Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 24817
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:59 pm

AA president Scott Kirby says the carrier seeks to make LAX its "primary Asia-Pacific gateway".

Currently LAX is the carriers 3rd largest gateway to the region behind DFW and ORD and the company was "figuring out" how to refocus network towards LAX instead. However issues like facilities, and broader network feed and connectivity will need to be worked out first as overall growth at LAX had limitations.

While other West Coast carrier hubs like SFO and SEA might have geographic advantages, AA sees the fact that LAX is the much larger market as a big benefit and opportunity to take advantage of.

Story: (subscription required)
http://dashboard.flightglobal.com/app/#/atricles/397909

=


While I guess no surprise, I think growing international flying out of LAX wont be without challenges for AA, not the least being the very strong presence and large capacity that foreign carriers have and that someone like United is unlikely to easily yield traffic to AA either.
Also the issue of facilities, and fact that the overall operation cant grow too much more does present challenges to how AA manages to links a Pacific gateway to the many interior cities where folks will come from.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
chicawgo
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:07 pm

All UA has been doing IS yielding traffic. That won't be a hurdle.
 
AA7295
Posts: 464
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:19 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:24 pm

If they have flights leaving TBIT instead of T4, I see this working, otherwise this is a bad idea. T4 is an atrocious terminal.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:27 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
AA president Scott Kirby says the carrier seeks to make LAX its "primary Asia-Pacific gateway".

Let's look at their options (assuming they don't like stepping into partner's territory) :

SYD - QF
BNE - QF
MEL - QF
HKG - CX
NRT - JL/AA
PVG - AA

The ones left would be AKL, KIX, PEK, ICN, and TPE. Judging from the competition and market potential, I only see AKL first and PEK a distant second (but DFW-PEK will probably appear before LAX-PEK is a reality).

Maybe they would totally surprise people and do NGO / CAN / PPT, but I really don't see any of those anytime soon, if ever.
 
G500
Posts: 1269
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:45 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:29 pm

Does this mean American will finally launch LAX-HKG?

That route should come first
 
mhkansan
Posts: 874
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:02 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:30 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 3):
Maybe they would totally surprise people and do NGO / CAN / PPT, but I really don't see any of those anytime soon, if ever.

AA has a lot of military traffic. Everybody does, but it seems like AA carries an inordinate amount. Maybe we could see an NGO route?

I think what AA is really waiting for is the right equipment. AA has 788s and 789s on the way and a denser 77E coming. About 30 767s are staying which will be good for South America and some of the uncontested European routes.

Taking my first trip to Asia, on AA, in June, and I'm very excited!
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 24817
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:34 pm

As far as top international O&D markets from LAX here is the top 20. Might give a few ideas.

1. Seoul
2. London
3. Guadalajara
4. Tokyo
5. Vancouver
6. Mexico City
7. Toronto
8. Taipei
9. Manila
10. Paris
11. Sydney
12. San Jose del Cabo
13. Shanghai
14. Hong Kong
15. Cancun
16. Beijing
17. Melbourne
18. Ho Chi Minh
19. Calgary
20. San Salvador

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:43 pm

This is old news and was announced back in January during their Q4 earnings announcement. Kirby also stated LAX was currently profitable for the carrier.

http://edge.media-server.com/m/p/988iqwmb/lan/en

[Edited 2014-04-07 10:47:11]
 
D L X
Posts: 12680
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:59 pm

That's kind of too bad for us east coasters. LAX is out of the way if you're going to Asia. For instance, DC-Chicago-Tokyo is about 900 miles shorter than DC-LAX-Tokyo.
 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Posts: 1987
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:19 pm

Ahead of the 787s arriving, do the US A332s allow AA to open up any routes that a 772 might be too large for?
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8513
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:20 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 3):
Let's look at their options (assuming they don't like stepping into partner's territory) :

SYD - QF
BNE - QF
MEL - QF
HKG - CX
NRT - JL/AA
PVG - AA

The ones left would be AKL, KIX, PEK, ICN, and TPE. Judging from the competition and market potential, I only see AKL first and PEK a distant second (but DFW-PEK will probably appear before LAX-PEK is a reality).

