New AA 772 J Seat

VSlover · Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:55 pm

sneak peak is up on the AA instagram account: http://instagram.com/p/mdGpcjIx7H/

(also the old thread on this was archived and tried searching, please merge if i missed a related thread!)

abirda · Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:13 pm

This does appear to be a reverse-herringbone J seat that's different from the 77W's J seat. Looks like the seat controls are accomplished via a digital screen. Different tray table setup. Hard to tell from the pic, but it seems like the open-faced faux wood-lined storage cubby might be missing. Looking forward to seeing it in full, if that's what we're looking at in the first place.

MAH4546 · Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:47 pm

Quoting abirda (Reply 1):

This does appear to be a reverse-herringbone J seat

Only half the seats.

uberflieger · Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:47 pm

It sure is more of a sneak than a peek

. Still can't believe they won't use the 777-300 J seat.

MAH4546 · Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 3):

It sure is more of a sneak than a peek . Still can't believe they won't use the 777-300 J seat.

AA didn't even want to use that seat in the first place; but the 77W order was so quick it had no choice. The new seat is superior.

VSlover · Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:34 pm

that is what is most baffling--this idea of 1/2 the seats to be cirrus-like and 1/2 not so much.

abirda · Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:38 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 2):
Only half the seats.

Quoting VSLover (Reply 5):
that is what is most baffling--this idea of 1/2 the seats to be cirrus-like and 1/2 not so much.

I'm confused by these posts. Have I missed something? Are y'all referring to mixed types of seating within a single cabin? What has transpired to make you think that will be the case?

uberflieger · Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:15 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
The new seat is superior

I have not flown J on the 777-300, but buddies of mine have and they rave about it. They tell me the seat can compete with the best of the best.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was you reporting to us the delay with the reconfiguration was due to the "superior" J seat not being well received in focus groups?
So why not stick with what has been exceptionally well received? After all when purchasing a larger amount of the same product you're getting a discount and you limit the complexity of the operation by only having to stock parts for 1 type?
The most logical answer is money. I have a feeling the "superior" seat takes up less real estate, and I only hope you are right and it surpasses the comfort of the 777-300 J seat, which I will finally get a chance to experience myself at the end of the month

commavia · Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:30 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 7):
I have not flown J on the 777-300, but buddies of mine have and they rave about it. They tell me the seat can compete with the best of the best.

It can definitely compete on a global level - it is without a doubt one of the nicest J hard products I've ever experienced. Definitely way nicer than BA, United or Lufthansa, and while I know it's the same basic seat design as Cathay, I actually even prefer it to the Cathay configuration.

MAH4546 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:31 am

Quoting abirda (Reply 6):
I'm confused by these posts. Have I missed something? Are y'all referring to mixed types of seating within a single cabin? What has transpired to make you think that will be the case?

The single window seats will be different than the pair of middle seats.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 7):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was you reporting to us the delay with the reconfiguration was due to the "superior" J seat not being well received in focus groups?

Correct, which is why it was delayed. AA fixed the poorly received aspects of the seat, tested it again, and it has been well received.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 7):
I have a feeling the "superior" seat takes up less real estate, and I only hope you are right and it surpasses the comfort of the 777-300 J seat, which I will finally get a chance to experience myself at the end of the month

The new seat is roomier with more "living space" than the 77W seat (approximately 12 square feet compared to 10.5 square feet).

The new seat was designed from the ground-up by AA. If the logical answer was money, AA would have gone with the 77W seat, which would have had no development costs.

uberflieger · Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:36 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
The new seat is roomier with more "living space" than the 77W seat (approximately 12 square feet compared to 10.5 square feet)

AA has always excelled when they design a seat from the ground up. The 772 F seat is a great example. Despite looking tattered the features can still hold their own after that many years. Even the current business sliders are some of the best around.
Thanks for sharing a few 'sneaky' facts you've been holding out on us

abirda · Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:24 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
The single window seats will be different than the pair of middle seats.

