Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
travelin man
Topic Author
Posts: 3240
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:11 pm

I've been traveling back and forth between LAX and ATL for work lately, and I would like to take this moment to petition UA or AA to start a non-stop LAX-ATL flight.

DL's fares for a mid-week return are extortionate ($1,100 outbound Tuesday, return Thursday, 7 day adv purchase). Yeah, my company is paying, but I don't want them to be screwed over as well.

Last week I caught UA LAX-SFO-ATL for half the price DL wanted (I happened to go on the first day of UA's SFO-ATL non-stop). It was probably 90% full on the evening flight. The Thursday return was completely packed. In addition, I counted at least 20 other people connecting to the SFO-LAX leg from our ATL flight.

DL has had the lock on LAX-ATL for way too long (aside from WN/FL), and I hope someone in Ft. Worth or Chicago is watching the fares and demand on this route. I mean for goodness sakes if both AA and DL can fly LAX-RDU, certainly ATL can be on someone's (besides DL's) radar?

My bet is AA starts it before UA does, but we'll see.
 
UA444
Posts: 3002
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:13 pm

It's absolutely ridiculous neither has at least a 1x daily flight to ATL and for UA not having a mainline LAX-MSP or SFO/LAX-DTW.

UA just restarted SFO-ATL, while cutting mainline ORD-ATL. UA is somewhat strong in MSP but has retreated in DTW. DTW is the largest market not served from SFO on UAL.

[Edited 2014-04-08 14:15:24]
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1883
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:05 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:18 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if AS starts this before UA or AA does. This is the nature of the airline industry going forward. Avoid competition if possible and charge what ever you can everywhere else. It's unfortunate that it is virtually impossible for any start ups to gain any traction.
 
IAHWorldflyer
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:22 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:19 pm

UA is about maxed out on mainline aircraft that could fly this route, plus the buzzword around the Willis Tower is frequency, so they would not want just 1 flight, but several. AA may try to put something on this route, we'll see if Parker wants to take on DL on their hometurf.
It seems to me that competitors are scared of taking on DL at ATL. Even WN pulled their service from MEM to ATL when they folded in Airtran operations.
That said, you could always connect on AA in DFW. It's not really that far out of the way. As Kellner used to say at CO, "nonstops command premium prices".
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4910
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:22 pm

Quoting travelin man (Thread starter):
DL's fares for a mid-week return are extortionate ($1,100 outbound Tuesday, return Thursday, 7 day adv purchase). Yeah, my company is paying, but I don't want them to be screwed over as well.

southwest.com

There is no way southwest is charging anywhere close to that.
 
SouthernDC9
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:41 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:22 pm

But aside from maybe some decent introductory fares, wouldn't UA and/or AA still charge relatively high fares for 7-days-out, mid-week return flights?

Quoting travelin man (Thread starter):
DL has had the lock on LAX-ATL for way too long (aside from WN/FL

What about WN/FL - what are their fares like? Why not fly them?
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18279
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:23 pm

1-800-I-FLY-SWA. And you can too 
I don't take responsibility at all
 
175erj
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:25 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:26 pm

Quoting travelin man (Thread starter):
UA doesn't fly it because no RJ has the range, lol... AA will most likely start this route before UA does.



As it relates to WN/FL...looks like they are down to just one non-stop flight between ATL-LAX flown by FL. The rest are 1 stop with WN.

[Edited 2014-04-08 14:29:15]
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1883
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:05 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:28 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 4):
There is no way southwest is charging anywhere close to that.

Looking for next week Tues depart Thurs return WN is $610 and DL is $748 if looking for the redeye DL is $1100. Seems a bit pricey either way, but then again you can connect in PHX, DFW or SFO for $358.
 
travelin man
Topic Author
Posts: 3240
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:29 pm

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 5):
What about WN/FL - what are their fares like? Why not fly them?
WN/FL non-stop: Leave next Tuesday, Return on Thursday -- $920 (!!!) (whoops -- actually $610 -- I was looking at Business Select).

Sorry, WN/FL are not much better. In any case an assigned seat would be nice.

Yes, the one-stops on AA and UA are about 50% cheaper (which is why I have been taking them), but it seems to me that AA or UA could start 2x/day with minimal issues.

Given my experience on the new UA SFO-ATL flight last week, I think they would be very popular.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 1):
It's absolutely ridiculous neither has at least a 1x daily flight to ATL

Exactly. LA and Atlanta are two huge origins/destinations. To cede that market to DL (and WN) is crazy.