I don't expect, longer term, that AA will let partners have 100% of the operating traffic on the high demand routes - anything in LAXintl's top 10.
 
Italianflyer
Posts: 689
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:06 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:28 pm

I guess this is the 'least worst' option for them since SFO and SEA are spoken for and large scale PHX-Asia are a non-starter. Their OW partners are there and they have a footprint in the market The only question mark in my mind is how to make the airside ops work.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2342
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:28 pm

Hopefully we will see LAX-AKL. It would be nice for a greater OW presence in New Zealand.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
realsim
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:19 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:58 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 9):
Ahead of the 787s arriving, do the US A332s allow AA to open up any routes that a 772 might be too large for?

In terms of total capacity, doubtful, given that the new reconfigured 772s will have almost the same number of seats than the US 332s (260 vs. 258). There will be an opportunity, however, in routes with less premium demand, as the 772 will have 45 J seats while the 332 has 28.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4891
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:02 pm

I think its realization the ORD and DFW are rather useless as Pacific gateways for half of America. I recall reading that California alone produce something like 50% of mainland US demand to/from Asia Pacific region so its makes sense to create primary focus in California.

However LAX is a very well served market so competition especially from all the foreign carriers will be strong for AA.
mercure f-wtcc
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26287
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
That's kind of too bad for us east coasters. LAX is out of the way if you're going to Asia. For instance, DC-Chicago-Tokyo is about 900 miles shorter than DC-LAX-Tokyo.

But AA will continue to serve these markets from Chicago and Dallas; not to mention PHL-NRT is inevitable to connect the Northeast.
a.
 
User avatar
jetblastdubai
Posts: 1980
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:10 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
DC-Chicago-Tokyo is about 900 miles shorter than DC-LAX-Tokyo.

The United IAD-NRT non-stop is 130 miles shorter yet...with no connection. Easily a 2-hour savings in total trip time.
 
D L X
Posts: 12680
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:17 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 16):

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
DC-Chicago-Tokyo is about 900 miles shorter than DC-LAX-Tokyo.

The United IAD-NRT non-stop is 130 miles shorter yet...with no connection. Easily a 2-hour savings in total trip time.

Yeah, but then I'd have to go to Dulles.   
Actually, it's more than just a joke for me. DCA is the winner for me personally because I live a mile from it, and I'm a oneworld elite. Going to Dulles requires a 60 minute drive, a 20 minute walk from the car to the security point, and a 10 minute train from the security point to the gate. Leaving from DCA is almost always going to be faster for me, even with a connection.
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1226
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:09 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:35 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
I think what AA is really waiting for is the right equipment. AA has 788s and 789s on the way and a denser 77E coming. About 30 767s are staying which will be good for South America and some of the uncontested European routes.

Taking my first trip to Asia, on AA, in June, and I'm very excited!

I completely agree. It appears AA is waiting to enhance its international offering with new 788/789s, additional 77W, plus upgraded 767-323ER and the fantastic upgrade they have for the 77E.

Asia is a market AA does not dominate, relative to UA and DL. Unlike Latin America, where AA can count on LATAM as its regional partner and control massive market share, or even TATL with IAG, Asia is still "in development".

BTW, I am flying LAX-PVG in J next month and am looking forward to it! I know we will not have the gorgeous new 77E cabin, but will be interesting...
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2232
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:48 pm

Quoting chicawgo (Reply 1):
All UA has been doing IS yielding traffic. That won't be a hurdle.

Should be a fun fight for us to watch!

As much as I've criticized UA for how they are run, one of the smart things they are doing is switching to either new a/c (788) or recently refurbished a/c (772) for their international flights. These a/c are best equipped to compete with the other carriers out of LAX.

To answer the quote above, yes they are yielding traffic but its bottom-of-the-barrel fares that don't add much to the bottom line. By switching away from the 744s, UA has cut fuel costs (alot) and improved their hard product in Y (a lot) to better compete.

With AA and UA taking on a large number of 787s, LAX should see some great options for travel. Its even better considering the robust international airline presence.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:49 pm

It's pretty obvious that this is the way the chips would fall, with UA at SFO, DL at SEA, and AA at LAX. Nonetheless, LAX is the toughest because of its location, it's low fares and % premium traffic, and loads of competition.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2435
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:49 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 14):

I think its realization the ORD and DFW are rather useless as Pacific gateways for half of America. I recall reading that California alone produce something like 50% of mainland US demand to/from Asia Pacific region so its makes sense to create primary focus in California.

