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wilco737
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:06 am

Some members may not be aware of the fact that all members have an edit window of 60 minutes, from the time you first make a post in which to add or remove any additional comments or information into/from the post. Please make use of this feature made available to you, for your own convenience, instead of posting one post after another (doubles, triples or more).

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Due to length part 49 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 50:

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 49 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 31 2014 in Civil Aviation)

**********************************************************************************************

**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: What we know so far

MISSING MH370: Timeline

Flight MH370: Police focus on pilots as search for airliner goes on - live updates

Flight MH370: New timeline casts doubt on pilot deception theory

MISSING MH370: ACARS cannot be disabled

MISSING MH370: Search for missing aircraft above politics: Hishamuddin


***********************************************************************************************


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Enjoy the forums!
 
tapir
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:19 am

Reposting- the previous thread was locked by the time I posted and not sure if it would be deleted.



Quoting markalot (Reply 299): Previous thread.


Firstly, Capt Zaharie is just an ordinary member and therefore he would most unlikely to have gained access to attend the hearing. From my past experience attending Anwar's trial, you would need to sign in before being able to go inside the court. If my memory serves me right, on 8 March, police setup roadblock on several points leading to the court house and some opposition politicians too couldn't attend the trial.

And lastly, the court house was swarmed by secret service taking photographs and videos of all those who attended the trial and I doubt they would have missed him for so long in confirming whether the Capt attended the trial or not. Furthermore, most of us not surprised with the outcome of the trial due to the fact that a conviction was the only way to prevent Anwar from contesting a bye-election which nomination was set three days after March 8.
 
AR385
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:21 am

Reposting:

[/quote]

Quoting sipadan (Reply 297):
yes, but the totality of everything that is known about what has transpired most certainly does point an accusatory at Captain Shah

So. Why would he have flown all the way down to the South Indian Ocean? I mean, if he wanted to make a point he would have flown the fully fueled 777 against the Petronas towers, I would think. Or maybe at the KUL airport terminal or something major like that.[/quote]

I´m not saying you are wrong. I´m just saying you are being very audacious in your assumptions and conclusions, up to now. You may very well end up being right. But there is nothing solid to support what you have been writing.

There are two people in the cockpit.

And 237 people behind, no matter what the very competent Malaysians have said about there not being anything suspicious about them.
 
sipadan
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:26 am

Quoting Tapir (Reply 1):
Firstly, Capt Zaharie is just an ordinary member and therefore he would most unlikely to have gained access to attend the hearing. From my past experience attending Anwar's trial, you would need to sign in before being able to go inside the court. If my memory serves me right, on 8 March, police setup roadblock on several points leading to the court house and some opposition politicians too couldn't attend the trial.

ordinary...who just so happened to be close friends with Anwar's attorney, a ranking member in the party. And, who Anwar himself said was related to him through in-law's. And, who Anwar himself said that he had met at least a couple of times after having his memory "jarred". Do you dispute this???
 
tapir
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:31 am

Quoting sipadan (Reply 3):

I am sorry but you just do not know what you are talking about. The lawyer cum MP Sivarasa is not as prominent as you would like him to be. We have too many MPs and assemblymen for such a small country and almost everyone get to take shot with the favourite MP. THe said MP is also the MP where Capt Zaharie votes.


Watch CNN interview about Capt Zaharie relation with Anwar. it went on something like " your daughter's husband's mother's borther's sister's son etc etc". Do you expect a political like Anwar to remember everyone he met? I too have some messages exchanged including congratulatory wishes from him to my son. Honestly, Anwar would not even remember me or my name.

[Edited 2014-04-02 22:38:51]
 
sipadan
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:36 am

[/quote]
[/quote]

Quoting Tapir (Reply 4):
I am sorry but you just do not know what you are talking about. The lawyer cum MP Sivarasa is not as prominent as you would like him to be. We have too many MPs and assemblymen for such a small country and almost everyone get to take shot with the favourite MP. THe said MP is also the MP where Capt Zaharie votes.

no..was he or was he not the attorney for Anwar in the sodomy trial? And was he or was he not a close friend of Ahmed Zaharie Shah?? Please answer these questions. thank you.
 
rj777
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:38 am

Well, I said back in part 20 something that I was sure we'd find the plane by now. Guess I was wrong. Hope we find it by part 100! (If the mods allow it to go that far!)
 
tapir
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:51 am

Quoting sipadan (Reply 5):
no..was he or was he not the attorney for Anwar in the sodomy trial? And was he or was he not a close friend of Ahmed Zaharie Shah?? Please answer these questions. thank you.