[Edited 2014-04-08 14:30:43]

[Edited 2014-04-08 14:31:32]
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1664
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 9):
Yes, the one-stops on AA and UA are about 50% cheaper (which is why I have been taking them), but it seems to me that AA or UA could start 2x/day with minimal issues.

You think UA or AA will offer those fares if they fly it nonstop? No way. They certainly won't undercut WN.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4910
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 9):
Exactly. LA and Atlanta are two huge origins/destinations. To cede that market to DL (and WN) is crazy.

Tons of cheap one stops in DEN and other low fare cities. I bet you AA launches this eventually. They want LAX to be a bigger part of their network and launch more Asian flights, ATL will provide feed and also help their heavy Frequent flyers with one more destination N/S.
 
travelin man
Topic Author
Posts: 3240
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:41 pm

I do find it interesting that

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 10):
You think UA or AA will offer those fares if they fly it nonstop? No way. They certainly won't undercut WN.

At this point I'd take a $700 or $800 non-stop. (And aside from the lack of an assigned seat, I really should give WN a shot - $610 ain't bad in this market).
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18279
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:43 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 10):
They certainly won't undercut WN.

I think they would and do. WN ain't cheap anymore.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2197
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:53 pm

I know the OP probably wouldn't consider flying them but does anyone think that Frontier could do a less than daily service without incurring the rath of DL. They already run TTN/ILG-DTW, TTN/ILG-ATL, TTN-MSP, and a more threatening CLE-ATL. Perhaps though ATL-LAX would be poking the hibernating bear with a stick one too many times even if it was 3-4X Weekly redeye scheduling.

[Edited 2014-04-08 14:54:45]
 
rwy04lga
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:21 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:56 pm

Quoting travelin man (Thread starter):
DL has had the lock on LAX-ATL

No airline has a lock on any domestic route. They're all free to fly wherever they want as long as they've got the slots/airplanes/cojones/capacity for losing money.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
User avatar
777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:56 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 10):
They certainly won't undercut WN.

I think they would and do. WN ain't cheap anymore.

On many flights (same route) I've seen the fares of UA / DL / AA often match the WN fares. However, if you have to pay for checked luggage, the WN fare comes out cheaper. So, it really comes down to what you feel is the most value for money as you get what you pay for most of the time...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:57 pm

In terms of UA matching or undercutting WN, I suppose it really depends on the market.

Looking at MSY-LAX (which has DL/UA/WN nonstops) for a Tue-Thu trip with 7-day adv purchase...

DL: $746
UA: $746
WN: $682

These are for the nonstops. The flat out cheapest option is AA for $498 but it's a connection.
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1757
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:03 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 7):
As it relates to WN/FL...looks like they are down to just one non-stop flight between ATL-LAX flown by FL. The rest are 1 stop with WN.

WN flies at least 2 nonstops and sometimes 3 with FL flying the red eye.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
AADC10
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:40 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:12 pm

Whenever another airline tries to step into a key DL route, DL responds by flooding the market and implementing predatory pricing. B6 got the DL treatment and fled ATL. UA only has a handful of mainline flights to ATL. Clearly the demand out of LAX (which are marginal hubs for AA & UA) for a non-stop is not strong enough and it is too far for UAX. There are numerous one stops and a FL flight but most people who fly regularly already use DL. That is what a fortress hub is: dominate and raise fares. That is why DL is the most profitable legacy carrier. It has more high fare, low competition routes than AA or UA. The high fare routes are often low volume so they are not appealing to LCCs.

UA is much stronger out of SFO and I believe DL has fewer seats to ATL from there than from LAX. Even then there is no guarantee that UA's SFO-ATL flights will last long.
 
point2point
Posts: 2093
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:47 pm

Maybe with Indigo being F9's new owners, and the new outlook there, they certainly could try a LAX-ATL route. DL hasn't seemed to be responding to the last few F9 adds from ATL - TTN, ILG and CLE.

If not F9, then maybe a route for NK to hop into. They would certainly get a lot of gravy from this route.

But then..... I guess a legacy is needed as well. If I were betting as to which would be first here, I would think that it would be AA. I think that they could handle overflying both PHX and especially DFW here.

Certainly DL being the only legacy here, and then with only WN (aka FL) being the low fare carrier, certainly this route large enough for more than these two carriers, and could use another carrier or even two. And with the fares being what they are....... Even LAX-BNA has three carriers.