Are you able to elaborate on what this accomplishes? I'm just not able to envision the benefit to having something different in the middle.

N62NA · Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:27 am

It does look quite nice (at least the part we can see). I'm looking forward to flying it if they hopefully keep a 772 on MIA-LAX-MIA.

N1120A · Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:13 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
AA didn't even want to use that seat in the first place; but the 77W order was so quick it had no choice. The new seat is superior.

Yeah, if its herringbone, I don't see how it is superior at all.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 7):
I have not flown J on the 777-300, but buddies of mine have and they rave about it. They tell me the seat can compete with the best of the best.

The AA 77W C seat is better than the UA F seat.

Independence76 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:30 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
AA didn't even want to use that seat in the first place; but the 77W order was so quick it had no choice. The new seat is superior.

Where did you get this information?

jetblue1965 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:35 am

Call me old school but I still prefer all forward facing designs, not so much the facing out / facing in ones like cirrus

I personally rate NH J nicer than CX J (only talking hard product) even though I've only flown the NH one once but the CX one about 5-6 times

Longhornmaniac · Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:45 pm

http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/ourPlanes/boeing-777-200-retrofit.jsp

Cheers,
Cameron

FoxBravo · Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:46 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 16):

Not many pictures, but it looks an awful lot like the 77W seat--which, to me at least, is a very good thing.

B6JFKH81 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:47 pm

I noticed a few things being posted on the AA LinkedIn account and was forwarded to this portion of the AA website that seems to discuss the retrofit in depth....quite a nice retrofit based on the description:

http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/ourPlanes/boeing-777-200-retrofit.jsp

Edit.....ooops, just noticed someone posted this before me. Sorry for the duplicate post

[Edited 2014-04-07 06:55:37]

[Edited 2014-04-07 06:55:56]

jetblue1965 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:52 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 16):
http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/ourPlanes/boeing-777-200-retrofit.jsp

Cheers,
Cameron

So half the seats are rear-facing ? How is that an improvement? I thought the BA/UA backward seats have been ridiculed enough.

Not only they're backwards, but they face INTO the aisle - another con of older herringbone configs

[Edited 2014-04-07 07:00:53]

FoxBravo · Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:18 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 19):
So half the seats are rear-facing ? How is that an improvement? I thought the BA/UA backward seats have been ridiculed enough.

Not only they're backwards, but they face INTO the aisle - another con of older herringbone configs

Oh, I totally missed that bit. And I see it now, in the pictures. Very interesting. I assume it allows for a wider seat, similar to how BA's seats work.

Personally, having flown many times on BA's rear-facing seats, and on UA's once, I have absolutely no problem with them. In BA's case at least, it's a clever way to maximize shoulder space as well as the number of seats.

carnivalair · Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:23 pm

American keeps posting on the FB thread to stay tuned for today's announcement regarding enhancements to the main cabin. Does anyone have information of what this will entail??

[Edited 2014-04-07 07:27:32]

aa1818 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:28 pm

The fact that seats face rear doesn't bother me- BA's stepping over your neighbour, being trapped in the middle two J-class seats is what bothers me.

If AA has gone rear facing with all-aisle access, then kudos to them.
Does this allow them to maximize the space in the 772ER? I would have thought it might have just made sense to use the exact same J-class seat as the 77Ws!

AA1818

TreeHillRavens · Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:35 pm

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 20):
I assume it allows for a wider seat, similar to how BA's seats work.

Or they can squeeze in more seats in such configuration. Anyway, it still looks very good IMO.

FoxBravo · Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:39 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 22):

If AA has gone rear facing with all-aisle access, then kudos to them.
Does this allow them to maximize the space in the 772ER? I would have thought it might have just made sense to use the exact same J-class seat as the 77Ws!

They're not all rear-facing. The rows alternate forward and rear-facing. In theory this maximizes space per passenger because people need more room at the shoulders than at the feet. When seats face in the same direction, there is often wasted space around the feet. But by nesting forward and rear facing seats against each other (like BA), one person's shoulders are taking some space from the other person's feet, giving a more spacious feel for each person.