I don't think Sivarasa was the counsel for Anwar's sodomy trial. The lead counsel is Karpal Singh the opposition leader of DAP and currently facing imprisonment for sedition after he was convicted around Mrch 18. The counsel on record was always one Mr Sankara Nair who name was absent in sodomy 2 appeal. Sivarasah is acting for Anwar on other defamation matter but not on the sodomy trial. he is not much of a criminal lawyer.

Once again, I saw the photograph of Capt Zaharie and the MP tweeted by Sivarasah on 8 or 9 March. I remember the words like " life member of PKR".."strong supporter" ...but never remember reading the word close friend. I think both of them are from the same PKR branch.
 
sipadan
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 am

Quoting Tapir (Reply 7):
Once again, I saw the photograph of Capt Zaharie and the MP tweeted by Sivarasah on 8 or 9 March. I remember the words like " life member of PKR".."strong supporter" ...but never remember reading the word close friend. I think both of them are from the same PKR branch.

okay, here's this. Anwar speaking to reporters outside of parliament. Anwar "I am not denying that he is related to one of my in-laws and that I have met with him on at least several occasions. In fact, he is a CLOSE friend of (PKR supreme council member) of R. Sivarasa".

are you saying that this is not true??? What do I not know what I am talking about?? and, let me say again...the investigation has info that is not being released b/cause of criminal nature of investigation. It is widely held that several PKR members have publicly commented on Shah being AT the trial.
 
tapir
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:33 am

Quoting sipadan (Reply 8):
okay, here's this. Anwar speaking to reporters outside of parliament. Anwar "I am not denying that he is related to one of my in-laws and that I have met with him on at least several occasions. In fact, he is a CLOSE friend of (PKR supreme council member) of R. Sivarasa".

are you saying that this is not true??? What do I not know what I am talking about?? and, let me say again...the investigation has info that is not being released b/cause of criminal nature of investigation. It is widely held that several PKR members have publicly commented on Shah being AT the trial.

Sorry. I meant to say you were over emphasising Sivarasa's role. I believe the article originated from the guardian or the daily mail. I think only Sivarasa or Capt Zaharie is the right person to judge their relationship. This is the actual interview Anwar explaining his relationship with Zaharie and whether he was there. as I mentioned before there were many who could even reach the court house on that day.

http://anilnetto.com/governance/acco...h370-cnns-interview-anwar-ibrahim/

[Edited 2014-04-02 23:35:40]
 
sipadan
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:51 am

Quoting Tapir (Reply 9):
Sorry. I meant to say you were over emphasising Sivarasa's role. I believe the article originated from the guardian or the daily mail. I think only Sivarasa or Capt Zaharie is the right person to judge their relationship. This is the actual interview Anwar explaining his relationship with Zaharie and whether he was there. as I mentioned before there were many who could even reach the court house on that day.

http://anilnetto.com/governance/acco...h370-cnns-interview-anwar-ibrahim/


interesting interview...the US news org's never aired this to my knowledge. Also, not to contradict you again, but that Sivarasa is/was one of Anwar's counsel on the sodomy case is without dispute. There are articles literally everywhere about his role in the trial...I'm honestly at a loss with how you could say otherwise...reading almost any article about counsels role in the trial references Sivarasa...you live in Malaysia, right (KL?). You said "Sivarasa is acting for Anwar on other defamation matter but not on the sodomy trial". And you are saying that I don't know what I am talking about? Please respond to this???
 
tapir
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:57 am

Quoting sipadan (Reply 10):

There were many taking small roles in this sodomy trial. I think the firm on record for the appeal process was Sivarasa's firm. There were many other applications including several disqualification of Shafee the private prosecutor specially hired by the government for this appeal. he may have played small role in the preliminary and procedural stage but not in in the trial proper.


This is the trial on March 7 and you can see Sivarasa's name absent from the hearing.


http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/256282

[Edited 2014-04-02 23:58:13]
 
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seahawk
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:59 am

I think we should keep politics out of it for the time being. If the captain had something to do with the incident is pure speculation, even if you would be a profiler with access to all data, it is even more speculation for us. Maybe if they find the plane we will learn what happened and why.

At the moment we should focus on finding the plane and not on how it got there.
 
sipadan
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:25 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 12):
I think we should keep politics out of it for the time being. If the captain had something to do with the incident is pure speculation, even if you would be a profiler with access to all data, it is even more speculation for us. Maybe if they find the plane we will learn what happened and why.

