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rotating14
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Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:44 pm

Good day.

http://mobile.businessweek.com/news/...s-wide-bodies-to-fly-beyond-brazil

Brazilian airline Azul plans on ordering both NB and WB models. I don't remember the last time a medium sized all NB airline decided to add new WB models to their fleet. How do you think this will turn out?
 
kaitak744
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:09 pm

This is very interesting. They could even be interested in the Terrible Teens off the 787 line.

If they want to get wide-body service up and running before the 2016 Olympics, they would be their only way to go.
 
Mortyman
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:14 pm

Quoting rotating14 (Thread starter):
I don't remember the last time a medium sized all NB airline decided to add new WB models to their fleet.

Norwegian ?
 
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scbriml
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:19 pm

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 1):
If they want to get wide-body service up and running before the 2016 Olympics, they would be their only way to go.

No, they could easily get A330s by then as well.   
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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MAH4546
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:32 pm

Azul has it's sights on flying to the U.S., and Brazil certainly has the market to handle a second, local long-haul carrier. While Gol does fly to the States, it is with 737s via Santo Domingo.
a.
 
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rotating14
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:05 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 2):

Correct. Skymark included.

I remember that Areoflot ordered the 77W for traffic to the 2014 Sochi Olympics. I'm curious how the load factors were for the time before and during the Olympics.
 
PDPsol
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:39 pm

Azul is reportedly evaluating the 787 "terrible teens", at a deep discount to full list price. Azul would likely launch service to key markets in the US, which would be very good for the market and, hopefully, present LATAM and AA with some real competition. While DL and UA also serve Brazil and GOL offers flights via SDQ, Azul would be a great addition.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:04 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
Azul has it's sights on flying to the U.S., and Brazil certainly has the market to handle a second, local long-haul carrier. While Gol does fly to the States, it is with 737s via Santo Domingo.

Does Azul have more than 1-class?

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 6):
Azul would likely launch service to key markets in the US, which would be very good for the market and, hopefully, present LATAM and AA with some real competition.

Are secondary airports (FLL/HOU) or smaller Brazil-US markets (BOS/SFO) in play or in will it be simply JFK and MIA to start?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
wrldtvlr
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:09 pm

I can see Neeleman tying US ops to B6 in FLL, JFK and BOS to start.
 
PDPsol
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:15 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 7):
Are secondary airports (FLL/HOU) or smaller Brazil-US markets (BOS/SFO) in play or in will it be simply JFK and MIA to start?

Very good question, I was wondering that myself...

MIA is the most important market for US-Brazil traffic and I wonder whether Azul would confront LATAM-JJ and AA directly on the route. There is also the issue of capacity at MIA and other major markets, such as JFK.

If Azul may be looking at holiday traffic to a market like MCO, or even FLL, but that may not be what Neeleman wants for the carrier. I would hope Azul is seeking to develop a real competitor to LATAM, AA, DL and UA and offer daily frequencies to big markets like MIA and/or JFK. We shall see...
 
flyby519
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:29 pm

Quoting wrldtvlr (Reply 8):

I can see Neeleman tying US ops to B6 in FLL, JFK and BOS to start.


I thought that relationship (Neeleman/jetblue leadership) had gone sour, to say it nicely. How likely would it be for the two companies to work together?
 
xiaotung
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:45 pm

Azul became a MileagePlus partner recently. Doesn't it give you any indication as to who they want to work with? There were also reports last year to link them to *A.
 
Iloveboeing
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:26 pm

Is David Neeleman personally strongly pro-Airbus or is he willing to order from Boeing if he gets a good deal? It seems that Azul ordered from Embraer originally to gain favor with the Brazilian regulators and people.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:56 pm

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 11):

QR was a MileagePlus partner once as well.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 10):
I thought that relationship (Neeleman/jetblue leadership) had gone sour, to say it nicely. How
likely would it be for the two companies to work together?