Of course the other solution to this is like DL's (and now AA's) 767 seats, where the seats are offset laterally. But on wider aircraft like the 777 not everyone would have direct aisle access, making this design less desirable.

Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 23):
Or they can squeeze in more seats in such configuration. Anyway, it still looks very good IMO.

Well yes--this is the other side of the same coin. They are running a business after all!

[Edited 2014-04-07 07:40:13]

Edited again to add: AA just posted another photo, showing a better overview of how the forward/rear facing seats work, on Facebook: https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t31.0-8/1960981_10151979921101078_1270922730_o.jpg

[Edited 2014-04-07 07:42:24]

[Edited 2014-04-07 07:43:08]

jetblue1965 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:41 pm

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 24):
Of course the other solution to this is like DL's (and now AA's) 767 seats, where the seats are offset laterally. But on wider aircraft like the 777 not everyone would have direct aisle access, making this design less desirable.

Asiana QS suite on their 77Es offer lateral offset, all forward facing, and all aisle access (but probably a bit inefficient use of space)

I think EY has a similar product to OZ.

jayunited · Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:54 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 19):
So half the seats are rear-facing ? How is that an improvement? I thought the BA/UA backward seats have been ridiculed enough.

Not only they're backwards, but they face INTO the aisle - another con of older herringbone configs

UA is ridiculed because you have 4 seats together and although the UA seats are comfortable why would UA place 4 seats together its like flying in business class/coach. There is no question that UA made a mistake with the layout of their business class cabins. From the pictures I think AA is taking the smart and right approach by first of all making sure they have the right amount of business class seats on the aircraft then secondly finding a way to give all passengers in business class direct access to the isle. There is nothing wrong with rear facing business class seating there is something wrong when in todays market business class passengers still have to climb over another person just to get to the isle.
I'm sorry but AA wins this one not only with the product they have on the 77W but also from the looks of things their retrofitted 772er's will be a hit in business class as well. UA is going to have to come up with something way better than the product we currently have and that includes the sCO BF seat as well because the new AA has just set the bar very high.

avek00 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:59 pm

Step by step, USA legacies are becoming The Cool Kids for longhaul yet again, with American positioning itself among the Top Ten in Business Class, and Delta leading the charge in Economy.

FoxBravo · Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:06 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 27):
Step by step, USA legacies are becoming The Cool Kids for longhaul yet again, with American positioning itself among the Top Ten in Business Class, and Delta leading the charge in Economy.

It's pretty remarkable, isn't it? Just a few years ago it would have been hard to imagine that I'd find myself choosing AA or DL over BA or AF, but based on hard product I certainly would now. Soft product can still be hit or miss, but on long-haul overnight flights, what I and many other business travelers care about most is a flat seat with direct aisle access, so kudos to the US legacies for figuring that out.

hoons90 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:20 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 27):
Step by step, USA legacies are becoming The Cool Kids for longhaul yet again, with American positioning itself among the Top Ten in Business Class, and Delta leading the charge in Economy.

American Airlines will certainly be a force to reckoned with. Top notch premium cabins and continued excellent loyalty recognition are things that frequent fliers strongly take into consideration, and with brand new products on the 321T and 777, I think it shows that AA is truly in a renaissance period right now.

Kudos

jetblue1965 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:26 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 27):
Step by step, USA legacies are becoming The Cool Kids for longhaul yet again, with American positioning itself among the Top Ten in Business Class

Hard product, maybe. Including the soft product, how to imagine any Americas carrier (North or South) can crack into Top 10.

Case in point : PMUS, and some planes on DL have already used the exact same seats as CX but their J ranking are drastically different from CX.

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 28):
Just a few years ago it would have been hard to imagine that I'd find myself choosing AA or DL over BA or AF, but based on hard product I certainly would now.

New AF J seat is nearly identical to CX/US/AA/DL seat.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 26):
UA is going to have to come up with something way better than the product we currently have and that includes the sCO BF seat as well because the new AA has just set the bar very high.

I think PMCO's product trades all-aisle access for much higher density, but I'd imagine UA will probably launch a new product to coincide with A350-1000 arrival.

FoxBravo · Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:36 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 30):
New AF J seat is nearly identical to CX/US/AA/DL seat.

Yes, and when it's in service on every flight (or at least the one I'm booking) I might very well go back to choosing AF over DL, but it's going to be quite a while before it's fully rolled out.

AA777223 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:58 pm

I am a former AA, now UA flyer. I usually fly up front, at least internationally.

I have to hand it to AA with this roll out. I tlloks very nice to me. My only slight complaint, and it is a minor grip, is that it looks a little tough to see out of the window. This looks like it depends on whether you're facing frontward or rearwards, as one direction looks to have the seat closer to the window, the other, the feet. As an avgeek, it's nice to be able to ogle a bit. Really a small complaint, but thought I'd mention it anyway.

Either way, congrats to my old friends at AA. Looks like a winner here.

avek00 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:16 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 30):
Hard product, maybe. Including the soft product, how to imagine any Americas carrier (North or South) can crack into Top 10.

I disagree with respect to Business Class. AA has greatly improved the catering and other soft product touches in recent times...the only real shortcoming is on the lounge offerings, which are weaker than that of many foreign peers.

abirda · Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:19 pm

Really impressed by this. It's the sort of leap AA should have made when they did the NGBC angled lie-flats back in the mid-2000s.

I'm assuming that, despite earlier prognostications, the seats are the same as this between the two aisles. Looks like a great configuration. Wonder who the manufacturer is.

Edited to add that I'm now praying they take less than five years to retrofit the fleet!

[Edited 2014-04-07 09:20:12]

N62NA · Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:25 pm

Quoting abirda (Reply 34):
I'm now praying they take less than five years to retrofit the fleet!

Me too! Fleet upgrades at AA seem to take forever, though maybe with the new management, they will turn it around by the end of 2015.

jetblue1965 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:21 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 33):

I disagree with respect to Business Class. AA has greatly improved the catering and other soft product touches in recent times...the only real shortcoming is on the lounge offerings, which are weaker than that of many foreign peers.

Just off the top of my head I can already list these as better in J than any carrier in the Americas :

VA QF NZ
EK EY QR TK
CX SQ
OZ KE NH JL (some planes)
LX VS

Unless "all aisle access" is must-have requirement in one's book, it's hard to imagine ranking AA or DL higher than any of those in the list.

Also, SQ's new 77W J product has 18" PTV, which I believe is the largest one out there for J.

TreeHillRavens · Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:47 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 36):
Also, SQ's new 77W J product has 18" PTV, which I believe is the largest one out there for J.

Actually, EK has the largest screen for J out there (20").

oc2dc · Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:08 pm

This product looks nice, but the one thing that is devastating to me is the alternating rear/forward facing seats.

At the window seat there is a double negative for facing the rear. One, you are facing the rear and two, you are facing the aisle. Both of these factors mean a poor window viewing experience. For an AV geek like most of us, this is troubling. . . Facing the rear is like being on a train, and I often get sick when I face the rear on a train. I hope this doesn't create the same experience for me. . . . . .

Negative factors aside (and assuming i'm sitting in a forward facing window seat), this product will be an extraordinary improvement over the current product and will most definitely be a superior product to the current BA J. I'm very happy the product gap between the 2 JBV partners has been closed and they now offer some of the nicest products across the Atlantic.

FoxBravo · Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:23 pm

Is it confirmed that the rear facing window seats are the ones facing the aisle? In the pictures it looked like it might be the opposite (i.e., forward facing towards the aisle and rear facing towards the window). Hard to tell though.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 38):
Facing the rear is like being on a train, and I often get sick when I face the rear on a train. I hope this doesn't create the same experience for me. . . . . .