 

[Edited 2014-04-08 15:48:14]
 
ROSWELL41
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:50 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:05 am

Cue NK to enter LAX-ATL.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3097
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:10 am

ATL is a Delta fortress and I don't think UA wants to take on DL on the LAX-ATL market especially seeing that SFO is UA's major hub on the West Coast. With UA just adding SFO-ATL I think UA would rather have customers fly from LAX to SFO then to ATL.
 
93Sierra
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:01 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:41 am

Go on US through PHX
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2491
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:00 am

How about taking UA to IAH and then on to ATL? Seems much more direct then going up to SFO.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8402
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:14 am

You need to book farther in advance if possible. The 14-day advanced fare is around $560 r/t. 21-day advanced fare is less than $450 r/t.

Less than a week out fares are going to be high on any route, not just ATL-LAX.

Plus the next 2 weeks are highly affected by school spring breaks and Easter holiday travel, driving up leisure demand.
 
michman
Posts: 901
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:51 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:37 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 25):
You need to book farther in advance if possible. The 14-day advanced fare is around $560 r/t. 21-day advanced fare is less than $450 r/t.

Less than a week out fares are going to be high on any route, not just ATL-LAX.

Agreed. OP's travel seems pretty predictable and I don't really see why he couldn't book 2 weeks out instead of 1. It will make a huge difference. There's really not much complexity to how fares are priced. Booking 2 or 3 weeks out will generally open up much lower fare buckets. Also, a 3 night stay vs. 2 night stay can make a big difference as a number of cheaper fares classes have a 3 night min stay requirement. Finally, I don't think adding another legacy is going to make much of a difference. There are plenty of routes with 2 legacies and they don't seem cheaper than routers with a single legacy. Ultimately, it will likely take a LCC/ULCC to make a dent in prices.
 
klkla
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:51 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:02 am

The same problem you experience with high fares LAX-ATL occurs on other routes with other airllines. LAX-IAH comes to mind. It prices out about the same on United. This situation is in no way exclusive to Delta.
 
YXwatcherMKE
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 3:06 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:13 am

Well I just did a fare check of WN for the n/s flights with a LAX departure on 4/22 return on the 24th, it had a $931.00 base fare r/t for business select which the OP was looking for or something like that since he was talking about business first fares I believe. Yes that is $200 lower than DL but the WN Business Select seating is not really a true Business class environment and it is not cheap! If I want a true Business Class experience then your going to had to transfer somewhere on the trip. My bet is AA via DFW or ORD.
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:07 am

Well back in the 70's and 80's UA flew HSV-LAX and ATL-BHM-LAX, so clearly they just need to get the Alabama market tied into the mix.

http://www.departedflights.com/UA060172.html
 
User avatar
ADent
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:11 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:10 am

Quoting 175erj (Reply 7):
UA doesn't fly it because no RJ has the range, lol.

Why the lol? Seems like a valid reason.

DEN-ATL is two CRJ-700s.
ORD-ATL is six CRJ-700s, and one ERJ-170.
IAD-ATL is one CRJ-700 and three 50 seaters (ERJ45 & CRJ-200)
IAH-ATL is seven 50 seaters.
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2197
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:26 am

Quoting ADent (Reply 30):
Quoting 175erj (Reply 7):
UA doesn't fly it because no RJ has the range, lol.

Why the lol? Seems like a valid reason.

Because there are many people including myself and 175ERJ who think that 4-6 hours in a RJ is ridiculous and in addition UA is known for using RJs on long routes that shouldn't have them.
 
joeman
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:04 am

If air fare cost is the problem, then take a reasonably priced connecting service like most of the the rest of the country without the blessing of an inflated hub operation.
 
travelin man
Topic Author
Posts: 3240
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:12 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 25):
You need to book farther in advance if possible. The 14-day advanced fare is around $560 r/t. 21-day advanced fare is less than $450 r/t.

Unfortunately I don't go every week, and I'm generally only told 7-10 days in advance (and I've booked 10 days out a few weeks ago and it was still $1,100).

Quoting joeman (Reply 32):
If air fare cost is the problem, then take a reasonably priced connecting service like most of the the rest of the country without the blessing of an inflated hub operation.

That's what I've resorted to doing (I went via SFO last week).