B6 would take the feed at JFK BOS or FLL without hesitation.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
flyby519
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:08 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 13):

I don't doubt that, but i was wondering if Neeleman would want to partner with B6
 
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s.p.a.s.
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:45 pm

Quote:
Does Azul have more than 1-class?

They do not offer a two class service per se, but on the Embraer fleet (not sure if also on the ATRs) they offer seats with more leg room and market it as "Espaço Azul" (Blue Space). My bet is that this new widebody will have a 2 class service, with 3 different seat arrangements, Biz class and Eco, the latter divided in Blue Space and regular spacing seats.

There were also rumours about getting second hand 767-300s as a stop gap measure while factory new 787s are not delivered.
"ad astra per aspera"
 
WillianBH
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:52 pm

Quoting s.p.a.s. (Reply 15):
not sure if also on the ATRs

The "Espaço Azul" is available on the Embraer fleet only, and it's about US$10 more expensive than the regular seats.
 
wrldtvlr
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:57 pm

Quoting iloveboeing (Reply 12):
Is David Neeleman personally strongly pro-Airbus or is he willing to order from Boeing if he gets a good deal?

Neeleman is a smart businessman, and will go with whoever gives him the best deal and has the right plane for the job. B6 went with Airbus over Boeing because at the time of start up Boeing didn't want to take a risk on a start up carrier, and didn't offer a compelling package on the 737. Big mistake I'm sure they're still kicking themselves over.
 
VC10er
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:00 pm

AZUL, is a great airline. I am sure they would put in something equal to or better than a typical 2x2 lie-flat seat. You could be sure it would at least look smart.

Azul could be the "real" VARIG replacement. The airline of BRAZIL.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
ASA
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:15 pm

Quoting wrldtvlr (Reply 8):

I can see Neeleman tying US ops to B6 in FLL, JFK and BOS to start.

  

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 10):
I thought that relationship (Neeleman/jetblue leadership) had gone sour, to say it nicely. How likely would it be for the two companies to work together?

The personal relationship may have gone sour, but for the business, why wouldn't AZUL benefit from B6 feed, if it can? And, vice versa. Also, Neeleman focused on JFK and BOS for a reason (lack of service at certain markets) - and he is likely to exploit the same holes now to grow his new airline.

But, will they start international service from GRU ... or their base at VCP?
 
744lover
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:18 am

Quoting ASA (Reply 19):
But, will they start international service from GRU ... or their base at VCP?


If those rumors are true, I'd bet 10 to 1 that they will start service to VCP. Currently all the "true" (non TRIP) feed crosses VCP and is where 90% of their operation is located.

Also, VCP is not congested like GRU and wouldn't have a problem receiving a new flight. Keep in mind that driving from VCP to SAO takes the same time as driving from GRU to SAO's business district (Morumbi, Berrini, CGH)


BR,
744lover
 
SCL767
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:50 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 3):
No, they could easily get A330s by then as well.  

AZUL may indeed be the next A330 operator in South America joining AR, AV, EQ, and JJ...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...airbus-group-idUSBREA3M01Q20140423
 
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seahawk
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:21 am

That is remarkable. Either Airbus is really discounting the A330 or the terrible Tens are really terrible.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:35 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 22):
Airbus is really discounting the A330 or the terrible Tens are really terrible.

Some of both and throw in a bit of Neeleman and Airbus having a good business relationship.   
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Part147
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:48 am

Or another logical way of looking at it... the A330 is an excellent aircraft and the terrible teens are too expensive!
It's better to ask a stupid question during training, rather than make a REALLY stupid mistake later on!
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:14 am

Quoting wrldtvlr (Reply 17):
Neeleman is a smart businessman, and will go with whoever gives him the best deal and has the right plane for the job. B6 went with Airbus over Boeing because at the time of start up Boeing didn't want to take a risk on a start up carrier, and didn't offer a compelling package on the 737. Big mistake I'm sure they're still kicking themselves over.