For what it's worth I have, on occasion, felt mildly ill when facing backwards on trains, but I have never had the slightest problem facing the rear on many BA transatlantic flights. It feels a bit "different" on takeoff and landing, but otherwise it's hard to even tell which way you're facing (and I actually like it better for sleeping, as others have noted, as your head is elevated due to the slight nose-up pitch of the aircraft). YMMV though...

VSlover · Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:49 pm

agreed. i get sick on trains 80% of the time backwards.

on planes though, you dont have that continual forward-movement motion that makes me ill, nor anything passing by on the periphery of vision like on cars/trains.

just clouds and unicorns.

GSPSPOT · Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 29):
I think it shows that AA is truly in a renaissance period right now.

Indeed. And don't forget the terminal redos at AA's fortress hub at DFW. The completed sections truly feel like you're in a whole new airport!

ldvaviation · Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:09 pm

The details are exceptional...

From the pattern on the vents that mirrors the pattern on the ceiling over the bar to the tweed-like veneer on the outside of the seat. (The controls box trimmed in aluminum with the seat controls attached like a winglet is very streamline cool.)

The overall shape of the seat is reminiscent as well of the BA first seat. (Never thought a US carrier would ever match BA's design excellence.)

It is really the details that are starting to set AA apart from the "boring blue" of its US peers. (I assume that JPA Design helped AA with this one as well.)

Flighty · Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:27 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 35):
Me too! Fleet upgrades at AA seem to take forever, though maybe with the new management, they will turn it around by the end of 2015.

Probably because AA was penny wise (pound foolish?) and has huge, huge fleets. Upgrading a 757 is a major project. 100 of them? Might take 6 years.

The new financial strength of AA and DL enable them to deliver top notch cabin / club experiences. Across bigger networks than say, KE or SQ. That takes a ton of money. And they now have a ton of money to deliver the things customers want.

oc2dc · Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:01 pm

Quoting VSLover (Reply 40):
on planes though, you dont have that continual forward-movement motion that makes me ill, nor anything passing by on the periphery of vision like on cars/trains.

just clouds and unicorns.

Great point about the forward movement and periphery of vision. I suppose this would only be an issue for the first few minutes of takeoff and the final stages of landing.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 41):
Indeed. And don't forget the terminal redos at AA's fortress hub at DFW. The completed sections truly feel like you're in a whole new airport!

I genuinely believed at one point that the only way to make terminals A and C look nice was to completely demolish them and start over....But AA and DFW have proved me wrong. The new gates are simply tremendous. Very airy and bright. It really creates a whole new experience... And now that the planes at AA are getting upgrades, the AA experience will be leaps and bounds above the competition.

FoxBravo · Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:33 pm

Quoting VSLover (Reply 40):
just clouds and unicorns.

LOL. And bacon rolls, if you're on BA.

jetblue1965 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:34 pm

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 39):
Is it confirmed that the rear facing window seats are the ones facing the aisle? In the pictures it looked like it might be the opposite (i.e., forward facing towards the aisle and rear facing towards the window). Hard to tell though.

Pretty sure it's rear-facing also getting the aisle facing ... and we haven't seen a picture of how the center seats are configured. Maybe it's reversed there (front face aisle and rear face in) ?

VSlover · Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:48 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 46):
Pretty sure it's rear-facing also getting the aisle facing ... and we haven't seen a picture of how the center seats are configured. Maybe it's reversed there (front face aisle and rear face in) ?

dont think so based on the single image of the bar-area that AA posted on its website. it seems the head of the forward facing seat is on the aisle and the rear would face out to aisle. but i am still baffled on how a single pair of these seats can occupy the whole center section.

klkla · Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:22 am

The materials used look really nice but to be honest those seats are going to be awkward having to face the other passenger at such a close distance.

I understand they were probably able to save an inch or two by setting it up this way but the seats they put in the 777-300ER seem like a better choice.

starguy · Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:09 am

Quoting VSLover (Reply 47):

Referring to the photo on the AA website showing the galley/bar cross aisle, the first seat in view is a rear facing seat, the headrest is in the aisle so the forward facing seats must face into the aisle. The door in view is on aircraft left and the camera is facing forward.

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