I understand the thrust behind what you are saying, and the tit for tat posting between myself and tapir was not really appropriate for the forum at large (there just happens to really be no one else posting). However, the notion that some speculation is Okay (such as flight paths, outlandish theories, the entire forum), whereas political fact and speculation somehow is not I disagree with. Maybe we won't find the plane until we have an idea as to what might have happened? Yeah, I'm sure the political aspect of this is annoying to a great many on this forum...to bad, because there is no denying that it is THE most relevant issue, immediately becoming so when the official investigation itself reaffirms that they "ONLY believe this to be a deliberate act". I still appreciate your sentiment.
 
na
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:11 am

Did any jounalist ask wether one of the pilots or a passenger (I know the passengers are cleared of any guilt since yesterday) left his family with a very high life insurance? If not the journalists are stupid. And if they did what was the answer? If it was along the lines of "we are still investigating" then you know the authorities indeed must be hiding something because any internee would have found that out by now.

[Edited 2014-04-03 01:39:29]
 
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jetfuel
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:30 am

Quoting na (Reply 14):
Did any jounalist ask wether one of the pilots or a passenger (I know the passengers are cleared of any guilt since yesterday) left his family with a very high life insurance? If not the journalists are stupid. And if they did what was the answer? If it was along the lines of "we are still investigating" then you know the authorities are indeed must be hiding something because any internee would have found that out by now.

I agree. I have been asking this for weeks
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
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p51tang
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:05 am

Quote:
AR385 thread 49

I´m very sorry to hear that. I´ve suffered from that too and yes, it´s horrible. I really hope you´ve gone through therapy and medications, both of which helped me a lot, along with major lifestyle changes.

Having said that, it´s impossible from looking at two pictures to figure out the state of mind of a person you´ve never had contact with. Worth mentioning too, is that you are implicitly accusing the Captain of having been the responsible person which is rather not fair. So let´s forget the smiling picture hypothesis until more evidence than two pictures is available.

That's all good in my books.Preventive measures.That's all.  
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:16 am

Another few days and the pings will end...making the search more complicated.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
David L
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:31 am

Quoting sipadan from Part 49:

Quote:
more objective...lol. More knowledgable, well that's quite a relative concept. Why isn't the state of mind, life, politics etc of the flight crew germane, in the most crucial of ways, to this incident? Why choose to ignore these things as if they don't exist, or simply aren't relevant? Of course they are relevant and are, as such, open for discussion. I'm sorry you feel otherwise, but I couldn't disagree more strongly.

To clarify, I was talking about the search efforts and the technical aspects of the investigation. I'll leave Malaysian politics to those who know more about them.

For the record, I still have very fond memories of two spells (two years each) living on the outskirts of Seremban during my childhood. I was far too young to care about politics then and I haven't followed Malaysian politics since so I'm in no position to "take sides".
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:16 am

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 17):
Another few days and the pings will end...making the search more complicated.

I am waiting for the imaginary count down clock to show up on our TV channels.
All posts are just opinions.
 
namezero111111
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:36 am

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 17):
Another few days and the pings will end...making the search more complicated.

*May* end. The pingers are guaranteed to emit a signal for a *minimum* of 30 days. They may emit for longer, but not for shorter.
 
PlaneInsomniac
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:46 am

Not sure if posted here already:

The FBI has completed of review of the in-home flight simulator that belonged to the captain of the missing Malaysia Airlines passenger jet and found “nothing suspicious whatsoever.”

“They (FBI analysts) have finished with the simulator. There is nothing suspicious whatsoever about what they found,” a senior U.S. official told ABC News.

“There’s nothing at all (criminal) about the pilot. Right now there is zero evidence of a criminal act by the flight crew,” the official said.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...lane-in-captains-flight-simulator/
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:55 am

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 17):

Another few days and the pings will end...making the search more complicated.

They'd already be at about half-power by now, so it's already more complicated.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
NAV30
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:58 am

Quoting namezero111111 (Reply 20):
The pingers are guaranteed to emit a signal for a *minimum* of 30 days. They may emit for longer

Agree, namezero111111. However, both the currents and the wind in that area are from the west - as I understand it, any floating debris (even if any can be found) will likely be some hundreds of miles east of the original crash site. And the pingers involved only have very limited range at depth. Nor will the fleet have much of an idea which way to head from the current position of the search ships.

Sorry to be pessimistic, but I can't help feeling that the odds against finding the pingers (given that only one appropriately-equipped ship is heading for the area) have to be very long at present?