I understand that this pricing is not exclusive to LAX-ATL non-stops, but my guess is that ATL is one of LAX's top destinations by O&D (in the top 20 at least?) and to only have two non-stop carriers on the route when all THREE of the majors claim that LAX is at least "kind of" a hub is ridiculous. As someone pointed out above, heck you have 3 airlines flying LAX-BNA non-stop.

Of course, given the decrease in competition with mergers/acquisitions, this pricing is going to be more and more commonplace.
 
User avatar
ua900
Moderator
Posts: 1612
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:14 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:37 am

Quoting 175erj (Reply 7):
UA doesn't fly it because no RJ has the range, lol...

CRJ7 with added fuel tanks, they'd do it if they could. After all, it's ExPlus  
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 19):
UA is much stronger out of SFO and I believe DL has fewer seats to ATL from there than from LAX. Even then there is no guarantee that UA's SFO-ATL flights will last long.

Indeed, even that route seems to be struggling for UA since there isn't enough demand from the ATL side on UA.

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 24):
How about taking UA to IAH and then on to ATL? Seems much more direct then going up to SFO.

That seems the most logical thing to do for UA. Albeit with a CRJ7 or an E75 doing the IAH-ATL leg until you have more demand on the ATL side.
2020: AMS | ATL | BRU | DAL | DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | GUA | IAH | LAX | LIM | MCO | MUC | ORD | PTY | SAL | SCL | SFO | TPA | TXL
 
tyler81190
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:28 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:53 am

Quoting Ua900 (Reply 34):
CRJ7 with added fuel tanks, they'd do it if they could. After all, it's ExPlus  

Slightly off topic, but what is UA's longest schedules "regional" flight?

I know PIT-DEN is up there and MCI-SFO at 4 hours is as well. Maybe ICT-LAX?

By the way to the OP, UA via ICT might be an option with a change of carrier UA to DL  
 
rwy04lga
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:21 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:49 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 19):
That is why DL is the most profitable legacy carrier

Most profitable of ANY carrier, legacy or otherwise.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3683
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:13 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 36):

Lol you gate agents have nothing else to go on...it's so funny.

I'm meeting with a bunch of your execs tomorrow and they are never as bullish as you are. Now WHY is that??

Is it because they don't preach about profits or whatever it is you are always going off about? Probably

Enjoy  
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
UGA777
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 3:40 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:31 pm

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Virgin America will come to Atlanta in the next few years. That would bring some ATL-LAX flights for sure.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5188
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:04 pm

I've found that at times, various airlines don't want to take on another airline at its largest hub. Both AA and UA have been reluctant to take on DL between ORD and ATL. In the late 90s, AA and UA had 6 to 8 weekday roundtrips. AA flew MD-80s and F100s. UA flew nothing larger than a 757. Meanwhile, DL was flying hourly from 6am to 8pm or 9pm. The aircraft were 757s, 767s, and L-1011s.

No one wants to take on AA between ORD and DFW. AA managed to run DL off the route in the 90s, and UA never had anything close to the schedule that AA has offered since the mid 1990s (anywhere from 16 to 21 weekday roundtrips).

AA has been willing to take on DL between ATL and DFW. I seem to recall that if DL added a flight, AA matched it.

I seem to recall that in the early 2000s, B6 started ATL-LGB. DL responded with more flights between ATL and LAX, putting widebodies on the route (including a 77s, IIRC), moving LAX departures to Concourse T at ATL, and lowering fares. B6 eventually dropped the route, because of the red ink.

With Parker indicating that LAX will become AA's main gateway to the Pacific, I could see AA starting LAX-ATL, timed with flights to and from the Pacific.
 
User avatar
lugie
Posts: 908
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:11 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:08 pm

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 31):

Because there are many people including myself and 175ERJ who think that 4-6 hours in a RJ is ridiculous and in addition UA is known for using RJs on long routes that shouldn't have them.

I get your point if you're talking about E145s or CRJs but I certainly do not understand the hate when concerning E-jets, I find them to be more comfortable than A32x or B73x.
Q400 E175 E190 CRJ7 CRJ9 CRJX MD88 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A359 B733 B73G B738 B739 B748 B764 B772 B77W B788 B789
FRA STR HAM TXL MUC ZRH ACE BRU BLL DUB MAN ARN MAD OPO LIS FNC AMS PHL RDU LGA CLT EWR ORD ATL SFO MDW IAD YYZ SJO PTY
 
thegoldenargosy
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:14 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:17 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 35):
Slightly off topic, but what is UA's longest schedules "regional" flight?