To expand on your post.. Neeleman was with WN before B6 and knew what WN paid boeing for their 737s... he wanted the same price for B6 and boeing refused... Boeing probably wished they were a wee bit flexiable with B6 at the time now
 
WillianBH
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:01 pm

 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:15 pm

Quoting WillianBH (Reply 26):
Looks like Airbus won this one....

Azul will acquire A350-900s and A330-200s. The A350s will serve routes to FLL and JFK.

http://instagram.com/p/nIhzHYG7ns/

[Edited 2014-04-23 06:52:45]
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:37 pm

6 A330-200 and 5 A350-900, the latter being leased from ILFC as per press release from Rolls Royce.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A343/346, A359, A380,AT4,AT7,B712, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3, B762/763,B772/77W,CR2/7/9/K,ER3/4,E70/75/90/95, F50/70/100,M11,L15,SF3,S20, AR8/1, 142/143,... 330.860 miles and counting.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:40 pm

Press release can be found here:

http://www.rolls-royce.com/news/pres...igns_engine_services_agreement.jsp

Quote:
Azul, formed in 2008, will operate six Airbus A330-200 and five Airbus A350-900 XWB aircraft powered by Trent 700 and Trent XWB engines respectively. The Airbus A350 aircraft will be leased from ILFC.


And another article can be found here:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-for-international-flights-398494/

All aircraft will be leased from ILFC. The A330s will arrive in 2015 while the A350s should arrive in 2017.

[Edited 2014-04-23 07:04:01]
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
flyby519
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:11 pm

Neeleman seized the opportunity that B6 couldn't make happen. Congrats to him.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:56 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:08 pm

This is Azul's own press release. in Portuguese first and scroll down for the English version.

http://www.voeazul.com.br/imprensa/r...cional&s_icid=_BANNER_HOME_1_inter
 
globalflyer
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:11 pm

I wonder which airlines and alliances will now race to court AD first?
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:12 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 27):
Azul will acquire A350-900s and A330-200s. The A350s will serve routes to FLL and JFK.

Sorry, but non of the releases I read mentions FLL and JFK, can you provide a link?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:16 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 34):
Sorry, but non of the releases I read mentions FLL and JFK, can you provide a link?

I saw it someone posting on Twitter, see http://twitter.com/RWMann/status/458958079879806977
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Italianflyer
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:23 pm

 
ASA
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:15 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 30):
Neeleman seized the opportunity that B6 couldn't make happen. Congrats to him.

  

There is no long haul carrier in Brazil other than LATAM ... and the US carriers are printing money. Neeleman saw the need for a new long haul and jumped in (just like he did for B6). I wish him a big success!!!

Now, let's hope he sees the gap and jumps on VCP-BOS before anyone else starts GRU-BOS ... maybe B6 will be happy to provide feed too!  
 
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prchan
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:33 pm

Who is the previous operator of those A330? They state the 3 class interior will be kept initially.

JJ maybe?
 
Italianflyer
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 33):
I wonder which airlines and alliances will now race to court AD first?

Starting JFK and FLL will fit nicely into B6's main hub and hub to be, respectively. Makes me wonder if BOS is in the cross-hairs as well.   
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:47 pm

Quoting prchan (Reply 38):
JJ maybe?

Can't be, JJ uses P&W and GE engines on their A330s. AD is going for Trents.
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
SCL767
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 37):
Now, let's hope he sees the gap and jumps on VCP-BOS before anyone else starts GRU-BOS

VCP-FLL, VCP-JFK, VCP-MCO:
http://g1.globo.com/sp/campinas-regi...mpinas-para-os-estados-unidos.html

Quoting prchan (Reply 38):
Who is the previous operator of those A330? They state the 3 class interior will be kept initially.

Perhaps EK...
 
AF086
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RE: Azul Mulls Boeing/Airbus Order

Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:54 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 41):
Perhaps EK...

Rumours in Brazil say the frames will come from EK
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