[Edited 2014-04-03 05:04:38]
 
PlaneInsomniac
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:00 pm

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 17):
Another few days and the pings will end...making the search more complicated.

Guys, the search is over. Compare AF447: Positively identified floating debris was encountered on the day of the crash. It then took them two years to locate and salvage the black boxes. In the case of Adam Air 574, most of the plane has not been found until today.

Even if they find MH370 debris and are able to positively identify it today, it will have drifted off significantly from the crash site at an unknown speed and direction over almost a month. That's already discounting the scenario of some sort of (incremental) in-flight breakup, meaning any piece found could have plunged into the sea many miles from where the plane eventually went down.

Most of the debris will either have sunk already or has become unrecognizable among the gigantic pools of filth and garbage that our oceans have become.

What we need is a giant stroke of luck. Unfortunately, right now the scenario that MH370 will remain an unsolved mystery at least for many years becomes more probable with each passing day.
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:15 pm

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 24):
Even if they find MH370 debris and are able to positively identify it today, it will have drifted off significantly from the crash site at an unknown speed and direction over almost a month.

Currents are known. Winds can be calculated. The search aircraft have been dropping buoys to measure drift since the search first switched to the Indian ocean. If debris is found, they'll have quite a good idea where to narrow the search after some time with a Cray.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
namezero111111
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:16 pm

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 23):

I agree with you 100%. I just want to dispel the myth that at 30 days and 0 seconds the pingers stop transmitting. This seems to be a myth that mass media and non-aviation folks are promulgating.

[Edited 2014-04-03 05:17:10]
 
asetiadi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:21 pm

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 24):
Guys, the search is over.

Because the government of Malaysia doesn't want the rest of world find the damn plane or because the pilot doesn't want us to find the plane.

Something is fishy... You can't just lose a B777 unless you want it to be disappeared.
 
markalot
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:24 pm

sipadan in the previous thread said:

>> just curious as to what does make someone a mass murderer, since you claim to no what does not?

Stop trolling please, that's not a valid assumption. I did not say I knew what made someone a mass murderer, I said wearing a t-shirt and being politically active does not make one a mass murderer.

I see you don't really want to have a conversation about this so I'll leave it at that. I understand the connection you are trying to make, it's an interesting theory, but I don't think it's correct.
M a r k
 
rfields5421
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:32 pm

Quoting sipadan (Reply 10):
but that Sivarasa is/was one of Anwar's counsel on the sodomy case is without dispute.

In major criminals trails in the US, it is not unusual to have 30 or 50 counsel (lawyers) on a defendant's team, and that many working for the prosecution. A defendant very likely will only know a very few of them well. If this was a big a political focused trial as indicated on this thread - I would be shocked if only a half dozen or so lawyers were on the defense team, and also shocked if the defendant was really involved with / knew more than a handful.

Quoting na (Reply 14):
Did any jounalist ask wether one of the pilots or a passenger (I know the passengers are cleared of any guilt since yesterday) left his family with a very high life insurance? If not the journalists are stupid. And if they did what was the answer? If it was along the lines of "we are still investigating" then you know the authorities indeed must be hiding something because any internee would have found that out by now.

The investigators said early one that there was no unusual life insurance purchase related to the flight on record. The Malaysian investigators asked all the countries of origin to check each passenger for several things, including other high life insurance policies. The investigation have apparently reported back that nothing suspicious has been found. The crew members insurance situation was reported in the first week as nothing suspicious.

In the US, the pilots should have between $750,000 and $1,500,000 life insurance (10-20 years salary is the normal recommendation for high income people with families). As a mid-level IT worker, I used to carry $1.5 million life insurance through my work.

As far as the life insurance angle - the method of the aircraft disappearing would argue against a life insurance scheme, because without proof of a crash and proof of a death (i.e. body) - it will take over a year to get most of the passengers and crew declared legally deceased. High value life insurance which some of the passengers certainly had just by the nature of their jobs as business executives - will not pay off without proof of death for two to seven years. From what I've seen of the passenger profiles, I expect at least two dozen to have over million dollar insurance policies provided by their employer as part of their compensation package. Those are the families who will be suing for 15-20 million for lost future earnings of the passenger.

As far as the journalists - the question was asked several times in the early press conferences. It's none of the journalists, or the public's, business how much life insurance passenger or crew member X had.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
PlaneInsomniac
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:02 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 25):
Currents are known. Winds can be calculated. The search aircraft have been dropping buoys to measure drift since the search first switched to the Indian ocean. If debris is found, they'll have quite a good idea where to narrow the search after some time with a Cray.