IAH-YUL
 
ScottB
Posts: 7191
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:44 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 33):
but my guess is that ATL is one of LAX's top destinations by O&D (in the top 20 at least?) and to only have two non-stop carriers on the route when all THREE of the majors claim that LAX is at least "kind of" a hub is ridiculous. As someone pointed out above, heck you have 3 airlines flying LAX-BNA non-stop.

11th, actually, for airport-to-airport, and one spot lower if one combines the multiple-airport markets of FLL+MIA. The issue in ATL-LAX is that there is a single carrier which completely dominates in schedule and frequent flyer loyalty, along with a second lower-cost competitor. It would be incredibly difficult for AA or UA to profitably serve LAX-ATL given that virtually all the premium traffic would continue to choose DL due to schedule & loyalty program; they'd be forced to compete on price with WN which would still offer a better schedule and the marketing advantage of no bag fees.

BNA-LAX is different in that no carrier enjoys the same level of dominance as DL between LAX & ATL, and entertainment industry contracts help to bolster traffic, especially up-front for the legacies.

Quoting travelin man (Reply 12):
At this point I'd take a $700 or $800 non-stop. (And aside from the lack of an assigned seat, I really should give WN a shot - $610 ain't bad in this market).

Assigned seats aren't always a blessing. I've been on plenty of flights where a late booking meant a middle seat in Row 33. If you set a reminder to check in 24 hours before departure, you can still get a decent boarding number without having to pay a fee.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3634
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:20 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 36):
Most profitable of ANY carrier, legacy or otherwise.

In total profit, but not even close by margin which honestly is the most important metric. Pretty sure NK or G4 wins in that department.

Spirit 17.04% operating margin; 10.69% net margin
Delta 9.00% operating margin; 6.68% net margin (excluding the 1 time tax restatement)
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:32 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 43):
In total profit, but not even close by margin which honestly is the most important metric. Pretty sure NK or G4 wins in that department.

Spirit 17.04% operating margin; 10.69% net margin
Delta 9.00% operating margin; 6.68% net margin (excluding the 1 time tax restatement)

It might be the most important metric if you were comparing apples to apples, but you aren't. It's more like apples to peach pits. NK or G4 don't have nearly the same kind or amount of expenses that DL does.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3634
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:35 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 44):
It might be the most important metric if you were comparing apples to apples, but you aren't. It's more like apples to peach pits. NK or G4 don't have nearly the same kind or amount of expenses that DL does.

He said ANY carrier...
 
travelin man
Topic Author
Posts: 3240
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:54 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 42):
It would be incredibly difficult for AA or UA to profitably serve LAX-ATL given that virtually all the premium traffic would continue to choose DL due to schedule & loyalty program;

AA and UA have pretty large loyalty amongst Southern California travelers, plus some good entertainment contracts to help fill up the front end of the plane (ATL is becoming a fairly large entertainment hub).

I do think AA doesn't want to antagonize DL at this point by starting LAX-ATL (as I think DL will very quickly start LAX-DFW in response).

I'll be interested to see which route gets started first: DL LAX-DFW/ORD or AA LAX-ATL. Whichever happens first, will likely cause a very quick response.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7191
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:00 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 46):
AA and UA have pretty large loyalty amongst Southern California travelers, plus some good entertainment contracts to help fill up the front end of the plane (ATL is becoming a fairly large entertainment hub).

Passengers who are strongly loyal to AA & UA (or at least, the ones who would be loyal enough to suffer a once-daily service instead of DL's ten daily frequencies) are likely already on AA & UA planes via SFO/DEN/IAH/DFW/ORD/PHX. So there's likely not a lot of traffic to be gained from those customers. And the entertainment industry contract traffic between LAX & ATL would probably stay on DL due to frequency and widebodies.
 
rwy04lga
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:21 am

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:14 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 37):
Lol you gate agents have nothing else to go on...it's so funny.

I'm not a gate agent

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 45):
He said ANY carrier...

I also said PROFITS, not MARGINS.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: Dear UA Or AA: Please Start LAX-ATL

Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:28 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 37):
Lol you gate agents have nothing else to go on...it's so funny.

I'm meeting with a bunch of your execs tomorrow and they are never as bullish as you are. Now WHY is that??

Is it because they don't preach about profits or whatever it is you are always going off about? Probably

I don't think the frontline employees are as out of the loop as you assume they are.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos