past security. 2- When boarding the plane all they do is scan my boarding pass, my ID has never been checked (mostly flying JQ). I'm sure anybody who has been 'banned' or wants to hide their identity could book a ticket in a different name and just use that as most likely they will not need to match ID to the name on the ticket. This is also good in a way because if you can't cancel your non-refundable ticket you can always just give the boarding pass to somebody else (who obviously looks like they could be the person whose name is on the ticket) and most likely they will be able to walk straight on to the plane without ever having their ID checked. Whilst very relaxed, this is kind of slack in terms of security IMO...

These lists usually will block check-in based on Name, Gender, and date of birth provided when booking. (at least at my carrier) In some extreme circumstances, they will be blocked from booking.

A guy picked up one of our gate agents in EWR,broke his neck and walked away free of charges.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/acquittal-in-air-rage-trial/

He was banned for life from flying on Continental by Bethune.

Can there be lists that would ban someone from flying, being served alcohol or being seated near children or women if the person is a known or convicted sexual offender ?

I wonder if SQ banned this guy. He did 2 weeks of jail in Singapore by the way

SIA Steward Subdues Drunk Passenger

Some 6~8 years ago flying DTW-NRT(-BKK) on NW, upstairs on a 744. A fellow ahead of me, who'd been drinking heavily and taken an ambien, headed to the toilet. The NW config had 2 toilets by the cockpit door. He was confused & urinated on the cockpit door.

I chatted with one of the FAs who'd cleaned up the "mess" & asked what would happen. She said she only knew one thing: he'd never fly on NW again. Since I've wondered if he can fly DL!

The lists are real and in spite of "public convenience" issues, a business has an obligation to protect other passengers (and a right to protect staff as well). They can deny/ban for life a person.

Wasn't Liam and Noel Gallagher from Oasis banned from Cathay Pacific several years ago for causing a scene and destroying a PTV?

I know of a guy who's banned for life from an airline because he kept buying "bereavement" tickets, and got recognized by the flight crews who handled him...

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 19): I know of a guy who's banned for life from an airline because he kept buying "bereavement" tickets, and got recognized by the flight crews who handled him.

He wasn't asked to submit the paperwork, or did he fake it?

Quoting tk1244 (Reply 10): You mean this page? (You now only can search instead of seeing the "unwanted passengers")

Put in % in any of the fields. Full list then. I notice they have variable length bans - some 1 year, some up to 100!

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 14): Can there be lists that would ban someone from flying, being served alcohol or being seated near children or women if the person is a known or convicted sexual offender ?

It would be impossible to enforce. My company carries in excess of 130,000,000 passengers a year and it would simply be unmanageable.

I had a guy on the upper deck of the 744 one day that got so mad that his in-seat monitor was not working that he stood up, ripped the entire unit out of the seat and threw it across the cabin. Police met the flight in DTW and I later heard he had to pay over $60,000 in damages for willful destruction.

The Beastie Boys were permanently banned on Eastern Airlines and Holiday Inns back in the 1980s

In germany, Airlines must transport people and accept a contract with anyone, as long as this is not unacceptable:

§ 21 section 2 Luftverkehrsgesetz:

"Luftfahrtunternehmen, die Linienverkehr betreiben, sind außer im Falle der Unzumutbarkeit jedermann gegenüber verpflichtet, Beförderungsverträge abzuschließen und ihn im Rahmen des veröffentlichten Flugplanes zu befördern."

My free translation: Airlines on scheduled air services are obliged to offer transportation contracts to anyone and transport them, unless that is unacceptable.

So I would guess unruly passengers who misbehaved before can be excluded. But this so called "Kontrahierungszwang" means that airlines are n o t free to choose, whom they want to transport and who not. This is an exemption of the rule, that anyone is free to choose whom to sell something and who not.

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 13): A guy picked up one of our gate agents in EWR,broke his neck and walked away free of charges.

After reading the article I don't see why Davis should be banned, it appears that the gate agent started the firght, Davis ended it.

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 13): A guy picked up one of our gate agents in EWR,broke his neck and walked away free of charges.

No, he was charged but found not guilty after evidence showed the gate agent assaulted the passenger.

In 1983, we suffered our last fatal accident. (touching wood) It was a horrible series of events where 23 passengers lost their lives, not just a Canadian Country Singer ... but it hit home, one of our pilot's wives and her friend also died in the accident. To date, our yearly fire-fighting training is very elaborate as a result. (burning galley, burning lav and burning cabin simulators ... with real flames!) Transport Canada always comments on how no other airline goes to such extremes. It is still an open wound for us.

About a week after the accident, a journalist from the Toronto Sun, wrote an editorial about how the "Three fat lazy Flight Attendants made sure they got out first, leaving the passengers to die". Looking at the final report can see that is not true. The purser was at his jumpseat at L1, and the two F/As were in cabin seats handing out wet towels when the aircraft landed. Those two were the last to leave the aircraft alive from the cabin overwing exits. The Captain was the last to leave from the forward exits.

Because of her comments, I had heard she was "banned for life" from flying with us, but never saw anything official. A few months ago, she was a passenger on one of our flights! So like above, it makes me wonder if these non-governmental "no-fly" lists are even workable.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 18): Wasn't Liam and Noel Gallagher from Oasis banned from Cathay Pacific several years ago for causing a scene and destroying a PTV?

Naomi Campbell was banned for life from flying British Airways after a violent outburst on a flight. Then Virgin Atlantic came to the media and said she was welcome to fly with them.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2): Well, an airline is a commercial business, and as such they have the right to refuse service to anyone, as long as it's not based on gender, race etc.

Saudi Airlines' flights departing the USA will not allow a person carrying only an Israeli passport to fly with them. So it looks like airlines may discriminate against race.

Quoting tk1244 (Reply 10):

That is the new version.
before AZAL had just a simple list on their website with First, Last name, nationality and passport number of people which where not allowed on AZAL.
Not only eastern nationals nut also a few English and Scottish people where on that list.
Very interesting reading indeed.

Back in the 80's when I worked in car rental at LHR some people would rent a car same model as their own and switch out parts,took a while to pick up on this. We then shared information with other rental companies, name, lic number and stuff. The practice soon stopped.
Yes airlines should be able to refuse pax who have demonstrated their bad behaviour,just be sure it is the right passenger.

Quoting usa330300 (Reply 29): Saudi Airlines' flights departing the USA will not allow a person carrying only an Israeli passport to fly with them. So it looks like airlines may discriminate against race.

That is politics, not race. How is Israeli a race?

Soren   

Quoting usa330300 (Reply 29): Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2): Well, an airline is a commercial business, and as such they have the right to refuse service to anyone, as long as it's not based on gender, race etc. Saudi Airlines' flights departing the USA will not allow a person carrying only an Israeli passport to fly with them. So it looks like airlines may discriminate against race.

That would be discriminating against nationality, not race.

I seem to remember that United used to ban very unruly passengers. IIRC, one passengers was taken off an United flight at ORD and put into federal custody. After he made bail, he tried to fly home on his existing UA reservation. Supposedly, he was informed at the ticket counter at ORD that he was permanently banned.

Again, I don't remember exactly when this was, but I probably would have gotten the account either from a Chicago newscast or in the Chicago Tribune.

Quoting armitageshanks (Reply 26): No, he was charged but found not guilty after evidence showed the gate agent assaulted the passenger.

Knowing how EWR gate and ground crews can be tough to deal with, I have a feeling a lot would have done the same thing. Back then it didn't matter getting banned from CO as much -- there were more airlines out there to fly since it was the late 90s/early 2000s.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 20): He wasn't asked to submit the paperwork, or did he fake it?

I think that's how he finally got caught...

Quoting usa330300 (Reply 29): Saudi Airlines' flights departing the USA will not allow a person carrying only an Israeli passport to fly with them. So it looks like airlines may discriminate against race.

As already mentioned above it is not discrimination against a race but nationality. Another thing is what would be the point of an israeli to fly to Saudi Arabia since he will not be able to enter the country.

/Lars

Quoting usa330300 (Reply 29): Saudi Airlines' flights departing the USA will not allow a person carrying only an Israeli passport to fly with them. So it looks like airlines may discriminate against race.

Not Quite

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 32): That is politics, not race. How is Israeli a race?

Politics...

Saudi Arabia does not recognize Israel, and therefore a passport from a non-recognized country is not considered valid.

Quoting thaiflyer (Reply 30): Not only eastern nationals nut also a few English and Scottish people where on that list.