Ok, I'll give you that they would have some idea where to narrow the search. However, the resulting area would certainly still be significantly larger that in the case of AF447, taking inaccuracies and the long elapsed time into account. And even in the case of AF447, they were barely able to locate the plane on the ocean floor and salvage the black boxes.

That is, if any found debris is actually found inside any of the various search areas they have been trying out so far - and not stumbled upon by some random ship elsewhere or washed ashore a few weeks / months from now.
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
cpqi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:07 pm

On the 19th March the NY Post suggested 10 theories. I was wondering what the facts are for each of these now. In my humble way here are some views:

Fire - most unlikely as the plane would not have flown for so long afterwards
Decompression - possible with people blacking out, but there seems to have been too much deliberate action
Mechanical Failure - same as a fire for me, too much flying afterwards
Hijacking - more likely but why have the hijackers not made themselves known
Terror Attack - unlikely as someone would have claimed responsibility by now.
Pilot Involvement - this is looking increasingly probable, however for what purpose ?
Pilot Suicide - not likely as the plane would have been crashed much sooner
Plane landed and hidden - I'm not ruling this out yet. I agree it must involve a conspiracy but it is possible
Cover-up - I will say something is being covered up. Whether it is just information or something more sinister time will tell
Theft - It is not so easy to sell a stolen airliner so for what purpose

Nothing really fits well, but then if it did the mystery would be solved by now. How many of these 10 can now be ruled out definitively ? and are there any others that investigators should be considering ?
I hate turbulence
 
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pvjin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:32 pm

Quoting cpqi (Reply 31):
Pilot Suicide - not likely as the plane would have been crashed much sooner

Not if the pilot wanted to hide all the evidence as well as possible.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
solarflyer22
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:44 pm

Quoting namezero111111 (Reply 26):
I agree with you 100%. I just want to dispel the myth that at 30 days and 0 seconds the pingers stop transmitting. This seems to be a myth that mass media and non-aviation folks are promulgating.

Yeah, it should last a little longer than the guaranteed 30 days but its still a miracle if they find it soon. Its already at half power at day 15 and the max rated depth is actually 14,000 FT deep, not the 20,000 feet deep water in that vicinity. They have a few ships listening and one with a towed array but even then the range is a problem. The Trafalgar class sub the UK sent in they said would have to be right on top and within 1 mile to hear the ping. I suspect that's a gross understatement by the MoD to preserve secrecy regarding their sub's listening capabilities but I really doubt they could hear it past 10-15 miles. That's really nothing when your search area is the size of the Western United States.

I'm not even convinced the air dropped sonar buoys can hear this thing. Its looking a lot like AF447 where they are going to have to get a fleet of side scanning sonar ships and essentially map a huge portion of the sea floor. They might as well do it anyway. I am sure that remote stretch is not well mapped and for all we know there is some scientific value in remapping it.

I do think Malaysia, the US and Australia have probably resolved to not finding the pingers in time though they are not saying it publicly. It can still be recovered but its going to be a massive international undertaking and it cannot be done quickly unless you are really lucky.
 
71Zulu
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:01 pm

Quoting namezero111111 (Reply 20):
*May* end. The pingers are guaranteed to emit a signal for a *minimum* of 30 days. They may emit for longer, but not for shorter.

Or not at all as was the case in AF447, they were damaged and did not work.
 
milesrich
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:02 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 12):
I think we should keep politics out of it for the time being. If the captain had something to do with the incident is pure speculation, even if you would be a profiler with access to all data, it is even more speculation for us. Maybe if they find the plane we will learn what happened and why.

The longer the plane is truly missing, the more speculation there will be. The Malaysian Government has not exactly been forthcoming with evidence, and almost seems to be involved in a cover up. This is not like conspiracy theories in the United States, that are hatched and spread on the Internet or were spread through traditional print in the past. Bill Clinton had no reason to shoot down or cover up a shooting down of TWA 800 as conspiracy theorists claim, but in the United States, we do not put losing candidates on trial for sodomy either. There is "smoke" present here that indicates fire. I would not put it past the government to sabotage the plane to eliminate the captain, and let the passengers and other crew members perish in the process. I am not saying that happened, but is more than possible.

At the moment we should focus on finding the plane and not on how it got there.

Finding the plane of course will lead hopefully to the cause of how it got there.

Quoting namezero111111 (Reply 20):
*May* end. The pingers are guaranteed to emit a signal for a *minimum* of 30 days. They may emit for longer, but not for shorter.

I have read or heard on legitimate news programs, (and yes I know, they use Mary Schiavo as an expert, so whatever is said may be completely bogus), that if the FDR, and CVR are not stored properly, i.e., if they are stored in a non climate controlled room, where there is greater temperature variance, the battery life can be compromised and often not last more than two weeks.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 29):

Quoting sipadan (Reply 10):
but that Sivarasa is/was one of Anwar's counsel on the sodomy case is without dispute.

Exactly, which is why if the Malaysian Government would go to the trouble to put on a show trial to convict a political opponent of a sodomy charge, they are likely to take other extreme measures, and that includes the murder of 300 people.

In major criminals trails in the US, it is not unusual to have 30 or 50 counsel (lawyers) on a defendant's team, and that many working for the prosecution. A defendant very likely will only know a very few of them well. If this was a big a political focused trial as indicated on this thread - I would be shocked if only a half dozen or so lawyers were on the defense team, and also shocked if the defendant was really involved with / knew more than a handful.

I don't know what trial you are talking about, but no defendant, not even John Edwards or O.J. Simpson can afford to have ten lawyers at their counsel table at one time. Simpson had the most in recent memory, and he usually had three to four there at the same time. Johnny Cochran, Robert Shapiro, Barry Scheck, Alan Dershowitz, F. Lee Bailey, and Robert Kardashian were all on his team, but I don't believe they were ever in the courtroom all at the same time. Kardashian was a personal friend of his who sat at counsel table with him. Dershowitz was hired to file an appeal if he was convicted and was not there for most of the trial, and has said that some of the time he spent in the courtroom was his own time, not billable hours.

But to claim anyone has 30 lawyers in the court room is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Do you have any idea how much that would cost? Even though criminal defense attorneys work for a fixed fee, rather than bill hourly, the fixed fee relates loosely to an hourly charge. At even $200.00 an hour, that would cost $6,000.00 an hour or $48,000.00 a day. And what lawyer now works for $200.00 an hour for courtroom time, especially a high profile defense attorney? Do the math. The allegation as I said is ridiculous.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:10 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 33):
Yeah, it should last a little longer than the guaranteed 30 days but its still a miracle if they find it soon. Its already at half power at day 15

It's actually at half power by day 30.
Source: http://www.hydro-international.com/i...Deepwater_Black_Box_Retrieval.html

Quote:
The maximum detection range is determined primarily by the frequency and the transmission power, with an initial source level of 160.5dB re 1µPa @ 1m, which reduces to 157.0dB re 1µPa @ 1m, after 30 days.

That's a 3.5dB reduction in power, some quick math 10^(-3.5/10) = ~0.45 or 45% power.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
LH526
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:17 pm

Quoting cpqi (Reply 31):
Fire - most unlikely as the plane would not have flown for so long afterwards

Fire could have destroyed the FBW systems / computers / bay etc and extinguished ... rendering the B777 into a flying sarkophagus unable to steer or navigate
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
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Francoflier
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:27 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 37):
Fire could have destroyed the FBW systems / computers / bay etc and extinguished ... rendering the B777 into a flying sarkophagus unable to steer or navigate

If it had destroyed the FBW or autopilot system, the aircraft would not have flown for several hours.

For the fire scenario to work, it would have had to be a very selective and time constrained fire...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
phantomx18
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:45 pm

Not sure if this was posted yet (only read 48/50 threads so far):

MH Safety Card from a 777-200 was supposedly found on the coast of Australia today by a person working at a trash recycling plant, per Reddit thread:

http://imgur.com/cSjjubx

http://imgur.com/a/zlXQ4

http://i.imgur.com/nt6euaO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3JWh4qp.jpg

Here are the ongoing comments thread:

http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comment...d_this_at_work_today_in_australia/
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:52 pm

Quoting phantomx18 (Reply 40):

Found in a garbage recycling plant on the other side of Australia.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
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cougar15
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:56 pm

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 39):
this idea is stupid

well, for the sake of reason... do you have any better ideas, especially in regards to the 10 possible Scenarios from the NYT listed above, ? Nothing makes any sence for MH370 and we are basically almost one month on and none the wiser!

On another note, German and Russian Press continue to mention the 3 tones of Gold it was suppose to have been in the cargo holds. has that ever seriously been denied? I tried in vain to follow the 50 threads, but may have missed it!

[Edited 2014-04-03 07:59:47]
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:10 pm

The cargo was mangosteens, gold, a rare USA controller weapon, a UFO, maybe the ark of the covenant ...they haven't released the cargo manifest and they have not been precise on its weight AFAIK.

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
spacecadet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:27 pm

Quoting cpqi (Reply 31):
Fire - most unlikely as the plane would not have flown for so long afterwards

  

Quote:
Decompression - possible with people blacking out, but there seems to have been too much deliberate action

  

"Too much" is an understatement - *any* deliberate action after contact was lost with controllers pretty much rules this out. And the flight path this plane took can't be random.

The timeline there is important. You can argue that the pilots could have programmed the FMC at the first sign of trouble, but then they wouldn't be signing off with controllers as if nothing was going on. In this scenario, the flight path changed after their last contact, which makes no sense if they're incapacitated.

Quote:
Mechanical Failure - same as a fire for me, too much flying afterwards

Also you'd have to explain the loss of comms and transponder, which would seem to have to happen separately from any mechanical scenario that would affect flight controls.

Quote:
Hijacking - more likely but why have the hijackers not made themselves known

Lots of potential reasons. Maybe they tried but they couldn't figure out how to work the radios. (Remember how on 9/11, the opposite happened - the hijackers ended up making announcements intended for the passengers over the radio. Often these guys seem to just press random buttons and then speak into whatever microphone they find.) Maybe they wanted to give themselves the best chance of success without being shot down. This question has potential answers that make perfect sense to me.

The passengers have all been cleared but the cabin crew apparently has not.

Quote:
Terror Attack - unlikely as someone would have claimed responsibility by now.

I pointed out way back in about thread #2 that Al Qaeda never claimed responsibility for 9/11 and in fact continues to deny it. We had to piece together the evidence (and got a nice "smoking gun" video tape of bin Laden talking about it after capturing one of his lieutenants).

It would play right into terrorists' hands for conspiracy theorists to believe somebody shot this plane down intentionally and is now covering it up. So this theory seems possible to me.

Quote:
Pilot Involvement - this is looking increasingly probable, however for what purpose ?

I dunno, what purpose did a guy have yesterday for shooting a bunch of people at Fort Hood and then killing himself?

Quote:
Pilot Suicide - not likely as the plane would have been crashed much sooner

Again, you're trying to apply reasoning and rationality to what would be an unreasonable, irrational act. Past pilot suicides have happened quickly; that doesn't mean they all have to follow that pattern.

Quote:
Plane landed and hidden - I'm not ruling this out yet. I agree it must involve a conspiracy but it is possible

It's very remote, though, because we pretty much know it couldn't have gone north. However, where it is along that southern arc has already been revised once. There is a large part of Java that's technically within that southern arc. I don't know whether there are any airfields there, but the plane could theoretically have crashed on land there as well.

Quote:
Cover-up - I will say something is being covered up. Whether it is just information or something more sinister time will tell

What evidence do you have of a coverup?

I do agree that some of what we've seen, with the constant backtracking, revision of basic known facts (like the pilots' last words), etc. could really only be explained by *either* incompetence or some sort of coverup. But there's an old saying that goes, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." I wouldn't intend to use that phrase literally here, but I think the intent of it - that it's always a lot more likely to be simple incompetence than anything nefarious - applies to this investigation.

Quote:
Theft - It is not so easy to sell a stolen airliner so for what purpose

If you believe this theory, another 9/11 somewhere. But it seems extremely unlikely given that the satellite data shows it flew to the south, and we probably would have found it by now if it was sitting on a tarmac somewhere.

Quote:
Nothing really fits well, but then if it did the mystery would be solved by now.


I think several of these theories actually fit well, if you don't try to apply the reasoning of a rational, law-abiding person to what would be a crazy, criminal act.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
FltAdmiralRitt
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:45 pm

I wonder if the NTSB guys have access to enough schematic details of the 777, to be able to put this common idea to a test, mentioned below, at least in theory.

There could have been an explosion in the Cargo Bay, Near the EE bay, but not a fire or not a big one
at least. It's cause, who knows. But this event could have knocked out some systems. This damage to the EE bay, could
have left partially loose panels. with exposure to tropical humidity and even modest turbulence
electrical arcs would likely happen resulting in....

A series of cascading failures. In the sequence that we are familiar with. We can assume that
whatever fumes cause the explosion, eventually crept into the cockpit and overwhelmed the crew.

This is the only series of events that would bring down that plane, that is mechanically related.
But There could be other mechanical failures resulting in something similar as well that
we have not thought about here, due to the complexity of the aircraft.

I don't think mechanical failure is the leading probability.
Indeed I put this at 20% vs 70% Human Agent caused. and 10% some unknown cause (not UFO's or Super Villains)
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:04 pm

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 47):
This is the only series of events that would bring down that plane, that is mechanically related.
But There could be other mechanical failures resulting in something similar as well that
we have not thought about here, due to the complexity of the aircraft.

How about a laptop letting go in the cockpit and debris hitting the CB panel? The FAA has a database of 130+ consumer product Li-Ion incidents - and it's pure chance that some of them did not do a lot more damage. For anyone who hasn't seen what happens when a laptop lets go, here are a couple of videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pizFsY0yjss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC0UWIYswKI
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
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seahawk
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:06 pm

Cleared means there is nothing obviously suspicious about them.
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:12 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 46):
Quote:
Pilot Suicide - not likely as the plane would have been crashed much sooner

Again, you're trying to apply reasoning and rationality to what would be an unreasonable, irrational act. Past pilot suicides have happened quickly; that doesn't mean they all have to follow that pattern.

i disagree. pilot suicides are most likely always quick because one person has to take the plane down with a whole lot of people who don't necessarily want to die!

pilot suicide makes sense only if we assume he managed to incapacitate everyone else on the plane. that is a big hurdle to jump for the logic to make sense. a long flight makes it that much more likely that he would have been thwarted.

my take, when you look at the purported flight path, is that the pilot/pilots wanted to hide. or that someone told him to hide.
 
Backseater
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:13 pm

Humans, just like airplanes are predictable when they don't suffer from serious "mechanical" failure.

Nobody likes to entertain the idea that pilots that we entrust with out lives could suddenly become irrational. But more and more "official" hints seem to drift slowly but surely towards incriminating the Captain.

Malaysian investigators have a lot more info that we have (maybe that we'll ever have), including sealed evidenced that must contain medical records of all the crew. Medical check up given to pilots are thorough (correct me if I am wrong) but they assume that the pilot is honest and cooperative. They are not designed to diagnose a serious illness whose symptoms would not be obvious unless the pilot volunteers that information. I would assume that Malaysian authorities would by now have additional medical records from other sources.

Apparently the captain personality changed radically during at least the last six months, according to interviews that I read of his close family. I knew a friend of mine who was an extraordinary guy. Looked and behaved like a "George Clooney". The absolute Mr nice guy! Nice to his wife and friends, open and helpful at any time. Great to be with.

Then his personality starting changing rapidly. His entourage could not recognize him as being the same person. He became angry, vindictive, sometimes instilling fear in his own wife.

A year after he changed, he died of a serious "mechanical" failure: a brain tumor.

[Edited 2014-04-03 09:18:34]
 
na
Posts: 9835
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 50

Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:22 pm

Quoting cpqi (Reply 31):
Fire - most unlikely as the plane would not have flown for so long afterwards

Certainly not a big fire, but what if it was a small fire destroying communications and other equipment and which could be extinguished? Like the Egyptair 777 fire two years ago? It doesnt fit very good but together with other things could have happened.

Quoting cpqi (Reply 31):
Mechanical Failure - same as a fire for me, too much flying afterwards

Depends on what kind of mechanical failure. There have been several crashes hours after a mechanical/structural failure.

Quoting cpqi (Reply 31):
Hijacking - more likely but why have the hijackers not made themselves known

Because they were somehow overwhelmed after largely disabling the plane or the pilots, or because their intention was suicide? But there wasnt any suspicious person on board apparently.

Quoting cpqi (Reply 31):
Pilot Suicide - not likely as the plane would have been crashed much sooner

Wrong. Pilot suicide for me fits the scenario best. Who did it surely knew that all former pilot suicides have been cleared up as they happened early in the flight. Best way to hide it is flying long hours (overwriting the voice recorder) and flying towards the remotest part of this planet possible. Both happened.

Quoting cpqi (Reply 31):
Plane landed and hidden - I'm not ruling this out yet. I agree it must involve a conspiracy but it is possible

That would take an almost impossible conspiracy of James Bond proportions.

Quoting cpqi (Reply 31):
Cover-up - I will say something is being covered up.

Possible, but the Malaysians do not look very professional and as a group in front of the press not like the kind of coldblooded James Bond-people who are even remotely able to cover up something of these proportions.

Quoting cpqi (Reply 31):
Whether it is just information or something more sinister time will tell

The only thing I can see is being covered up are some details which would put MAS and Malaysia in very bad light.
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