I see it more so as AA realizing they can diversify the network even more and amply compete for US-Asia traffic from multiple gateway hubs. United post-merger has several hubs with nonstop service to non-Japan markets (ORD, EWR, IAD, SFO, LAX) so why can't American also take the same approach?
 
oc2dc
Posts: 469
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:38 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:52 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 3):
The ones left would be AKL, KIX, PEK, ICN, and TPE. Judging from the competition and market potential, I only see AKL first and PEK a distant second (but DFW-PEK will probably appear before LAX-PEK is a reality).

Maybe they would totally surprise people and do NGO / CAN / PPT, but I really don't see any of those anytime soon, if ever.

AKL seems like a very logical add, especially with the 788 coming at the end of this year. I think this would be the perfect aircraft and the JBV with QF will help this route flourish.

KIX has 0 competition, but if they are trying to leverage the JL JBV they will only have about 4 logical connections, if that. I'm not sure how strong JL is in KIX, but if they have a nice group of oneworld FF's there, this might work.

PEK is interesting. Only CA is on the route and I believe they just added more frequency. I suppose that is a good sign that the route is doing well. Also, considering it is on the top 20 O&D list, it may work....but at what yield?

ICN and TPE have a large amount of foreign competition. I'm not sure how AA would go up against carriers like KE and OZ.

CAN has CZ, and from what I understand, their A380's are rarely full up front and they always have this flight on sale for a very low price. I don't think AA wants to pick up those junk fares.

As far as facilities for growth at LAX, I genuinely think they will be fine as soon as they get the gates at TBIT. realistically they will only be adding up to 5 international cities. If they launch flights at different times of the day (read late night departure for a hypothetical TPE flight) they will be able to maximize the use of the TBIT gates.

My question is about "broader network feed and connectivity." What are they thinking about adding to feed these flights? The massive MQ expansion in 2010 and the recent adds in the last year seem to be just fine. I'm not sure what other markets they would need to tap into from LAX in order to feed these Asia flights. Maybe SAT, MCI, COS? Not sure how much these would contribute to the flights....
I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2540
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:02 pm

Well its about time AA define LAX's role as the Pacific gateway. I only hope that filling the holes of SYD, HKG, and PEK are in serious consideration. With lower costs, reconfigured 772's and 787s on the way, AA will be better positioned to match metal to demand.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 3):
Let's look at their options (assuming they don't like stepping into partner's territory) :

SYD - QF

I would think the goal of LAX-SYD is not to take traffic from QF, but to take traffic from UA, VA, and DL.

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
Does this mean American will finally launch LAX-HKG?

   I hope this happens.

Many of the supposed experts on here balked at the idea of AA starting LAX-HKG with CX operating 3x, citing too little traffic. Then low and behold CX decides to increase their frequency to 4x. That tells me there was room for AA afterall.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2716
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:09 pm

Quoting aa7295 (Reply 2):
If they have flights leaving TBIT instead of T4, I see this working, otherwise this is a bad idea. T4 is an atrocious terminal.

I don't know about all that. There's two problems I see here.

1st, connecting from any domestic terminal to TBIT is never a picknick. I'll take an hour & a half in a crapped out terminal over getting rescreened after a long walk outside with my carryons & checked bags in tow.

2nd, I really don't like seeing domestics taking up space at the new TBIT that could be used to open up more capacity for Int'l Airlines that A. aren't already serving AA destinations, and B. don't have AA's product issues.

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
Does this mean American will finally launch LAX-HKG?

That route should come first

I can live without it. CX does well enough here with their flights, OW feed being what it is. Though AA would introduce just a small amount of pricing pressure here, I'd be concerned by CX reducing capacity or even just not growing it as a result of this.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26287
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:11 pm

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 24):

1st, connecting from any domestic terminal to TBIT is never a picknick. I'll take an hour & a half in a crapped out terminal over getting rescreened after a long walk outside with my carryons & checked bags in tow.

TBIT and T4 will be connected airside in 2016. In fact, all of AA's international ops will be moving to TBIT in 2016.
a.
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Posts: 10117
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:18 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 9):
US A332s allow AA to open up any routes that a 772 might be too large for?

Before QF axed AKL-LAX, it was operated by an A332 but was weight restricted as the flight was pushing the range limit. Yes it can be done with an A330 but it comes with weight restrictions
Head Forum Moderator
[email protected]
Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
User avatar
ua900
Moderator
Posts: 1607
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:14 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:23 pm

Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 19):
Should be a fun fight for us to watch!

As much as I've criticized UA for how they are run, one of the smart things they are doing is switching to either new a/c (788) or recently refurbished a/c (772) for their international flights. These a/c are best equipped to compete with the other carriers out of LAX.

To answer the quote above, yes they are yielding traffic but its bottom-of-the-barrel fares that don't add much to the bottom line. By switching away from the 744s, UA has cut fuel costs (alot) and improved their hard product in Y (a lot) to better compete.

With AA and UA taking on a large number of 787s, LAX should see some great options for travel. Its even better considering the robust international airline presence.

AA is better positioned to compete from LAX than out of other West Coast hubs. UA only owns a third of the traffic here, not two thirds like at SFO. oneWorld also has a decent footprint at LAX. As AA continues to improve their hard and soft product, I think we'll see them gain an edge over UA.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
It's pretty obvious that this is the way the chips would fall, with UA at SFO, DL at SEA, and AA at LAX. Nonetheless, LAX is the toughest because of its location, it's low fares and % premium traffic, and loads of competition.

The lack of investment in LAX over SFO on the part of UA invites someone like AA to fill the gap. AA facilities at LAX are not as nice as TBIT, but better than UAs at T7. LAX is an excellent opportunity for AA to obtain a larger market share from DL and UA. The real challenge will be competing with int'l carriers since TBIT is super nice and the foreign carriers tend to be on their A game at LAX. Congrats to AA for elevating the status of LAX in their network.
2020: AMS | BRU | DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | GUA | IAH | LAX | LIM | MCO | MUC | ORD | PTY | SAL | SCL | SFO | TXL
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 24817
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:28 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 25):
all of AA's international ops will be moving to TBIT in 2016.

All arrivals are at TBIT already due closure of T-4 FIS.

Quoting Ua900 (Reply 27):
The lack of investment in LAX over SFO on the part of UA invites someone like AA to fill the gap. AA facilities at LAX are not as nice as TBIT, but better than UAs at T7.

United late last year gained approval to proceed with its proposed $413mil upgrade of its facilities in T6-7-8. So what you see today, will be different come 2015 onwards.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6194
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:28 pm

I love the idea of it, I question the application. What markets can they realistically add and make stick?

NGO and KIX seem like good adds. I dont see them adding HKG. PEK might be a good one.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
jayunited
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:34 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
While other West Coast carrier hubs like SFO and SEA might have geographic advantages, AA sees the fact that LAX is the much larger market as a big benefit and opportunity to take advantage of.

LAX has always had the bigger market so Scott Kirby lets be honest the only reason why AA is making LAX their Pacific gateway is because it is the only option they have. Neither UA nor DL is going to let AA build a Pacific gateway at SFO or SEA and DFW can serve as a backup to a West Coast gateway but DFW can not be the main Pacific gateway because it forces AA's customers on the West to to back track.

While AA is saying there is a big benefit to making LAX their Pacific gateway I don't think the international carriers will just lay down and allow AA to come in and take over. AA is going to have a fight on their hands when it come to LAX. I don't even think CX would yield one of their nonstop flights to HKG so AA could start LAX-HKG.

And what about the yields? Its has been posted on this website and others many times that the yields on many international flights out of LAX to Asia are terrible. How will AA raise the yields when their main competition will be international carriers?

There is a reason why DL chose SEA over LAX as their Pacific gateway international carriers at LAX have built up their loyal customer base and they have had years to do so. AA is not just going to come in and steal those passengers away from those international carriers. IMO DL made the right choice choosing SEA while AA has to take the only option left; LAX.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:38 pm

I do admit to be a bit behind the LAX curve, but how does AA plan to go up against UA? Isn't DL also trying to build up LAX, or are they not trying to make LAX a TPAC gateway?
 
747megatop
Posts: 1785
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:22 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:39 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
Does this mean American will finally launch LAX-HKG?

That route should come first

Won't it be overkill with 4 daily CX frequencies? Unless, CX does 3 and leaves the 4th one to AA. Unless of course there is room for 5 frequencies on this route.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2559
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:43 pm

Am I the only one here reading into this as a first shot across the bow for PHX being downsized to build up LAX?
 
ORDJOE
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:27 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:49 pm

Not trying to be a total arm chair ceo, but lets look at the facts, just about every asia carrier that goes to the US has a prescence at LAX if not multiple frequencies a day. UA has been having a tough time with TPAC routes out of LAX. They cut HKG, down gauged NRT and PVG. On top of that DL has a big presence. What does AA have up their sleeve that all these carriers do not? LAX-Asia is just a heavily served market, unless they are forcasting a lot of growth on these routes I would think they are just entering a saturated playing field.

I would think they might want to look at areas like DFW, PHL or perhaps MIA where they can be a dominant asian carrier. Best of luck to this stratedgy.
 
boilerla
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:30 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:53 pm

Quoting chicawgo (Reply 1):
All UA has been doing IS yielding traffic. That won't be a hurdle.

To my knowledge UA hasn't lately cut any APAC routes that were direct. They have cut tags, but those are usually unprofitable. They've actually added several APAC routes in the past couple of months with CTU and MEL (replacing a tag). They also put much better equipment on the routes; the 772 replacing the 744 on the kangaroo routes are a big win for customers, and the 788 on LAX-PVG and LAX-NRT is a big win for UA, with better yields and CASM than the 772 they replaced.

UA won't give up routes out of LAX easily, as evidenced by the LAX-PVG bloodbath that is going on right now--last summer it was cheaper to fly to PVG than it was to fly to the east coast some days. I doubt anybody is making money there, but at least UA is bleeding less with the better equipment on the routes. But add in the foreign carriers on the other routes and AA has its work cut out for them.

[Edited 2014-04-07 13:58:27]
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26287
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:57 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 31):
I do admit to be a bit behind the LAX curve, but how does AA plan to go up against UA?

AA is LAX's largest airline. They already go up against UA just fine.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 30):
LAX has always had the bigger market so Scott Kirby lets be honest the only reason why AA is making LAX their Pacific gateway is because it is the only option they have. Neither UA nor DL is going to let AA build a Pacific gateway at SFO or SEA

You make it sound like AA wants to hub at SEA or SFO. It doesn't.

Quoting Ua900 (Reply 27):
The real challenge will be competing with int'l carriers since TBIT is super nice and the foreign carriers tend to be on their A game at LAX. Congrats to AA for elevating the status of LAX in their network.

All AA international ops will use TBIT by 2016. AA will probably be TBIT's largest user.
a.
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5734
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:00 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 33):


Am I the only one here reading into this as a first shot across the bow for PHX being downsized to build up LAX?

There's still the real estate problem at LAX and I don't think anyone has suggested PHX will be AA's Asian Gateway, save maybe an NRT in the future.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:03 pm

Quoting Ua900 (Reply 27):
The lack of investment in LAX over SFO on the part of UA invites someone like AA to fill the gap

If it took a nice building, AA would be printing money at JFK and DL at BOS.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
kaitak744
Posts: 2225
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:04 pm

I can see the 787 opening up many LAX-Asia routes

LAX-KIX 787-8
LAX-ICN 787-9
LAX-HKG 787-9
LAX-TPE-SIN 787-8 or 787-9

Other than HKG, the routes above have no OneWorld options, other than onward connections on Cathay or JAL.

What could also work is LAX-PUS on a 787-8
 
User avatar
psa1011
Posts: 495
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:37 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:09 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 30):
There is a reason why DL chose SEA over LAX as their Pacific gateway international carriers at LAX have built up their loyal customer base and they have had years to do so. AA is not just going to come in and steal those passengers away from those international carriers. IMO DL made the right choice choosing SEA while AA has to take the only option left; LAX.

What about SJC
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:17 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 30):
I don't even think CX would yield one of their nonstop flights to HKG so AA could start LAX-HKG

  
The relationship with Cathay will be interesting to watch. CX has definitely been calling the shots and have profited nicely from AA ceding the market. Parker will be asking for a larger piece of the pie, no doubt, and I don't think it is unreasonable for them to be wanting to operate one LAX-HKG with their own metal.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:24 pm

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 39):

LAX-KIX 787-8

It's quite impressive (and ridiculous) that the 2nd largest metro in US and 2nd largest metro in Japan don't have any scheduled service today.

KIX is real outlier scenario - huge population, high incomes - and yet can only sustain daily to SFO and 3x weekly to JFK. TYO/ICN stole all the traffic.

AA can test the waters with the PMUS 332.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 22):
As far as facilities for growth at LAX, I genuinely think they will be fine as soon as they get the gates at TBIT. realistically they will only be adding up to 5 international cities. If they launch flights at different times of the day (read late night departure for a hypothetical TPE flight) they will be able to maximize the use of the TBIT gates.

Here lies the main problem. Most TPAC flights depart/arrive around 2 narrow blocks of time due to time zone issues. Trying to maximize gate utilization by spreading out the flights will lead to some rather awkward and unpopular times.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26287
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 41):
Quoting jayunited (Reply 30):I don't even think CX would yield one of their nonstop flights to HKG so AA could start LAX-HKG

The relationship with Cathay will be interesting to watch. CX has definitely been calling the shots and have profited nicely from AA ceding the market. Parker will be asking for a larger piece of the pie, no doubt, and I don't think it is unreasonable for them to be wanting to operate one LAX-HKG with their own metal.


There is no ATI. Cathay isn't calling any shots. AA has simply not entered the LAXHKG market because it has not seen it viable. It is not illegally colluding with Cathay to not enter the market.
a.
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:26 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 37):
There's still the real estate problem at LAX and I don't think anyone has suggested PHX will be AA's Asian Gateway, save maybe an NRT in the future.

There won't be much of a real estate problem after the MSC is built. Even the first phase will serve AA's purposes quite nicely by freeing up gate space in the adjacent, south concourse of TBIT.
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Posts: 1549
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:12 pm

I'm incredibly skeptical that there will be enough corporate traffic from LAX to Asia to make this work. More flights to Asia might help AA's increase footprint in LAX, but most business to Asia from California is from the SFO catchment area. My guess is that there is mostly VFR traffic between LAX and Asia, and the Asian carriers already have that covered, especially CX and KE, with their lower costs. I just don't see much new opportunity for AA.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:17 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 14):
I think its realization the ORD and DFW are rather useless as Pacific gateways for half of America.

True, although the combination of the two is pretty excellent as Pacific gateways for the other half of the country. It's certainly true that, naturally, trans-Pacific demand tends to be concentrated on the Pacific coast, especially California, and so that's where LAX comes in. But for the rest of the country, ORD and DFW are quite well-situated.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 16):
The United IAD-NRT non-stop is 130 miles shorter yet...with no connection. Easily a 2-hour savings in total trip time.

True, but if you're a WAS-area AA FF - and there are soon going to be lots of them - you'll likely choose connect for your miles, upgrades, lounge access, etc. That trend becomes even more pronounced for those passengers - again, there are many - for whom the trip to IAD adds another 45-60 minutes to their "total trip time." In that case, if the net difference once transit time to IAD is factored in is, say, 1-2 hours, then I suspect there will be plenty of AA-captive or AA-leaning passengers more than happy to fly through ORD instead of nonstop on United.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
It's pretty obvious that this is the way the chips would fall, with UA at SFO, DL at SEA, and AA at LAX. Nonetheless, LAX is the toughest because of its location, it's low fares and % premium traffic, and loads of competition.

   Agree on all counts.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 30):
LAX has always had the bigger market so Scott Kirby lets be honest the only reason why AA is making LAX their Pacific gateway is because it is the only option they have.