If you've hung around with oil workers it wouldn't surprise you that some are banned from flying.

At least some airlines in GVA have some... People doing flight editing have a list they have to look at, and if one of those passenger attempt to checkin, there is an alert message that's pop up saying "DO NOT CHECKIN CALL CIE STAFF"

Reservations and/or airport agents(ticket or gate) agents are able to flag a reservation if they deem a passenger/customer a threat. A manager at the airport is then notified or they can bring up a list, and appropriate measures can be taken such as having a police officer at the gate, or informing the flight crew, to make sure nothing further happens.

Urban legend has it that the Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band (LSJUMB) has been banned from major airlines for attempting to rock the plane side-to-side midflight and systematically removing all window shades from the sunny-side of the plane.

http://lsjumb.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/drupal-7.4/facts

They have several other bans for their antics
Rival Pac-12 schools (just about every hotel in westwood)
Notre-Dame and BYU for religious in-sensitivities
State of Oregon for mocking the Oregon logging industry and spotted owl conservation efforts
Network television stations (NBC didn't show them in the Rose Parade)
Orange bowl 2011
and the list continues...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...-bands-most-awkward-moments/page/1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_Band

Quoting ckfred (Reply 34): seem to remember that United used to ban very unruly passengers. IIRC, one passengers was taken off an United flight at ORD and put into federal custody. After he made bail, he tried to fly home on his existing UA reservation. Supposedly, he was informed at the ticket counter at ORD that he was permanently banned.

There was an infamous case a while back of a UA passenger that defecated (!) on a meal cart. Flight was diverted-he was arrested--and forced to make restitution to the airline and customers and IIRC he got some jail time, too. Bet his name doesn't pop up often on a UA res listing.

Quoting airlineecon (Reply 42): They have several other bans for their antics

I remember watching them when Stanford went to the Sun Bowl, they poked fun at Texas, trailer parks, and tornadoes during their halftime performance. Quite entertaining. Happy for them that they had the good sense not to poke fun at the Latino population  

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 13): A guy picked up one of our gate agents in EWR,broke his neck and walked away free of charges.

He most certainly did not walk away free of charges. He was charged with assault, and acquitted. It had nothing to do with "air rage", and everything to do with two people who didn't know how to behave in public.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2): Well, an airline is a commercial business, and as such they have the right to refuse service to anyone, as long as it's not based on gender, race etc.

Technically, that's inaccurate, at least in the US. Flag airlines hold "common carrier" status, and as such are responsible for accepting for transport anybody who can pay the fare, unless they run afowl of federal laws or cause a safety or security issue.

In practice, in today's over-paranoid society, it isn't hard at all to legally refuse to do business with someone.

Quoting airlineecon (Reply 42): Urban legend has it that the Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band (LSJUMB) has been banned from major airlines for attempting to rock the plane side-to-side midflight and systematically removing all window shades from the sunny-side of the plane.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 44): I remember watching them when Stanford went to the Sun Bowl, they poked fun at Texas, trailer parks, and tornadoes during their halftime performance. Quite entertaining. Happy for them that they had the good sense not to poke fun at the Latino population

They are famous for this (my alma mater). In fact, most of my good friends were in Band. I wasn't, personally.

Years ago at Braniff we had a 727 from JFK-DFW with a bunch of off-shore medical students on board that were absolutely out of control. They frightened some passengers so badly that they were crying. Despite our best efforts they refused to comply and so the captain announced we were diverting to BNA to have them removed. They laughed at us and said "Yeah, right. You are going to land in BNA and have abunch of med students removed." And we did just that! Hope they could drive to Grenada or wherever their school was.

the process is fairly automated. Some airlines will do a screen-search at night for specific names in a PNR or even e-tickets (sometimes both) and simply cancel the reservations & e-tickets, initiate a refund, and generate an email to the passenger. There's not much human interaction when you have an active black-list.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 25): After reading the article I don't see why Davis should be banned, it appears that the gate agent started the firght, Davis ended it.

Quoting armitageshanks (Reply 26): No, he was charged but found not guilty after evidence showed the gate agent assaulted the passenger.

The only evidence of innocence was testimony from his family. There were also witnesses that testified to his guilt. I wonder if they were CO employees or if they are impartial. I don't believe the jury likely knew that he wasn't guilty just that there was reasonable doubt as to his guilt.