True, but of course the reason SEA is Delta's Pacific gateway is because that is their "only option." Everybody, if given their choice, would want SFO, but it's already taken. Certain regions have natural hubs that would always be every airline's "pick" if given the choice - ATL in the southeast, EWR in the northeast, etc. Along the west coast, it's SFO.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 30):
Neither UA nor DL is going to let AA build a Pacific gateway at SFO or SEA

The reality is that SFO is the singular U.S.-Asia megahub gateway of its scale. There is no other market that can ever support that level of service, or that size of hub, from a single airline. Absent SFO - which is obviously well spoken for - the only two other West Coast options are SEA and LAX. The pros and cons of each are well known here - LAX is a dramatically larger market, but also far more competitive and geographically out of the way for many connections.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 30):
and DFW can serve as a backup to a West Coast gateway

DFW is not a "backup" for the west coast, it's irrelevant for the west coast. Price- and/or FF-sensitive customers are often willing to backtrack somewhat to stay on their preferred airline but very, very few passengers will be willing to backtrack that far, particularly when such extensive options already exist from multiple west coast gateways to Asia - including, in many case, on AA FF partner carriers.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 30):
While AA is saying there is a big benefit to making LAX their Pacific gateway I don't think the international carriers will just lay down and allow AA to come in and take over.

Nobody is saying that "international carriers" will, or even need to, "just lay down," nor that AA will "take over." I don't think anybody would take either of these assertions seriously. What I think AA is planning for is to capture a larger, but by no means dominant, share of the massive LAX-Asia market. I don't think that's all that unrealistic, given its already-strong presence in the market. What AA needs to enable such an LAX-Asia expansion to succeed are (1) the right cost structure, (2) the right aircraft, and (3) the right inflight product. AA is rapidly moving on all three fronts.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 30):
AA is going to have a fight on their hands when it come to LAX.

No question about that. I doubt Parker and Kirby are under any allusions otherwise.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 31):
I do admit to be a bit behind the LAX curve, but how does AA plan to go up against UA?

As was already mentioned, I don't really think United is much of an issue. AA today seems to compete just fine with United at LAX, and has the same number of daily flights to East Asia, and to the same cities, as United.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 31):
Isn't DL also trying to build up LAX, or are they not trying to make LAX a TPAC gateway?

Delta is all about SEA - and for good strategic reason.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 44):
There won't be much of a real estate problem after the MSC is built. Even the first phase will serve AA's purposes quite nicely by freeing up gate space in the adjacent, south concourse of TBIT.

  

The TBIT connector cannot come soon enough.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 34):
PHL or perhaps MIA where they can be a dominant asian carrier.

Neither has proven to support a NRT flight, let alone being a Pacific gateway.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:42 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 45):
I'm incredibly skeptical that there will be enough corporate traffic from LAX to Asia to make this work.

Really? Given how massive the LAX-Asia market is, and the deep, longstanding and growing cultural and commercial connections between Southern California and the Pacific Rim, I firmly believe there is enough corporate traffic from LAX to Asia to make this work. I'm more skeptical about AA's ability to sustainably capture this corporate traffic.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 47):
Neither has proven to support a NRT flight, let alone being a Pacific gateway.

Neither has ever had the combination of a merger and the Pacific JV to benefit from.

Personally, I have absolutely no doubt that PHL-NRT is only a matter of time - it makes infinite sense, either with a JAL 787 or reconfigured AA 777, given the big hubs at both ends.
 
oc2dc
Posts: 469
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:38 am

AA: LAX To Become Pacific Gateway (Part 1)

Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:04 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 42):
Here lies the main problem. Most TPAC flights depart/arrive around 2 narrow blocks of time due to time zone issues. Trying to maximize gate utilization by spreading out the flights will lead to some rather awkward and unpopular times.


What is odd about a flight from LAX to TPE that leaves at midnight and arrives at 6am? This would be especially ideal for someone who was connecting from MIA/DFW/LAS/PHX/SAN and countless other flights that arrive later in the evening at LAX.
It would give people the opportunity to finish work, have dinner at home, get on a connecting flight and end up at LAX before their midnight departure from LAX. A late night departure works well for hypothetical flights to AKL, CAN, HKG, TPE, PEK and some others (Not that they will fly to all these locations). If AA gets the 4 gates they have been promised at TBIT, none of these flights will create a facilities problem.
I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos